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AntherUslessPoster posted:Its a guillotine not a healing device in the first place. The purpose is to restore the damage done by the criminal to the victim. I never caught on to that but drat is that an awesome concept now that you call it out.
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Jun 20, 2020 15:01
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Why didn't Marcus just get 4-5 other people and then have everyone donate a little bit of life to Susan instead of cranking it up to MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE
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Jun 20, 2020 15:14
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McCloud posted:Why didn't Marcus just get 4-5 other people and then have everyone donate a little bit of life to Susan instead of cranking it up to MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE Because he was a lovesick idiot too busy panicking to think clearly. And possibly, considering that she wasn't attracted to him and wasn't ever going to be with him (creepy as hell short story aside), possibly he decided that he'd rather die for her than live without her. Between Marcus and Lennier, JMS had some things to say about the line between love and obsession, and what happens to people who cross from one to the other.
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Jun 20, 2020 15:21
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McCloud posted:Why didn't Marcus just get 4-5 other people and then have everyone donate a little bit of life to Susan instead of cranking it up to MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE Because then it wouldn’t have been him saving her, it would have been the others. This way, when he drains his entire life force and dies, Ivonova will realize how much he’s sacrificed and they’ll live happily ever after he wakes up from draining his entire life force and...wait...what...wait, oh poo poo wait, is the machine on? somebody turn off the machine I need to rethink///***
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Jun 20, 2020 15:29
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There was a time and permission factor involved too. Everyone else was too busy to have time for the ethics debate they would have demanded to have if he'd let anyone else in on the plan. I choose to believe Marcus is the genuine nice guy that nice guy creeps think they are. Susan even says he never asked anything in return and he never mopes or complains that he deserves her, Lennier style. The short story never happened.
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Jun 20, 2020 15:48
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From how I remember it Medbay was busted up and there were a bunch of unconscious bodies left in his wake, Marcus was pretty laser focused on there being one possible way to save her
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Jun 20, 2020 19:09
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Tsaedje posted:The short story never happened. auuuuggghghghghhf What a completely spectacular exercise in missing the point.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:43
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AntherUslessPoster posted:Its a guillotine not a healing device in the first place. You are literally ignoring the spoken text of the episode to make a point that doesn't exist.
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Jun 20, 2020 22:02
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Tsaedje posted:There was a time and permission factor involved too. Everyone else was too busy to have time for the ethics debate they would have demanded to have if he'd let anyone else in on the plan. Babylon 5 in general has a strong theme of aggressive self-sacrifice in it, too. G'Kar, Londo, Marcus, Sheridan, Those Drazi idiots from 4x06, probably others.
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Jun 20, 2020 22:07
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Jedit posted:You are literally ignoring the spoken text of the episode to make a point that doesn't exist. I'm notorious for  and being wrong so totally can be. Could you be more specific about the spoken text? All I had available (legally) to watch was locally translated version so I might have misunderstood the details
Erulisse fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 23:08
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younger races thread posted:I guess the shadows have other allies? Might there be an entire axis of space evil out at the rim? 
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Jun 21, 2020 13:42
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McSpanky posted:auuuuggghghghghhf It was deliberately written to be controversial. I just don’t think JMS realized that the controversy would end up being whether the story should be treated as noncanonical or whether all copies of it should be destroyed and the thing entirely erased from our minds.
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Jun 21, 2020 13:52
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I'm pretty sure it was another episode designed to set up a Star Trek situation, and solve it Babylon 5 style.
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Jun 21, 2020 14:23
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I'm not familiar with the short story in question. Is there any value in reading it or should I just go on being unaware?
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Jun 21, 2020 16:35
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ultrafilter posted:I'm not familiar with the short story in question. Is there any value in reading it or should I just go on being unaware? Factoring in the usual disclaimers about each of us having different tastes and what offends me may not you and so on and so forth, I personally am not a happier person as a Babylon 5 fan for having read it.
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Jun 21, 2020 16:57
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ultrafilter posted:I'm not familiar with the short story in question. Is there any value in reading it or should I just go on being unaware? The last time that story came up, there were calls for brain bleach, and we congratulated the one goon who didn't look it up for being the Vir to our Londo. So...
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Jun 21, 2020 17:06
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jng2058 posted:Factoring in the usual disclaimers about each of us having different tastes and what offends me may not you and so on and so forth, I personally am not a happier person as a Babylon 5 fan for having read it. Concur.
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Jun 21, 2020 17:10
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Ignorance truly is bliss.
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Jun 21, 2020 17:41
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Don’t try and track it down, don’t even look for a plot summary. It’s that bad.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:04
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If you are really curious, just know that it’s a story that’s intended to be romantic but instead is cringey and sort of pathetic. That’s really all you need to know. If someone had told me it was some sad shut-in’s fan wank I would have believed them. I guess I wasn’t as mentally damaged as most, but it’s honestly not worth digging up.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:10
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Let's put it this way: it purports to offer a happy ending for Marcus. If it had instead told the story of Marcus being revived and going off alone to live on an asteroid, where he spent the rest of his life hallucinating that Ivanova was alive and they were living there together, that would have been considerably less horrifying and would have presented a far more healthy situation than what the story provides. Hell, replace the hallucination with a life-sized Ivanova pillow and it's still a healthier situation.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:49
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ultrafilter posted:I'm not familiar with the short story in question. Is there any value in reading it or should I just go on being unaware? If you've watched AI, you've already read it.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:50
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You know what, I believe in giving people a choice instead of acting like seventh graders with a Playboy. https://www.scribd.com/document/79027439/Babylon-5-Space-Time-the-Incurable-Romantic https://dokumen.tips/documents/babylon-5-space-time-the-incurable-romantic.html Midjack fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jun 21, 2020 |
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Jun 21, 2020 19:07
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You want to just share the pain. don't fib.
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Jun 21, 2020 19:19
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CainFortea posted:You want to just share the pain. don't fib. No, it's more combat against the I KNOW MORE THAN YOU AND WON'T SHARE IT attitude that unpleasant nerds display and is one of the things I most despise about fandoms. I think the story loving sucked but when you get a dozen people in here one-upping each other's level of detail to demonstrate how much more about it they know in what I guess you'd call "performative shepherding," it's kind of a lovely way to proceed. Similar to how the blindwatch spoilers have gone, really. Midjack fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jun 21, 2020 |
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Jun 21, 2020 19:24
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I kinda thought of Marcus and Lennier as the goofus and gallant of nice guys, kinda like the polar opposite of the nice guy spectrum. That short story erases that distinction and just draws a big fat equation sign between them. Also man did JMS have a hateboner for Ivanova for some reason? Her mom killed herself, her dad died estranged and bitter from her, her brother died young, her girlfriend was murdered and then dissected, Marcus died to save her life, and if the actress hadn't left she would have been the one dating psycho cult leader Byron. Like drat, give a girl a break, eh?
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Jun 21, 2020 19:35
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McCloud posted:I kinda thought of Marcus and Lennier as the goofus and gallant of nice guys, kinda like the polar opposite of the nice guy spectrum. That short story erases that distinction and just draws a big fat equation sign between them. JMS wanted to bone Claudia Christian right after she’s ended a relationship but the date went badly and things were weird between them after that.
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Jun 21, 2020 19:42
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The Marcus story is basically the goon printer story on roids and it sucks.
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Jun 21, 2020 19:46
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Midjack posted:No, it's more combat against the I KNOW MORE THAN YOU AND WON'T SHARE IT attitude that unpleasant nerds display and is one of the things I most despise about fandoms. I think the story loving sucked but when you get a dozen people in here one-upping each other's level of detail to demonstrate how much more about it they know in what I guess you'd call "performative shepherding," it's kind of a lovely way to proceed. Similar to how the blindwatch spoilers have gone, really. I wasn't serious.
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Jun 21, 2020 19:56
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TK-42-1 posted:The Marcus story is basically the goon printer story on roids and it sucks. Honestly I feel like that comparison is a bit unfair to the printer-carrying goon.
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Jun 21, 2020 20:16
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I don't the phrase incurable romantic is as romantic as people think it is tbh
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Jun 21, 2020 21:14
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Midjack posted:JMS wanted to bone Claudia Christian right after she’s ended a relationship but the date went badly and things were weird between them after that. ...well, I think that explains a lot
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Jun 21, 2020 21:39
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Didn’t he send her a limo full of flowers or something, just like he has Corwin do in that super awful episode?
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Jun 21, 2020 23:27
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Midjack posted:No, it's more combat against the I KNOW MORE THAN YOU AND WON'T SHARE IT attitude that unpleasant nerds display and is one of the things I most despise about fandoms. I think the story loving sucked but when you get a dozen people in here one-upping each other's level of detail to demonstrate how much more about it they know in what I guess you'd call "performative shepherding," it's kind of a lovely way to proceed. Similar to how the blindwatch spoilers have gone, really. That’s not what’s happening. Anyone can google it, it’s not like the B5 masters that one one guy has.
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Jun 21, 2020 23:32
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VideoGames posted:I actually wanted Londo to get a taste of revenge for it. Oh man, poor VG is gonna feel bad about this later.
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Jun 21, 2020 23:44
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Yeah all of VG’s latest posts are kind of a cross between and 
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Jun 21, 2020 23:56
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Doctor Zero posted:That’s not what’s happening. Anyone can google it, it’s not like the B5 masters that one one guy has. So then say nothing or say why it's bad instead of just going "omigod it's soooo bad you wouldn't believe, OH NO DON'T LOOK FOR IT" like most of the replies did. Don't treat newcomers like dumbshits, treat them like equals.
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Jun 22, 2020 00:50
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Were the season titles ever displayed anywhere outside the internet and the box sets? I think it might be a point of interest for the blind thread, but I don't want to even mention them if a regular viewer back then wouldn't have known about them. Amazon doesn't display them.
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Jun 22, 2020 00:57
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Doctor Zero posted:Yeah all of VG’s latest posts are kind of a cross between He's going to be annoyed when he finds out why 3rd August 2258 was given as a Wednesday when it's actually going to be a Tuesday.
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Jun 22, 2020 01:04
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Midjack posted:JMS wanted to bone Claudia Christian right after she’s ended a relationship but the date went badly and things were weird between them after that. I haven’t read her autobiography and only know part of this story. Perhaps you could elaborate at least enough to explain why you think this made a difference in the writing? When did their “date” happen in the course of production? My favorite is Bill Mumy telling JMS he thought Lennier was in love with Delenn and JMS responding with a version of “are you sure you want that?” No failed attempt to date required.
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Jun 22, 2020 01:04
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