|
Necrothatcher posted:I wrote up some longer-form thoughts if anyone's interested: https://pixelhunted.wordpress.com/2020/06/30/the-last-of-us-part-ii-ps4-2020/ this is good. also lol checking out your arcade reviews got me annoyed theres no decent arcades up here in the north, other than maybe sheffield video game museum but that hardly counts.
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 17:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 12:54 |
|
|
Vikar Jerome posted:this is good. also lol checking out your arcade reviews got me annoyed theres no decent arcades up here in the north, other than maybe sheffield video game museum but that hardly counts. The Arcade Clubs in Bury and Leeds are worth a visit! https://www.arcadeclub.co.uk/games/
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 17:15
|
|
|
Mulva posted:Hi, when someone starts out with "This is one of the best games ever made", the only places you can go are "I agree" or "This is how you are wrong". I'm all for everyone having their own opinion and I don't even expect everyone to like it, but I have been really unimpressed with most people's criticisms of the game to say the least.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 17:35
|
|
|
Necrothatcher posted:The Arcade Clubs in Bury and Leeds are worth a visit! looks like i got post lockdown visit planned. Vikar Jerome fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jun 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 17:45
|
|
|
Phew, done. That was really, really great. Need to compile my thoughts but I really don't get the suggestions that the ending is bleak or hopeless. I thought it was quite the opposite.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 19:29
|
|
|
In one of the interviews they mentioned some of the things that changed/didn't make it into the game (though I'm sure there were tens if not hundreds more). Spoilered just in case, don't read if you haven't finished the game! Joel had girlfriend, Ellie goes to the Seraphite island, Ellie kills Abby in the end, during the farm sequence there's a whole side thing where Ellie goes and kills a boar, this was even mo-capped and stuff, Joel says Sarah before he dies instead of not saying anything
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 19:33
|
|
|
lordfrikk posted:In one of the interviews they mentioned some of the things that changed/didn't make it into the game (though I'm sure there were tens if not hundreds more). Spoilered just in case, don't read if you haven't finished the game! the only one of those I'd be interested in is Ellie going to the island
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 19:46
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I feel like with 2LOU ND might be the first studio to make a horse mechanic that even approaches the level of quality of Agro from Shadow of the Colossus. It only took 15 years. I greatly prefer the video game superhorse that loyally tries to follow close to you but not get in your way and doesn't have a mind of its own like Agro, personally. I was glad it stayed largely the same but could jump barbed wire from a standstill. I think this game's a lot better played blind. It's probably not gonna get people as well in the future with all the spoilers are out and the story looks dumb in the cliffnotes version.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 19:47
|
|
|
morallyobjected posted:the only one of those I'd be interested in is Ellie going to the island I don't see what that would've added though. The Seraphites have nothing to do with Ellie's story, beyond her encountering them a few times because they happen to be where she is. A big part of what made Abby's segment so interesting is that she had her own poo poo to deal with beyond Ellie's obsessive vendetta. If Ellie was dealing with that same conflict at the same time it would've taken from that. Also holy lol looking at the spoiler thread the leaks were even dumber than I thought (and mostly seem to have been guesswork based on the trailers).
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 19:50
|
|
|
stev posted:I don't see what that would've added though. The Seraphites have nothing to do with Ellie's story, beyond her encountering them a few times because they happen to be where she is. I'm not saying I think the game needed it--just out of all of those, it sounded like the only one that could have maybe went somewhere. I thought maybe when I was early in the game that Abby was already on the island and Ellie would have to get out there and find her, possibly having to momentarily fight against a common enemy in the process I think what we got was way better than that though
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 19:55
|
|
|
stev posted:I don't see what that would've added though. The Seraphites have nothing to do with Ellie's story, beyond her encountering them a few times because they happen to be where she is. The idea was to let you see the Seraphites at peace in their typical daily routine, to help flesh them out. It would've been a nice thing to include somehow. As it stands TLOU2 only gives us secondhand glimpses of Seraphite culture from the inside, through dialogue with Lev and Yara, and the written prayers you can read at shrines. But yeah it sounds like they couldn't find a way to justify including it in Ellie's half of the story, so cutting it was probably the right call.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 20:30
|
|
|
Returning to my replay of HZD is funny after playing this because the human enemies just seem so dumb lol.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 21:28
|
|
|
This is the first time I've read reviews for a game in a while and man most of the ones for this have the point sailing blissfully right over the critics' heads. The Vice Magazine review claims that: "Nobody ever reconsiders their quest for vengeance." uhm Necrothatcher fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jun 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 22:11
|
|
|
Necrothatcher posted:This is the first time I've read reviews for a game in a while and man most of the ones for this have the point sailing blissfully right over the critics' heads. The Vice Magazine review claims that: Ellie does, but do we ever have Abby reflect on hers? I just beat this the other day so my recollection may be flawed. Definitely lining up an NG+ play through.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 22:22
|
|
|
Anti-Hero posted:Ellie does, but do we ever have Abby reflect on hers? I just beat this the other day so my recollection may be flawed. Definitely lining up an NG+ play through. Yes, Abby walks away after the theater.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 22:23
|
|
|
Necrothatcher posted:Yes, Abby walks away after the theater. Ahhhh, yes. I was more thinking of her quest for vengeance against Joel. IIRC during her play through she never expresses any regret or contrition, or for that matter doesn’t even reflect on it. Mel and others make some offhand comments about their time in Jackson, but the groups focus is on present events. Owen’s disappearance, the impending attack on the Scars, etc. Am I missing anything?
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 22:29
|
|
|
Anti-Hero posted:Am I missing anything? That's what the Vice author should have asked
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
So FILMCRITHULK does game reviews now, and he reviewed TLOU2, which is worth a read if you have like an hour and enjoy over verbose film school analysis applied to a video game: https://www.patreon.com/posts/last-of-us-part-38722226 He makes a lot of points about video game violence that I made, perhaps in a more abrasive and less cogent way, in the other thread that shall not be named
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 22:53
|
|
|
he's always done game reviews, i remember when he did mass effect 3 and i saw people losing their minds over him liking it as is, pre-extended cut.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 23:01
|
|
|
Anti-Hero posted:Ahhhh, yes. I was more thinking of her quest for vengeance against Joel. IIRC during her play through she never expresses any regret or contrition, or for that matter doesn’t even reflect on it. Mel and others make some offhand comments about their time in Jackson, but the groups focus is on present events. Owen’s disappearance, the impending attack on the Scars, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 23:23
|
|
|
One thing that bugged me about the flashbacks is that they attempted to relitigate the ending of TLOU. Since the first game released I hated the idea of a sequel, because the ending was pitch perfect and had some actual subtlety to it (although the correct answer is that Joel was wrong, gently caress Joel). The last scene really recontextualised that for me though. Ellie had allowed herself to believe Joel's lie (the flashbacks sort of imply that she genuinely believed him but leaves room for interpretation) for years. She then had her worst fears confirmed, and suddenly she had to face all of these questions - whether he did the right thing, what it says about their relationship, whether she could have mattered. Then, a year later, she'd finally started to reconcile it all in her head, and the very next day Joel is killed - and she'll never have the closure that'll come with either forgiving or condemning him. I got the impression that her anger went far beyond Joel himself being murdered - it left her without any resolution to the huge issues she was still coming to terms with (and she didn't have goons to discuss it with). While part of me still wishes they'd left well enough alone, I'm glad they found a good way to explore the effects the events of the first game had on Ellie. It's handled far better than I'd have expected. Also it just occurred to me that IIRC the "I'll kill every last one of them" line from the trailers wasn't actually in the game? Or if it was it was far less aggressive and ragey. For a big chunk of the game I was expecting something else to happen that drove Ellie even further into her abyss leading her to that line - like Dina dying or Jackson being hosed up. I wonder if she ever reconnected with Dina and JJ. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 23:44
|
|
|
emoticon posted:So FILMCRITHULK does game reviews now, and he reviewed TLOU2, which is worth a read if you have like an hour and enjoy over verbose film school analysis applied to a video game: It's a good thinkpiece, nicely written, though there's a few things I kind of disagree on. Nice personal read on it though in any case. Also, yet another take on the ending where they don't pick up on the Joel's face thing, which tells me they didn't read the freakin' diaries! 
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 23:44
|
|
|
Dewgy posted:It's a good thinkpiece, nicely written, though there's a few things I kind of disagree on. Nice personal read on it though in any case. The constant sketches of Joel with his eyes scribbled out are so sad It reminds me of the moment you realise you can't quite remember a dead loved one's voice anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 23:51
|
|
|
Dewgy posted:Also, yet another take on the ending where they don't pick up on the Joel's face thing, which tells me they didn't read the freakin' diaries! To be fair, the game undermines the impact of the moment itself thanks to the flashbacks you experience throughout the game. If the first time Ellie saw Joel's unbroken face was also the first time the player saw it as well, I think the moment would have been more profound and conveyed its importance more clearly as well. I'm not suggesting excising Ellie's flashbacks, since those are the best part of the game, but it's one of the many issues created by the game's unusual (some would say poor) structure.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 23:55
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:To be fair, the game undermines the impact of the moment itself thanks to the flashbacks you experience throughout the game. If the first time Ellie saw Joel's unbroken face was also the first time the player saw it as well, I think the moment would have been more profound and conveyed its importance more clearly as well. I can see that. It doesn't really make much of a distinction between what's a flashback the character's experiencing versus a flashback that we the player are going through, apart from just when they happen. I really would love to see a bonus mode where you go through the events and scenes in chronological order. Not the best way to do it the first time, I think the time jumping was a great way to do the narrative, but it'd make a cool extra for repeat playthroughs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 00:05
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:To be fair, the game undermines the impact of the moment itself thanks to the flashbacks you experience throughout the game. If the first time Ellie saw Joel's unbroken face was also the first time the player saw it as well, I think the moment would have been more profound and conveyed its importance more clearly as well. Now I'm imagining a version of the game where Joel's face is meticulously hidden from the camera during every flashback - like Raiden's cocknballs at the end of MGS2.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 00:08
|
|
|
Anti-Hero posted:Ahhhh, yes. I was more thinking of her quest for vengeance against Joel. IIRC during her play through she never expresses any regret or contrition, or for that matter doesn’t even reflect on it. Mel and others make some offhand comments about their time in Jackson, but the groups focus is on present events. Owen’s disappearance, the impending attack on the Scars, etc. She doesn't vocally express regret but she does watch basically all of her friends die because of it. She never seemed to regret actually killing Joel, but she seemed to realize the consequences of it weren't worth it
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 00:17
|
|
|
precision posted:Oh my lord, people Ok now I know you're lying just want to join in on the praise for the museum scene. Ellie imagining taking off in the shuttle to space and knowing everything on either side of that moment in this story made me cry like a baby The ending I didn't want either of them to die. honestly by the end, I didn't want anyone else to loving die. so I guess the game worked on me? I felt exhausted by murder. Then you get back to the farm, and see how much Ellie has lost, trying to play the guitar, ugh, brutal. By the time this game ended I felt relief that it was finally over, and then I immediately started new game+. I dunno how both those feelings can coexist but they DO Donovan Trip fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jul 1, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 00:19
|
|
|
Necrothatcher posted:The Arcade Clubs in Bury and Leeds are worth a visit! Can confirm
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 01:54
|
|
|
I just got to my first human encounters and I've just gotta say: The mechanic where you take a hostage is a bad mechanic. Your captive cannot be disarmed or otherwise rendered less lethal, they and their friends will beg for their lives or try to talk you down, Ellie will tell them not to struggle, and yet they will inevitably try to break out, meaning that the only actual reason to do so is to execute them after a few seconds of pleading for their lives. You can't even subdue or less-lethal-takedown them, it's just Throat Slitting Time after Ellie dangles the prospect of their being spared in front of them. It's a morally abhorrent mechanic (executing a prisoner/using a human shield) masquerading as a less-morally abhorrent mechanic (taking a prisoner). I don't think it adds anything to the game, enemies will try to shoot around your hostage anyways, it won't even slow things down because you can't even point the gun at them while you have the hostage taken. I don't really see what it adds to the game beyond a way to feel like a monster. Not to mention that the inevitable attempt to break out feels super videogame-y? Like, enemies never just ...stop fighting. They're afraid, but never enough to be stopped any way short of overkill. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Jul 1, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 02:06
|
|
|
Jetrauben posted:I just got to my first human encounters and I've just gotta say: The mechanic where you take a hostage is a bad mechanic. Your captive cannot be disarmed or otherwise rendered less lethal, they and their friends will beg for their lives or try to talk you down, Ellie will tell them not to struggle, and yet they will inevitably try to break out, meaning that the only actual reason to do so is to execute them after a few seconds of pleading for their lives. You can't even subdue or less-lethal-takedown them, it's just Throat Slitting Time after Ellie dangles the prospect of their being spared in front of them. Pretty sure it exists SOLELY to make you run all these things through your head
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 02:10
|
|
|
Donovan Trip posted:Pretty sure it exists SOLELY to make you run all these things through your head Yeah, and I don't think that's really a good mechanic. It's, like I said, a feel-bad mechanic masquerading as a less-feel-bad mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 02:11
|
|
|
Jetrauben posted:Yeah, and I don't think that's really a good mechanic. It's, like I said, a feel-bad mechanic masquerading as a less-feel-bad mechanic. That's kind of 2LOU in a nutshell I was thinking about Death Stranding today and how it has a lot of similar themes in that story. A big difference is, as Kōbō Abe's "Nawa" put it, that game is a rope. 2LOU is a stick.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 02:16
|
|
|
Anti-Hero posted:Ahhhh, yes. I was more thinking of her quest for vengeance against Joel. IIRC during her play through she never expresses any regret or contrition, or for that matter doesn’t even reflect on it. Mel and others make some offhand comments about their time in Jackson, but the groups focus is on present events. Owen’s disappearance, the impending attack on the Scars, etc. The way used dreams/nightmares as a plot device made me think Abby dealt with her demons during what culminated in those three days in Seattle. Abby starts off waking up from a mysterious dream that turns out to be a recurring nightmare of the day she found her father dead at the Fireflies hospital. She has that dream a few more times, until eventually (I think after she saved Yara's life?) it turns into the most ideal pleasant memory her brain can simply muster; her walking into the operating room to find her father alive and smiling at her. I like to think, in that moment, she has a revelation that it's much more rewarding to her psyche to be saving/preserving lives and forgiving transgressions. She does a 180 for just about everything else.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 02:43
|
|
|
Jetrauben posted:I just got to my first human encounters and I've just gotta say: The mechanic where you take a hostage is a bad mechanic. Your captive cannot be disarmed or otherwise rendered less lethal, they and their friends will beg for their lives or try to talk you down, Ellie will tell them not to struggle, and yet they will inevitably try to break out, meaning that the only actual reason to do so is to execute them after a few seconds of pleading for their lives. You can't even subdue or less-lethal-takedown them, it's just Throat Slitting Time after Ellie dangles the prospect of their being spared in front of them. Yes you can, just press 'aim'
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 03:05
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Yes you can, just press 'aim' I meant the hostiles, though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 03:23
|
|
|
Jetrauben posted:I meant the hostiles, though. What? If you grab someone as a human shield, you can pull R2 to shoot them in the head, or hold L2 to aim at other enemies to then shoot them in the head.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 03:24
|
|
|
Dewgy posted:What? If you grab someone as a human shield, you can pull R2 to shoot them in the head, or hold L2 to aim at other enemies to then shoot them in the head. To be fair, I had no idea you could do either of these things until I saw it done in a video clip after having beat the game! They never give you a prompt to do so, so I never thought to try it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 03:34
|
|
|
enojy posted:To be fair, I had no idea you could do either of these things until I saw it done in a video clip after having beat the game! They never give you a prompt to do so, so I never thought to try it. I just kinda wish that we could just disable or disarm enemies. The way in which literally every option other than escalating murder is taken away is...well, it makes using the grab hard when somebody is begging for their life and you literally cannot spare them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 03:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 12:54 |
|
|
You're sparing them by killing them Enduring another second in the world of 2LOU is the torture Naughty Dog really missed an opportunity to have some NPCs say "gently caress it just do it"
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 03:45
|
|