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I always forget how heartwarming Futaba's Rank 10 scene is and then I get to it again: Futaba: You gave me something I couldn't get anywhere... Joker: ? Futaba: You gave me my life back. That scene alone put Hermit in my top 3 links for P5.
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Jun 19, 2020 21:20
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ApplesandOranges posted:I always forget how heartwarming Futaba's Rank 10 scene is and then I get to it again:  that scene is.
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Jun 19, 2020 21:32
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Junpei posted:y'all are getting way too angry and heated over games about high schoolers punching people's brains Turn your brain off and consume, a message worthy of Persona (3-5) indeed
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Jun 19, 2020 21:47
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Sakurazuka posted:Turn your brain off and consume, a message worthy of Persona (3-5) indeed The SMT thread having people post like they're the LAW hero is at least on brand. Motto posted:Persona 5 is a game that ends with you solving your problems by shooting Bad Vibes in the head Sadly the bad vibes continue after that.... Maybe the real bad vibes is society ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 22:41
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Cleretic posted:But Chie is absolutely going to get filmed brutalizing someone for spurious reasons. And then the townspeople of Inaba would tell stories about how officer Satonaka constantly lost her temper and hurt that poor Hanamura boy back in high school. Or how she pushed Hanamura and his best friend down a cliff and into a river. Or how she threw wooden buckets at Hanamura and his friends over a scheduling mistake in the open air bath: a mistake that she and her friends made in the first place. PMush Perfect posted:Why don't we all talk about our first "big" fusion projects that we're proud of? I used that Mediarama + Samarecarm Power as part of a long chain, and I've now got a Neko Shogun with Invigorate 2, Diarama, Resist Wind, Re Patra (via card), and Samarecarm, as well as the usual stuff. It's not a huge deal, but I did it without a guide, and I'm very proud of myself. In P3P, I once fused an Arahabaki that absorbed/reflected/null'd all elements, physicals and status ailments thanks to skill inheritance, learned skills and Arahabaki's own resistances. Sure, that meant I was stuck with just regular attacks and that it was absolutely useless to fighting the Reaper and Elizabeth, but it was still worth it. In Nocturne, I started a fusion chain that passed down Fire Boost, Wind Cutter and Tornado to Jinn, which learned Force Boost. It then evolved into Efreet and learned Agidyne and Prominence.
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Jun 19, 2020 22:47
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Don't forget that time she and her best friend actively tried to poison their male friends. I thought that was one of the more legitimately funny moments in the game, though. Poor Yu just passing out from their evil concoction. I remember when I played P4 some people complained about the gag violence. "Why are Yosuke and Chie even friends? She could have seriously hurt him with that blow to his testicles!" Some people are such buzzkills.
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Jun 20, 2020 06:59
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Rise is so broken in P4. It's like having a fifth character, one you don't have to heal. If I ever play through this again she's getting her link maxed first for sure.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 07:11
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Her bike dates also make her really good too, I'd say she's either first or second priority for those, after Yukiko (Mind Charge).
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Jun 20, 2020 07:52
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NikkolasKing posted:Don't forget that time she and her best friend actively tried to poison their male friends. Mystery Food X is probably one of the most consistently fun running gags in a Persona game. They keep finding new ways to make horrible food, it's great. And clearly, Yosuke and Chie are friends because nobody else will take him. Have you talked to him?
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Jun 20, 2020 08:43
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Mystery Food X is an alright gag but then they just run it into the ground and not stop in the spin offs. Persona 4 has a serious problem with flanderization. P3 too but eh, it’s been milked a bit less.
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Jun 20, 2020 08:57
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P4tA handled Mystery Food X and Hanako well in the exact same episode.  Electric Phantasm posted:Can't remember the context, but I'm 90% sure Yosuke deserved that kick in the balls. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 08:59
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Can't remember the context, but I'm 90% sure Yosuke deserved that kick in the balls.
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Jun 20, 2020 09:02
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I think P4 suffers due to it being a reflection of the time it was made. Maybe I’m being dumb, but during the 00’s, social issues weren’t really in the spotlight so stuff like Chie kicking Yosuke in the balls for breaking a DVD and the way that the game approaches homosexuality wasn’t something that audiences were as clued into. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be critical or analyse these things, but this game is nearly 12 years old so that and my nostalgia of it has me being not as harsh on the messages it gives out. Persona 5 doesn’t really have that excuse and the gay predators in the original is really off colour and out of touch.
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Jun 20, 2020 09:17
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jimmydalad posted:I think P4 suffers due to it being a reflection of the time it was made. Maybe I’m being dumb, but during the 00’s, social issues weren’t really in the spotlight so stuff like Chie kicking Yosuke in the balls for breaking a DVD and the way that the game approaches homosexuality wasn’t something that audiences were as clued into. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be critical or analyse these things, but this game is nearly 12 years old so that and my nostalgia of it has me being not as harsh on the messages it gives out. See, these are entirely separate issues. Persecution of homosexual young men is a real problem so media that perhaps handles it poorly should be criticized. I love Yosuke but his treatment of Kanji is indefensible, even back in 2008 or whatever. Unless we go with the idea he himself is bisexual, which I tend to support. That doesn't make it more right but it makes it more...sympathetic. Girls beating up boys is not a serious real world concern where media making a big joke about it will cause active harm. P4 is not reinforcing an active evil in the real world by having Chie kick Yosuke in the nuts. Besides, gag scenes are just that, gags. They don't even change anything. It's like how in a Western cartoon somebody will get a big lump on their head but it's gone net second. Or Moe trying to saw open Curly's head. These things just don't have any real impact on the narrative or characters and take place in their own little Gag Dimension.
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Jun 20, 2020 09:29
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NikkolasKing posted:See, these are entirely separate issues. Persecution of homosexual young men is a real problem so media that perhaps handles it poorly should be criticized. I love Yosuke but his treatment of Kanji is indefensible, even back in 2008 or whatever. Unless we go with the idea he himself is bisexual, which I tend to support. That doesn't make it more right but it makes it more...sympathetic. Framing it as such, I can understand where you’re coming from. Honestly, I find it hard to fully like Yosuke because of his homophobia and treatment of Kanji. In general, Kanji gets treated so badly and I don’t think the MC even gets a chance to discuss Kanji’s sexuality except as a joke or something that’s “ewwwww”. The game had so much potential and I really enjoy Kanji’s story in the lens of him dealing with his sexuality. As a gay man, its stories like his that I want to see, but only if they’re approached in a sincere way. Sometimes I feel like the LGBT coding in the game is more incidental than intentional. Also, there originally was a gay romance social link for Yosuke that was taken out and that really makes me sad.
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Jun 20, 2020 09:37
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Chie beating up Yosuke is a gag scene, but I never found it funny, it was just kind of awkwardly uncomfortable to watch. Teddie as a whole is a bundle of  tooHonestly that's kind of my general reaction to a lot of P4, but I also just don't really enjoy most of the characters in P4 in general. They started off pretty neat and the starting dynamic the main 4 had was pretty cool but I am just really not a fan of the way everyone gets handled after that; it feels as if they stop existing as individual characters and instead just become part of the friend group where the same type of joke is just played up until Naoto shows up and decides it's plot time. I have the same issues with P5, but I feel like P5 doesn't really fall into the "generic friendship group" dynamic, though I guess that's more because P5 didn't really have a solid dynamic. I read Yosuke as bisexual, especially considering the whole cut romance thing, but honestly I never felt like Yosuke being a literal homophobe is really a big issue with the game considering I never felt the game really agreed with Yosuke in the first place, and he stops bringing it up entirely after a while too. Yosuke is probably one of the more realistic depictions of "lovely '00s teenager" I've seen, boomerang homophobia and all and I think it's pretty interesting to see, even though it does suck that there's never any kind of scene or indication Yosuke actually apologizes or... anything really to Kanji. Then again, I only played P4 and P5 right after one another a year or two ago so maybe I've just seen these kinds of dynamics too often 
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Jun 20, 2020 09:40
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I also want to add that Shadow Kanji gets treated by the main cast awfully. He gets worse reactions from the main cast than loving Mitsuo. The dungeon in general really rubs me the wrong way.
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Jun 20, 2020 09:47
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jimmydalad posted:I don’t think the MC even gets a chance to discuss Kanji’s sexuality except as a joke or something that’s “ewwwww”.
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Jun 20, 2020 09:49
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PMush Perfect posted:You’d better believe I flirt with Kanji at every opportunity. Trust me, I would too. Kanji is a good kid and the best character. I wish there was a Kanji romance option. Give me bisexual MC!
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Jun 20, 2020 09:50
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jimmydalad posted:Framing it as such, I can understand where you’re coming from. Honestly, I find it hard to fully like Yosuke because of his homophobia and treatment of Kanji. In general, Kanji gets treated so badly and I don’t think the MC even gets a chance to discuss Kanji’s sexuality except as a joke or something that’s “ewwwww”. Everyone looks at Kanji or Yosuke as the 'wasted bi/gay option' but for me it's Daisuke. He goes through like half his link hanging around his bros P4MC and Kou as well as being weird around girls and not wanting to date them and then in the end, no it's just because he was rejected as a kid and was afraid to try again. Also if I had to date any of the 'bro' characters as a dude it would be Ryuji. Junpei is a good dude but I think he really works best as a protective friend for FeMC.
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Jun 20, 2020 10:07
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The secret of p5 is that ryuji isn't the successor to junpei and yosuke, it's morgana The magician is the "your lovely bro" arcana
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Jun 20, 2020 10:11
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I would like the next Persona game (or SMT game, if somehow applicable) to let me date guys.
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Jun 20, 2020 10:11
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I don't mind Yosuke THAT much because his homophobia isn't unlike any ignorant teenager in our society would have. It also helps that just like it usually happens in real life, he drops it as he knows him and gets life experience. He's a piece of poo poo when he says that in the tent but remember later in the game he shares a room with Kanji in the Amagi Inn and even intends to go in the bath with him and the rest and he doesn't even make a passing comment. An apology would have been nice but then we would be tackling other problem P4 started with the teammates hardly having any interactions if they aren't directly with the MC or the whole group after they join, unlike P3. (Keep in mind I've only played vanilla P4, I wouldn't find it strange if they added worse scenes and dialogues in Golden) What I mean is, while you can be a bit insensitive, you can write a character like Yosuke without being a homophobe as opposed to the P5 guys which aren't just ignorant but pure destiled hateful depictions and are even worse by this: jimmydalad posted:I think P4 suffers due to it being a reflection of the time it was made. Maybe I’m being dumb, but during the 00’s, social issues weren’t really in the spotlight so stuff like Chie kicking Yosuke in the balls for breaking a DVD and the way that the game approaches homosexuality wasn’t something that audiences were as clued into. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be critical or analyse these things, but this game is nearly 12 years old so that and my nostalgia of it has me being not as harsh on the messages it gives out.
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Jun 20, 2020 10:43
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Yosuke is the only bro character I have ever liked unless we count Eikichi. I didn't care for either Junpei or Ryuji. In fact, I think P4's strength is that the OG Investigation Team is the best part of the game. I always rolled with Yosuke, Chie and Yukiko. In P3 I dumped Yukari and Junpei first chance I got and my team was Mitsuru, Akihiko and Aigis. Also Shinji for the brief time he was around.They are just way better, more interesting characters. Junpei with his jealousy and Yukari with her unfounded hostility towards Mitsuru both put me off. In P5...I don't even remember. I only liked Haru of the main cast, anyway. I think P4G is so timeless (in spite of how dated a lot of it is) because, as one YT comment put it, "Persona 4 made me feel like I had friends." Persona 4 Golden and persona 2 Innocent Sin are my all-time favorite Persona games for their ability to make me feel a real connection and bond with these fictional characters. Also for their ability to give the town the game takes place in a character of its own. You feel invested in Inaba and Sumaru City so much more than you ever do with bland island in P3 and Tokyo in P5.
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Jun 20, 2020 10:53
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Maybe I'm misremembering some stuff but there's absolutely nothing in my mind that Ryuji does that's worse than the poo poo Yosuke gets up to, honestly. I don't buy anyone except Yu or Teddie staying friends with Yosuke after the events of p4, whereas the idea that the p5 cast stays friends seems relatively plausible. Again, they seem like they offloaded some of the baggage of that onto Morgana, who's just unrelentingly grody to Ann. Whereas Ann and Ryuji have kind of a nice teen friendship. edit: this is all couched in the baseline that persona writes all of their teen boys like it's a decades old teen comedy, to be clear. ryuji still can be a creep sometimes, but yosuke fuckin' SUCKED in a much bigger way at key points.
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Jun 20, 2020 11:00
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I think Yosuke and Teddie basically just kinda feed off each other so it also makes sense that they kinda amplify their worst traits. On some level though I imagine seeing Teddie act like an immature kid might eventually make Yosuke mature a bit faster.Varinn posted:Maybe I'm misremembering some stuff but there's absolutely nothing in my mind that Ryuji does that's worse than the poo poo Yosuke gets up to, honestly. I don't buy anyone except Yu or Teddie staying friends with Yosuke after the events of p4, whereas the idea that the p5 cast stays friends seems relatively plausible. Most of the problems that people have with Ryuji (aside from the fact that he has to play the idiot for plot narrative) is the bit with him and Morgana that ends with Morgana confessing his insecurities but Ryuji never apologizing for his part. I don't really knock that against him though, everybody in that arc was a bit of an idiot other than Ann and Yusuke. Also I will say that Yukari and Junpei are probably my favourite 'bumbling male/female friends who rag on each other' dynamic. Yukari gets a lot of well deserved flak for The Answer but her and Junpei both go through the most growth and also get the least flanderized in spinoffs. Also helps that Junpei gives to Yukari as good as he gets, whereas Chie mostly slams Yosuke while the most Yosuke does in return is just play the straight man.
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Jun 20, 2020 11:09
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Ryuji is easily the best character in P5. Even with the pre-palace 4 set up.
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Jun 20, 2020 11:15
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See I never felt like Ryuji needed to apologize for his side in that feud for the same reason that I really hated the rivalry plot beat between them: Morgana just wins every time. He's clearly written as smarter and more clever, and he just shits on Ryuji for no reason, and Ryuji really only is capable of two comebacks: that he's a cat, and that he's, uh, stupid. It always read as super one-sided to me. Anyway Ryuji is also saved by not like, having junpei's weird "carrying a printer to a goth girl's hospital room" plot, so in conclusion protect our sweet dumb boy
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Jun 20, 2020 11:16
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I never liked Yosuke because I was the guy in Kanji's position having to deal with homophobic dicks.
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Jun 20, 2020 11:21
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Ryuji (and Yosuke) is an idiot hothead because the plot demands that someone has to be the one who makes the obvious mistakes and asks the dumb questions so that the game can progress the plot and make the smart characters look smart. I wish they wrote him to be more temperate in the plot, but if they did then someone else would have to pick up the part. I do like that Ann and Yusuke at least get the voices of 'this Phantom Thieves fad is actually getting kinda scary, maybe we should calm down', even if the plot has to ignore them.
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Jun 20, 2020 11:23
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Also it's always been super weird to me that Morgana's plot just.....................goes nowhere? I'll spoil this, obviously, but it's the series' weirdest anticlimax. Him being the 'last dregs of Igor's resistance' or however the game puts it just........is nothing. Teddie's revelation as a shadow is interesting because it's novel and sort of hits the same self-actualization beats the rest of the game has been harping on, but Morgana just repeats the same beats without the themes. If they had spent all the time he spends being horny and insulting Ryuji with him radicalizing the Phantom Thieves into being more and more revolutionary, that'd at least make sense, but even when he's fufilling his role he just gets............horny for treasure. Incredibly weird. Seeing how Royal plays out has brought back all of my weird frustrations with how close that game gets to good ideas before chickening out.
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Jun 20, 2020 11:24
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ApplesandOranges posted:Ryuji (and Yosuke) is an idiot hothead because the plot demands that someone has to be the one who makes the obvious mistakes and asks the dumb questions so that the game can progress the plot and make the smart characters look smart. I wish they wrote him to be more temperate in the plot, but if they did then someone else would have to pick up the part. Yosuke isn't actually that dumb. Before Naoto joins up he's usually the one taking charge and presenting ideas o how to proceed.
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Jun 20, 2020 11:26
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ApplesandOranges posted:Ryuji (and Yosuke) is an idiot hothead because the plot demands that someone has to be the one who makes the obvious mistakes and asks the dumb questions so that the game can progress the plot and make the smart characters look smart. I wish they wrote him to be more temperate in the plot, but if they did then someone else would have to pick up the part. On other hand, Ryuji being the idiot hothead who causes plot to happen also means he's one of the few characters who gets an arc outside of social links. And it's pretty strong all in all and somehow it becomes one of the main themes of the game as it ends up shying away from really discussing societal change in the last act.
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Jun 20, 2020 11:30
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Persona is fairly grounded in that it's set in the real world setting and it attempts to tackle issues like gender roles, but then it undercuts the message it's trying to send by using stock anime jokes like "lol girls can't cook" and "lol look at the girls beating up the boys". I'm not saying Persona shouldn't have jokes to lighten up the mood, but that the gags they use are poo poo.PMush Perfect posted:He broke a DVD. Yosuke apologized for the accident and even said he'll buy Chie another copy of her DVD as soon as he gets his paycheck. Yosuke can be an rear end in a top hat at times, but he really didn't deserve that kick to the balls. jimmydalad posted:I also want to add that Shadow Kanji gets treated by the main cast awfully. He gets worse reactions from the main cast than loving Mitsuo. The dungeon in general really rubs me the wrong way. I'm pretty sure Shadow Kanji appears in the P4 Arena games and they run that lovely gay panic "joke" into the ground. Varinn posted:Maybe I'm misremembering some stuff but there's absolutely nothing in my mind that Ryuji does that's worse than the poo poo Yosuke gets up to, honestly. I don't buy anyone except Yu or Teddie staying friends with Yosuke after the events of p4, whereas the idea that the p5 cast stays friends seems relatively plausible. I remember in the cruiser palace, the group had to get some letters from shadows of politicians to progress. One of them was hanging out at the swimming pool and wouldn't talk, so Ryuji gets the idea of forcing the girls into swimsuits to get the letter. He even makes an offhanded remark that instead of three swimsuits, they'll need four for Futaba, because their target is "prolly into that kinda thing." It was both pretty creepy and pretty pointless, since the group ended up fighting the shadow to get the letter, anyway.
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Jun 20, 2020 11:39
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Shadow Kanji does appear in the Arena games, but he really isn't much of an appearance. He's more like a skin for Kanji where his mannerisms and voice lines are more like his Shadow's (and other Shadow-specific mechanics). The jokes that get more run into the ground in Arena and Ultimax are Teddie being a horndog and Yukiko not being able to cook. I will say that I think Arena actually did a good job, since it actually plays the same basic story, but from each party member's point of view. That's kinda neat since you actually get viewpoints not from P4MC depending on who's the 'hero' (for instance, Naoto solves the plot through deduction, Chie does it through instinct, Kanji thinks the whole thing is some weird dream for like half of it). Ultimax's plot is kinda dumb, though. It's only good for seeing Junpei and Yukari's new outfits.
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Jun 20, 2020 11:52
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With regards to the DVD, I'm not sure if it's just a Golden only thing but Yosuke does comp Chie for it. It's during the thunderstorm scene. I know because I've been replaying it on PC, which runs fine for now.
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Jun 20, 2020 12:01
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NikkolasKing posted:Also for their ability to give the town the game takes place in a character of its own. You feel invested in Inaba and Sumaru City so much more than you ever do with bland island in P3 and Tokyo in P5. I think a lot of this comes down to like a sense of scale. Tokyo and Persona Island are both giant cities with like thousands or millions of people. There's a sense of like "going to the mall" for everything. Small town Inaba is a place where it feels like your actions could make a difference. I think P4 also does better with its sense of urgency. P5 deadlines are usually about saving some or all of the party members asses, because they always end up getting in over their heads IRL. P4 deadlines about stopping somebody from getting murdered, full-stop.
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Jun 20, 2020 12:12
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deadly_pudding posted:I think a lot of this comes down to like a sense of scale. Tokyo and Persona Island are both giant cities with like thousands or millions of people. There's a sense of like "going to the mall" for everything. Small town Inaba is a place where it feels like your actions could make a difference. Clearly you haven't seen any of the stuff that comes up with the 3rd and 4th palace.
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Jun 20, 2020 12:24
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A Bystander posted:With regards to the DVD, I'm not sure if it's just a Golden only thing but Yosuke does comp Chie for it. It's during the thunderstorm scene. I know because I've been replaying it on PC, which runs fine for now. I remember that Yosuke says he'll comp Chie for it in the original, and we kind of assume he does, but we never actually see him do it.
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Jun 20, 2020 12:41
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Having just watched Kanji storm off because of Yosuke's jokes and seeing Chie and Yuki basically call him an immature prick, he keeps digging himself a hole and barely escaping. But over the story he's definitely losing the battle onr bringing up the sauna for no good reason. Also the Kanji+Naoto story seems to have more in common with a specific Disney movie than him being bisexual. Which brings to mind, did this thread attract actually new players that are dodging spoilers? I haven't played P5, but I made my decision and just squint away plot details. Back to the game, there's no way I'm gonna get perfect 10s on all these SLinks even with casual use of FAQs for bento, quizes, and SLinks, so I'm busy friendzoning all of the NG+ plan is to manwhore all over town and probably FF through the majority of the game's 2011. I can't recall the month when the final plot arc begins, but it's probably around there just by normal division of a 3-arc plot. E: Cleretic posted:I remember that Yosuke says he'll comp Chie for it in the original, and we kind of assume he does, but we never actually see him do it. Andrigaar fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 12:56
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