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priznat posted:Also I hate m.2 on anything other than a laptop. now thats the kinda badpinion i crave from a message board
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Jun 24, 2020 19:16
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It is hard won from sticking dozens of optane 16GB modules on aic adapters and those loving screws... Tiny stupid stubby screws!! Gah I hate them. Motherboard makers who use the plastic retention clips are the best  u supermicro
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Jun 24, 2020 19:19
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priznat posted:The form factor is the worst! Give me aic or u.2 anyday. i will grant you that its perhaps not an ideal shape against a desktop mobo otoh, running a cable.
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Jun 24, 2020 19:19
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Just do an aic form factor, pcie slot, done. Lots of room for extra caps for power event handling and oodles of nand. Better thermals too. Taking something designed with size constraints and using it someplace that doesn’t have those constraints is silly imo. Manufacturers love m.2 though because they can crank them out for both mobile and desktop users so that’s what we’ll get 
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Jun 24, 2020 19:23
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priznat posted:It is hard won from sticking dozens of optane 16GB modules on aic adapters and those loving screws... Tiny stupid stubby screws!! Gah I hate them. If one would have to do this every day, especially on an already built PC, yes I agree, those little screws can be annoying. Though, I presume that if one has to do this every day, then said one would equip himself/herself with some magnetic screwdrivers or some other tools to make life easier. But since normal people don't have to change their M2 drives very often, it's not a problem for more than 10 minutes.
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Jun 24, 2020 19:25
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I feel pretty neutral about m2 drives on desktops but that is likely because the only time I've ever installed them is on my new build where I put them in before I installed the GPU. It would be a pain in the rear end to do now, but as part of the initial build process it was fine.
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Jun 24, 2020 19:32
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We really just need more pcie add in boards that let us put 4 or 8 m2 drives in one 4x or 8x slot. Daddy needs him some nvme software raid. Like 10 tb of software raid.
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Jun 24, 2020 19:35
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I feel pretty neutral about m2 drives on desktops but that is likely because the only time I've ever installed them is on my new build where I put them in before I installed the GPU. It would be a pain in the rear end to do now, but as part of the initial build process it was fine. Same. In terms of a fresh build the m2 was way less hassle. Stick in, screw in, done. Plus it's not like regular drives have been hassle-free for me in any circumstance. I wanted to stick a new SSD in an old build and my GPU was blocking all the SATA ports. Idiot me totally forgot where to press to release the PCIE slot for way too long and spent a bunch of time worrying I was about to break something. Then I forgot to hook up power to the drive because I was thinking "oh that's like, what you had to do for older drives." Also cable management. I'm so happy my current case has really nice cable management by basically banishing all the PSU cords into the basement. Downside was threading the main mobo power felt like I was on the verge of making the cable bend in a way it shouldn't. in other words less cables is more good.
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Jun 24, 2020 19:43
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:We really just need more pcie add in boards that let us put 4 or 8 m2 drives in one 4x or 8x slot. Agreed — all it takes a PCIe switch! Also — obviously the forums are on fire to some degree, if you want to post about it, check this out here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3929022
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Jun 24, 2020 19:47
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I'm just waiting for someone to have a truly beautiful take in the AMD thread like, "ruler form factor is good." Cause that's the kind of day we're having on these fair forums.
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Jun 24, 2020 19:54
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movax posted:Agreed — all it takes a PCIe switch!  https://highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/series-ssd7101a-1-overview.htm
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Jun 24, 2020 20:01
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Now we just need the PEX8896 (or w/e they call it) 96 lane PCIe 4.0 switch to bandwidth bridge to PCIe 3.0 NVMe drives because that's still going to be so loving fast.
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Jun 24, 2020 20:03
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I really want it, but I also wanna pay rent this month 
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Jun 24, 2020 20:05
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drat, RAID 0 on 4 M2s that should be quite the (theoretical) speed. And it's "only" CDN$ 562.91 on amazon. I would have expected it to be quite much more, but at this price I can dream about it.
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Jun 24, 2020 20:15
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movax posted:Now we just need the PEX8896 (or w/e they call it) 96 lane PCIe 4.0 switch to bandwidth bridge to PCIe 3.0 NVMe drives because that's still going to be so loving fast. PFX PM40100 you mean  Also make sure to manually set the slot for “preferred IO” given that this is the AMD thread 
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Jun 24, 2020 20:22
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Does anyone have any idea when x570 boards will return to something resembling availability/price sanity? I have the upgrade itch.
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Jun 24, 2020 21:27
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The current rule of PC building is: Case, board, CPU, ram, power supply, storage. Four of these six things will be in stock this week. The other two aren't. I would expect AMD to be pushing a stock refresh around the time of the XT launch but I'd set you some Newegg alerts if what you have isn't up and on sale from them.
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Jun 24, 2020 22:00
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Stock levels are fine this side of the Atlantic.
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Jun 24, 2020 23:02
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Crossposted from the laptop thread:Hadlock posted:re: intel vs amd quote:That makes complete sense from a business and an architectural point of view, but while it's something Piednoël says was always under consideration by Apple, he believes if the company hadn't found so many issues within the Skylake architecture it would still be onboard the Intel chip train. It was the straw that broke the Apple's back, so to speak. Intel ruining things for AMD too. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jun 25, 2020 |
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Jun 25, 2020 20:09
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I take this to mean that Intel is also going bananas on the new corporate fad of asphyxiating quality assurance and control resources in the name of improving project timelines and decreasing development costs in the short term with zero thought towards the long term and non-obvious consequences of doing that? I guess they aren't wrong that there are no (documented) bugs if you don't test 
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Jun 25, 2020 21:19
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Fabulousity posted:I take this to mean that Intel is also going bananas on the new corporate fad of asphyxiating quality assurance and control resources in the name of improving project timelines and decreasing development costs in the short term with zero thought towards the long term and non-obvious consequences of doing that? "All these QA assholes do is bring me problems. I don't wanna hear about problems, I wanna hear about solutions!" *Fires half of them in a fit of pique*. **3 years later spongebob meme** "What do you mean all our products have horrible, terrible no good very bad bugs in them? What is QA even doing?" *Fires the rest of them, outsources it*
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Jun 25, 2020 21:33
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Fabulousity posted:I take this to mean that Intel is also going bananas on the new corporate fad of asphyxiating quality assurance and control resources in the name of improving project timelines and decreasing development costs in the short term with zero thought towards the long term and non-obvious consequences of doing that? All this testing just keeps finding more cases!
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Jun 25, 2020 23:37
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Silicon validation is highly disrespected. People outside the industry think you just run benchmarks and game demos over and over again as a low level entry job. companies in the industry hate you because you're the guy holding up release and demand a huge amount of resources that can't be monetized or productized so it's just pure money down the drain to them. Program managers hate it because it either generates noise/false flags or finds weird corner cases they don't even know will translate into customer visible instead of giving them a big clear red light or green light on release Then an escape happens and all of a sudden it's about quality and not wanting to damage the company's reputation and we need to figure out how this happened WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jun 26, 2020 |
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Jun 26, 2020 01:55
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Geez guys, it's not like planes are falling out of the sky because of it.
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Jun 26, 2020 01:57
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WhyteRyce posted:Silicon validation is highly disrespected. People outside the industry think you just run benchmarks and game demos over and over again as a low level entry job. companies in the industry hate you because you're the guy holding up release and demand a huge amount of resources that can't be monetized or productized so it's just pure money down the drain to them. Program managers hate it because it either generates noise/false flags or finds weird corner cases they don't even know will translate into customer visible instead of giving them a big clear red light or green light on release Lol so goddamn accurate. The other problem is the amount of legacy poo poo that gets built up and no one can ever make the call to have a clean break or update things because it would require a resource investment for something that currently “works”.
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Jun 26, 2020 07:04
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priznat posted:It is hard won from sticking dozens of optane 16GB modules on aic adapters and those loving screws... Tiny stupid stubby screws!! Gah I hate them. This is why god created the magnetic head screwdriver
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Jun 26, 2020 09:17
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Adventures with Das Frankenputer continues. Do I still need to microcode update or run a Ryzen-specific power plan, or is Windows aware enough that such things are un-necessary?orcane posted:According to that BIOS release list on their website they only dropped Bristol Ridge support when they added Ryzen 3000 (Zen 2) support, no mention of dropping Zen 1 CPUs so you should be able to just use the latest BIOS (but it won't really do much because there haven't been any Zen 1 improvements in AGESA for ages, but you'd be prepared for a hypothetical Ryzen 3950X I'm still gonna take every motherboard stability improvement they deign to give me. Also, in case anyone wonders, they made it fit by ripping out the pretty mouse-driven UEFI GUI and replaced it with a much more spartan UEFI GUI.
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Jun 27, 2020 06:56
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I'm still gonna take every motherboard stability improvement they deign to give me. Also, in case anyone wonders, they made it fit by ripping out the pretty mouse-driven UEFI GUI and replaced it with a much more spartan UEFI GUI. MSI board? I think that nice greyscale BIOS is much nicer than the RGB mess with glowing buttons that comes as standard. I'd be happy if they were all like that vv Argus monitor, great piece of software HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jun 27, 2020 |
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Jun 27, 2020 09:54
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HalloKitty posted:MSI board? I think that nice greyscale BIOS is much nicer than the RGB mess with glowing buttons that comes as standard. I'd be happy if they were all like that Only thing I miss is the visual fan curve, which made setting fan speeds much easier.
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Jun 27, 2020 21:11
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I got a Ryzen 3600 for 1080p60 gaming and I'm using the stock cooler but I've noticed that while running CPU intensive programs the CPU gets hot (up to 85 Celsius while running Cinebench; low to mid 70s Celsius while gaming) even with the CPU and case fans at full speed. Should I be worried? I looked at the specs for the 3600 on AMD's website and it says the max temp is 95C. This is also my first AMD system since my old Athlon 64 X2 3800 system way back in 2005-2008 and if I remember correctly that chip ran kinda hot under load as well so do AMD chips still run hot?
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Jun 28, 2020 21:01
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spasticColon posted:I got a Ryzen 3600 for 1080p60 gaming and I'm using the stock cooler but I've noticed that while running CPU intensive programs the CPU gets hot (up to 85 Celsius while running Cinebench; low to mid 70s Celsius while gaming) even with the CPU and case fans at full speed. Should I be worried? I looked at the specs for the 3600 on AMD's website and it says the max temp is 95C. The chiplet design tends to result in weird heat clustering that levels off over time, but the main issue is that the 3600’s stock cooler isn’t very good. You aren’t endangering the chip, but plopping a better cooler onto it would lower load temps and be quieter to boot.
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Jun 28, 2020 21:07
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Adventures with Das Frankenputer continues. Do I still need to microcode update or run a Ryzen-specific power plan, or is Windows aware enough that such things are un-necessary? You don't need to run a Ryzen-specific power plan, windows is now aware of how ryzen works and the defaults are fine. You get the Ryzen Balanced plan included when you install the chipset drivers, use it if you want. Even the 1ismus is just some small differences that are no more than a 1% change up or down in resulting performance. spasticColon posted:I got a Ryzen 3600 for 1080p60 gaming and I'm using the stock cooler but I've noticed that while running CPU intensive programs the CPU gets hot (up to 85 Celsius while running Cinebench; low to mid 70s Celsius while gaming) even with the CPU and case fans at full speed. Should I be worried? I looked at the specs for the 3600 on AMD's website and it says the max temp is 95C. That's normal for the stock cooler. They don't thermal throttle until 95, but that's still safe -- the CPU is faster at cutting power than the heat is at damaging anything. And no, AMD chips are actually cool compared to intel these days! Intel raised their TJmax to 100C because they're so hot. Modern silicon can get pretty drat hot before it hurts itself.
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Jun 28, 2020 21:11
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I finished a Ryzen 3600 + ASUS ROG B550-F build but there's something funky going on with my system. At system idle, the CPU temp will jump around 10 degrees every few seconds. This causes the system fans to ramp up, but the temp settles back towards it's normal idle temp then spikes again. On task manager my GPU speed keeps fluctuating, hovering around the 3.9 / 4.0 GHz range. Any ideas as to where I can look, or is this something I'll have to plan my fan speeds around?
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Jun 29, 2020 08:01
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Hasturtium posted:The chiplet design tends to result in weird heat clustering that levels off over time, but the main issue is that the 3600’s stock cooler isn’t very good. You aren’t endangering the chip, but plopping a better cooler onto it would lower load temps and be quieter to boot. I'm currently planning to build a PC with a 3600 and this 'stock cooler isn't very good' sentiment seems to be a universal constant when discussing it. I was a bit oblivious to the concept of CPU coolers before this build so trying to get my head around what is/isn't necessary. I'm keen on keeping noise down under load and not having temperature hamstring it's effectiveness but I'm decidedly mid-range when it comes to PC parts. In the PC Builder thread sean10mm's put up a suggested build for a 3700x with a Noctua NH-U14S (~$65/£60). Does that sound like a solid choice? I've seen a few mentions of adding coolers that are half that price but I'm a bit skeptical that something which is <$30/£30 is going to be all that good. And on a tangent is the stock cooler with the 3700x any good or is replacing that cooler recommended too? If I got something like the Noctua I'm already 2/3rds of the way through the price difference to that CPU...
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Jun 29, 2020 09:51
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kimcicle posted:I finished a Ryzen 3600 + ASUS ROG B550-F build but there's something funky going on with my system. At system idle, the CPU temp will jump around 10 degrees every few seconds. This causes the system fans to ramp up, but the temp settles back towards it's normal idle temp then spikes again. On task manager my GPU speed keeps fluctuating, hovering around the 3.9 / 4.0 GHz range. Any ideas as to where I can look, or is this something I'll have to plan my fan speeds around? Zen 2 desktop ryzens boost to max clock like an over-excited puppy, even when the system is idle. The boost is for a very short amount of time before realizing that no, there's no real work to do... but since they control the fan based on the hottest core temp that makes them spin up the fan. There are two ways to manage this with fan speed controls: 1. raise the low-temp fan speeds so that the cooler is working harder even at idle and absorbs the heat spikes better, but it's louder 2. push the ramp to high fan speed to higher temps such that the +10C momentary boosts don't trigger fan ramp, but you lose a hair of performance since it's hotter 3. get a cheap 120mm tower cooler Fwoderwick posted:I'm currently planning to build a PC with a 3600 and this 'stock cooler isn't very good' sentiment seems to be a universal constant when discussing it. I was a bit oblivious to the concept of CPU coolers before this build so trying to get my head around what is/isn't necessary. I'm keen on keeping noise down under load and not having temperature hamstring it's effectiveness but I'm decidedly mid-range when it comes to PC parts. The stock cooler is adequate because it keeps the CPU from throttling, you will not lose any performance from it. It's not very good from a perspective of noise. Now keep in mind that many intel stock coolers don't even accomplish the throttling part. So from that standpoint the stock AMD sinks are pretty good. But stock sinks are cheap and the way they engineer to cost is to have 2k RPM fans that are loud. A cheap $30 120mm cooler is fine for a 3600. My experience with an arctic 33 (on a 1600X, about the same TDP-wise) is that it never needed more than 1200rpm for prime95, and in games generally was just a bit above 1000rpm. Not whisper-quiet but not at all annoying. They don't have the idle-boost problem that the stock cooler has, because heat pipes are good at absorbing spikes. And you can turn on PBO to get some OC if you want. OTOH the noctua U14S on a 3600 or 3700X will be pretty quiet even when the CPU is running flat out & OCed. That's what you get for twice the money. If silence is a priority it's a good investment. The noctua U14S gets suggested with the 3700X because if you've picked a 3700X rather than a 3600 that suggests you have some discretionary budget for luxuries. Fwoderwick posted:And on a tangent is the stock cooler with the 3700x any good or is replacing that cooler recommended too? If I got something like the Noctua I'm already 2/3rds of the way through the price difference to that CPU... The stock cooler that comes with a 3700X is, well, it would be well paired for a 3600. On the 3700X, which has 2 more cores and is hotter than a 3600, it's still loud under load. It has heatpipes, which mean it can deal with transient spikes much better. I would still want a real heatsink.
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Jun 29, 2020 10:50
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Awesome, thanks for the detailed response and lower priced suggestion. I'm still weighing up what total cost I'm happy with as I'm a miser at heart but will spend more for a quality mid-range product if it's a good investment. I like what I've read about the Noctua performance and aftercare, but will read up about the Arctic in case I'm just getting caught up in the excitement of it all and overspeccing for my needs.
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Jun 29, 2020 12:44
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Klyith posted:That's normal for the stock cooler. They don't thermal throttle until 95, but that's still safe -- the CPU is faster at cutting power than the heat is at damaging anything.
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Jun 29, 2020 14:31
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Klyith posted:Zen 2 desktop ryzens boost to max clock like an over-excited puppy, even when the system is idle. The boost is for a very short amount of time before realizing that no, there's no real work to do... but since they control the fan based on the hottest core temp that makes them spin up the fan. Thanks for the reply. I'm not using the stock cooler, and it looks like only the chassis fans were spinning up so I'll mess with the fan curves some more.
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Jun 29, 2020 16:08
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I'm irrationally angry that AMD CPUs did not have AVX2 until Ryzen, because that's two old computers I've built that now can't use virtual greenscreens in Zoom/Teams
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Jun 29, 2020 19:11
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my cpu makes me feel othered
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Jun 29, 2020 19:20
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