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Lan basically never sleeps and notices everything cause he’s Superman. He should have noticed three people missing immediately.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:34
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He went out looking for them from memory
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Jul 4, 2020 05:40
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Also, three ta'veren were loving with free will and fate. Lack of rest and bad choices were probably being forced to get that knife in Mat's hands. e. It's not fair to blame every fuckup on "What the hell just happened?" "Ta'veren" "Oh, right." though. rndmnmbr fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 05:48
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Yeah, remember the way the scene plays out everyone except the boys and Thom go inside to get Moiraine settled leaving the horses to the boys and Thom. Then Thom goes off for a smoke while they're supposed to be stabling the horses and that's when the wonder boys get the bright idea to wander off. Thom and Lan probably noticed after a few minutes and Lan was explicitly out looking for them when they came back.
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Jul 4, 2020 07:23
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As I said. The real culprit was that they were dumb fuckin teenagers.
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Jul 4, 2020 08:04
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Data Graham posted:Excuse me I think the term is “terminal moiraine”
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Jul 4, 2020 17:55
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I tried way of kings and man if you compare the first ~100 pages of eye of the world and the first 100 pages of Way of Kings...like gently caress, Robert Jordan really did it right
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Jul 5, 2020 01:30
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Way of Kings' prologue has special problems. One thing that's cool about it is that all the books' prologues cover that exact same night, just from different PoVs. But Szeth's anime PoV was probably not the best one to start the series with.
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Jul 5, 2020 09:37
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that, then the next chapter about the nation of people that are all really handsome and deadly warriors but also super smart, then the next chapter about the captain who goes around saving wayward recruits by enlisting them in his elite squad, and never loses, just like... Come on. what rj does well for the most part is show rather than tell personality traits. the exception that comes immediately to mind is Galad. even then, characters say galad is "good to a fault" and you think what could that even possibly mean? then he goes and immediately tattles to morgase and it makes sense kind of.
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Jul 5, 2020 14:39
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quote:what rj does well for the most part is show rather than tell personality traits. the exception that comes immediately to mind is Galad. even then, characters say galad is "good to a fault" and you think what could that even possibly mean? then he goes and immediately tattles to morgase and it makes sense kind of. Halfway into TGS and I can tell it's a different writer. It feels like Sanderson peppers his paragraphs with similes - everything is like this, doing that. And his dialogue is a lot more stilted. People go on long monologues, explaining everything to the most minute detail. The Hinderstap resolution where the mayor carefully lays everything over a couple minutes of dialogue is a particularly egregious example of the tendency.
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Jul 5, 2020 17:18
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CharlesThunder posted:that, then the next chapter about the nation of people that are all really handsome and deadly warriors but also super smart, then the next chapter about the captain who goes around saving wayward recruits by enlisting them in his elite squad, and never loses, just like... Come on. It's like you never even finished that one chapter about the wayward recruits or you are going out of your way to misrepresent what's going on.
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Jul 5, 2020 18:08
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I like the Stormlight Archives a lot but yeah, just comparing the initial flashback-to-several-thousand-years-ago scenes in EotW and TWoK makes it pretty clear that Jordan is much better and world-building in a way that feels natural.
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Jul 5, 2020 18:34
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Prairie Bus posted:People go on long monologues, explaining everything to the most minute detail. But enough about ... Jordan?
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Jul 5, 2020 18:53
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socialsecurity posted:It's like you never even finished that one chapter about the wayward recruits or you are going out of your way to misrepresent what's going on. he might be exaggerating to comic effect (another thing BS can’t do because he has no sense of humor) was listening to the TGH chapter of rand at the Cairhein cocktail party and laughing out loud as he stumbles through getting hit on by multiple scheming noblewomen and saying way more than he intended. Subtle but hilarious.
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Jul 5, 2020 19:02
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I like most of the way the Game of Houses plays out with the boys involved, they're all such total rubes that they talk straightforward and the schemers all go, "ahh poo poo what's he trying to hide here," and wind themselves up. I think at a few points someone even explicitly points it out, but it's a solid and good throughline until Rand wisens up and starts actually scheming himself.
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Jul 5, 2020 20:04
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Finished up Dragon Reborn reread and the ending avalanche really comes together better than anything in the first two books: the aes sedai girls arriving and getting captured, mat showing up to look for them, perrin and moirane and co. arriving and immediately realizing poo poo's going down, then Rand appearing out of nowhere at the Stone. all extremely good one scene that owns that i'd totally forgot about is nynaeve et al. getting rescued by aviendha and co. the bit where the aiel instantly kill all the darkfriends and start taunting the three Fades, then the girls burst out and collectively start burning them, crushing them into a ball, and then nynaeve instinctually uses balefire is such a fantastic "our heroes have levelled up and previously-impossible foes are now chumps" moment eke out fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jul 5, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 21:05
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buffalo all day posted:he might be exaggerating to comic effect (another thing BS can’t do because he has no sense of humor) then rand runs into Thom at the party and he's apparently hosed every one of the noblewomen. there's some quote about one of them giving "the type of education every man should have in their lifetime," something like that but much funnier.
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Jul 5, 2020 21:52
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Eh he could just know their reputations.
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Jul 5, 2020 22:01
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You have it pretty much exact.quote:“I see someone I must speak to,” Rand told the women, and squeezed out of the box they had put him in just as the last woman reached for his arm. All three stared after him as he hurried to the gleeman.
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Jul 5, 2020 22:02
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So I guess going into dreamland physically doesn’t really corrupt you like everyone keeps saying throughout the books.
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Jul 6, 2020 04:47
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Invalid Validation posted:So I guess going into dreamland physically doesn’t really corrupt you like everyone keeps saying throughout the books. Egwene put the lie to that belief when she traveled by dream to Salidar before becoming Amyrlin. Perrin’s wolves had the better understanding- it’s just very dangerous.
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Jul 6, 2020 05:17
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a lot of people are working off of rumors and poo poo regarding this stuff half the time. like, who really wants to be the person to extensively test that kind of thing?
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Jul 6, 2020 05:21
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I dunno, I think the point the Wise Women were making is that every time you do it you lose a little part of yourself. Doing it once as Egwene did, or a handful of times like Rand did isn't that bad. But do it a lot, and you can see the effects that it has on you. Even Perrin was starting to fray by the end of the Last Battle, and he'd had some training in it from Hopper and the other wolves. Try to live there and you get hosed up badly, the way Slayer was.
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Jul 6, 2020 05:24
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I kind of assume if Jordan hadn’t died he would have shown how the corruption worked eventually but Sanderson didn’t want to deal with it when he needed the time for the big parts. It’s just kind of hand waved away in the second to last or last book, whichever one it was.
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Jul 6, 2020 05:27
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It was also known to be something the Forsaken did, and you can easily see it getting lost in translation over the thousands of years
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Jul 6, 2020 05:28
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Its also worth pointing out that its extremely dangerous and very very easy to die or disappear when you're in Tel'aran'rhoid. The fact that reality becomes malleable based on the will of the dreamer and things like being pulled into dreams or nightmares is a thing, it makes a lot of sense why everyone cautions people. Like there are no rules there. Stray thoughts can kill. You can fundamentally warp reality in some insane ways. And we see time and again with Perrin that the more time you spend in there, the more you lose yourself. He's usually a gibbering wreck who can barely hold onto a single thought by the end of most of his longer jaunts and fights there.
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Jul 6, 2020 06:06
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Invalid Validation posted:I kind of assume if Jordan hadn’t died he would have shown how the corruption worked eventually but Sanderson didn’t want to deal with it when he needed the time for the big parts. It’s just kind of hand waved away in the second to last or last book, whichever one it was. Thinking about it, does Sanderson ever explain why Egwene didn’t just dream travel out of the Tower once her captivity ramped up? Forkroot doesn’t interrupt her ability to enter the dream. Where I’m at in TGS she’s in the cell and thinking about escape. Why doesn’t she just dream herself out? She’d look super powerful (she can travel when dosed to the gills on forkroot) and could just dream back into the Tower to foment dissent on her own time.
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Jul 6, 2020 06:14
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Prairie Bus posted:Thinking about it, does Sanderson ever explain why Egwene didn’t just dream travel out of the Tower once her captivity ramped up? Forkroot doesn’t interrupt her ability to enter the dream. Where I’m at in TGS she’s in the cell and thinking about escape. Why doesn’t she just dream herself out? She’d look super powerful (she can travel when dosed to the gills on forkroot) and could just dream back into the Tower to foment dissent on her own time. Masochism.
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Jul 6, 2020 06:23
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Every time Rand or Egwene entered the dream in the flesh they did it by weaving a gateway to the dream world. She wouldn't have been able to do that when dosed up on forkroot because. Perrin is the only one who learned how to enter in the flesh without some form of channelling involved; and it's unclear if all dreamwalkers can do that or if it's tied to Perrin's wolf powers.
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Jul 6, 2020 06:42
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Prairie Bus posted:Thinking about it, does Sanderson ever explain why Egwene didn’t just dream travel out of the Tower once her captivity ramped up? Forkroot doesn’t interrupt her ability to enter the dream. Where I’m at in TGS she’s in the cell and thinking about escape. Why doesn’t she just dream herself out? She’d look super powerful (she can travel when dosed to the gills on forkroot) and could just dream back into the Tower to foment dissent on her own time. She's trying to convince the Aes Sedai who stayed behind in the Tower to accept her as Amyrlin instead of Elaida. A lot of the sisters who stayed behind did so specifically because they believe in following the rules (Elaida was legally chosen after all, or at least it appeared legal to people who didn't know about the Black Ajah's involvement). By staying in jail and using argument to convince the sisters that she's being wrongly held, Egwene is demonstrating that she cares more about the Tower's laws and institutions than Elaida does. If she broke out, that would be her breaking those laws and defying those institutions, making her just as bad as Elaida in their eyes. It's a political move - Egwene has to stay in jail in order to win over a bunch of Elaida's support. In the short term it helps Egwene topple Elaida, and in the medium term it lets her reunite the Tower instead of leaving it splintered.
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Jul 6, 2020 08:06
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Also it's not like she was in any physical danger at that point, even from the Black.
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Jul 6, 2020 15:00
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The Lord Bude posted:Every time Rand or Egwene entered the dream in the flesh they did it by weaving a gateway to the dream world. She wouldn't have been able to do that when dosed up on forkroot because. Perrin is the only one who learned how to enter in the flesh without some form of channelling involved; and it's unclear if all dreamwalkers can do that or if it's tied to Perrin's wolf powers. Thanks, I guess I conflated them all together with Perrin’s process.
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Jul 6, 2020 15:05
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I don't think we've seen anybody but Slayer enter the dream in the flesh without using the One Power. Even Perrin in the Last Battle has Rand open a portal to Tel'aran'rhiod for him.
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Jul 6, 2020 15:10
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Torrannor posted:I don't think we've seen anybody but Slayer enter the dream in the flesh without using the One Power. Even Perrin in the Last Battle has Rand open a portal to Tel'aran'rhiod for him. Doesn't he figure out a way to flicker back and forth between T'A'R and reality?
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Jul 6, 2020 15:18
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Doesn't he figure out a way to flicker back and forth between T'A'R and reality? Yeah, he escapes from TAR on his own and then later surprises the poo poo out of Slayer toward the end of their ongoing duel when he follows him in and out of the dream on his own, but it is rather late in the game by then. He gets several portals in and out up to that point - when Lanfear/Cyndane is helping him she even foreshadows his ability by refusing to make him a portal and saying he has to learn to do it by himself.
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Jul 6, 2020 15:32
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Invalid Validation posted:I kind of assume if Jordan hadn’t died he would have shown how the corruption worked eventually but Sanderson didn’t want to deal with it when he needed the time for the big parts. It’s just kind of hand waved away in the second to last or last book, whichever one it was. Invalid Validation posted:So I guess going into dreamland physically doesn’t really corrupt you like everyone keeps saying throughout the books. Jordan actually did do a "word from God" clarification. It's dangerous, but not evil. The Wise Ones were being superstitious, the same way they talked about men entering the dreaming.
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Jul 6, 2020 20:24
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Perrin going DBZ and magically jumping around TAN Is one of my least favorite parts of the series.
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Jul 6, 2020 20:25
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I think Jordan was going for something on the danger of small-c conservative thinking and ossified orthodoxy. Healing is a great (and historically appropriate) example - the Aes Sedai are locked into their lovely battlefield Healing through a fear of the one power, the legitimate danger, and the force of tradition. Then Nynaeve (and eventually Sumiko) comes from outside the orthodoxy like a bolt of lightning to dramatically change how healing is done entirely. In the real world, western medicine orthodoxy was stuck on Galen’s / Ibn Sina’s theory of the humors for centuries. I’ve been thinking a little bit about how Rand and the prophecy of the dragon more generally fit into the concept of creative destruction. At the start of the books, Jordan keeps mentioning that every nation is unable to exert its laws far beyond its capital and that most nations are in decline. The prophecies focus on how much Rand will destroy, and he caused chaos in every nation he went to by destroying the old orthodoxy. But that chaos was usually followed by beneficial changes for the people. Cairhien was nearly swallowed by rioting and famine after Rand made the game of houses collapse in on itself, but he was able to build strong institutions following that period of unrest. Cairhien came out of it as a strong city (even though it was swallowed by Andor).
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Jul 6, 2020 21:09
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UltraRed posted:Perrin going DBZ and magically jumping around TAN Is one of my least favorite parts of the series. I liked most of it, if for no other reason than it set up one of the greatest lines in the series and a well deserved comeuppance for a character.
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Jul 6, 2020 21:14
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Wish Jordan would have let Perrin accept being a wolf brother a lot earlier cause he’s rad as poo poo when he accepts who he is instead of moping about it for 11 books.
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Jul 6, 2020 21:22
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