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Patrick's Parabox demo is decent. It manages to clear the threshold of being fun in spite of being Sokoban, but it's certainly not on the level of Baba is You or even A Good Snowman Is Hard To Build. Am I missing something, or does Shipbreaker really not have multiplayer on its roadmap? Seems like a huge missed opportunity if not, and I'm saying that as someone who almost never plays multiplayer games.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:12
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NRVNQSR posted:Patrick's Parabox demo is decent. It manages to clear the threshold of being fun in spite of being Sokoban, but it's certainly not on the level of Baba is You or even A Good Snowman Is Hard To Build. I'm sad too but not really surprised. Accurately this much Physics Bullshit® between multiplayer clients would be a horrible nightmare to code unless planned-for from the very beginning, I'm guessing; in turn I'm guessing that if multiplayer's not already on the roadmap it's not going to be either 
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Jun 17, 2020 13:17
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I can’t handle demo-fest, there’s too much poo poo going on and I can’t keep up.  Wake me next week when the summer sale hits.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:21
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I'm super happy that there's 500 demos running around, and a twitch.io backlog to last a literal lifetime. The real crime here is that all those steam demos are poorly optimized, which normally isn't a problem but when running them through Proton I can get like 2 of them working, rip.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:36
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I am 32 hours into Persona 4. It has been out for 90 hours.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:38
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NRVNQSR posted:Patrick's Parabox demo is decent. It manages to clear the threshold of being fun in spite of being Sokoban, but it's certainly not on the level of Baba is You or even A Good Snowman Is Hard To Build. The same people who made A Good Snowman is Hard To Build have just released a demo for A Monster's Expedition: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1052990/A_Monsters_Expedition/
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Jun 17, 2020 13:45
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No Wave posted:I am 32 hours into Persona 4. It has been out for 90 hours. That's a lot. I've slowed right down after putting in 7 hours the first day. Great game but i can't play too much in one sitting
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Jun 17, 2020 13:46
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Without a time limit Shipbreaker loses both story and gameplay balance teeth. But it's going to quickly do a Cryptark and build in options for it anyway because people are absolutely allergic to time limits. For anyone on the fence who isn't absolutely allergic (i.e. you are skeptical of time limits instead of having an anxiety disorder) you can come back to the same ship as long as you don't quit the game and just generally chopping it will keep the lights on but probably not make a lot of progress on your rank ups or skill points. After the initial onboarding this is probably something you play for 15 minutes to an hour anyway so the timeboxing of having to checkout every 15 minutes doesn't feel especially egregious.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:52
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zedprime posted:Without a time limit Shipbreaker loses both story and gameplay balance teeth. But it's going to quickly do a Cryptark and build in options for it anyway because people are absolutely allergic to time limits.  I've started taking two days on class 3 ships. On the first, I focus on cut points and barge salvage. The second day is for all that sweet sweet nanocarbon.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:55
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Time limits and not having times limits are not a mutually exclusive concept. You can have difficulty options that use either.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:06
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The 7th Guest posted:Inmost is pretty rad, it's on Apple Arcade if you have that subscription (I wouldn't subscribe specifically for one game, of course). Yeah, I know Inmost came out on AA a while back, but like a lot of games for that service, I’d rather wait to play it on PC
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Jun 17, 2020 14:12
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Largepotato posted:Time limits and not having times limits are not a mutually exclusive concept. You can have difficulty options that use either. Yes, but the problem is that people will reflexively turn off the time limit and make the game miserable for themselves. Right now it's the only thing keeping you focused so you do all of the interesting/profitable parts and get out instead of wasting all your time stripping the parts of the ship that really aren't worth it. Which there are some things they could do to alleviate that without removing the timer..I think more transparency on value would help, IE a running count of your current salvage v. the remaining value of the ship, maybe some way to get an idea of what the most valuable sections are etc.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:18
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Serephina posted:The real crime here is that all those steam demos are poorly optimized, which normally isn't a problem but when running them through Proton I can get like 2 of them working, rip. Which ones? Haven't really looked at those demos yet, my backlog is overfull and I had a cave in in wurm online that I had to fix 
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Jun 17, 2020 14:19
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Fat Samurai posted:The time limit thing looks like something modders will remove in a week, to be honest. Three of the current top threads on Steam forums are complaining about this. They're already doing this with Cheat Engine et al, FYI. The timer seems like it benefits the game generally, but it's single player so go hog wild I geuss if this is a dealbreaker. There's a thread with the info on the Steam forums. NObodyNOWHERE fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 14:20
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fez_machine posted:The same people who made A Good Snowman is Hard To Build have just released a demo for A Monster's Expedition: Thanks, I'd missed this one! Cosmic Express was a bit disappointing but I'm definitely willing to give them another chance. edit: Seems very good, an easy recommend. NRVNQSR fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 14:25
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Largepotato posted:Time limits and not having times limits are not a mutually exclusive concept. You can have difficulty options that use either. Shipbreakers has room for some dificulty modifiers without ruining the story and gameplay so I'm not going to argue the point that it needs the time limits absolutely, but it benefits the game and I encourage playing with it when you have the option.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:33
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explosivo posted:EarthBreakers feels like absolute dogshit. Still going to observe this one because I want to believe in the RTS/FPS hybrid and loved Renegade but eugh this is rough. Real rough. I would love a new Renegade-style FPS, but there's a lot strange design decisions in this one. The class system, the player movement, the economy, the weapons... there's a lot that needs work. Hopefully the developers get the time. Mothmansplainer fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 14:37
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wasn’t there a whole article interviewing the xcom 2 guy which coined the phrase “gamers will optimize all the fun out of a game” when discussing how they added time limits in 2 because they wanted to encourage players not to spend 3 hours moving a single soldier at a time overwatch creeping through a mission
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Jun 17, 2020 14:38
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If you remove the time limits on Shipbreakers you don't need to upgrade tools or anything. The point of the time limit is to focus your attention on getting the most expensive parts of the ship quickly in one or two work shifts increasing the risk that something goes wrong and you die or the ship explodes. Without the time limits you have the free mode already available, you just dismantle everything without risk because you don't need to take risks. The time limit seems a constraint but that is only at the beginning. The time limit forces you to try things while learning how to dismantle certain parts of the ships. Once you find an effective way it turns automatic and what you did in 10 minutes in the first ship you do it in 3 on your third ship of the same class.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:53
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Zeron posted:Which there are some things they could do to alleviate that without removing the timer..I think more transparency on value would help, IE a running count of your current salvage v. the remaining value of the ship, maybe some way to get an idea of what the most valuable sections are etc. Seeing the value go down when you make a cut wrong or whatever could be rough, though.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:53
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Cowcaster posted:wasn’t there a whole article interviewing the xcom 2 guy which coined the phrase “gamers will optimize all the fun out of a game” when discussing how they added time limits in 2 because they wanted to encourage players not to spend 3 hours moving a single soldier at a time overwatch creeping through a mission I'm definitely guilty of this in a game like xcom where the consequences for failure can very major XCOM 2 was great since it put some limitations to turtling
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Jun 17, 2020 14:56
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I think the time limit in hardspace should be based on an efficiency bonus and tied to the work order (if the developer doesn't want us beating the game too quickly). You should be given bonus points (or extra cost if you have rentals) if you exceed the time limit. I want to get super efficient with taking the ships apart but when you enter a new ship class sometimes it can be extremely daunting. I still don't know my way around the gecko and have caused numerous explosions around the thruster array. I think to salvage the ECU you have to pull apart the panel and remove and pick up (is this right??) the coolant containers inside. Once all the coolant is gone you can safely interact with it. The problem is its rigged up to a coolant pipe and if you cut the pipe you may not experience anything in the cabin with the ECU but it triggers a chain reaction of cold explosions all along the pipeline to the reactor which could then set off fuel and blow up the thrusters behind it. To actually pull the ECU out you need to cut through a myriad of cutting points to remove structural reinforcements + outer panels. Then you have to cut into the main passenger compartment which is like a 4x4x2 grid of aluminium panels with tons of electronics and other devices that need to be stripped and thrown onto the barge. I'm not sure if the entire point of the game is to just ditch these fixtures unless a work order asks for it or not but it's annoying to not be able to sequentially take all this apart. Having said that does anyone know how to take apart aluminum panel grids efficiently? It can take an insane amount of time to separate panels if you use the stinger to melt the thin metal reinforcements the panels rest on. I suppose this is where you use the twin-saw to chop it up into polygonal bits and throw em in the furnace. See 15 minutes is a weird time limit because your oxygen with further upgrades will probably last you the shift. I mean the game even lets you find cylinders attached to the walls (especially in bigger ships) that will replenish it to max without making the trip back. Why offer all this courtesy if you'll just time out before coming back? Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 15:01
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There are a lot more ways to create pressure and tension as plain timers. Timers (as in displayed clocks) are very lazy, almost trope-like game design. Sometimes they're totally okay and just work depending on the context but sometimes - and I would include Shipbreakers there - they're just a quick and dirty way to create tension without a good gameplay concept behind it. I hope the EA phase lets Blackbird come up with some good ideas how to make timed missions a bit better as they are currently.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:19
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Even without the timer you're going to be forced back to the hab eventually to fix your equipment durability.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:23
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Cowcaster posted:wasn’t there a whole article interviewing the xcom 2 guy which coined the phrase “gamers will optimize all the fun out of a game” when discussing how they added time limits in 2 because they wanted to encourage players not to spend 3 hours moving a single soldier at a time overwatch creeping through a mission Now before anyone points it out yeah early DIII was so super grindy and insane that anything to make it quicker was welcome but stuff like that was still nuts.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:27
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It's an interesting parallel to a problem I saw a video on recently which basically boiled down to "Gamers are almost never wrong about something being bad, but they are almost always wrong about why it is." Not everyone is gonna sit there and optimize the game to death but some people are and they're gonna get insanely mad when it comes time to fix that problem. Not that that's necessarily what anyone wants here with the Shipbreaker timer thing. I think ultimately they should just make Campaign and Free Mode in Shipbreaker the exact same thing; full progression, story beats, the full experience in both modes but one simply has the timer and the other doesn't. Orv fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 15:33
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Oxygen upgrades are more about tolerance. You need to physically be at the cylinder or the vending machine to re-up and at one upgrade, you need to hit it pretty bang on 7:30 to get your money's worth. You then need to balance your time in the crawlspaces cutting fasteners with being where the oxygen is and if you get a couple minutes leeway before or after the midpoint your workflow is massively improved. I wouldn't say I like the Shipbreakers time limit for tension as much as story theme. At the end of the day the gameplay impact for me is it's just a stopwatch to see how quickly I am progressing from "oh God how I remove hull piece?" To deftly chunking it and ripping out the fragile valuable bits. Orv posted:I think ultimately they should just make Campaign and Free Mode in Shipbreaker the exact same thing; full progression, story beats, the full experience in both modes but one simply has the timer and the other doesn't. zedprime fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 15:34
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Always gotta trick people into playing the game the "fun" way. Look at consummables, devs try everything to get people to stop hoarding and just use them.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:48
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I'm guilty of the consumable thing. 'sure I could use this low level health potion while fighting the boss but I might need it for the NEXT boss. This guy could also have a second form'
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Jun 17, 2020 15:50
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Fruits of the sea posted:Always gotta trick people into playing the game the "fun" way. It took me twenty something years but I did finally get over that. 
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Jun 17, 2020 15:50
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If they wanted me to use that healing potion they shouldn’t have put a fight after the fight I should have used it in 
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Jun 17, 2020 15:53
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Orv posted:It took me twenty something years but I did finally get over that. Me, during final boss fight: ...but what if I need this great chakra in new game plus?? Also me: *ignores having already beaten the rest of the game without it
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Jun 17, 2020 15:54
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Fruits of the sea posted:Always gotta trick people into playing the game the "fun" way. Literally never going to bother using a consumable that gives me +0.3% to Strength for 7 seconds. Witcher did it right
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Jun 17, 2020 15:58
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I don't mind the time limit at all, but I feel like an alternate mode you could make for something like this has you buying ships to salvage instead of being given them. You could even bid on them like a storage unit auction.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:59
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Perhaps all of your item hoarding was just training for the hard mode of a Shin Megami Tensei game. Persona 4 on hard is pretty frickin hard, at least early on. Mainly because you don't have items to hoard
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Jun 17, 2020 16:00
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Antigravitas posted:Which ones? Haven't really looked at those demos yet, my backlog is overfull and I had a cave in in wurm online that I had to fix EVERSPACE 2 works buttery smooth when turning things (inc resolution) down; also I could get HellBound working, but only by turning the screen scaling down to like 30% and making it fugly. There's dozens of demos there but the handful of others I was interested in I couldn't get into a workable frame rate, and not just for pretty titles but a lot of 2d stuff too =/
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Jun 17, 2020 16:00
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Perhaps all of your item hoarding was just training for the hard mode of a Shin Megami Tensei game. Persona 4 on hard is pretty frickin hard, at least early on. Mainly because you don't have items to hoard i mean, that's exactly where it's from EXCEPT the problem is I still made it to Lucifer the final boss of Nocturne on hard mode with like 99x beads in my inventory so, y'know
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Jun 17, 2020 16:02
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haldolium posted:There are a lot more ways to create pressure and tension as plain timers. Timers (as in displayed clocks) are very lazy, almost trope-like game design. Sometimes they're totally okay and just work depending on the context but sometimes - and I would include Shipbreakers there - they're just a quick and dirty way to create tension without a good gameplay concept behind it. i thought the the good gameplay concept behind it is you're a poor shmuck working a lovely dead end job to pay down an insurmountable debt and you've got quotas to meet and deadlines to stick to
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Jun 17, 2020 16:22
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Exactly. And as mentioned, the time limit does two things: promotes efficiency, and leads you to just start hacking things apart near the end to process what you can. My runs tend to be the first part carefully disconnecting things and disassembling the cut points til I expose useful stuff, then carefully removing expensive items like reactors and thrusters and the other big modules, and then a middle section where I peel away the outer hull areas to the processor and cut through a floor and throw out the like 40 chairs and inflight TVs the passenger geckos have, and then after a while it's more like "gently caress it" and I just circle the ship repeatedly splitsawing the aluminum internals into big chunks and just tethering them into the furnace with the rest of the chairs and computer stuff I couldn't be bothered processing. I think the time limit keeps you honest, as mentioned. The big ticket items have such a payoff that you don't really have to do too much to come out ahead, and the rest is just how quickly can you throw chairs out a window. Also like real life recycling a lot of things aren't worth the time and money to reprocess once you've gleaned the easy 80%. For context, I've gotten mackerel runs down to a science, first run is 2mil second is 1.5 and then if I decide to go back you can maybe scrape a little over a half mil since the last bit of dissassembly is time consuming. Geckos seem to be about 500k for the first run and 4-5 million for the second and then diminishing returns further. I haven't figured out the ideal pattern for those yet, the first run is a lot of disconnecting hull plates and prying things loose so you have room to work. Also airlocks are my bane, they're a pain to cut through efficiently and tend to hold big sections of hull in place. threelemmings fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 16:37
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Anyone tried Summer in Mara's release version? It good?
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