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Fallen Hamprince posted:After Joel's death, all of Ellie's anger at Joel and associated survivor guilt are displaced onto a perceived need for revenge; when Ellie finally confronts these feelings that need evaporates. A lot of people seem to miss this when it's exactly correct. Ellie doesn't have a 'need' to kill Abby any more than she has a need to kill anyone else she fights in the game. She has a need to find an outlet for her (now compounded) survivor's guilt and PTSD. She doesn't gut Abby while she's strung up, because she feels like that wouldn't properly do it (she could even torture her more easily that way!). She forces a 'fair' fight and even then in her moment of victory, she realises it still wouldn't work, and that's why she stops. It's not even out of nowhere, even before her barn scene her journal consistently describes her feelings and nightmares.
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Jul 3, 2020 03:25
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Fellatio del Toro posted:also important to reiterate that you can like a game and also be critical of it. Anyway, enjoyed the quotes, wanted to talk about this bit because I somewhat disagree. quote:Ellie was sad and angry for reasons that were sympathetic in the immediate aftermath of the trauma of Joel’s death, but by the time she’s trying to drown Abby in the Pacific, she’s spent half the game shambling toward a bleak fate that could have been avoided with a modicum of introspection or awareness. Why Ellie was incapable of that, why it took losing everything for her to see past her despair at witnessing Joel’s death, why she was willing to choose evil rather than acceptance, might have made for an interesting character study. But The Last of Us Part 2 instead serves up a restatement of its basic premise as an endgame revelation. At the start we suspect that she’s furious at the death of a beloved father figure with whom she had a difficult relationship and by the end we’re sure of it. So I don't like that Ellie goes to Santa Barbara, but I think that the fact that decides to go even though it's loving stupid represents an important advantage of the way this sort of game works. The way, indeed, it reverse-robocops you - "yeah, we'll let you do all the shooting at things but for actual decision-making the computer takes over". The rational decision is not to go. Ellie doesn't need to go, Tommy's a dick who'd send his clearly traumatised teenage niece back into the gates of hell, she's in a stable environment with tons of support (except for Tommy. Did I mention that Tommy's a dick? Tommy's a dick. gently caress Tommy). But that's the thing - Ellie can't make a rational decision, and it's good that you can't make one for her. That would be cheating. She feels compelled to go. She has progressive PTSD and has no idea what to do about it, she's worried that she'll eventually become a danger to Dina and JJ, and her life is becoming a living nightmare. "Shambling" is a good word for her progress at this point. She's not on a revenge quest - she's a revenant, just compelled by her very existence to pursue a goal even though the fire that originally drove her has turned to ash. She really is incapable of introspection or awareness at this point. Legitimately. Understandably. I don't disagree so much with this analysis for the earlier part of the game, but I'm comfortable that what Ellie does makes sense. People point to the fact that Ellie, as it is revealed, knows what Joel did, and so she should understand that people would have a legitimate grievance against him and yet drags Dina off on a revenge quest anyway. But I think this is the point - Ellie does know what Joel did, she knows that he chose Ellie over, effectively, the world. If someone had a legitimate grievance against Ellie, came after her, and killed her, would Joel give a single poo poo about how justified they were? He would not. He would burn the world down to make them pay. So the criticism that she lacks introspection and awareness is not wrong - she has not thought things through - but it's not just Ellie being as stupid and unthinking as the plot requires. She's trying to be Joel. She spends the whole game trying to be Joel. And at least part of her revelation at the end of the game is that she isn't, doesn't have to be, and that he wouldn't want her to be.
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Jul 3, 2020 03:46
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I mean I'd take my criticism of the game the opposite direction (beyond what i've all ready discussed), the game is supposed to be about the hollow bitter taste of revenge and when that is at it's end the game is "Have a cool silenced SMG, Don't forget your remote tripmines" Actually i'll pick up on one more thing. If the enemies at all behaved like humans instead of killbots that occasionally went "HOLY poo poo MY FRIEND IS DEAD", getting scared and actually trying to escape, being afraid I'd give this game a lot more credit. You can handwave away Ellie being only able to press X to death by her need for revenge (I Think the game needed more distinctions for that to tack but not my point), but how the enemies act just really numbs the situation for me. bewilderment posted:She doesn't gut Abby while she's strung up, because she feels like that wouldn't properly do it (she could even torture her more easily that way!). I mean, that's an interesting reading of the scene that smacks of the thing you are criticising. Ellie is about to let them go and only when her grief comes back does she force the fight, she was all ready on the edge of forgiveness but was pulled back by the other parts of your post (which are right). For what it's worth I think it's a 7/8 outta ten (if numbers matter they don't but I wanna give my scope). I'm just gonna go hard on a game that touts itself as being serious and tackling serious topics. Stormgale fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 03:50
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Fellatio del Toro posted:I will defer to some excerpts from Rob Zacny who is a much better writer than me: This Zacny guy is writing as though he has only encountered human beings and their ‘emotions’ online and never had a meaningful emotional adult relationship.
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Jul 3, 2020 03:51
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I apologize if it's been mentioned, but it's a big thread -- anyone else get the feeling that the room where you tunnel underwater, emerge, and kill the girl playing Hotline Miami is a direct nod to the opening room of Metal Gear Solid? You swimming in via underground tunnel, the U-shaped dock, the scripted stealth chokehold, and the Sony console in the scene were all just way too evocative to chalk up to coincidence
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Jul 3, 2020 04:37
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Robot Zacny.
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Jul 3, 2020 04:39
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goferchan posted:I apologize if it's been mentioned, but it's a big thread -- anyone else get the feeling that the room where you tunnel underwater, emerge, and kill the girl playing Hotline Miami is a direct nod to the opening room of Metal Gear Solid? You swimming in via underground tunnel, the U-shaped dock, the scripted stealth chokehold, and the Sony console in the scene were all just way too evocative to chalk up to coincidence Holy poo poo man, now I know why that part felt oddly familiar. Yeah maybe it's a nod
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Jul 3, 2020 04:41
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That makes sense to me because I kinda feel like TLoU2 really went out of its way to make the stealth feel much better to make up for the general increase in difficulty overall. It has dramatically improved its very simple systems and a direct homage to MGS could easily be a part of that.
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Jul 3, 2020 04:48
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Bust Rodd posted:That makes sense to me because I kinda feel like TLoU2 really went out of its way to make the stealth feel much better to make up for the general increase in difficulty overall. It has dramatically improved its very simple systems and a direct homage to MGS could easily be a part of that. Totally, and it's also pretty close in-game to the surprise protagonist swap which inevitably was gonna draw MGS comparisons, and it's also just a Sony legacy thing in a room that already has a (rest in peace, Vita means life) old Sony console featured AND an overt nod to a different game series
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Jul 3, 2020 05:12
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Yeah MGS is clearly a big influence on the game. The swimming up is MGS1, Raiden/Abby is MGS 2, crawling around in grass is MGS3, MGS4 final boss fight, and MGSV is the final environment E: Druckos has expressly identified MGS2 as an influence and said he loved the Raiden switch. Although in that case, their interests were still aligned. Has any other game campaign made you play as characters with interests who are directly antithetical? All I can think of is RTS games or Alien vs Predator and even then people separate those out "the Alien campaign" the "Horde campaign" or whatever. I certainly can't think of it happening in a character based action adventure game. BOAT SHOWBOAT fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 05:15
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Fallen Hamprince posted:All of these criticisms ring incredibly hollow and come across to me as a nerd culture writer complaining that the characters don't act with the august detachment and rationalism that he surely would be capable of were he in their place. That's not what any of these criticisms are saying at all; he's not arguing that characters should or shouldn't have done what they did but rather than there are a lot of complex and interesting implications, questions, and dynamics that the game spends little or no time exploring. It's a very long game for what it is and most of Ellie's story is spent repeating the same few notes over and over. quote:This paragraph in particular is written like someone trying to understand grief at a person's death as a function of a video game karma scale in which Ellie should feel no grief, because her anger at her for saving him should cancel out any emotional attachment she has to him. But emotional reality is precisely the opposite; having unresolved tensions with a loved one makes losing them more painful, not less. The rift in Ellie and Joel's relationship is not a mitigating factor, it is the central driving factor in her actions throughout the game. After Joel's death, all of Ellie's anger at Joel and associated survivor guilt are displaced onto a perceived need for revenge; when Ellie finally confronts these feelings that need evaporates. Again, he's not saying Ellie should have realized that Joel was a Bad Person and moved on, but that it should be a complicating layer both to her grief and to her relationships with the people that are following her. Surely Dina would have wanted to know why Abby did it. How do you think she would feel about their revenge plot if Ellie told her the truth? Would Ellie lie? I think your read here is very good but I also feel the way the game handles it fell flat for a couple of reasons: 1) Anyone who played the first game knows what Joel did and why he was killed. Ellie knows as well, but in an effort to create suspense the game withholds this information. The game uses the rift between Ellie and Joel as a big story reveal 3/4 of the way through Ellie's section of the game rather than as a primary motivating factor throughout. Instead of a deep dive into her internal struggle during the journey you spend a dozen grueling hours murdering people and wondering what is keeping the white hot flame of Ellie's rage burning unwavering and when you're finally given the answer I frankly didn't feel like it was enough. 2) Ellie and Joel didn't get the chance to repair their relationship but they did get the chance to say what they needed to say. It seems like the writers decided at the last moment that they didn't want Ellie and Joel's relationship to end on a sour note, and it significantly undermines the unresolved tension that was supposed to be driving her grief.
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Jul 3, 2020 05:20
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Stormgale posted:Actually i'll pick up on one more thing. If the enemies at all behaved like humans instead of killbots that occasionally went "HOLY poo poo MY FRIEND IS DEAD", getting scared and actually trying to escape, being afraid I'd give this game a lot more credit. You can handwave away Ellie being only able to press X to death by her need for revenge (I Think the game needed more distinctions for that to tack but not my point), but how the enemies act just really numbs the situation for me. Yeah I think that would've been nice. More reactive terrified AI is always fun. Dealing with aimbots isn't really the best. Honestly I think it took me till Santa Barbara as Ellie to finally realize what was going on. I took every event on its face, honestly. When Abby showed up at the theater and shot Jesse my reaction was 'Holy poo poo- Wait, where the gently caress have you been this entire time?!' because I got a weird reading on the situation and thought that everyone had a falling out after Salt Lake and Abby had gone rogue and that's why no one knew where she was. Made me really confused why Nora wouldn't give up the info on where she went. Anyway, I think it took me till Santa Barbara to start thinking "Wait, is this just because Ellie has no idea how to process grief because there are no therapists left- Ohhhhhh No"
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Jul 3, 2020 05:36
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Perfectly Safe posted:I don't disagree so much with this analysis for the earlier part of the game, but I'm comfortable that what Ellie does makes sense. People point to the fact that Ellie, as it is revealed, knows what Joel did, and so she should understand that people would have a legitimate grievance against him and yet drags Dina off on a revenge quest anyway. But I think this is the point - Ellie does know what Joel did, she knows that he chose Ellie over, effectively, the world. If someone had a legitimate grievance against Ellie, came after her, and killed her, would Joel give a single poo poo about how justified they were? He would not. He would burn the world down to make them pay. So the criticism that she lacks introspection and awareness is not wrong - she has not thought things through - but it's not just Ellie being as stupid and unthinking as the plot requires. She's trying to be Joel. She spends the whole game trying to be Joel. And at least part of her revelation at the end of the game is that she isn't, doesn't have to be, and that he wouldn't want her to be. I think this is a really good take, especially given Ellie's reaction in the final flashback when Joel says he would have done it again god now I'm thinking about the parallels and implications if, instead of the dumb rattlers, Ellie finally catches up with Abby and she's with the Fireflies
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Jul 3, 2020 06:20
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Fellatio del Toro posted:I will defer to some excerpts from Rob Zacny who is a much better writer than me: Can I get a bit conspiracy theory here? I'm almost certain Zacny didn't finish the game before writing his initial review, as I struggle to understand how anyone that saw the ending could say "Nobody ever reconsiders their quest for vengeance." Apparently a ND or Sony representative got in touch with his editor at Vice to point this out - and I'm betting that is why he went back and finished the game - resulting in this badly argued 'problems with the ending' article.
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Jul 3, 2020 08:43
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As a defense of how Lev is handled, I just gotta say that talking about us being at "certain stages" of trans representation as if they are immutable steps to be taken on the road to equal treatment in society/media is kinda disgusting. Sure, these "stages" are helpful for assessing historical developments, but they're not some unchanging blueprint for moving forward. Maybe a little overwrought, but it reminds me of the line from MLK's Birmingham Jail letter where he mentions white liberals "who paternalistically [believe they] can set the timetable for another man's freedom." No no, trans people, we have to ridicule you first, then we'll focus on your pain and then you get to be normal mundane humans like the rest of us. That's what we did for ethnic minorities and gay people. That's just the ~process~ for building foundations so that people will accept you.
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Jul 3, 2020 08:44
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Akapursch posted:Maybe a little overwrought, but it reminds me of the line from MLK's Birmingham Jail letter where he mentions white liberals "who paternalistically [believe they] can set the timetable for another man's freedom."
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Jul 3, 2020 08:49
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This isn't really a specific defence of Lev, but it's worth remembering that development began in 2014 and the mocap and recording sessions began in April 2017 and took place over much of that summer. The political and social context the game was released in isn't the one it was created in. https://twitter.com/TheVulcanSalute/status/852985061838336000?s=20 Necrothatcher fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 09:06
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Necrothatcher posted:This isn't really a specific defence of Lev, but it's worth remembering that development began in 2014 and the mocap and recording sessions began in April 2017 and took place over much of that summer. The political and social context the game was released in isn't the one it was created in. As dumb as he's been you can certainly see why Druckmann has been so defensive of this. I can't imagine putting so much energy into a single project for six years only for it to be torn apart by chuds before it's even finished. Even legit criticism would be hard to take under those circumstances. The record breaking sales and 10/10s probably help soothe him though.
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Jul 3, 2020 09:16
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It's weird how the game feels extremely 2020, but the script was likely getting out of first draft around the time of the 2016 election... which feels like a loving lifetime ago.
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Jul 3, 2020 09:20
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Considering that things have only become more regressive in the time, I'm not sure that's really such a strong argument, though.
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Jul 3, 2020 09:26
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Cardiovorax posted:Considering that things have only become more regressive in the time, I'm not sure that's really such a strong argument, though. I don't think that's true for trans matters - activists have fought loving furiously and won a hell of a lot of ground over the last four years. The conversation has moved on in a huge way since the middle of the decade - that rapid progress is why TERFs are so upset.
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Jul 3, 2020 09:28
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Indecisive posted:Looking at a map of Seattle the space needle is like.. half a mile from the convention center, which is definitely on the 'mainland' in TLOU2 and not the island, so I'm guessing creative liberties were taken I grew up near Seattle. I also spent years living in both New York City and Los Angeles and let me tell you how silly GTA4 and GTA5 are. Lemme tell you, Seattle was a massive nostalgia ride for me, and I greatly appreciated it, much more than that lovely Infamous game. Here's mine: https://twitter.com/taintgunner/status/1278956126269321216 https://twitter.com/taintgunner/status/1278949477114613760 https://twitter.com/taintgunner/status/1278908550195097600 https://twitter.com/taintgunner/status/1278539354747658241 Lmao. Sir Tonk posted:whether it happened or not, they really want you to think this. the writers go out of their way to portray isaac as a terrible leader that wont listen to his subordinates and gets distracted easily by petty bullshit and revenge. My main problem with Issac is also my problem with Abby and Ellie: They're all complete dumbfucks. Why the gently caress wasn't Abby screaming that Liv was exiled from the Scars and she was saving this poor kid from their cultish upbringing? All you had to do was scream that Liv was an ex-Scar who was being hunted down by the Scars and trying to get the gently caress out of there. And yet, Abby didn't loving bother to mention it, when it was the most essential piece of the loving puzzle. It's just like the loving Star Wars reboot, and most other blockbusters and AAA games, they only work if the main characters are complete dipshits. It's utterly mindless and brainbreaking. mcmagic posted:Was anyone else sure that when Ellie was back on the farm with Dina and the baby that it was all a dream and she would just like wake up and get killed? That is why i found her leaving again not believable. It's literally the wheat field trad-GF fantasy that all the fascists dream of, and it's incredible that it's presented totally uncritically, especially from the perspective of a psychotic mass-murdering white woman Taintrunner fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 10:00
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Lev is a badass. I'm a cis male and nothing I can say could or should invalidate the frustrations of the trans community on the depiction. I think the game has opened a wide number of people's eyes to a perspective they would not have otherwise had but I appreciate that relying on that point sounds like "you should be grateful for any depiction even if it isn't perfect!" but that isn't my intent. The deadnaming stuff makes sense to me in the game as Abby is super respectful and it's the enemy bigot characters who probably don't even understand that Lev is male saying it but I know that content must be triggering for some people and I can't know what that's like. Is it possible for me to say I really appreciate and really like the the character without in any way talking over the discussion or perspective the trans community has of the character? This is a real question not rhetorical. It seems like a good approach is to acknowledge what I enjoyed about the character and that I don't need to retroactively change that, but to consider and listen to why trans people are frustrated about it also with an open mind. Or am I off-base here? E: idk if anyone here has insider goss but I wonder about the timeline of development of this game. Was it really in active development from 2014 onwards? It sounds like after Amy Hennig left all the Last of Us crew went to make Uncharted 4. I bet this game wasn't in active development at all other than very preliminary planning, between Hennig leaving and U4's completion but I could be wrong but substantive development probably didn't start until then BOAT SHOWBOAT fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 10:20
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The Unnamed One posted:Joel rescuing Abby is one of the few inarguably selfless things the guy has done in either game. Honestly this is the laziest part of TLOU2. They couldn't figure out a reason to bring Joel and Abby together, and the entirety of TLOU1 is establishing Joel as a loving hardass who will slaughter, murder, and torture anyone who gets between him and the people who he cares about, so they had to sucker him in a random sequence of chance. Honestly I think that's a large part of what pissed off so many people, as someone who finished TLOU:Remastered right before playing TLOU2 - Joel didn't get a chance to go out like a man. He's immediately wiped off the loving board and it's completely humiliating, all due to nothing but, from his perspective, nothing but incredibly unlucky coincidence. It loving sucks poo poo as a storytelling device. Necrothatcher posted:I'm sorry but the story is real good and even if it wasn't, trying to argue that via cinemasins level criticisms is dumb as gently caress You can completely ignore this troll, they're a hardcore CineD die-hard that thinks the most godawful auteur films that break every single rule of basically storytelling to achieve absolutely nothing are somehow masterpiece visionaries. I say this as a hardcore defender of mother! Kawabata posted:Yeah stopping a story in its climax to force you to play a character you don't care about for 10 hours is usually indicative of solid storytelling. I also loved the "oh but you see dogs aren't bad and you killed them" commentary and Abby's Dances with Wolves bit with the Scars, just groundbreaking stuff right there. Accurate. Good god the anprim cult was so loving lazy. In It For The Tank posted:I just went back and rewatched the scene where Abby and Lev find the discarded map and dang, Ellie really did circle her secret hideout where her pregnant girlfriend is hiding. Looks like all those blows to head have taken their toll. Or maybe the mutated growth in her head is pressing down on her brain. Precisely. The only way the story can progress from Point A to Point B in multiple points is if the major characters act like complete dipshits. Same as the Star Wars reboot trilogy. It's completely lazy and utterly insulting. Taintrunner fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 10:31
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Necrothatcher posted:This isn't really a specific defence of Lev, but it's worth remembering that development began in 2014 and the mocap and recording sessions began in April 2017 and took place over much of that summer. The political and social context the game was released in isn't the one it was created in. Trans pain was still not a good storytelling device in 2014 or 2017. If your game is going to take 6 years to come out, you might want to consider how changing contexts will affect its reception of its story beats and innovation. Necrothatcher posted:Can I get a bit conspiracy theory here? Or the embargo stoppee him discussing the later points, which ha sheen an explicit problem multiple people have expressed in their post review commentary. BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:Lev is a badass. Read some of my earlier posts and the much more eloquent post I quoted a few pages back, Lev can be both a badass and a character whose narrative is centered around trans pain. This is just something I wanna be clear about Stormgale fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 10:46
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Stormgale posted:Or the embargo stoppee him discussing the later points, which ha sheen an explicit problem multiple people have expressed in their post review commentary. I mean, maybe. But regardless of the embargo review rules it's still factually incorrect to say "Nobody ever reconsiders their quest for vengeance." Necrothatcher fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 10:58
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Necrothatcher posted:I mean, maybe. But regardless of the embargo review rules it's still factually incorrect to say "Nobody ever reconsiders their quest for vengeance." If the embargo did not let you talk about any major story beats(which it does based on what I've red),the two places that happens are the theater and the end of the game. Both of these are past the explicit embargo wall. Criticising his review is fine I think it's trash too but making up wierd theories to defend a game you like is a bit silly.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:05
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Stormgale posted:If the embargo does not let you talk about any major story beats(which it does),the two places that happens are the theater and the end of the game. Both of these are past the explicit embargo wall. I don't get your logic. If you can't talk about major story beats or the ending then don't. Making stuff up isn't the answer to that problem.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:07
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Necrothatcher posted:I don't get your logic. If you can't talk about major story beats or the ending then don't. Making stuff up isn't the answer to that problem. I mean I think "people are driven in a way that I find unrealistic" is a fair criticism of the game, I've all ready mentioned it regarding the NPC's above. The two moments of reconsideration are right at the end and in the theater, the latter I can argue is more because of Lev than Abby.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:10
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The review was factually incorrect in terms of the plot beats. Contacting a reviewer and asking them to change it shouldn't be done for any reason though - unless there's an objective technical mistake (like mistakenly saying it's a cross platform game or something). It's just so loving gauche and comes across as pretty underhanded and slimy - even if I understand why they did it.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:10
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Stormgale posted:I mean I think "people are driven in a way that I find unrealistic" is a fair criticism of the game, I've all ready mentioned it regarding the NPC's above. That's subjective and totally a fair criticism. Saying that the characters don't reconsider their desire for revenge is just incorrect though. e: I've reviewed long games to hard deadlines before and I know how much it sucks, so I have some sympathy for the reviewer. But it's not that uncommon to see reviews with disclaimers that they never saw the endings of games and are basing their opinions on where they got to. Necrothatcher fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 11:12
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Necrothatcher posted:That's subjective and totally a fair criticism. Saying that the characters don't reconsider their desire for revenge is just incorrect though. Then just say he was wrong or misrepresenting the game, making up a wierd conspiracy theory to Stan for a game you like esp after you bent over backwards to get mad at me for thinking druckman is up his own rear end r.e how he writes trans characters.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:14
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It's pretty clear to me that the reviewer meant there's a lack of beats where characters examine why they're still on a revenge rampage while it's in progress. The fact that the rampage ends just before it reaches its intended target doesn't change that.
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 11:16
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Stormgale posted:Then just say he was wrong or misrepresenting the game, making up a wierd conspiracy theory to Stan for a game you like esp after you bent over backwards to get mad at me for thinking druckman is up his own rear end r.e how he writes trans characters. I agree with you on the trans points!
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Jul 3, 2020 11:18
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stev posted:The review was factually incorrect in terms of the plot beats. Contacting a reviewer and asking them to change it shouldn't be done for any reason though - unless there's an objective technical mistake (like mistakenly saying it's a cross platform game or something).
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Jul 3, 2020 11:19
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Necrothatcher posted:I agree with you on the trans points! Necrothatcher posted:?? how do you get that from what he said? I'm gonna say the post history where you quibble over "We should just write them as a character" as good writing advice when my criticism is entirely that due to media landscape trans characters and representation needs to be understood is not agreeing with me. But this is getting away from the point. Edit: I literally quoted the post My Dude.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:21
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Stormgale posted:I'm gonna say the post history where you quibble over "We should just write them as a character" as good writing advice when my criticism is entirely that due to media landscape trans characters and representation needs to be understood is not agreeing with me. But this is getting away from the point. Are you confusing me with someone else? e: I didn't say anything about it being good writing advice or not - I just said you misunderstood the quote. For the sake of clarity: Yes, I think people are entirely justified in being critical of TLOU2 for making Lev's misery grounded in him being trans. It's lovely. But I also think that ND were acting with good intentions when they wrote his story. Necrothatcher fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 11:21
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Cardiovorax posted:Giving factually incorrect information that misrepresents the game seems like the one thing where it would be perfectly justified to demand that a reviewer change it. I think it gets very murky when you're talking about the story. The second a publisher starts saying 'the reviewer interpreted this art incorrectly and should change it' we're in very dodgy territory - even if they're technically correct in this instance (the best kind of correct). It just feels like a line that shouldn't be crossed. If I were a reviewer and someone demanded that I amend my incorrect conclusions about a story I'd be very wary of having anything to do with them in future.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:26
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I suppose I see video game reviews as being more customer purchasing advice than art criticism, so I see that as less problematic. To me, getting factually correct information about a game I'm planning to buy is much more valuable than some reviewer's right to completely misinterprete the plot of the game he's reviewing.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:30
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The main problem with The Last of Us 2 is that the entire series is racist as gently caress. The Black family in TLOU1, the Asian siblings in TLOU2, Manny being a spicy sexpot Latino stereotype, not to mention the other minority characters that exist only to be tortured or die horribly for the sole purpose of motivating the cis white women player characters - the only reason people of color exist in The Last of Us is to be misery porn motivators for the white player characters. It's incredibly disturbing and quiet frankly, with everything going on, I'm shocked it hasn't been more openly condemned.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:34
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