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CuwiKhons posted:I haven't been posting in this thread for awhile (I stopped watching because I lost interest in Campaign 2) but I saw that on twitter and I just want to say that if you actually read the entire goddamn thing, it's extremely stupid. The person involved was in some drama awhile back where he was getting relentlessly harassed by homophobic fans, which is 100% terrible, don't get me wrong. But he sent an email to the CR cast about it, basically wanting to make the poor behavior of fans into the cast's problem to deal with. He also claimed he wanted to help them with their 'history of off-color jokes' and that he was a sensitivity consultant, which is a real thing, but I highly doubt he is one. He offered them some advice for free (he doesn't say what the advice was) and claims they were happy with his services (he doesn't say what actions they took in response to his advice so it's unclear if they were actually using him as a consultant - all the discord screenshots he posts are just friendly conversations). Then several months in, he realized 'oh wait, this is a job people get paid for' and asked CR to cut him a check. They declined and he claims they started ghosting him. I have no prior history on this person like you do, but my impression from having read the whole rant basically mirrors yours. Even when they have total control over how to frame this to paint themselves in the best possible light, the story never seems to get to a point. If they really do have receipts, part of it should be some examples of the work they were producing because I am having a hard time conceptualizing what value they could have been adding given how they described the approach to their work.
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Jun 26, 2020 14:48
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CuwiKhons posted:Edit - I'm wrong, I have a very clear memory of them trying to tunnel their way to Xhorhas and actually making it through. They were in Xhorhas when I quit. That's when things really pick up in my opinion. It feels like the cast is having a lot of fun in the societies they run into in Xhorhas compared to the more generic human ones previously. You should give it another try.
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Jun 26, 2020 14:58
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Also, if you haven't watched it Ep. 52, right after they reach Xhorhas, is one of the funniest thing in both campaigns. Matt introduces a new NPC and the whole cast is cracking up to the point of having to walk away. Even just that episode alone is worth it IMO.
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Jun 26, 2020 15:07
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Dameius posted:I have no prior history on this person like you do, but my impression from having read the whole rant basically mirrors yours. Even when they have total control over how to frame this to paint themselves in the best possible light, the story never seems to get to a point. Yeah, I was expecting some kind of big revelation like "I told them not to make this joke and Sam personally told me he would continue saying it just to spite me" or "Here's evidence of Matthew Mercer using a racial slur!" And it turned out to be an absolute waste of time to read.
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Jun 26, 2020 15:29
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I am looking forward to Dani's S2 before Ep 100, just to make sure I'm up-to-date. Thanks to the holiday I won't have a problem watching the ep live, we'll see how that continues if I have to start going back into the office in a couple of weeks.
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Jun 26, 2020 15:32
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Taeke posted:Im kind of confused about that thread, and I don't want to be insensitive or anything so if I'm missing the mark let me know, but the way I read it: That was my reading too. I dug through again to find some examples of their history of "off-colour humour" and stuff against marginalized communities, but there's nothing there. Nor is there anything actually suggesting he was given or offered employment. They probably have dozens of volunteers throwing themselves at them, which I'd argue would be an issue, but that's still not a contract. I did see one of his complaints: apparently Reani's official art was whitewashed. You can check out the image here, but I don't agree with that https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/Reani Otherwise all I can see from that tweet storm is hyperbole. Rampant issues with the team and homophobia and racism that are getting worse? I doubt it. That said, I've seen enough random shittyness in their community, but their moderators are pretty quick on the draw and they're all very outspoken supporters of LGTBQ+ and things like BLM. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Jun 26, 2020 16:24
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Pinwiz11 posted:I am looking forward to Dani's S2 before Ep 100, just to make sure I'm up-to-date. Thanks to the holiday I won't have a problem watching the ep live, we'll see how that continues if I have to start going back into the office in a couple of weeks. Are the pre-recorded sessions airing at the usual time or did the change the schedule?
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Jun 26, 2020 16:25
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Mywhatacleanturtle posted:Are the pre-recorded sessions airing at the usual time or did the change the schedule? Same broadcast time. However, since I live in Central the episodes regularly run past midnight for me.
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Jun 26, 2020 16:28
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I did see one of his complaints: apparently Reani's official art was whitewashed. You can check out the image here, but I don't agree with that https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/Reani lol what is even the complaint? 'dark skin, white hair, gold freckles' is like the exact description i seem to recall the stuff about them not policing anti-trans/gay bigots is also baffling to me as a queer fan,their fanbase is incredibly diverse in terms of gender and sexuality and mods and cast members do a very good job. i'm sure some bigotry exists precisely because the fanbase is full of openly queer/trans/gnc people and therefore attracts nazi trolls, but it's not like those people are allowed to hang out and harass anyone eke out fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jun 26, 2020 |
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Jun 26, 2020 16:52
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I assumed that some whitewashed art was part of the art breaks they run before the stream and during the intermission, and that was the complaint. I wouldn't say there's a "good" way to whitewash a character, but fanart of a d&d character has to be about as close as you can get to that not being an issue. It's an artist's attempt to create a character based on a brief physical description, and by the way that character may not look anything like the actor who's playing them, including having different skin color, height, and a different gender or gender identity.
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Jun 26, 2020 17:01
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So my first impression that this person is just upset that CR didn't offer them a job and do things their way isn't just me, cool. Seems like they're legitimately struggling with harassment from the community, which sucks, and that they've put in a lot of effort to try to solve that problem, which is admirable, but now that it's not working out the way they want they're taking it out on the wrong people.
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Jun 26, 2020 17:16
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This is completely anecdotal, so make it that what you will, but I’m pretty outspoken about my gender identity issues and queer representation re:CR on twitter+elsewhere, and at most I’ve been confronted by a handful of bigoted wankstains with any attachment to the community. It’s reminiscent of the centrist dems whining that Bernie wasn’t personally policing every single one of his supporters on the internet. Also,I get the impression that if there was any conclusive evidence of hateful behavior from CR themselves it would be included in the time the person wrote since they’re trying to make such a spectacle of it.
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Jun 26, 2020 17:19
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Ohhh got it. Sorry to bring this up folks I just was a bit confused by it myself and was very much wondering if anyone had heard more. Sorry to bother everyone! Especially at the moment.
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Jun 26, 2020 17:32
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Okay, on one hand I get the whole "if you're good at something, never do it for free" idea. Everyone's gotta make a buck to live in America. But...it seems a little skeevy to volunteer to do something for free, do it for months, then demand payment after the fact.
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Jun 26, 2020 17:32
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jng2058 posted:Okay, on one hand I get the whole "if you're good at something, never do it for free" idea. Everyone's gotta make a buck to live in America. Its like mowing someones lawn then ringing their doorbell and asking for payment.
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Jun 26, 2020 17:47
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https://twitter.com/CriticalRole/status/1276555265345679360
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Jun 26, 2020 18:03
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Josef bugman posted:Ohhh got it. Nah, it's good to bring stuff up like this. There might not actually be any substance to it now, but often times there is.
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Jun 26, 2020 18:17
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Fandoms: Not even once
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Jun 26, 2020 18:19
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It's incredibly not skeevy to start to ask to be paid for something that people get paid for that you have been doing for free. They are under no obligation to hire you or retain you. But saying that person shouldn't be paid for sensitivity consulting which is something that people generally get paid for is absurd.
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Jun 26, 2020 18:26
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It sounds like they complained to CR about harassment, CR took the time to listen to him, and now he wants to be paid for complaining. It’s like me PMing a mod, telling them I don’t like what their doing, and then sending a consulting invoice.
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Jun 26, 2020 18:27
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And he waited until the announcement about the show returning to say, "Look I've been sitting on this for over a year and REALLY didn't want to do this, but..." And a cursory reading from Tweets by people who've interacted with him make him out to be a cock.
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Jun 26, 2020 18:29
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That Twitter thread was so loving vague that I still don't even understand what their grievance is with Critical Role.
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Jun 26, 2020 18:31
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Malpais Legate posted:That Twitter thread was so loving vague that I still don't even understand what their grievance is with Critical Role. Apparently he thinks he should be backpaid for that four months of volunteer work or something. Oh and this was all done via e-mails and Discord so in no way was any of this professional-level communication. Crazy Ted fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 26, 2020 |
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Jun 26, 2020 18:35
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Wasn't their harassment the reason behind Matt's gently stern "stop it" message in the pre-show? Don't know which episode.
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Jun 26, 2020 18:39
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Dexo posted:It's incredibly not skeevy to start to ask to be paid for something that people get paid for that you have been doing for free. Nobody is saying that. What we're saying it's skeevy to feel like you're entitled to a job just because you volunteered your services in the past, then going on a twitter rant trying to get them in trouble when it doesn't work out the way you want. If CR actually hired them then it's another matter, but by their admission that's not the case.
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Jun 26, 2020 18:43
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Just seen a thread on twitter from someone saying that twitter user is bad because of tonnes of stuff so i guess the CR fandom is going to go bananas in some form for a bit lmao
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Jun 26, 2020 18:51
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Crazy Ted posted:Fandoms: Not even once Honestly, this, right here. The last fandom I was involved in as a *fan* was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I don't know if anyone remembers the old official forum, The Bronze, for Buffy, but it was where I really started posting online. And it devolved into the same insane bullshit every fandom devolves into, because when you create something entertaining and fun, you're going to attract humans. And humans can be absolute shitheads. And it splinters and fractions and drives people to one side or another and there will be assholes on all sides, even the "right" side because some people are just assholes, even if they are an rear end in a top hat for a good cause. And until we can correct that behavior, just DON'T BE A loving rear end in a top hat YOU SHITHEADS, it will always happen that way. But assholes are loud and annoying and the majority of people are very conflict-adverse, so it's the assholes on both sides that run the conversations. Note, I'm specifically talking about fandoms here, not any other group of people. Fandoms are the loving worst.
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Jun 26, 2020 19:22
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Lucas Archer posted:Honestly, this, right here. The last fandom I was involved in as a *fan* was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I don't know if anyone remembers the old official forum, The Bronze, for Buffy, but it was where I really started posting online. And it devolved into the same insane bullshit every fandom devolves into, because when you create something entertaining and fun, you're going to attract humans. And humans can be absolute shitheads. And it splinters and fractions and drives people to one side or another and there will be assholes on all sides, even the "right" side because some people are just assholes, even if they are an rear end in a top hat for a good cause. And until we can correct that behavior, just DON'T BE A loving rear end in a top hat YOU SHITHEADS, it will always happen that way. But assholes are loud and annoying and the majority of people are very conflict-adverse, so it's the assholes on both sides that run the conversations. Case in point: The time Voltron fans threatened to burn down the animation studio unless they made their ship of choice canon.
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Jun 26, 2020 19:38
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Dexo posted:It's incredibly not skeevy to start to ask to be paid for something that people get paid for that you have been doing for free. If you suddenly do a bunch of work for free that nobody asked for and then begin demanding payment after the fact, you’re a dipshit. Sorry to bust in on your stoplight squeegee hustle.
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Jun 26, 2020 19:47
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I think the pandemic did more brains in than any other 21st century event other than 9/11, as there's been more drama per day in the last 5 months than any other point I can reasonably remember.
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Jun 26, 2020 19:53
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2020, not even once
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Jun 26, 2020 19:57
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chitoryu12 posted:If you suddenly do a bunch of work for free that nobody asked for and then begin demanding payment after the fact, you’re a dipshit. Sorry to bust in on your stoplight squeegee hustle. What the gently caress are you talking about They didn't demand, they asked to be brought on and to start being compensated for the work they were doing. It doesn't even sound like they were asking to be retroactively paid. If they were actually putting in the work and doing video conferences with CR on these issues for months then it is extremely not being a dipshit to say hey maybe we could be brought on or work out some kind of deal to do this long term. It was or would have been extremely fair for CR to bow out at that point. Or whatever. But gently caress the notion that one shouldn't be able to be asked to be paid if they are performing work that companies pay people do do for them. One should never be ashamed to ask to be compensated for their work. When I was way younger I used to help or fix my friends or friends of family's PCs for free, at some point I realized I didn't want to do it for free anymore so I started charging people some got mad because I suddenly realized that what I was doing is a valuable service.
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Jun 26, 2020 20:05
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Mywhatacleanturtle posted:Case in point: The time Voltron fans threatened to burn down the animation studio unless they made their ship of choice canon. what the gently caress I've never seen an episode of the new Voltron so I had no idea about this but you're right it proves the point. Holy gently caress, it's a fictional show about giant robot lions loving calm the gently caress down. Jesus christ.
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Jun 26, 2020 20:13
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Dexo posted:What the gently caress are you talking about Again, we're not faulting the person for asking to be compenated for future work. I'm also not accusing them of asking to be paid retroactively or anything. It's all perfectly fine up until that point. I mean, plenty of artists, for example, got paying gigs that way, including at CR. What we're suspicious about is that it seems that when CR bowed out at that point, they're now accusing CR of all kinds of lovely things. Seems like not being able to cope with a combination of the harassment they're receiving as well as the disappointment of things not working out the way they want at best, and vindictive at worst. Also doesn't seem unreasonable to cut ties with someone when they start asking compensation, especially when that contact would be a huge part of the work. If CR declines to hire them as a sensitivity consultant, then it's only fair they also stop talking to them about those issues because that would be exactly what they'd pay them for had they hired them. To use your example, it'd be like you would start charging people, then when someone declined your services you'd demand to be let in the house to look at their computer regardless. That's what's happening here. Your family friend that you've helped with their computer declined your help once there was a pricetag involved, maybe because they'd want an actual professional if they were paying for it anyway, and now you're standing outside their house calling them lovely people because they won't use your servives anymore. Meanwhile there's viruses on the computer, sure, but that's not really the issue. Taeke fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jun 26, 2020 |
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Jun 26, 2020 20:30
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Okay I was wrong about him demanding to be retroactively paid, but poo poo he's so vague about everything can you blame me? He has a "team" but doesn't name anybody, talks about emails/discords/videos but doesn't show evidence of anything, and of the supposedly "dozens" of instances of bigotry the cast has engaged in almost all of it is stuff that just kind of makes you go "huh???". If you're going to make that kind of an accusation, you'd better have receipts ready. Crazy Ted fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 26, 2020 |
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Jun 26, 2020 20:43
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Stop expanding this to be beyond my problem with one person's post about this thing, that hits a nerve because it's how a ton of people are treated online in creative/consulting spaces. I don't know what the gently caress is going on with this person's claims, I don't know what actually happened. I'm not really commenting on that at all. I too would like to see more or some more proof about these conversations. But in general my qualms in my post was only in relation to Crazy Ted posted:He apparently had issues with treatment of minority groups in the CR community as well as issues with the show, reached out, volunteered advice, was listened to, after four months wanted to start being paid, and at that point discussion ended. Which you admitted you inferred incorrectly. So thanks jng2058 posted:Okay, on one hand I get the whole "if you're good at something, never do it for free" idea. Everyone's gotta make a buck to live in America. And this. It's never Skeevy to ask to be compensated for a service you are providing. My response has only been to that specific and incredibly toxic line of thinking. If it doesn't apply to you then it doesn't apply to you. Like people called them out for using fans to do their episode transcription. Who they were exploiting for said work. And they changed their policy and hired a service after people brought it up.
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Jun 26, 2020 21:51
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NowonSA posted:I assumed that some whitewashed art was part of the art breaks they run before the stream and during the intermission, and that was the complaint. I wouldn't say there's a "good" way to whitewash a character, but fanart of a d&d character has to be about as close as you can get to that not being an issue. It's an artist's attempt to create a character based on a brief physical description, and by the way that character may not look anything like the actor who's playing them, including having different skin color, height, and a different gender or gender identity. I definitely remember some of the artists I follow complaining about things that get featured in the art roll. Beau seemed to be focal point as far as characters whose skin tone was off the mark. The challenge is that it’s really hard to separate out a legitimate issue from people just being upset that their art didn’t get picked (or that people they didn’t care for keep getting picked).
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Jun 26, 2020 21:57
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Dexo posted:Stop expanding this to be beyond my problem with one person's post about this thing, that hits a nerve because it's how a ton of people are treated online in creative/consulting spaces. Can you please pay me for responding to your post?
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Jun 26, 2020 22:00
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RC Cola posted:Can you please pay me for responding to your post? Nope I will not. I do plan to hire a professional reply service to positively reply to all my posts though.
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Jun 26, 2020 22:02
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Dexo posted:Nope I will not. Sounds good, I will continue to just post for free then, thanks!
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Jun 26, 2020 22:03
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