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Just remember the mnemonic: OS AS COMP.
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Jun 17, 2020 11:39
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Sininu posted:Fuuuck. I'm not a native speaker and now I'm concerned about how often I mess the adjective order up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50OXJ5AT3ms&t=8s
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Jun 17, 2020 11:55
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this is a fake rule because some dude got his panties in a bunch that English was Germanic and not Latin.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:10
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Sininu posted:Fuuuck. I'm not a native speaker and now I'm concerned about how often I mess the adjective order up. I never knew about this and it seems like a nightmare to learn if it doesn't come naturally. Don't worry too much about it. The worst that will happen is that it will "sound weird" to a native speaker, but most will not have any idea why just that it does.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:45
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Tashilicious posted:this is a fake rule because some dude got his panties in a bunch that English was Germanic and not Latin. is this a video complaining that "to boldly go" isn't correct english?
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Jun 17, 2020 13:55
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:is this a video complaining that "to boldly go" isn't correct english? no it's a scene from SG-1 where O'Neill goes "You ended that sentence with a preposition, bastard!" as a nose thumb to a first prime. and also language's only real rule is that you get understood.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:04
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mobby_6kl posted:Yeah the adjective order thing is weird but it's something you can pick up from just reading stuff. Messing up the order then immediately feels wrong even if you can't quote the rule. That's the point - if English is your native language, it will "feel" wrong even if you don't know why. If you're just learning English you will sound weird to native English speakers and have no idea anything is wrong in the first place.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:16
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Antigravitas posted:Adjective order is one of the worst things, speaking as a non-native English speaker. Hey, at least it's always before the noun, unlike in French where it's mostly after, sometimes before, and it MATTERS.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:22
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Do other languages have similar rules for multiple adjectives? Searching for "$language adjective order" mostly just turns up results about whether the adjectives go before or after nouns.
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Jun 17, 2020 16:34
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:That's the point - if English is your native language, it will "feel" wrong even if you don't know why. If you're just learning English you will sound weird to native English speakers and have no idea anything is wrong in the first place. I know, I was saying this as an ESL. You just pick it up subconsciously. For a total beginner though, yeah it could be a (small) problem.
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Jun 17, 2020 17:22
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"big bad wolf" breaks adjective order (size before opinion) but feels more grammatical than "bad big wolf" - the actual details of what adjective order feels right are more sound-based than definition
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Jun 17, 2020 17:23
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that's because Bad Wolf is the name of the character
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Jun 17, 2020 17:25
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:that's because Bad Wolf is the name of the character Bad Wolf was originally Baadwulf
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Jun 17, 2020 17:26
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Hey, at least it's always before the noun, unlike in French where it's mostly after, sometimes before, and it MATTERS. I have suppressed most of my French, but one thing that still infuriates me is that both German and French are gendered languages that often assign different genders to the same thing. Der Mond (m) - La Lune (f). 
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Jun 17, 2020 17:29
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Antigravitas posted:I have suppressed most of my French, but one thing that still infuriates me is that both German and French are gendered languages that often assign different genders to the same thing. Der Mond (m) - La Lune (f). if you think long and hard you'll see that the french genders make perfect sense, and the german genders are dumb as hell
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Jun 17, 2020 17:31
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Mister Olympus posted:"big bad wolf" breaks adjective order (size before opinion) but feels more grammatical than "bad big wolf" - the actual details of what adjective order feels right are more sound-based than definition That's an example of ablaut reduplication. Five English Grammar Rules You Never Knew You Knew gives it as an example.
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Jun 17, 2020 17:32
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Antigravitas posted:I have suppressed most of my French, but one thing that still infuriates me is that both German and French are gendered languages that often assign different genders to the same thing. Der Mond (m) - La Lune (f). חה חה חה, I laugh at you in Hebrew, another gendered language which is also inconsistent with both of those.
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Jun 17, 2020 17:35
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ultrafilter posted:That's an example of ablaut reduplication. Five English Grammar Rules You Never Knew You Knew gives it as an example. I'm going to use "Julias Children" as the plural of julia child regardless, thank you
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Jun 17, 2020 17:47
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What's the plural form of man-child?
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Jun 17, 2020 17:54
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ynohtna posted:What's the plural form of man-child? GBS
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Jun 17, 2020 17:59
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Antigravitas posted:I have suppressed most of my French, but one thing that still infuriates me is that both German and French are gendered languages that often assign different genders to the same thing. Der Mond (m) - La Lune (f). 
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Jun 17, 2020 18:10
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I know, but that does not make it easier to learn. gently caress gender, it's useless.
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Jun 17, 2020 18:13
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I'm learning French and I promise you the wrong gender actually sounds correct about 90% of the time I have to say it out loud to remember.
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Jun 17, 2020 18:18
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Deformed Church posted:I'm learning French and I promise you the wrong gender actually sounds correct about 90% of the time I have to say it out loud to remember. You wouldn't feel that way if you knew the way it's spostda sound 
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Jun 17, 2020 18:41
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Paladinus posted:Just remember the mnemonic: OS AS COMP. And you can keep that in mind with the sentence: Opinion, Size, Age, Shape, Color, Origin, Material, Purpose!
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Jun 17, 2020 19:31
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powerful big old round green space energy ascension orb
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Jun 17, 2020 19:55
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Tashilicious posted:no it's a scene from SG-1 where O'Neill goes "You ended that sentence with a preposition, bastard!" as a nose thumb to a first prime. Prepositions are perfectly good words to end a sentence with.
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Jun 17, 2020 20:06
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Mikl posted:Prepositions are perfectly cromulent Ftfy.
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Jun 17, 2020 20:22
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I've replaced ending sentences with prepositions by getting them up out the way and using two in a row.
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Jun 17, 2020 20:25
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Mikl posted:Prepositions are perfectly good words to end a sentence with. It's always funny when people do the whole "you ended a sentence with a preposition!" thing because I'm pretty sure there is no native english speaker that has ever NOT done that. The contortions you would have to do with some sentences sound so much less natural.
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Jun 17, 2020 20:42
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ultrafilter posted:That's an example of ablaut reduplication. Five English Grammar Rules You Never Knew You Knew gives it as an example. Yeah, which is why I can't help but to say slip-slap-slop, but I get angry that it's actually slip-slop-slap.
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Jun 17, 2020 20:54
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Unlike the adjective order rule which comes from linguists observing what people actually say, the rule against ending a sentence with a preposition comes from some random guy writing his dumb sentence opinions into a grammar book.
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Jun 17, 2020 20:55
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:is this a video complaining that "to boldly go" isn't correct english? It’s called “anastrophe” and it’s classy. ultrafilter posted:That's an example of ablaut reduplication. Five English Grammar Rules You Never Knew You Knew gives it as an example. quote:After all, every second that the hand on your clock moves, it is making the same noise, and yet we say tick-tock, never tock-tick or tick-tick. It may be the same sound on a quartz clock, but on a mechanical clock, it really does sound different as pallets of the escapement alternately engage. 
Platystemon has a new favorite as of 22:30 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 22:27
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90s Cringe Rock posted:powerful big old round green space energy ascension orb Scarodactyl has a new favorite as of 22:52 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 22:49
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:if you think long and hard you'll see that the french genders make perfect sense, and the german genders are dumb as hell In German, "girl" is not a feminine noun. Anyone who could look at that and not scrap the concept of gendered nouns from the language altogether has clearly long since gone insane.
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Jun 17, 2020 23:21
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“Girl” was, in English, centuries ago, applicable to young children of either gender. Male children were “knave girls”. Female children were “gay girls”.
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Jun 17, 2020 23:25
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AnoHito posted:In German, "girl" is not a feminine noun. Anyone who could look at that and not scrap the concept of gendered nouns from the language altogether has clearly long since gone insane. The thing that's most confusing about it is that for every single noun, someone had to decide what gender it was. Like some french person at some point had to say "yes, tables are women, obviously".
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Jun 17, 2020 23:25
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ultrafilter posted:Do other languages have similar rules for multiple adjectives? Searching for "$language adjective order" mostly just turns up results about whether the adjectives go before or after nouns. I believe Greek has it but I don't remember off the top of my head if and when we ever learned it formally or just instinct. And I recall learning about order of stuff for German, but that was ZAO, Zeit, Art, Ort (time, means, place) for things like "I will go tomorrow by bus to work" or something, rather than adjectives themselves.
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Jun 17, 2020 23:30
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Grammatical genders aren't genders, they're misnamed
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Jun 18, 2020 00:08
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AnoHito posted:In German, "girl" is not a feminine noun. Anyone who could look at that and not scrap the concept of gendered nouns from the language altogether has clearly long since gone insane. But obviously the windows is feminine and door is masculine and cat is she and dog is he and... Having the first language in a moon language is sometimes a boon, because there are no gendered or definite articles and it baffles me why these languages make themselves obtuse by design.
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Jun 18, 2020 00:25
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