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Incelshok Na posted:It's not something that makes sense through a modern lens at all, but if we put ourselves in the shoes of a black New Yorker in the 30s it makes a lot more sense. It actually has far more recent precedent* than the 30's, at least in New York City. I'm specifically referring to the Crown Heights riot that took place in the early 1990's, which erupted after a traffic accident between a Hasidic Jewish motorcade and two black Guyanese children on the sidewalk. After the accident, medical services are alleged to have supported the Hasidic Jewish driver instead of providing aid to the two black kids (one of whom died, and the other was seriously injured.) The black community there rioted, and existing anti-Jewish resentment within their community played a huge role in how ugly it got. You can still see echoes of that today. That part of Brooklyn is very Caribbean black, but is very close to a huge Hasidic population center. So, it's not uncommon to see arguments and altercations on the street between both groups. *e: originally said “provenance.” This was the wrong word and was dumb. Sorry to all. Xealot fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 00:58
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I mean, it's been ongoing since forever. The Golden Age from 1955-1966, inasmuch as it existed and the CIA-mediated fracturing of the Civil Rights movement which folded a lot of the antisemitic elements into the Nation of Islam (and BHI, lol) at the same time Jews were becoming more "white" in the postwar era as part of American national mythmaking put things on a low simmer. It's not like Hymietown came out of nowhere. Crown Heights riots aren't a start. They are part of a long history of friction. Baldwin and Hamid lived in Harlem.
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Jul 3, 2020 01:04
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It's kinda like how older black voters didn't vote for Bernie even though he was objectively the best candidate.
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Jul 3, 2020 02:42
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Jesus christ, please, gently caress, no
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Jul 3, 2020 02:47
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Mantis42 posted:It's kinda like how older black voters didn't vote for Bernie even though he was objectively the best candidate. Yeah, I don’t want to do that. A decade ago, I also had a sort of Marxist arrogance where I believed all race issues are actually just class issues, but if the last few years have taught me anything, it’s that racism exists apart from classism...there are very valid reasons black Americans may not trust white progressives.
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Jul 3, 2020 03:18
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The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down, and whisper "Shouldn't have voted against your own interests lol"
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Jul 3, 2020 03:40
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Sleeveless posted:The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down, and whisper "Shouldn't have voted against your own interests lol" Nice. I was hoping the punchline would be worth it.
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Jul 3, 2020 05:12
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Sleeveless posted:The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down, and whisper "Shouldn't have voted against your own interests lol" This is amazing.
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Jul 3, 2020 06:28
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Sleeveless posted:The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down, and whisper "Shouldn't have voted against your own interests lol" 
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Jul 3, 2020 06:44
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The sleeper hit is the "Well, actually, the poor relationship between black and jewish New Yorkers only dates back to a specific incident in 1991, fully seven years after Jesse Jackson tanked his presidential campaign by talking about 'Hymietown' for apparently no reason." Most racially ignorant thing I've seen on these forums since pre-Iraq when people were still using the N-word "ironically".
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Jul 3, 2020 07:53
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Xealot posted:Yeah, I don’t want to do that. A decade ago, I also had a sort of Marxist arrogance where I believed all race issues are actually just class issues, but if the last few years have taught me anything, it’s that racism exists apart from classism...there are very valid reasons black Americans may not trust white progressives. On the one hand, no war but class war. But let's win the race war right loving now. It has to happen first; our black brothers and sisters need the help, they deserve the help, they need it now, and that will break the divide and conquer strategy being played by the capitalist class.
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Jul 3, 2020 08:44
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mllaneza posted:On the one hand, no war but class war. But let's win the race war right loving now. It has to happen first; our black brothers and sisters need the help, they deserve the help, they need it now, and that will break the divide and conquer strategy being played by the capitalist class. If people haven't read Black Marxism, now is a good time. If you (the generalized you, the reader. Not the person I am quoting) discovered Black Wallstreet through this show (no shame, we all have stuff we need to learn) that should be the next book you purchase. Your local lefty bookstore or your local black owned bookstore should be happy to buy it for you. Amazon has it too, I am sure, though I feel like that is cheating. Incelshok Na fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 08:50
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Incelshok Na posted:The sleeper hit is the "Well, actually, the poor relationship between black and jewish New Yorkers only dates back to a specific incident in 1991, fully seven years after Jesse Jackson tanked his presidential campaign by talking about 'Hymietown' for apparently no reason." Yeah, I phrased my initial post stupidly, mis-using “provenance” when I meant “precedent.” Obviously it’s a tension with more than a century of history behind it. I meant to say that, contrary to the assertion it’s some vestigial thing dating back to the 30’s or earlier, there are very recent events that inform that tension in recent history. As well. Another poster implied that anti-Jewish sentiment among the black community might seem odd or unprecedented if viewed through a modern lens, and I was arguing that this is untrue; it’s also a tension that continues to reaffirm itself in younger generations now. I’ve met people from that community who are younger and black, and that incident is the thing they pointed to to justify an anti-Jewish bias. Xealot fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 22:43
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Incelshok Na posted:Most racially ignorant thing I've seen on these forums since pre-Iraq when people were still using the N-word "ironically". This was Dave Chappelle's fault for not explicitly explaining to The Whites that it wasn't for them. 
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Jul 3, 2020 23:43
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Xealot posted:Yeah, I phrased my initial post stupidly, mis-using “provenance” when I meant “precedent.” Obviously it’s a tension with more than a century of history behind it. I meant to say that, contrary to the assertion it’s some vestigial thing dating back to the 30’s or earlier, there are very recent events that inform that tension in recent history. As well. That makes way more sense. When I lived in the Bronx, my Dominican neighbors had some *choice* words about Jews. The core renter/landlord dynamic is still very real and breeds a lot of resentment.
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Jul 4, 2020 03:21
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The show also explicitly talks about the roots of Hooded Justice's pro-German leanings with the scene where he gets the leaflet from the Germans when he's a soldier in World War I. It makes sense that he would be sympathetic to Germany from that point onwards.
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Jul 4, 2020 04:03
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TychoCelchuuu posted:The show also explicitly talks about the roots of Hooded Justice's pro-German leanings with the scene where he gets the leaflet from the Germans when he's a soldier in World War I. It makes sense that he would be sympathetic to Germany from that point onwards. That was his father
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Jul 4, 2020 04:04
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Yeah, he only knew of the flyer because his dad wrote the “look over this boy” message on it. I imagine he probably read it many times, though. Rewatching this show and it’s still so fuckin great
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Jul 4, 2020 06:49
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Am I the only one who thinks Dr Manhattan wasn't supposed to actually be dead? Along with all the parallels to the end of the comic, it seemed pretty heavily to hint that the machine was destroyed before his essence or whetever was transferred. Veight disintegrated him, too, and he chastised him that it would only slow him down because he's Dr. Goddamn Manhattan, putting himself together is his oldest trick. The egg could just be his way of creating a being like himself so he's not an eternal lonely naked man anymore.
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Jul 8, 2020 15:18
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Ugly In The Morning posted:That was his father
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Jul 9, 2020 09:15
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Wild T posted:Am I the only one who thinks Dr Manhattan wasn't supposed to actually be dead? Along with all the parallels to the end of the comic, it seemed pretty heavily to hint that the machine was destroyed before his essence or whetever was transferred. Veight disintegrated him, too, and he chastised him that it would only slow him down because he's Dr. Goddamn Manhattan, putting himself together is his oldest trick. The egg could just be his way of creating a being like himself so he's not an eternal lonely naked man anymore.
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Jul 9, 2020 15:11
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KoRMaK posted:Absolutely agree I think the biggest clue was the glowing Dr M remaining after the climax concluded, hinting that he was still a part of the story. If that's the case, it's also a nice bit of character growth for John. He has his powers forced on him a second time, again because of his love of a woman. But this time instead of eventually isolating himself from her and ultimately humanity, he offers her a chance to voluntarily become like him and help him become a better deity. Presumably his foresight is messed up around the time of his capture because of the tachyon emitters the Cavalry used, but he knew to deliberately foretell her about the eggs and the swimming pool. That's enough to tell the audience that he's aware of events after he 'dies', implying he'll eventually return.
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Jul 9, 2020 15:38
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Jul 19, 2020 22:54
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Emmy nominations are out, and we can see this incredibly lovely show that no one liked leads with -26- nominations, including Best Limited Series, Lead Actor (Irons & King), and 3 of the 6 supporting actor in a limited series noms + Agent Blake for the ladies. Half the directing noms for Limited Series are Watchmen episodes. Those of you claiming this is a poor quality series are now officially out of your motherfucking minds.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:11
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the professional tv writers and critics always liked the show. doesn't mean it can't still suck rear end, sorry.
Thom and the Heads fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 17:28
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How is Jeremy Irons considered a lead actor in this?
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Jul 28, 2020 17:33
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:How is Jeremy Irons considered a lead actor in this? Because he's Jeremy Fuckin' Irons. He came into this production to make bank and grab nominations... and he's all outta banks.
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Jul 28, 2020 18:59
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:Emmy nominations are out, and we can see this incredibly lovely show that no one liked leads with -26- nominations, including Best Limited Series, Lead Actor (Irons & King), and 3 of the 6 supporting actor in a limited series noms + Agent Blake for the ladies. I don't disagree with your conclusion but the emmys are garbage. Modern Family is apparently the best comedy of all time and Game of Thrones Season 8 was a masterpiece.
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Jul 28, 2020 21:07
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:How is Jeremy Irons considered a lead actor in this? It's the most obvious choice; he's the only actor with something to do in every episode (or closer to it than anyone else), and like tarlibone said, he's Jeremy fuckin' Irons. You could make a reasonable case to submit Abdul-Mateen, but he really doesn't have much to do for the front half of the series. Emmy rules state that people can generally submit themselves (or others) for whatever, and they'll generally accept it. Assuming HBO campaigned for Irons to be considered the lead, I can't imagine they'd decide someone else is the male lead.
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Jul 28, 2020 21:45
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The Walrus posted:I don't disagree with your conclusion but the emmys are garbage. Modern Family is apparently the best comedy of all time and Game of Thrones Season 8 was a masterpiece. People claiming that awards shows don't matter and nobody cares about them while exhibiting encyclopedic knowledge of the past decade+ of nominees and winners of said awards shows is always really funny.
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Jul 29, 2020 00:08
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Congratulations to the cast & crew of The Watchmen for their 26 Emmy nominations.
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Jul 29, 2020 00:25
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:How is Jeremy Irons considered a lead actor in this? They should have categories for "Best actor in an ensemble cast"
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Jul 29, 2020 03:45
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How is it possible to watch the first few minutes of the series and say it has nothing to say about race when this is the first most people have heard about the Tulsa massacre or Black Wall Street at all? Jesus that first five minutes made an actual difference in terms of what people know about race relations.
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Jul 31, 2020 00:36
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I feel like the general consensus is that the show is amazing from the start, reaches an incredibly high peak with the flashback episode, then just kind of shits the bed by switching focus to some really uninspired scifi. The show spends a lot of time building up themes about racism and legacy, and establishing history for Tulsa and American occupied Vietnam and showing racial resentment, then it all kind of gets sidelined so that they can have an episode that's just Dr. Manhattan's chapter from the comic, and have a big climax where everyone wants to suck the blue juice out of the blue man while jeremy irons acted sassy. I feel like the whole climax was dragged down by going incredibly hard on inclusion of the old watchmen characters, where Dr. Manhattan felt like a macguffin to an entirely different story, Ozymandias was carrying an entirely pointless mystery box story, Laurie felt entirely useless, and the whole story probably would've benefited from a clean break from the old watchmen stuff.
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Jul 31, 2020 05:01
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That is not by any means the general consensus
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Jul 31, 2020 05:58
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There really isn't one to be honest. It was certainly one of three pronounced views when the show was airing, though. (The other two being "it's all good" and "it's all bad")
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Jul 31, 2020 07:21
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To me, Ozy’s arc was the series’ Black Freighter.
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Jul 31, 2020 12:14
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I feels like it's intended to be that, but even if you find allegory in Ozymandias' journey, it isn't like the Sea Captain in Black Freighter showed up in issue 12 of Watchmen to talk to the other characters.
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Jul 31, 2020 12:31
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Boxman posted:I feels like it's intended to be that, but even if you find allegory in Ozymandias' journey, it isn't like the Sea Captain in Black Freighter showed up in issue 12 of Watchmen to talk to the other characters. Whoo cares? Why does it have to exactly match the same beats from the comic
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Jul 31, 2020 12:52
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KoRMaK posted:Whoo cares? Why does it have to exactly match the same beats from the comic Look, I think we can all agree that the show's two biggest flaws are that it's too different from the comics and that it's too similar to the comics.
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Jul 31, 2020 14:02
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