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rudecyrus posted:god dammit, the thought of someone liking/disliking this thing I dislike/like PISSES ME OFF https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJX4ytfqw6k
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Jul 2, 2020 07:36
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Sungwon Cho is a national treasure
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Jul 2, 2020 07:41
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I continue to be impressed by how Death Stranding played with the idea of violence in video games in interesting ways and even manages to make that a part of the game mechanics.
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Jul 2, 2020 07:58
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Woowee this thread went places when i dropped and went to work. All i need to say at this point looking back on it is: -Your statement doesnt inherently deserve engagement over mockery because you decided it does. -The crowd sequence did everything the WP scene tried to do, better.
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Jul 2, 2020 08:15
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Kirby has never surpassed Kirby Super Star for the SNES. Air Rider came closer mostly because it was doing it's own thing, but that's it. That's my drunken hot take and now I'm going to bed.
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Jul 2, 2020 08:26
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Casey Finnigan posted:Even though I don't have a ton of interest in playing Dad of Boy, I do think that's a pretty interesting way to criticize game violence. Make a game/series that happily glorifies excessive violence, and then make a sequel grappling with the consequences of the actions taken by the main character in the first game. It would probably cut down on the feeling of cognitive dissonance that you get when a game tells you "go over there and kill that guy" and then immediately says "man... that guy had a family... he had pets... everyone loved that guy."
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Jul 2, 2020 08:35
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Here's a video by a Japanese youtuber about weird depictions of Japan in western games: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khvABtJAUYE I don't think there's any good way to add a translation to the video, but there's not a massive amount of text so I guess I'll summarize here: - Starts with the 3 big patterns of Japanese depictions: ninja, samurai, and yakuza. They further add that a lot of the time ninjas are shown working as assassins for Japanese companies and organizations. Samurai are depicted as being the sensei of the foreign protagonist, who teaches them the ways of Japan. Yakuza are depicted as just plain evil. Saints Row 2 having honorable ninja yakuza stands out as dumb, although that's pretty much the joke in the game. - Then they note that everyone in Japan in a video game has a katana and they all love swordfighting. Medal of Honor Rising Sun is also a standout as a WWII game that has a sushi chef that throws knives as a weapon. They have a cutaway to the Saints Row 2 guy saying "You die!" and there's text on-screen that says "finish them off with your sword!" Then in the corner some text pops up that says "No guns. Absolutely not." - They have a segment on how everyone gets sumo absolutely wrong with all kinds of different genres of games, including some weird flash game or something that has mid-air sumo. They have a title card at the end that says "this is not sumo anymore." - They mention the way that western devs slap stupid fake Japanese signs all over the place and how it looks incredibly weird. It's pretty dense and I can't read all of it especially cause it's broken Japanese. --- CoD Infinite Warfare has a big tower that says "tower" on it, and some sign that tries (pitiably) to talk about renewable energy that ends up with a line that says 「いいえ、排出しません。」 which kind of roughly translates to English as "no, I'm not having an emission". CoD has trucks belonging to a company called "truck company". --- Red Steel is really bad, where a bunch of signs are literally just tilted 90 degrees. Red Steel also has a movie called "Lightning: The Movie" and a bottle of liquor that says "nothing" on it. --- Kane & Lynch has a flipped sign that looks like it says "today" instead of "Japan" (they use the same characters). Kane and Lynch has a big building that has a neon sign that says "please make an investment" on it. - They move on to depictions of culture. They mention a strange western view of Japanese culture that mixes up China and Japan. The video maker then draws what they imagine to be a meeting of western game devs making a Japan stage. --- Step 1: sushi. There's more Japan-themed stages with sushi than without it. --- Step 2: geishas --- Step 3: suits of traditional armor. Western Japan-themed stages are full of suits of traditional armor --- Step 4: gotta make sure that you take off your shoes before you go in the house. But... you're not supposed to leave them all the way outside, like in NoLF2. There's a entryway part of the house for that. They're gonna get ruined. --- Step 5: make sure that we include futons instead of mattresses (but all the futons just look like mattresses that were put on the floor). --- Step 6: make sure everyone says "gaijin" (with a terrible accent that sounds like "gaiji" according to the comment section) --- Step 7: anime has to have 1) a skinny young guy with a huge sword, 2) boob jiggle, 3) then tentacles - Then it goes to the most straightforward part: Japanese characters in western games speaking Japanese horribly. Red Steel has a Japanese character speaking to her Japanese father and on the phone in just a really terrible approximation of the language. Kane and Lynch sounds like it has people reading phonetically off of cards. COD: World at War just has the Japanese characters rudely say the phrase "you are not strong" two times in a row. Even the yakuza have terrible accents. And from there it's pretty self-explanatory. Just talking about the terrible pronunciation from Japanese characters. At the end they mention that yakuza with such terrible accents would never be able to threaten anyone. Casey Finnigan fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Jul 2, 2020 |
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Jul 2, 2020 08:35
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Sydin posted:Kirby has never surpassed Kirby Super Star for the SNES. Air Rider came closer mostly because it was doing it's own thing, but that's it. This is the one true kirby opinion. A possible exception is the DS remake which was the same game with improved sprites and slightly more content. It's a good rear end game and I really wish they'd make a Kirby game that's just as good.
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Jul 2, 2020 08:49
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Casey Finnigan posted:Here's a video by a Japanese youtuber about weird depictions of Japan in western games: Thanks so much for providing a translation of it, that's a cool video.
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Jul 2, 2020 08:54
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StealthArcher posted:Woowee this thread went places when i dropped and went to work. You're conflating several different people.
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Jul 2, 2020 09:21
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Casey Finnigan posted:
I'll defend most of this just because having stupid labels and signs is a staple of video games.
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Jul 2, 2020 09:35
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Beefstew posted:You're conflating several different people. I am explicitly responding to Alolois and Arist, not you in this case. The second is just my two cents on the spec ops takes. ^Also, yeah, dumb oblivious signs are great in english, id assume theyre a laff moment in others as well. StealthArcher fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Jul 2, 2020 |
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Jul 2, 2020 09:43
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Yardbomb posted:It's not even about YOU DID THE BAD THING talk with what I'm talking about, I'm just saying that the entire scene feels really dumb to make the bad bit happen, without any actual good reason it felt like because again, oh no, a bunch of dudes in a courtyard while we're in an overlooking position, we could never win this, not even when we won this situation multiple times already, it was a really unearned moment, the scene breaks itself in that Walker and co will just keel over by divine forces if you don't use the mortar. Hmm, an extremely unnecessary and incredibly destructive action justified by the contrived excuse that there was no other way? I'm reminded of the actions of a certain military force...
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Jul 2, 2020 09:59
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Jamie Faith posted:Hey baby, I hear the blues a-callin',
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Jul 2, 2020 10:01
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spec ops the line good, kane and lynch 2 underrated, hotline miami good companion piece
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Jul 2, 2020 10:04
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watho posted:spec ops the line good, kane and lynch 2 underrated, hotline miami good companion piece Spec Ops the Line is no Frasier Madam!!!!
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Jul 2, 2020 10:04
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Frasier is probably the best game I've played, in terms of the critique of violence as a primary system of interactivity in the medium
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Jul 2, 2020 10:25
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John Murdoch posted:
Spec Ops is deeply unserious because it has a cackling Colonel Kurtz pastiche called "Konrad" who was dEaD aLl AlOnG, not because it puts up the mildest possible criticism of video game super soldiers. "Turn off the game" is the response because the whole game (and the whole genre) are non-stop fantastical war crimes, not because that one scene is beyond the pale. The game creates a real moral quandary between people who can reconcile that they enjoy doing fictional war crimes and those who are infuriated by the suggestion.
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Jul 2, 2020 10:30
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funny games sucks because the antagonists keep godmodding how i personally feel about the events
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Jul 2, 2020 10:41
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josh04 posted:The game creates a real moral quandary between people who can reconcile that they enjoy doing fictional war crimes and those who are infuriated by the suggestion. But I love doing fictional war crimes. There's one bit in Saints Row 4 where the antagonist makes a big show of showing you, both the character and the player, how big of a poo poo head you are; showing clips of you just running down pedestrians and doing whatever catastrophic stuff it is you do in saints row games and he gives a big speech about how you're the worst person because you've probably killed more people than any of the actual antagonists of the series save himself. And your response is basically just to laugh because yeah, you are a monster that poo poo was fun to do. And that's basically what spec ops does, except seriously. And rather than using an open world game where most people's instinct is to just be an rear end in a top hat for the joy of it they used a linear mission where you couldn't deviate from the scripted path of doing the thing they admonish you, and the character, for.
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Jul 2, 2020 11:11
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you literally arent the main character tho
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Jul 2, 2020 11:30
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Nuebot posted:But I love doing fictional war crimes. There's one bit in Saints Row 4 where the antagonist makes a big show of showing you, both the character and the player, how big of a poo poo head you are; showing clips of you just running down pedestrians and doing whatever catastrophic stuff it is you do in saints row games and he gives a big speech about how you're the worst person because you've probably killed more people than any of the actual antagonists of the series save himself. And your response is basically just to laugh because yeah, you are a monster that poo poo was fun to do. And that's basically what spec ops does, except seriously. And rather than using an open world game where most people's instinct is to just be an rear end in a top hat for the joy of it they used a linear mission where you couldn't deviate from the scripted path of doing the thing they admonish you, and the character, for. saints row 4 starts with you deciding between curing cancer and eliminating hunger (choice presented by Keith David), now thats a moral choice
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Jul 2, 2020 11:33
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Casey Finnigan posted:Here's a video by a Japanese youtuber about weird depictions of Japan in western games: What's interesting is that a lot of these points map very well onto Western media's portrayal of Eastern Europeans/Slavs/Russians/Soviets/Etc (with some cultural palette-swapping). It's gotten a bit better in recent years but up until circa 2008 whenever a game or a movie would feature any attempt at portraying anything ex-Eastern Blocish, most of the time it'd be prime cringe material or an unintentional comedy goldmine.
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Jul 2, 2020 11:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tbiZZ41kZY New Trainwreckords from Todd in the shadows. This one's on that album collab between Cher and Greg Allman of the Allman Brothers Band.
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Jul 2, 2020 11:41
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Nuebot posted:But I love doing fictional war crimes. There's one bit in Saints Row 4 where the antagonist makes a big show of showing you, both the character and the player, how big of a poo poo head you are; showing clips of you just running down pedestrians and doing whatever catastrophic stuff it is you do in saints row games and he gives a big speech about how you're the worst person because you've probably killed more people than any of the actual antagonists of the series save himself. And your response is basically just to laugh because yeah, you are a monster that poo poo was fun to do. And that's basically what spec ops does, except seriously. And rather than using an open world game where most people's instinct is to just be an rear end in a top hat for the joy of it they used a linear mission where you couldn't deviate from the scripted path of doing the thing they admonish you, and the character, for. Right, so the problem isn't that the game forces you to do cartoon violence - you'd willingly it them for fun so long as the game maintains a consequence-free environment. This is what people say they like about Death Stranding, the use of consequence to dissuade you from being a Saint's Row protagonist. Chosing not to run down pedestrians in Saint's Row 4 is equivalent to saying "turn off the game", it's an unrealistic suggestion outside of contrivance. The choice to not do so is neither here nor there. The problem is that the Spec Ops, just for a moment, pulls back the curtain on what exactly it is you're enjoying, and you notice that it's fictional war crimes. Not a laughably silly rampage through a city in a cartoon car, an extremely detailed simulation of atrocities in wars that are actually happening. The game resolves from a cartoon world where you lay out unstoppable hordes into a 'real' one where you are powerless, complicit and monsterous - the world we actually live in, where real wars take place on a TV screen. Why would you care what the developer thinks? You're admonishing yourself. For a moment the game points out how close your cartoon is to real atrocities that you are likely complicit in, and you feel shame. What would the equivalent scenario for Saint's Row be, to match the cartoon to real-world activity? Would it make playing Saint's Row feel shameful? Are you complicit in your local supercrime gang? That's what people are still mad about, that momentary feeling of shame. Hence the many variations on "how dare it!" "when you yourself are made of gunplay" etc etc. There is something a little shameful about our detailed simulated power fantasies of mass-murdering our way across the Middle East, that we don't like being reminded of.
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Jul 2, 2020 12:20
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More that I choose to do the bad things in Saints Row and I'm forced to do them in Spec Ops. Which, as has been pointed out, dampens the impact and yet the game trips over its self trying to have its entirely unearned moment. And every time someone says that, people line up to smugly go "AHA GUILTY CONSCIOUS METHINKS".
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Jul 2, 2020 12:28
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The idea that anyone sits down with Saint's Row 4 and takes a moral decision to not do ultraviolence is absolutely laughable. The "choice" is nonsensical. You may as well turn off the game.
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Jul 2, 2020 12:43
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Casey Finnigan posted:Yes that's the problem. Video games aren't actually just movies where you hold a controller and half of the movie is walking through hallways. So designing them in that way is bad. Correct. A lot people (mostly game critics) seem to have no issue with games being half movies and I'll never understand it. It's like making a movie and half the plot is given via text scrolls. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Jul 2, 2020 |
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Jul 2, 2020 12:47
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as a kid i went extremely out of my way not to kill random pedestrians in gta games. i have this distinct memory of reluctantly stealing someone’s car and having them fall on the ground beside it and have a tram come with perfect comedic timing and run them over. i was horrified. this doesn’t really have much to do with anything but it’s funny i think 
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Jul 2, 2020 12:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7PLRddEJH0 The Grover House 
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Jul 2, 2020 12:57
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The main thing people seem to keep missing about SOTL is that you aren't Walker. As the game progresses, you have less and less control over him (the controls get looser and the premade animations get longer and more disturbing), and his hallucinations show him as a character directly lying to you as a player. It eventually culminates in the minigun scene, where he directly takes control away from the player in order to start an unnecessarily murderous rail-shooter sequence. Given that the game has given you a number of minor but uncomfortable choices until that point, it's particularly shocking.
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Jul 2, 2020 13:03
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watho posted:as a kid i went extremely out of my way not to kill random pedestrians in gta games. i have this distinct memory of reluctantly stealing someone’s car and having them fall on the ground beside it and have a tram come with perfect comedic timing and run them over. i was horrified. Playing Saints Row 2 I tried doing that started out but driving on the sidewalk was so much more convenient sometimes.
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Jul 2, 2020 13:34
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Arcsquad12 posted:Can we have a post apoc story or game where humanity doesn't immediately default to a raider mentality upon the collapse of civilization? Older post but the Atelier Dusk games (Ayesha, Escha&Logy (Escha to Logy in Japanese for a pun) and Shallie) are set in one of the nicest post-apocalypses I've ever seen. The only battles are against monsters and old robots and the plots tend to revolve around fixing problems like poor soil quality, droughts or broken transportation networks with alchemy.
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Jul 2, 2020 13:40
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I kinda get 'put the controller down' as a dismissal of peoples criticism of the lack of player agency in the story but it always felt a little like 'you're not allowed to enjoy stories about bad people loving up' which is dumb. It is interesting that the white phosphorus scene upset people enough that they all collectively decided that a linear 3rd person shooter game should have had an unprecidented branching narrative so that they can avoid engaging with the core premise and theme of the game they're playing.
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Jul 2, 2020 14:00
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Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance does it right. You spend most of a level with the smug antagonist getting in your face yelling "You're killing real people! You're treating life like a video game! They had dreams and families! Don't you feel bad?" Then after moping for a second Raiden says "No, actually, violence whips rear end and killing people loving rules." And then you unlock your super mode and go to town on the motherfucker and karate kick him into a building before chopping him into tiny pieces. 
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Jul 2, 2020 14:03
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"put the controller down" would be better phrased, I guess, as "then stop enjoying it". If you don't like the the video game can effectively relate your fun-times shooting spree war sim to real war crimes, if the comparison annoys you, then stop enjoying it. That's within your power, not the structure of the game or w/e. If you sincerely think that there's a moral issue in mowing down pedestrians in Saint's Row 4, then stop enjoying it - but most people, obviously, do not. If you really object to games 'making' you simulate war crimes, then stop enjoying the simulated war crimes. Don't complain that the game is making you feel bad by not sufficiently dressing it up.
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Jul 2, 2020 14:09
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raiden...turn off the game console now
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Jul 2, 2020 14:14
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watho posted:as a kid i went extremely out of my way not to kill random pedestrians in gta games. i have this distinct memory of reluctantly stealing someone’s car and having them fall on the ground beside it and have a tram come with perfect comedic timing and run them over. i was horrified. I always used to feel bad about killing all those Italian guards in AC2 as a kid. I remember beating up some guard on a rooftop to avoid killing him, only for him to slide off the edge of the building and feeling kinda bad.
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Jul 2, 2020 14:19
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JustaDamnFool posted:I always used to feel bad about killing all those Italian guards in AC2 as a kid. I remember beating up some guard on a rooftop to avoid killing him, only for him to slide off the edge of the building and feeling kinda bad. That happened to me in the original Mirror's Edge where I was doing a no-kill run and accidentally punted some poor sap off a roof.
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Jul 2, 2020 14:41
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLKZtppbm_Q
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Jul 2, 2020 15:09
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