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NikkolasKing posted:SJ Chaos has a few interesting things about it that sets it apart from other depictions of Chaos: I think it's meant to be a bit of a paradox, humans created the God that created humans, therefore they existed before humanity despite not existing before humanity. I think it's called an onthological paradox?
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Jun 29, 2020 14:08
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Taintrunner posted:we laugh but SMT is real I'm not sure that was the link you intended to post but 
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Jun 29, 2020 16:31
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Beyond all their claims about nature and stuff, the Schwarzwelt exists as a phenomenon because demons want to be in charge of the world again, so there's not really anything that can be done to make it permanently go away beyond surrendering. With that in mind the new Neutral ending in Redux makes me think of it as less 'humans don't learn' and more mankind being caught in a poo poo situation simply for wanting to be independent.
Justin_Brett fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jun 29, 2020 |
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Jun 29, 2020 16:47
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mandatory lesbian posted:I think it's meant to be a bit of a paradox, humans created the God that created humans, therefore they existed before humanity despite not existing before humanity. I think it's called an onthological paradox? I think SMT YHVH is supposed to be a demiurge, though it may vary from game to game.
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Jun 29, 2020 17:03
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Yeah gnostic teachings are that the Judeo Christian god (YHWH) DID create the universe but ISNT the supreme “God” and that life kinda sucks because he made it. That’s what the Demiurge refers to It sorta ties in with why heaven is leaving the current world and all that I don’t know why so many Japanese pieces of media are super into gnostic teachings tho
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Jun 29, 2020 17:09
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Yeah gnostic teachings are that the Judeo Christian god (YHWH) DID create the universe but ISNT the supreme “God” and that life kinda sucks because he made it. That’s what the Demiurge refers to Its cool
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Jun 29, 2020 18:26
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Yeah gnostic teachings are that the Judeo Christian god (YHWH) DID create the universe but ISNT the supreme “God” and that life kinda sucks because he made it. That’s what the Demiurge refers to It was everywhere in the 90s and early 2000s. Matrix, DaVinci Code, probably many other notable examples. Apart from just being interesting, it represents the 'lost" Christianity, the Christianity that was stamped out by the ruthless authoritarian Christianity that came to dominate the Western World for centuries. The Bible is a great example of "history is written by the winners." There's also how the element of the Sacred Feminine was very important to most so-called "Gnostic" sects. The True God isn't a woman - isn't really anything in most of the literature I've read, more like the Neoplatonic One which is beyond all characterizations like woman or benevolence - but possibly the savior of mankind is a woman among other high-ranking female deities. This appealed to a lot of people for obvious reasons.It gave women a place equal to men in the cosmic way of things. But yeah, overall it just has some very interesting mythology and themes. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jun 29, 2020 |
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Jun 29, 2020 18:42
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Ellie was the best non-Ulala party member in EP and I was sad when we got Sad Tatsuya as a party member instead of her. I think one of many reasons I prefer IS is that it was so much better when Tatsuya didn't talk and Maya was being sassy instead of Maya just making distressed lady faces and Tatsuya being mopey. He might have perfectly good reasons to be mopey but Maya was way, way better when she talked. They took teh character with arguably the most personality and charisma in IS and...got rid of it.
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Jun 29, 2020 19:32
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Blank slate MCs have always been a problem since the very start.
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Jun 30, 2020 01:34
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Mraagvpeine posted:Blank slate MCs have always been a problem since the very start. Is there like some good reason that we need to enter a name for the protagonist in Persona games? They all end up with canonical names anyway, I think the dialog would be a lot less weird if they just used the name. "We solved the case, and it's all thanks to [THIS GUY]"
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Jun 30, 2020 01:41
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Because there's some level of self-insertion (especially since you can romance most of the females) so giving them a specific name can help with that if you want. Even other games like Dragon Age also do it, they just use a different stand-in like Warden or Hawke or Inquisitor so it's less awkward.
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Jun 30, 2020 01:54
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I always feel like one of the strengths of (modern) Persona is the freedom of how you invest your time meaning that someone's first playthrough is tangibly different than someone else's, both in gameplay and in narrative experience, thanks to radically different approaches to social links/confidants. I think a nameable protagonist makes even more sense there than it does with most other games that use it (where I also like the option). Yu Narukami may be the 'canonical' P4 protagonist, but that doesn't mean everyone played the 'canonical' P4 route. The guy I named Ashley had quite a different experience from the guy someone else named Charlie.
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Jun 30, 2020 01:58
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I know Japanese doesn't have pronouns, but was Yu's name supposed to work as a pun in Japanese, or was that pun just a happy accident that worked in English?
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Jun 30, 2020 02:11
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Yu isn't even the original "canon" name.
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Jun 30, 2020 02:50
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Yeah it was Souji Seta, which is pretty terrible and nobody uses it now. Whereas people will still debate between Ren and Akira.
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Jun 30, 2020 02:59
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Souji Seta is a good name 
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Jun 30, 2020 03:02
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Nah Souji Seta is still Souji Seta in my heart. I don't know this...'Yu Narukami' person. Pft...what next, people taking away Minato Arisato?
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Jun 30, 2020 03:02
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i think EP would have been best without any silent protag, tbh. both maya and tatsuya are cool, so it sucks that in EP that maya's suddenly quiet now that she's the protag  also yu is a perfectly fine name
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Jun 30, 2020 03:06
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The only canon protag name is Charlie Tunoku I used Ralphie Tunoku for P5. He’s Charlie’s brother and has an inexplicable Brooklyn accent.
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Jun 30, 2020 03:56
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In my P5R game the hero is now Virgil Texas.
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Jun 30, 2020 03:57
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Detective No. 27 posted:I know Japanese doesn't have pronouns, but was Yu's name supposed to work as a pun in Japanese, or was that pun just a happy accident that worked in English? I dunno but if you take Yuu as You and the base hiragana of his last name Narukami you can get something like You the God or thereabouts Another possible take on it is his last name being based on his Izanagi lightning element since kaminari is Japanese for thunder/lightning and you just swap the bits around to get Narukami
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Jun 30, 2020 05:08
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I’ve been using Memento Mori since P3’s intro flashed that all over the screen. Bonus that Mori is an actual Japanese name But P5 solves the name problem by calling the MC Joker. Less awkward than Senpai or Big Bro or whatever
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Jun 30, 2020 05:16
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Karl Marx originally seized the means of production as a Phantom Thief, and then Leon Trotsky fought against counterrevolutionary sentiment that came in the suspiciously named Royal edition.
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Jun 30, 2020 05:29
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Perfect Potato posted:I dunno but if you take Yuu as You and the base hiragana of his last name Narukami you can get something like You the God or thereabouts Chad Thundergod
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Jun 30, 2020 05:44
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I kinda like that even though the Wild Cards can all use any Persona or whatever, there's still some 'default' elemental identity based on their original Personas which is reinforced via Arena and Q. P3MC is Fire, P4MC is Lightning, and Joker is Curse. When I go play P4G I'm gonna be kinda sad that there's no Kouga/Eiga spells there, it's just Hama/Mudo or bust.
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Jun 30, 2020 06:28
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"Minato Arisato" and "Souji Seta" were never even slightly "canonical", they were used in manga adaptations which are outsourced with little involvement from Atlus and are just the manga artists' personal takes on the characters, you might as well use the stage plays' names ("Sakuya Shiomi" and "Hayato Asakawa" respectively). For better or worse "Yuki Makoto" and "Yu Narukami" are the only ones actually endorsed by the developers and used in actual games created in-house. I personally don't mind blank state protagonists although I wish they'd use characterized MCs once in a while to spice things up, there's no reason for Serph or Raidou to be silent protagonists when you hardly have any room to roleplay yourself or whatever.
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Jun 30, 2020 08:00
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Minato Arisato is a better name for P3MC than Makoto Yuki, IMO
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Jun 30, 2020 08:08
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The problem is that in Persona Q you have a limit of six characters for the first/last names, so 'Arisato' and 'Narukami' won't fit. My get around is to use 'Yu Dojima' for P4MC, since after the events of P4 he might as well be family (I mean, he is by blood, but y'know).
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Jun 30, 2020 09:51
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Consider how much simpler this would be if they just gave people default names. Like if you insist on having them be namable characters in a world of constant voice acting, ok, but at least give us a default answer so that every single adaptation doesn't need to make up a new name. They've given us canon names for them anyway in the spinoffs, so why not just give it to us a couple of years sooner?
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Jun 30, 2020 09:54
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i name them all raidou kuzunoha atlus please bring my boy home
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Jun 30, 2020 09:57
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I like Minato, which later give us Minako. What I'm saying is where are the FeMC options for newer Persona titles.
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Jun 30, 2020 10:11
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My guess is it saves a lot of budget? Every line would have to be changed and voice acted to say 'she' or 'her', and then all the coding for the respective romances because they still won't get us bisexual romances, the cowards. P3P may have been easier to code, I don't know.
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Jun 30, 2020 10:15
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Yeah, plus whole new scenes would have to be created. FeMC's Valentine's day would be completely different and probably be way better than having all your waifus finding out that you're cheating on them. Otherwise idk man. P5R kinda felt like a waste of my money. They couldn't spend actual money and development time making something more memorable and different like P3P?
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Jun 30, 2020 10:58
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ApplesandOranges posted:My guess is it saves a lot of budget? Every line would have to be changed and voice acted to say 'she' or 'her' Not really, just have the voices use the gender neutral they, and if you really want to, have the subtitles use he / she. When you make a game with a blank slate protagonist of that type, there is very little reason not to make gender an option.
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Jun 30, 2020 11:57
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I mean, think of Royal less like a P3P and more like a FES/Golden, which is what it is. It was also probably WAY cheaper to make than an entire alternate route which would require significant changes to a lot of the Confidants, maybe even all of them, not to mention alterations to the base plot itself in several instances. Like just for starters the Kamoshida plot would almost CERTAINLY have to play out somewhat differently for a FeMC. It's not nearly as easy to replace Joker as it was to replace the P3 protag, because he was WAY more of a blank slate.
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Jun 30, 2020 12:03
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It wouldn’t be so bad if PQ2 wasn’t literally the first and only game to recognize FeMC’s existence, besides a single palette swap for Labrys.
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Jun 30, 2020 12:08
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Game dev is hard, and this is definitely from poor management but a lot of Royal felt like it should've been in the base game, honestly.
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Jun 30, 2020 12:25
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i think pretty clearly the only reason they put in a protagonist choice into portable was because it has a 100% visual novel presentation with no character animation, so they could get away with radically different scenes for a lot of the game without a whole lot of work involved.
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Jun 30, 2020 13:59
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I'm pretty sure the explicit reason they put in Minako is because they had to make the presentation cuts they did and then were left with a massive abundance of space and the realization that if they didn't add something substantial to the game in return it would suck and no one would buy it.
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Jun 30, 2020 14:01
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Adding a female MC to P5 would probably require them to alter Kamoshida’s interactions with her and I’m not sure I want to see how that would play out.
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Jun 30, 2020 14:15
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