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Not really. I've had some people recommend the Locke Lamora books as a sort of spiritual successor to Mat's storyline/characterization but I found them to be pretty obnoxious. Maybe other folks can think of something that actually hits the mark?
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Jun 24, 2020 20:05
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Honestly Conan kinda fits.
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Jun 24, 2020 20:28
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https://youtu.be/-q6KWnwsZuc
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Jun 24, 2020 22:26
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Mat Cauthon posted:Not really. I agree with this post. Ummmmmm. Maybe the wraith squadron star wars novels, I kinda feel like Wes has some of the same trickster but awesome person vibe going on?
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Jun 24, 2020 22:57
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Zore posted:Honestly Conan kinda fits. I really like the RJ Conan books and I need to rebuy them at some point because I lost my old copies in a move like a decade ago. They definitely scratch that itch of "rogueish character keeps finding himself in caught up in world-changing adventures, entangled with powerful women, and elevated as a leader of men when all he really wants to do is drink and gamble in comfort" and they're entertaining stories to boot. Plus 90% less weird racism compared to the originals! I never made the connection in my mind to it being akin to Mat's character because, well, it's Conan. But that checks out to me after giving it a thought and you could certainly do worse.
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Jun 24, 2020 23:21
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i mean, some people might not want to hear it but mat is basically the most stereotypical fantasy character out of the group, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find a book with a protagonist like him compared to the others
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Jun 25, 2020 01:50
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Johnny Joestar posted:i mean, some people might not want to hear it but mat is basically the most stereotypical fantasy character out of the group, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find a book with a protagonist like him compared to the others Tell me more. Like, seriously, I've never heard this.
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Jun 25, 2020 01:58
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If you are talking about Rand I’d understand.
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Jun 25, 2020 01:59
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Johnny Joestar posted:i mean, some people might not want to hear it but mat is basically the most stereotypical fantasy character out of the group, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find a book with a protagonist like him compared to the others 
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Jun 25, 2020 02:02
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Mat gives me vague Silk from the Belgariad vibes based on my very hazy recollections.
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Jun 25, 2020 02:03
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silvergoose posted:Tell me more. Like, seriously, I've never heard this. rogueish womanizer who has a relative heart of gold and a collection of magical doohickeys? hell, i could throw harry dresden in there for the most part off the top of my head if someone wants some kinda trashy urban fantasy. like i'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just that it'd probably be easier to find that than something along the lines of rand going bugshit insane in a fairly well-done way over the course of a series.
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Jun 25, 2020 02:12
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I understand what you’re saying but Mat has a something something more I can’t quite pinpoint. He’s kinda like Han Solo but not really. Maybe it’s the insane luck that’s manifested instead of just baked into the character so they can’t die.
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Jun 25, 2020 02:17
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i mean i probably sounded a bit glib at first about it, i'll admit to that. if anything, mat excelling at his role is due to jordan being really good at that sort of sweeping mythological setting which lets it breathe a bit.
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Jun 25, 2020 02:24
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Invalid Validation posted:I understand what you’re saying but Mat has a something something more I can’t quite pinpoint. He’s kinda like Han Solo but not really. Maybe it’s the insane luck that’s manifested instead of just baked into the character so they can’t die. Mat constantly running from his destiny and getting wrapped up in it anyway is part of it. He's a simple guy with simple desires and ends up married to the empress of an entire continent. What's more when it happens he denies that it has any significance, and his friends have to explain to him that yes, actually it does. The other aspect of his character was that story someone (I think Moiraine?) tells about another "dissolute" lazy character that just liked to play pranks and drink and gamble - they died running into a burning building multiple times and saving every kid in there they could. He has a huge sense of duty and responsibility and hides it, even from himself, by just pretending to be a goofy lazy git. Mat is funny not because he tells jokes but because he doesn't understand himself, isn't understood by anyone else, and just gets constantly wrapped up in bizarre improbable scrapes and manages to get out of them by even more improbable means. He's a trainwreck that you can't look away from because you know somehow it will all work out well for him. It's completely tonally different, but Rincewind from Discworld kind of reminds me of that aspect: he's constantly running away from his problems (turning minor inconveniences into major disasters) and ends up becoming a big drat hero by accident.
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Jun 25, 2020 03:52
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It reminds me a little bit of Flashman. A villainous cowardly bully who spends most of his life trying to escape danger, getting dragged into it despite his best efforts, and somehow coming out the other side being hailed as a hero entirely by accident.
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Jun 25, 2020 05:04
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poo poo to go back to Discworld he has the same appeal as Vimes does, men who don't want to deal with this poo poo but it just keeps happening and damnit I can do it right so I'll get it done so I can just end this day and get back to reading a book to my kid.
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Jun 25, 2020 05:26
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TGG posted:poo poo to go back to Discworld he has the same appeal as Vimes does, men who don't want to deal with this poo poo but it just keeps happening and damnit I can do it right so I'll get it done so I can just end this day and get back to reading a book to my kid. Except that Vimes has plenty of chances to step aside. He even retires once. But at the end of the day he's a copper, always has been a copper, and will die a copper and get buried in Small Gods with the other coppers. Vimes grumbles more when he's away from work, when he's not patrolling the streets he knows, than when he is.
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Jun 25, 2020 05:45
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A train wreck is a good summation. Probably helps he’s not a douchebag and the respect he garners is earned. Guy saves a small army from being decimated on multiple occasions, of course they would want to follow him into the pit of hell.
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Jun 25, 2020 06:32
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I've been trying get get a reread going both in anticipation of the series and because I haven't read these books since high school and fell off before the last few books came out. I vaguely remember all this awesome stuff you guys talk about happening later on but these early chapters in the two rivers are really difficult for me to get through. I don't think I want to skip ahead, but I just wanted to air this complaint to help me get over the hump.
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Jun 25, 2020 06:46
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if it helps, it really starts kicking in once you get to the second book. the first is a little too...eh, compared to the rest.
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Jun 25, 2020 06:52
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Mat calls back a bit to older "lovable rogue" archetypes like Corwin from Amber. The great general part is tougher to find parallels for off the top of my head.
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Jun 25, 2020 06:55
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Johnny Joestar posted:if it helps, it really starts kicking in once you get to the second book. the first is a little too...eh, compared to the rest. I will always defend the stuff on the road to Camelyn, it was just so suspenseful the first time I read it
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Jun 25, 2020 06:59
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If Mat had any self-awareness about his skills he'd be insufferable to read. Can you imagine if he was arguing battle strategy from a "you should listen because I'm awesome" perspective instead of "you should listen because it will work and yours won't"? It would be like early Galad, before you get the perspective chapters that show he really sincerely does believe all that honor stuff he's spouting.
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Jun 25, 2020 07:34
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DarkHorse posted:Mat constantly running from his destiny and getting wrapped up in it anyway is part of it. He's a simple guy with simple desires and ends up married to the empress of an entire continent. What's more when it happens he denies that it has any significance, and his friends have to explain to him that yes, actually it does. The other aspect of his character was that story someone (I think Moiraine?) tells about another "dissolute" lazy character that just liked to play pranks and drink and gamble - they died running into a burning building multiple times and saving every kid in there they could. It was Siuan, btw; reminding him that, yes, even if he doesn't want to, he's gotta be at the Last Battle to toot the brass.
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Jun 25, 2020 12:37
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silvergoose posted:It was Siuan, btw; reminding him that, yes, even if he doesn't want to, he's gotta be at the Last Battle to toot the brass. That was a tidy little character reset. Mat was kind of a turd in the first two books (for good reason). Positioning that scene at the beginning of Book 3 was a great way to frame Mat’s character going forward.
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Jun 25, 2020 14:52
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Mat in tar valon was several top notch scenes: him inhaling food without noticing, that scene with Siuan, quarterstaff fight, gambling fever, chicken with Thom.
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Jun 25, 2020 18:00
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yeah I'm really looking forward to convalescent mat in the show
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Jun 26, 2020 02:54
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Cant post a link right now, but they have announced casting for a bunch of the Two Rivers fol k.
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Jun 26, 2020 02:56
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Here's the tweet https://mobile.twitter.com/WOTonPrime/status/1275842455967985670
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Jun 26, 2020 03:02
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Yeah I'm digging all of those. Abell Cauthon looks like a dude that would always be slyly coming ahead in any deal.
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Jun 26, 2020 03:15
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My first thought was "Now there's a man who I'd believe is the best horse trader in the Two Rivers." The Al'Veres look great too. They all look great.
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Jun 26, 2020 03:22
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Mat's da is also the quarterstaff champion of the Two Rivers and I could see that, too.
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Jun 26, 2020 04:55
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Invalid Validation posted:A train wreck is a good summation. Probably helps he’s not a douchebag and the respect he garners is earned. Guy saves a small army from being decimated on multiple occasions, of course they would want to follow him into the pit of hell. There was a neat comparison somewhere, where someone was talking about this amazing general whose entire army would do the same, except the guy was bugfuck insane. Like, ordered them to cut down a forest for looking at him funny and then ordering them to bury the trees with full honors that all of the army went along with because at the end of the day he gave a poo poo if they lived or died and always won. Mat's kind of like that without the insanity. He really does give a poo poo about his soldiers and wants them to live and so far always wins. Of course an army would follow him to hell and back, the other generals are just fine with throwing dudes to their deaths for honor and glory, Mat's trying to win so they can go home and relax.
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Jun 27, 2020 01:45
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Jordan must have really liked Mat cause pretty much everyone in his orbit was fun to read about.
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Jun 27, 2020 01:55
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Khizan posted:Mat's da is also the quarterstaff champion of the Two Rivers and I could see that, too. This doesn’t get mentioned enough, but in hindsight just imagine how insane he must have been. Between tam blademaster al’thor and the other two rivers warrior families that turn out to be surprisingly deeply trained when the goldeneyes stuff kicks off, the two rivers annual quarter staff tournament probably feels more like something out of Cradle.
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Jun 27, 2020 13:50
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The Seanchan are so awful. I had forgotten that they had (Knife of Dreams): started mass production of forkroot so they could systemically weed out and enslave every woman who could channel. A lot of their culture is cool and unique and then the rest of it is just grinding dehumanization and slavery.
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Jun 28, 2020 21:17
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Yeah they really are.
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Jun 28, 2020 21:27
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They also quite literally were the deciding factor in the Last Battle.
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Jun 28, 2020 21:48
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They just get away with slavery and there is nothing in place for them to stop after the last battle.
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Jun 28, 2020 21:55
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I haven’t reached it yet on the re-read, but Aviendha’s second trip to Rhuidean was such a bummer re: the Seanchan. I’d guess Jordan believed that incremental change would be necessary to move the Seanchan on the issue and that starting a war with them would just cause them to entrench further.
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Jun 28, 2020 22:30
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