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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Why are rebel grots the only good, fun, or interesting thing about 40k grots, but goblins in fantasy have always been way more fun than orcs? I think probably because Orcs & Goblins have gotten more artistic attention over the years than Orks have, honestly. While Brian Nelson's orks, for both Gorkamorka and the next couple of editions, are some really great designs, it's worth keeping in mind that they're now all 15-20 years old with no real attention to revising them. Until 7th edition leaned really hard into reviving some of the old 2e weirdness, orks were pretty much unchanged from 3e - an edition devoted to standardizing, consolidating, and pruning army lists, at least at first. After 3e, when new things have been added to orks, they've almost all been from 2e or Epic, like the Stompas, aircraft, buggies, and the old ork clans. 2e and Epic didn't have any interesting grot units (except for the Shokk Attack Gun kinda), so gretchin have missed out on the nostalgia revivals. Mass orks or mass IG or mass 'gants had a role in different metas but gretchin never got a real push in the rules. There wasn't a lot to distinguish them from orks in 2e or 3e except for the fact that they were a little bit cheaper points-wise and sucked bad at everything you'd possibly want a unit to do. Fantasy inherently has a place for bad filler troops, but 40K much less so. It also helps that Gloomspite Gitz were, like most AOS 2e armies, really heavily pushed, balancewise. GW has never been shy about powercreep but having night goblins running tables in a game that doesn't yet have "main" factions probably made a difference. On the other hand, orcs are still split up into two separate armies in AOS and neither of them is particularly interesting. Plus, gretchin were never popular even back when they were cheap and plentiful (with the cheap autogun gretchin in the 2e starter box). When orks got their big 3e redesign, gretchin mostly got left behind aesthetically. Only the pewter Gorkamorka gretchin looked like they belong with the new orks, and nobody was going to spend that much money on models that weren't visually flashy or mechanically useful. There was also a bigger concern: there wasn't a good-looking, customizable ork boyz box set with both shooting and melee options until 4e or 5e. (Gorkamorka boxes filled in the gap somewhat, but the whole line was discontinued fairly early in 3e's life.) A lot of things about 40K's history and popularity were dictated by which factions were available in cheap, customizable plastic sets, and which factions were for people who could afford 50 blisters of pewter hormagaunts or multiple copies of the limited-edition boxed set with two and a half squads of Imperial Guard.
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Jul 3, 2020 16:16
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I mean, no one's exactly been complaining about Orks since Gorkamorka became the main aesthetic. Fantasy Goblins on the other hand had to stand out, and as well as more specific LotR references like giant spiders, they're a lot more interesting as an army that knows they're the underdog and will do absolutely anything to win, focusing on fanaticism and crazy ideas. (not quite the same way as Skaven)
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Jul 3, 2020 18:41
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Games Workshop apparently decided it had enough of noted shitbird Arch Warhammer's poo poo. So now his youtube channel is just Arch.
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Jul 3, 2020 21:08
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It's also come out (after a gently caress up by PC game company) that GW were already directing their partners not to promote products through his channel.
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Jul 4, 2020 03:11
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Freeblade is an goode gamme, possible to play/git gud at without spending money on.
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Jul 4, 2020 03:23
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One thing that I miss in the current iteration of Warhammer is that unlike society at large, it is a lot less gay. The old custodes really made the whole "the Emperor absolutely had sex with the Primarchs" subtext pretty close to text. Every time a ship crashed into another ship, it was clearly anal sex. There was fisting with powerfists. Really great stuff. Space Marines went from being the sacred band of thebes to asexual wimps that are afraid of women. The old answer to, "Why no women Space Marines?" was "They were prepubescent and pumped full of crazy hormones. They may have started out as a woman but by the time they are a space marine they are all man." (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 4, 2020 03:38
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Incelshok Na posted:Homophobic "jokes" That's an interesting regdate you have there.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:16
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While the early homoeroticism of WH40K came from the very '80s punk aesthetic that believed "being fascist doesn't make you tough and scary, it makes you gay as hell" which undeniably involves some homophobia because it accepts as a premise that "gay=bad", as a young gay I enjoyed the representation in a genuine way. Especially because it ran so counter to mainstream '90s homophobia where we were portrayed as effete weaklings, closer to some kind of woman than a "real man". These homosexuals were undeniably all men all the time doing manly things. While every bit as ironic as every other part of the setting, it was something I was able to enjoy unironically. Unlike the fascists who would come to dominate the game in their unironic enjoyment of fascism, I knew it was a send-up but I still enjoyed it and miss that it has been phased out.
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Jul 4, 2020 17:57
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Gonna steal your thunder and talk about how Digga's were humans who had crashed on the planet with the Gorka's and the Morkas. They had become Orky to survive and got their name because they dug around these monoliths the orks were afraid of, but the humans could go there. The assumption was the Necrons where there are protecting the humans for some reason.
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Jul 4, 2020 23:02
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Cease to Hope posted:Gorkamorka was a terrible game! Haha trukk go brrr.
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Jul 4, 2020 23:07
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Incelshok Na posted:While the early homoeroticism of WH40K came from the very '80s punk aesthetic that believed "being fascist doesn't make you tough and scary, it makes you gay as hell" which undeniably involves some homophobia because it accepts as a premise that "gay=bad", as a young gay I enjoyed the representation in a genuine way. Especially because it ran so counter to mainstream '90s homophobia where we were portrayed as effete weaklings, closer to some kind of woman than a "real man". These homosexuals were undeniably all men all the time doing manly things. insofar as the the message is that homosexuality, homosocial bonds, and aesthetic appreciation of the male form are not things to be ashamed of and sublimated into a self and other-abnigating love of violence and hated of life, but rather things to be embraced and celebrated for their own sake, there is value to be found in that approach to satire of fascism although this is not its precise thesis, i've always loved this aspect of 300
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Jul 5, 2020 04:56
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300 absolutely hits those same notes for me, despite being a lovely movie overall. And thanks for getting what I'm saying and saying it better. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who thinks the way I do. Incelshok Na fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Jul 5, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 05:03
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the emperor: i have created for myself ten thousand beautiful, perfect men, each a unique being who is an absolute master of both warfare and the intellect. they shall be my companions, but save for safeguarding my person, they shall not be put to use, for i love each and cannot bear to use them for war malcador: is is possible that the emperor is... gay? no, surely it is his great pain at the suffering he demands of humanity, and the sorrow he feels at bending his arts and his people to naught but destruction which drives him to take refuge in the bosom of these angelic men and their divinely sculpted abs the emperor: i have also created an order of women to serve me; each is soulless and has taken a vow to never speak malcador: i am also beginning to wonder if he might have issues with women
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Jul 5, 2020 05:07
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Incelshok Na posted:300 absolutely hits those same notes for me, despite being a lovely movie overall. glad to help also i was thinking about it, and the emperor's enemies are chaos, a dragon, and other cultures, and his mistakes lead him to spend significant time in a coma this means that the emperor is ultimately space fantasy jordan peterson im here all night folks
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Jul 5, 2020 05:31
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I'm sure some lunatic alt right person has already grokked to that. LOL. Of course we all know who the real god emperor is: It reminds me of a statue at the Brooklyn Museum. It's of Satan and he's got a sword but it's all limp and floppity to represent his utter impotence. It's pretty awesome.
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Jul 5, 2020 05:35
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Ironic thing is the Space Marines are statistically the least loyal of the Imperium's military forces while the Sisters are the most by a long shot Also being soulless isn't too bad, it means you can kill demons and wizards with ease
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Jul 5, 2020 07:40
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Mods banning a self-professed gay guy for homophobia, absolutely classic.
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Jul 5, 2020 16:52
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Mordja posted:Mods banning a self-professed gay guy for homophobia, absolutely classic. Well if it wasn't that it'd be the 'All protestants are the devil' talk in TV-IV's catra thread or the hitler apologia in the USPOL thread. Lmao
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Jul 5, 2020 20:02
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For transparency, the main things for me were: 1. Their idea of bringing gay rep back to Warhammer 40K involved regretting that it was no longer overtly homophobic and had things like ships crashing into each other being an anal sex joke. Being gay and being homophobic aren't mutually exclusive. 2. They're a rereg of a poster whose greatest hits includes calling homosexuality the ultimate perversion. 3. They rereged July 2nd and gave Lowtax money. We also have a feedback thread I'd prefer to take there instead of taking over the 40K thread with it. I don't think most posters really care to see an argument over a probation here. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3930278
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Jul 5, 2020 20:07
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Roth posted:For transparency, the main things for me were: one nice thing about probation as a mechanic is that they can be used as a way of saying "lurk more" without it being a binary banned/not banned dichotomy
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Jul 6, 2020 00:31
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Laughing Zealot posted:Games Workshop apparently decided it had enough of noted shitbird Arch Warhammer's poo poo. So now his youtube channel is just Arch. not surprised. the dudes been a toxic part of the community for a while and a massive weird alt right rear end in a top hat and with GW trying to expand their base. it wont help them keeping his dumb rear end around.
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Jul 6, 2020 02:29
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Is Bruva Alfabusa still cool? Or is he a creep too?
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Jul 6, 2020 04:39
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MonsieurChoc posted:Is Bruva Alfabusa still cool? Or is he a creep too? he and the rest are cool i believe as far as i know.
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Jul 6, 2020 04:47
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Motherfucker posted:Well if it wasn't that it'd be the 'All protestants are the devil' talk in TV-IV's catra thread or the hitler apologia in the USPOL thread. Lmao I really need to finish up She-Ra apparently I love that children's cartoons are now all about disaster gays
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Jul 6, 2020 05:17
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it only just occurred to me that the depiction of space marines as gay dudes who fought football hooligans (orks) means that space marines were originally based in part on punks who fought nazis on the street- ie, the ancestors of antifa and in part probably the same people which would make them antifa supersoldiers its at least true enough to troll with  e: it should be mentioned that space marines as gay is something there's been a serious commitment to even at the settings worst. like half the lore sometimes feels like it's about the dark angels, who are named after a poem about being gay by a gay poet who their primarch is named after. and their dark secret which must never be spoken of and which would forever tarnish their legacy of unswerving loyalty. and the blood angels, whose saintly purity is belied by hidden, uncontrollable passions they must struggle against daily. the ultramarines are the repressed ones who are basically space cops. i guess they sell well? but if we aren't going to abandon this space hulk of a cultural niche to fascists, we should probably be clear and positive about how space marines have always been very gay and very much about being gay. and in a larger sense they speak in very direct and loud terms to questions about masculinity with an aesthetic often compared to metal- a genre which appeals to creative people more than its image might suggest. i guess you might say that it's a good idea to read space marines as a critique of masculinity being defined in terms of violence, with homosociality and celebration of the male form restricted to the context of explicit or implicit violence, and homosexuality violently repressed while remaining so close to the surface that it's barely subtext. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jul 6, 2020 |
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Jul 6, 2020 07:44
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also upon reflection it is clear to me that trump is none other than kind, fatherly papa nurgle
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Jul 6, 2020 08:41
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this clearly makes obama tzeenech, offers hope and change and has supposedly plans within plans within plans, but never actually accomplishes anything in the end
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Jul 6, 2020 09:35
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Ironic thing is the Space Marines are statistically the least loyal of the Imperium's military forces while the Sisters are the most by a long shot how much of the Mechanicum turned traitor during the heresy, was it proportional to the Astartes
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Jul 6, 2020 09:54
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Ghost Leviathan posted:this clearly makes obama tzeenech, offers hope and change and has supposedly plans within plans within plans, but never actually accomplishes anything in the end obama is totally the dude who whispers "just as planned" as his avatar fades back into the warp and like tzeench or hamlet, it's all mostly an excuse to furiously do nothing, yeah
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Jul 6, 2020 10:58
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Hodgepodge posted:also upon reflection it is clear to me that trump is none other than kind, fatherly papa nurgle Nurgle loves all. Trump only loves himself. He's an avatar of Slaanesh if anything.
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Jul 6, 2020 13:50
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Trump is one of those commisars who winds up getting "accidentally" shot by one of his men just before they flee.
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Jul 6, 2020 15:26
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I really need to finish up She-Ra apparently It's really good.
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Jul 6, 2020 16:27
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Laughing Zealot posted:He's an avatar of Slaanesh if anything. Impossible. He's a teetotaler.
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Jul 6, 2020 20:09
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PeterWeller posted:Impossible. He's a teetotaler. Dude's got the gluttony aspect on lockdown, though. 
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Jul 6, 2020 21:36
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Becoming a champion of chaos requires competence, not just money. Donnie's a slaanesh boy but would've been spawned by the '80s.
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Jul 6, 2020 23:17
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Becoming a champion of chaos requires competence, not just money. Donnie's a slaanesh boy but would've been spawned by the '80s. Abbadon the Despoiler
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Jul 7, 2020 07:20
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Abbadon the Despoiler Being able to keep poo poo together and not be replaced after the 3rd failed crusade is a sign of competence, as well as being the only one who who could organize a big one. 
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Jul 7, 2020 11:17
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The better, more interesting treatments of Chaos (from writers like Abnett), treat it as it’s own whole society, complete with factions, politicking, etc., so there are probably plenty of failson chaos warlords and champions out there kept in place by sheer institutional inertia, against which even the gods struggle in vain. poo poo, Chaos is probably way more poorly organized than the imperium. Imagine trying to administer a Black Crusade with out a bureaucracy to help. I’d read a story about the chosen of the despoiler, veterans of the long war, who have to spend their days laboring over spreadsheets to try and make sure the bolted ammo and black paint gets where it needs to be on time, and who have to deal with squabbling between sorcerers over which rituals get used. I mean imagine what would be necessary to prevent your slave soldiers from just loving off and deserting the second they had a chance while invading a imperial world.
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Jul 7, 2020 11:23
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Chaos has always existed outside of space and time. That's Abaddon's whole deal: he's the leader of the Chaos Space Marines in general because he's the one who picked up Horus's arms after he fell, ten thousand years ago. That's always come through with the 40K Chaos miniatures line. They're spiky mutants, sure, but their weapons and armor are all baroque and ornate, decorated in gold and brass. They are the decadent past, turned into an eternal present threat of infiltration and corruption.
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Jul 7, 2020 12:53
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Which seems like a fun subversion of the fascist's idealised, puritan past; the past is right there lurking behind the curtain and it's just all the worst mistakes of history that will never go away, kept alive as a nightmare. ...I'm suddenly realising that 40k Chaos seems a LOT like Doom. I imagine they probably fed into each other at least a bit.
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Jul 7, 2020 13:09
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