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stev posted:I think it gets very murky when you're talking about the story. The second a publisher starts saying 'the reviewer interpreted this art incorrectly and should change it' we're in very dodgy territory - even if they're technically correct in this instance (the best kind of correct). If my review of the first Avengers film says that the heroes dont team up in it because i stopped watching part way through, itd be a lovely review. Even if I put that review out during an embargo itd still be a lovely review becauss it got story beats wrong.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:36
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:If my review of the first Avengers film says that the heroes dont team up in it because i stopped watching part way through, itd be a lovely review. Even if I put that review out during an embargo itd still be a lovely review becauss it got story beats wrong. I'm not debating that it's a lovely review, it absolutely is. I just don't think Sony themselves has the right to complain about it. A better analogy would be saying the Avengers never considered themselves part of a team.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:38
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Taintrunner posted:Honestly I think that's a large part of what pissed off so many people, as someone who finished TLOU:Remastered right before playing TLOU2 - Joel didn't get a chance to go out like a man. He's immediately wiped off the loving board and it's completely humiliating, all due to nothing but, from his perspective, nothing but incredibly unlucky coincidence. Joel dies because he's spent years softening. He and Tommy suggest that Abby's group come to Jackson to resupply, so it's not the first time they've encountered groups of strangers on patrol. There's also the patrol logs Ellie reads where they find survivors and bring them back to Jackson instead. Joel's guard is down because that's how he's lived for the last four years. If you wanna get all grognard about it, he's standing in the middle of the room surrounded by eight to ten soldiers with no weapon in his hands. The gently caress was he going to do?
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Jul 3, 2020 11:39
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stev posted:I'm not debating that it's a lovely review, it absolutely is. I just don't think Sony themselves has the right to complain about it. It's your publisher's job to ring up and loudly what the gently caress at anyone that opposes your success.
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Jul 3, 2020 11:46
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Taintrunner posted:
Can't say I found the atheist/jewish unmarried lesbian couple with their interracial adopted baby particularly trad or fascist myself. At least they're not in Jackson, a gated community.
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Jul 3, 2020 12:13
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There's a fairly large spider in my bathroom. It's been there for over 24 hours. It's in a position that means I can't get a glass over it. I am fairly scared of spiders but don't approve of killing them.Stormgale posted:Actually i'll pick up on one more thing. If the enemies at all behaved like humans instead of killbots that occasionally went "HOLY poo poo MY FRIEND IS DEAD", getting scared and actually trying to escape, being afraid I'd give this game a lot more credit. You can handwave away Ellie being only able to press X to death by her need for revenge (I Think the game needed more distinctions for that to tack but not my point), but how the enemies act just really numbs the situation for me. I stand by my conviction that this would have worked just fine if there hadn't been so many of them. The behaviours that they have are affecting at first. But you become so familiar with their limitations that it becomes a parody of itself; it goes from "I should care about this" to "the game's trying to trick me into caring about this" very quickly. "Oh no, they killed [algorithm searches for a name that hasn't already been used] Alan!" is not enough to carry the idea that these are people through several hours of Oh, more of these guys. I'm sure, on the other hand, that this was all great for the people who got to play a preview for an hour, and I feel like that was the point. A lot of the problems with the way that this game feels would have been resolved if a big chunk of it hadn't been "fight your way through occupied territory". On what level does this make any sense? stev posted:As dumb as he's been you can certainly see why Druckmann has been so defensive of this. I can't imagine putting so much energy into a single project for six years only for it to be torn apart by chuds before it's even finished. Even legit criticism would be hard to take under those circumstances. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that they're at ease with the anticipated reaction of the chuds. It hasn't hurt sales, it creates a shield that allows legitimate criticism of the game and ND to be dismissed, and it's a pretty good PR opportunity generally - people are talking about TLOU2 and have been for a long time. What Druckmann does not like - what, indeed, game publishers don't like - is assessments of their games that don't come in the form of unrelenting praise. And the structure of the relationship between top tier game publishers and established game review organisations means that they feel somewhat entitled to 10/10 scores and sycophantic adoration. In such an environment, mockery and fairly consistent criticism of the game itself (amazing technical achievement but the story has issues is a pretty common refrain) feels very much like oppression. Fellatio del Toro posted:god now I'm thinking about the parallels and implications if, instead of the dumb rattlers, Ellie finally catches up with Abby and she's with the Fireflies Perfectly Safe fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 13:09
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Taintrunner posted:The main problem with The Last of Us 2 is that the entire series is racist as gently caress. The Black family in TLOU1, the Asian siblings in TLOU2, Manny being a spicy sexpot Latino stereotype, not to mention the other minority characters that exist only to be tortured or die horribly for the sole purpose of motivating the cis white women player characters - the only reason people of color exist in The Last of Us is to be misery porn motivators for the white player characters. It's incredibly disturbing and quiet frankly, with everything going on, I'm shocked it hasn't been more openly condemned. Yeah I hope whatever ND does next doesn't just use non white characters as pawns to be killed off as character studies for the white protagonists. It's weird because Uncharted the Lost Legacy is in a sense very progressive in having two non white female leads, but who are played by white women. I'm non white myself and actually am not offended by that game and have some sympathy for the idea that games and voice acting don't need to be bound by the race of the actor, but as a whole it does paint a pretty weird picture. If they make a game with a non-white lead played a non-white actor that would be pretty cool
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Jul 3, 2020 13:14
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Perfectly Safe posted:There's a fairly large spider in my bathroom. It's been there for over 24 hours. It's in a position that means I can't get a glass over it. I am fairly scared of spiders but don't approve of killing them. BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:It's weird because Uncharted the Lost Legacy is in a sense very progressive in having two non white female leads, but who are played by white women. I'm non white myself and actually am not offended by that game and have some sympathy for the idea that games and voice acting don't need to be bound by the race of the actor, but as a whole it does paint a pretty weird picture.
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Jul 3, 2020 13:18
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Cardiovorax posted:Kratos is voiced by a black man. Ever watch the Stargate TV show? He's Teal'c. Kratos is black though, but ashen, so he's white
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Jul 3, 2020 13:29
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Are you serious and Greek people are considered black by US standards these days? Because as a European I honestly don't even want to make assumptions anymore when it comes to how crazy you guys are willing to be about race stuff like that.
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Jul 3, 2020 13:31
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The voice acting thing is incredibly dumb because one side is going “ok, no more white actors playing POC roles!” and the other side is going “we as POC voice actors don’t want to stop getting cast as white characters, but we also would like to not only get cast as minorities either, so in order for any of this to matter, we need more diversity in production and writing staff or this is all meaningless!” and the response has been “Kristen Bell gave up her role, what more do you want?!”Cardiovorax posted:Are you serious and Greek people are considered black by US standards these days? Because as a European I honestly don't even want to make assumptions anymore when it comes to how crazy you guys are willing to be about race stuff like that. No Greek people are definitely white here in 2020, like Italians or Irish. stev posted:I'm not debating that it's a lovely review, it absolutely is. I just don't think Sony themselves has the right to complain about it. I think there’s a difference between an unfavorable review (game is bad) and a lovely review (reviewer fails to complete game and says objectively incorrect or untrue things about the game) and gaming journalists are seemingly totally immune to criticism and should honestly not be immune to pushback just because the company who made the game is big and successful. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 13:32
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Necrothatcher posted:I mean, maybe. But regardless of the embargo review rules it's still factually incorrect to say "Nobody ever reconsiders their quest for vengeance." Cardiovorax posted:Then use it to get internet famous. Make photos and post it in the Critterquest thread. We might be able to tell you what it is and how scared for your life you should be. (it is very scared) It is a common house spider. It is of no danger to me whatsoever. My fear of spiders does not stem from a rational assessment of the amount of danger the spider presents to me. I am well aware that I am very frightening to the spider, but that doesn't help because that just makes it do things like running, which I do not care for. It's sitting in its web and I have no expectation that it plans to move. I have little fear that it's going to crawl across my face in the night. But whenever I go into the bathroom, I have to fix my eyes on it. I cannot not look away because I have to make sure that I know exactly where it is and what it's doing while I'm in there. When I do throw spiders out, i have to leave the glass top down on the table for some time afterwards, just in case the spider is still hiding in there somewhere.
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Jul 3, 2020 13:40
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The spider is keeping you safe from worse bugs. You should give it a drop of morning dew in a tiny mug and put her name on the lease!
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Jul 3, 2020 13:44
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Perfectly Safe posted:I think it's accurate in the sense that he means it - it's just not accurate for all possible interpretations of what he says. Characters reacting to event and circumstance are not the same as characters who are reflecting on whether they're doing the right thing. that's being incredibly generous but okay you would make a good lawyer!
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Jul 3, 2020 13:49
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Would just like to say that playing as a swole girl owns in this game. Women characters in video games who should ostensibly be in top shape due to their physicality and feats of strength are usually lithe and unrealistically proportioned.
biceps crimes fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jan 12, 2021 |
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Jul 3, 2020 14:21
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edit: oh gently caress wrong thread.
Vikar Jerome fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 14:25
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Thread continues to be good and readable. Sorry for just popping in to comment on that, but it's a night and day difference to what it was to the point I'm going to actively redirect people this way for Spoiler Chat. I'll probably unbookmark soon, because without the idiots faffing it up I want to forget as much as possible for when I eventually do play it. Still a solid 3 out of 5 fingers effort team.
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Jul 3, 2020 14:47
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Joel's actions leading up to his death do make sense (hes been hanging around Tommy in relative peace and safety for 4 years, of course hed be a little more trusting especially when he didnt have much of a choice at the time). The scenario leading up to it is contrived as hell though. Tommy's settlement has been doing regular patrols to clear out infected, and characters mention that theyve never seen more than a dozen or so infected at a time, Dina says the most shes ever seen is 20. But all of a sudden loving hundreds swarm out of nowhere and only converge on the place Abby, Joel, and Tommy are, and then vanish when Ellie is making her way to the cabin.
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Jul 3, 2020 14:48
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CharlestonJew posted:Joel's actions leading up to his death do make sense (hes been hanging around Tommy in relative peace and safety for 4 years, of course hed be a little more trusting especially when he didnt have much of a choice at the time). The scenario leading up to it is contrived as hell though. Tommy's settlement has been doing regular patrols to clear out infected, and characters mention that theyve never seen more than a dozen or so infected at a time, Dina says the most shes ever seen is 20. But all of a sudden loving hundreds swarm out of nowhere and only converge on the place Abby, Joel, and Tommy are, and then vanish when Ellie is making her way to the cabin. During one of the flashbacks, Tommie mentions that infected migrate in hordes, and end up leaving some stragglers behind in their wake. And Dina says the most she has cleared on patrol is 20, not that that's the most she has seen.
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Jul 3, 2020 14:59
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Yeah as soon as the migrating hordes thing was mentioned I didn't see it as contrived at all. Joel is one of Jackson's top patrol guys, if anyone's going to run into someone in the nearby area it's a patrol guy. It's fine. It doesn't even matter that much that there were a shitload of infected. Joel could've saved Abby from one clicker, or she could've been injured causing Joel and Tommy to offer to escort her back to her group. It's not a situation that needs contrivances to be believable.
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Jul 3, 2020 15:06
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Bust Rodd posted:The spider is keeping you safe from worse bugs. You should give it a drop of morning dew in a tiny mug and put her name on the lease! Did...did the spider write this? Sinten posted:Would just like to say that playing as a swole girl owns in this game, usually we're the targets of mockery, scorn or fetishist gaze. Women characters in video games who should ostensibly be in top shape due to their physicality and feats of strength are usually lithe and unrealistically proportioned. I have a swole girl question! I had an argument with a "there's no way she could get that buff under these circumstances" dude a little while back. For the record, I don't think it matters and that guy definitely didn't have a commitment to realism in video games(TM) at the heart of his argument anyway, but it struck me that they'd not be lacking for carbs and protein in their situation (it's sort of implied that there's tons of game around, for one thing) and that it'd be more difficult to be a vegetarian than to get buff. Is that about right? Would there be problems in Abby's situation attaining and maintaining that sort of physique in the absence of modern conveniences?
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Jul 3, 2020 15:33
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It would depend heavily on the region, I think. Hunting is a highly unreliable method of bringing in food, even when you're really good at it - especially if you don't have access to easy means for keeping the meat fresh and unspoiled. However, there would be tons and tons of hybridized and half-wild crop plants around at this point, because the farms didn't exactly have time to bring in their harvest before the zombies came. I imagine there are miles and miles of unkempt and half-overgrown cornfields everywhere, nature can't have reclaimed all of it already. Also, orchards, which would be ragged and unkempt as gently caress, but still made of trees that can live hundreds of years. Fruit would be plentiful for any settlement even remotely near them. Beans grow easily, are full of proteins and carbs, and can be found in dozens and dozens of cultured varieties. I imagine there is plenty of that. VVV Well, electricity would certainly do a lot for keeping you in meat and proteins, so that is a good point. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 15:45
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Keep in mind the WLF base is shown to clearly have a "State-of-the-art-for-2013" fitness center and electricity, and Abby mentions the bench a lot. So she does have many modern conveniences available.
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Jul 3, 2020 15:47
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Perfectly Safe posted:Did...did the spider write this?
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Jul 3, 2020 16:02
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Perfectly Safe posted:I have a swole girl question! I had an argument with a "there's no way she could get that buff under these circumstances" dude a little while back. For the record, I don't think it matters and that guy definitely didn't have a commitment to realism in video games(TM) at the heart of his argument anyway, but it struck me that they'd not be lacking for carbs and protein in their situation (it's sort of implied that there's tons of game around, for one thing) and that it'd be more difficult to be a vegetarian than to get buff. Is that about right? Would there be problems in Abby's situation attaining and maintaining that sort of physique in the absence of modern conveniences?
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Jul 3, 2020 16:06
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Sinten posted:During one of the flashbacks, Tommie mentions that infected migrate in hordes, and end up leaving some stragglers behind in their wake. And Dina says the most she has cleared on patrol is 20, not that that's the most she has seen. There's also the hotel in that flashback, with the letter at the end from the two runaways saying they didn't make it an hour before they ran into a horde and both got bit. There's also numerous hordes in Seattle you run away from because you can't fight them all.
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Jul 3, 2020 16:07
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Sinten posted:She's young, has access to free weights and some other equipment I assume at the stadium, and has access to a stable diet. She's discipline, motivated and has a desire to be strong as hell. It all checks out. Great, thank you. Sorry for immediately quizzing you about the single thing you revealed about yourself but I really wanted to know.
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Jul 3, 2020 16:24
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Perfectly Safe posted:...but it struck me that they'd not be lacking for carbs and protein in their situation... Definitely not protein at least  
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Jul 3, 2020 16:26
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Akapursch posted:Definitely not protein at least Yeah, I did notice that there is conspicuous amount of meat around the stadium area (and I feel like the central area was mostly given over to crops, but can't remember). There are what look like deer haunches either barbecuing or drying outside as well. It's almost like they anticipated thee "how could she possibly?" question. It was more a "is it feasible to eat enough if the food comes in the form of basic foodstuffs" than "do they have enough food". They have a lot of food. Cardiovorax posted:Beans grow easily, are full of proteins and carbs, and can be found in dozens and dozens of cultured varieties. I imagine there is plenty of that. Perfectly Safe fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 16:35
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Perfectly Safe posted:I have a swole girl question! I had an argument with a "there's no way she could get that buff under these circumstances" dude a little while back. For the record, I don't think it matters and that guy definitely didn't have a commitment to realism in video games(TM) at the heart of his argument anyway, but it struck me that they'd not be lacking for carbs and protein in their situation (it's sort of implied that there's tons of game around, for one thing) and that it'd be more difficult to be a vegetarian than to get buff. Is that about right? Would there be problems in Abby's situation attaining and maintaining that sort of physique in the absence of modern conveniences? I don't think diet would be an issue, its more that there's a point of diminishing returns to muscle mass from lifting that's dictated by the bodybuilder's endocrine system and can't really be pushed past without resorting to anabolic steroids. This is why it is extremely common for serious bodybuilders, of any gender identity, use performance enhancing drugs, to the point where there are separate competitions for non-steroid users. But I don't think you can say definitively "this person must be using steroids" or "this build is impossible for a woman" because its always possible that someone won the genetic lottery and can get there naturally.
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Jul 3, 2020 16:49
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I know nothing about steroids, but is it possible she might have a supply? Or do they have a short shelf life? The random boxes of unmarked brain pills seem to work for learning new skills. 
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Jul 3, 2020 16:55
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stev posted:I know nothing about steroids, but is it possible she might have a supply? Or do they have a short shelf life?
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Jul 3, 2020 17:04
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stev posted:I know nothing about steroids, but is it possible she might have a supply? Or do they have a short shelf life? Not that I think that she'd necessarily have to be using steroids, but they're not that difficult to manufacture (to my limited understanding) and they're presumably manufacturing some medical supplies if they're doing surgery anyway.
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Jul 3, 2020 17:16
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ErrEff posted:Eagerly looking forward to the Horizon sequel where Aloy comes across a somehow-still-alive Ted Faro and forgives him for everything. Given the choices I saw in the first game and Aloy's personality, this probably won't happen. Aloy won't feel it's her place to give Ted forgiveness or condemnation. If we have a choice to kill Ted, it will probably be a Lucius DeBeers & JC Denton type situation. Let the old man live in the messed up world he helped create or take pity on him and cut the life support off. Back on topic for Last of Us 2, I like that the Infected are evolving and moving in hordes with a hive mind like we saw in the Rat King. Always cool when zombies evolve and become tougher adversaries. I also agree that Abby could get naturally beefed up with serious fighting skills. There are probably people out there who bash female MMA fighters with steroid speculation, but I like that the game left such things open to interpretation for this character. It's very possible to have anger issues and Hulk yourself up without turning green. This game had a lot of mess-ups and its story is not well executed, so I won't be buying it. But I did watch one full game Let's Play. achtungnight fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 17:18
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Seedge posted:If you wanna get all grognard about it, he's standing in the middle of the room surrounded by eight to ten soldiers with no weapon in his hands. The gently caress was he going to do? Not stand in the middle of the room where he would be surrounded by eight to ten soldiers with no weapons in his hands in the first place? Softening up or not, that's unbelievable behaviour now in the not-apocalypse. Ignoring the fact that they're all armed strangers and you should be wary about not having any of them not in your line of sight (not that it matters since Tommy would have been able to see Abby pick up the shotgun and turn to face her brother and still did nothing): say you're meeting a group of people for the first time and they're arranged in a circle. Do you stand in the middle of the circle with your back to half the group at any given time? No, because that's a really vulnerable and uncomfortable position to be in regardless of your current circumstances. There are dozens of ways to get to the same outcome (Joel crippled, Tommy unconcious) and they chose one of the most bizarrely contrived ones. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 17:18
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Fallen Hamprince posted:But I don't think you can say definitively "this person must be using steroids" or "this build is impossible for a woman" because its always possible that someone won the genetic lottery and can get there naturally. https://twitter.com/wordglass/status/1278172855633494017?s=21 Colleen Fotsch is a real person who Abby is based on and she seems like a serious fitness buff but obviously you can’t really tell a lot by just googling “Colleen Fotsch steroids?” so I can’t speak to her use of PED, but this build is absolutely possible for a woman.
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Jul 3, 2020 17:19
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achtungnight posted:This game had a lot of mess-ups and its story is not well executed, so I won't be buying it. But I did watch one full game Let's Play. I feel like you miss out on a lot by not actively playing it yourself. I've never felt so conflicted as a player as when the game is telling you to fight Ellie as Abby. For me that's the sort of thing that could have only been accomplished through a game.
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Jul 3, 2020 17:44
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Perfectly Safe posted:Yeah, I did notice that there is conspicuous amount of meat around the stadium area (and I feel like the central area was mostly given over to crops, but can't remember). There are what look like deer haunches either barbecuing or drying outside as well. It's almost like they anticipated thee "how could she possibly?" question. It was more a "is it feasible to eat enough if the food comes in the form of basic foodstuffs" than "do they have enough food". They have a lot of food. I don't think the diet is an issue, there are plenty of grown men around in the WLF who weigh more than Abby. As far as possibility is concerned, natural human muscular and strength potential genetic distribution is best expressed as a bell curve, like many other human traits. Abby has shown that she responds well to resistance training and has some genetic advantage. Women at the other end of the bell curve (disadvantaged) may find it to be impossible to achieve Abby's physique naturally. As far as steroids are concerned, be skeptical of anyone declaring definitively what is and isn't possible. Your sample shouldn't be people around you at work or the weekend warriors who fart around at your local gym. Sample young strength athletes. I've observed, met, and known plenty of young olympic and power lifters in my time who are similarly muscled to Abby and are ostensibly natural. I've also known bodybuilders and strength athletes who aren't shy about their chemical assistance. There is an obvious difference between both groups in terms of outliers, but also some overlap between the two (genetically disadvantaged steroid users, genetically advantaged and natural). PEDs are generally a switch that is flipped to elevate yourself in your sport once you've exhausted your genetic potential, but it comes at a cost. Sometimes going pro is worth the cost of continual hormone readings, dependence upon exogenous hormones, and risk of endocrine disruption and undesired side effects if steroid supplementation must cease due to scarcity, health concerns, etc. Of course, this is more depth than any of the conjecture from the male dominated discourse concerning Abby's body deserves. It's all bad-faith crap from inexperienced and intimidated men and I've heard it all. It is best ignored. biceps crimes fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 17:45
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ripped Abby rules
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Jul 3, 2020 17:46
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In It For The Tank posted:There are dozens of ways to get to the same outcome (Joel crippled, Tommy unconcious) and they chose one of the most bizarrely contrived ones. I didn't find it contrived at all. They just escaped a massive horde, found themselves in the company of a large group of armed people and tried their best to be friendly, as opposed to backing into a corner pointing a gun at the entire group.
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Jul 3, 2020 17:46
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