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Haifisch posted:The cool kids have their rc files set to autobutcher and also autoeat chunks. Yeah if you weren’t doing this already I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but a meal ain’t one
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Jul 7, 2020 06:53
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I feel like there's some value in food as a timer to encourage not just taking the slowest most cautious possible strategy and to make certain branches a bit more dangerous.
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Jul 7, 2020 06:56
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Haifisch posted:The cool kids have their rc files set to autobutcher and also autoeat chunks. hell yeah
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Jul 7, 2020 07:10
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The extremely crucial game mechanic that you can automate with a script
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Jul 7, 2020 07:53
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I mean the only real argument for the existence of chunks is purple chunks, and they're gone now.
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Jul 7, 2020 08:02
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food has not served its purpose as a means to push forward progression/exploration in ages, and it's fine to see it gone imo
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Jul 7, 2020 08:21
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weirdly chilly pussy posted:The extremely crucial game mechanic that you can automate with a script it's crucial because it means that i don't have to pay attention to the hunger clock, which is a bad mechanic that makes the game worse but is basically completely negated by chunks now that chunks are gone, hunger is something i have to care about, which i hate because of how stupid and bad and not good it is, what a bad mechanic, no
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Jul 7, 2020 08:22
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weirdly chilly pussy posted:The extremely crucial game mechanic that you can automate with a script Removing chunks but retaining hunger is a big change to zerkers wanting to evoke invis and invoke rage all the time though, holy cow.
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Jul 7, 2020 08:32
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I feel like if they're going to remove chunks they might as well go all the way and change Ghouls to have a racial version of Makhleb's heal-on-kill, rather than keeping it just to annoy them. It also seems kind of weird to remove spell hunger AND chunks, in the sense that just removing chunks might actually make hunger a relevant timer mechanic. Making hunger even more vestigial to the net effect of "certain god powers are slightly less spammable" is silly, you might as well remove it entirely. I wouldn't miss it and it'd certainly make Troll runs spend less time zigagging between corpses.
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Jul 7, 2020 09:31
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To me the salient point of all this is that once again the words "trunk" and "remove" are the update. Sometimes there's a "change", but when's the last time we got an "add"?
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Jul 7, 2020 10:54
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Well, experimental has those beetle-taurs (at the cost of centaurs which feels very wrong because centaurs are both flavorful & a good race to teach a lot of game concepts without being boring or over/underpowered) so some things might be added in the future.
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Jul 7, 2020 12:10
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things are occasionally added, generally after about 10 other things have just been removed
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Jul 7, 2020 13:27
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Unimpressed posted:To me the salient point of all this is that once again the words "trunk" and "remove" are the update. Sometimes there's a "change", but when's the last time we got an "add"? It's true, but not necessarily bad. Game is still fun to play and I like the reworked elemental magicks. Not sure how I feel about the planned change to include only one of the four lair branches per game.
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Jul 7, 2020 14:15
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Chakan posted:Well, experimental has those beetle-taurs (at the cost of centaurs which feels very wrong because centaurs are both flavorful & a good race to teach a lot of game concepts without being boring or over/underpowered) so some things might be added in the future. The "remove the generic fantasy races" goal is utterly bizarre to me. For background, I loving hate the generic D&D fantasy creatures that have colonized the collective nerd unconscious, because they make fantasy just as mundane as reality, just in a different way. Even the worst thought out gonzo 70s science-fantasy setting is leaps and bounds ahead of arrogant agile humans with pointy ears or short gruff beardy humans that live in mines. That said, elves and dwarves and the like are a perfect fit for Crawl. The game has no larger narrative outside the dungeon, so there's no world that needs building. However, give a new player a chance to pick an elf and they'll immediately recognize it as shorthand for good at bows and magic, but physically weak. Show them an orc and they'll know they have a fighty guy who's not great at magic. The generic races are a great onboarding tool for new players, since their strengths and weaknesses are so obvious that they get a leg up on the basic play. The actual gonzo races in Crawl, like the sentient octopi and giant ant-men and literal cats, are a great place to stick weird gimmicks and advanced playstyles. They definitely have a place, but you need that baseline to make them stand out (and to have a core experience from which stranger species can deviate). What I'm saying is beetle centaurs sound cool, but removing the familiar version of the same theme doesn't do anything to help the game. New players will see a centaur and say "Oh, horse-man, probably runs fast" and be absolutely correct and have a great character to teach the movement system, but seeing a beetle-man with a one-sentence descriptor does nothing to prepare them for whatever it does. Anyway, if you could make the drink a Diet Coke that'd be aces.
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Jul 7, 2020 14:32
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Big Mad Drongo posted:Anyway, if you could make the drink a Diet Coke that'd be aces. Sincerity is back in my friend, its ok to care about things now but yeah i agree. i never play centaurs but they were fun when i was just starting and removing them for being OP (the rationale afaict) is dumb because there are quite a few races who are way stronger than others yet will never be removed (demonspawn i'm looking @ u)
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Jul 7, 2020 14:44
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I don't really mind them getting rid of generic races because it's one of the things that annoyed me the most about, for example, games like Pillars of Eternity 2. "Here's a human, here's a different human, here are two types of elf, here's a dwarf, here's a furry dwarf. Have fun with that." I'm just like, if you're going to give me eight races to choose from, give me a reason to pick one over the other. No idea why they'd get rid of centaurs because of that, though. I mean, how many games can you play centaurs in? I can't think of another one other than Crawl right now.
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Jul 7, 2020 14:58
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just had a gnoll sergeant and a massive pack of buddies on D2, i am being specifically targeted and i do not like it.
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Jul 7, 2020 15:27
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hey crawl devs, having two types of barding is weird and dumb, we've been complaining for years. please fix
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Jul 7, 2020 16:05
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i don't think anyone would be able to convince me that centaurs are in any way more interesting than beetle-taurs so i really don't care about that change
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Jul 7, 2020 16:16
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No species is inherently more interesting than any other in Crawl, is the thing. There's no plot or world, so if you find the High Elf's aptitudes/item slots make for more compelling gameplay than an Octopode, the High Elf is more interesting outside of the character creation screen. My main problem is the devs seem to be doing their damndest to make the game completely opaque to newcomers, and while this is a really minor sin on that front it's part of a larger pattern.
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Jul 7, 2020 16:22
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a fatguy baldspot posted:Sincerity is back in my friend, its ok to care about things now It's always been dumb to me because hey, races being over/underpowered is kinda part of the point Look at all of the easy races, sure some of them are easy because they're just simple to play. But a lot of them are easy because they're really goddamn strong. Part of the balancing is, hey new guy, here's a couple of dudes that will let you smash through the early game, you'll want to play these characters to make it easier on yourself while you're learning the game. So like, removing races because they're too strong really does nothing but make things way, way harder for newbies. And also piss off veterans who liked those races too.
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Jul 7, 2020 17:00
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just died of starvation for the first time in...probably since i first started playing back in .08. that was otherwise a really fun game, but since i couldn't eat chunks and there were just no rations to be found, i died. extremely cool and not frustrating death at all. love to get killed by a mechanic i cannot interact with and could have done nothing about. very fun. love it
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Jul 7, 2020 17:08
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Why would they not push a change like that to trunk first so that it can be tested by people willing to play with off the cuff, unbalanced mechanics?
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Jul 7, 2020 17:27
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a fatguy baldspot posted:just died of starvation for the first time in...probably since i first started playing back in .08. that was otherwise a really fun game, but since i couldn't eat chunks and there were just no rations to be found, i died. extremely cool and not frustrating death at all. love to get killed by a mechanic i cannot interact with and could have done nothing about. very fun. love it Was wondering if this would start happening or not. Your fault for not finding a randomly generated resource essential to your survival! Git gud!
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Jul 7, 2020 17:29
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Honestly, they should've realized long before testing this in practice that "no casting hunger" cannot possibly be a meaningful balance for the removal of chunks, because not all characters use magic anyway and the game was already balanced for that!
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Jul 7, 2020 17:33
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yeah i also just got banned for complaining in the crawl irc because...i guess i used a curse word? i said the devs' recent history of changes have been pretty awful but this one takes the cake? incredible snowflake energy in there
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Jul 7, 2020 17:49
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a fatguy baldspot posted:cmon oh no dont ban me from the 80s chat client. what will i do If you don't want to test the game don't play trunk, imo. For others, if you have no rations left in trunk, I'd suggest you stop playing for now unless you're fine with starving.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:13
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Thank you devs for making mummies great again
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Jul 7, 2020 18:31
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odiv posted:I guess the answer was complain on a dead web forum? give me back my game you bootlicker
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Jul 7, 2020 18:37
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Haha, you disingenuous whiner. "i guess i used a curse word?" Obviously changes need balancing. It sucks you lost your character, but you don't have to be a dick about it. Go play a stable version of the game.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:42
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Johnny Joestar posted:i don't think anyone would be able to convince me that centaurs are in any way more interesting than beetle-taurs so i really don't care about that change Why not... and stick with me here... have BOTH? FulsomFrank posted:Was wondering if this would start happening or not. Oh hey thanks for reminding me why I abandoned Crawl in the first place! Those posts from the devs always infuriated me and I was only reading them being sent to other people.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:44
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Kchama posted:Why not... and stick with me here... have BOTH? if they had any interaction with players outside of their lovely little echo chamber they would've realized what a dumb change this is. but then they wouldn't be the same devs who've ruined the game and alienated their playerbase and we wouldn't be having this convo in the first place. ive no doubt they'll stick with it and claim everyone who complains is just a whiner. like lmao we're already seeing it live in this very thread. it owns
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Jul 7, 2020 18:50
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I'm not a dev and I barely play. I came back because of the tournament to play a bit and haven't played since. Probably won't until the next tournament. This is a problem change and it will be reverted or fixed in some way (maybe hunger will go away completely?). It would frustrate me a lot to run in to this change too! Unplayable changes, bad ideas, and other poo poo has gotten added to trunk in the past and been reverted. That's what trunk is for. Yeah, some bad changes have stayed in my opinion. (I miss dmsl wands.  )People have been complaining about food and hunger for a while now. It seems like they're looking at fixing that and it would be cool if they do. You're not going to come up with a problem free implementation on the first pass. Where do they try this poo poo out if not trunk? I called you a whiner because you were being disingenuous about being banned for "swearing".
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Jul 7, 2020 18:59
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a fatguy baldspot posted:if they had any interaction with players outside of their lovely little echo chamber they would've realized what a dumb change this is. but then they wouldn't be the same devs who've ruined the game and alienated their playerbase and we wouldn't be having this convo in the first place. Counterpoint: the devs are ok, game is still fun.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:59
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weirdly chilly pussy posted:Counterpoint: the devs are ok, game is still fun. i mean i wouldn't play if the game wasn't fun but the devs are pretty bad. just let me have this, i need a w, my gf dumped me this weekend
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Jul 7, 2020 19:02
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a fatguy baldspot posted:i mean i wouldn't play if the game wasn't fun but the devs are pretty bad. just let me have this, i need a w, my gf dumped me this weekend Maybe if you were better at Crawl you wouldn't be single
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Jul 7, 2020 19:19
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I'm of the opinnion that centaurs were actually a miserable race to play as doing anything other than kiting poo poo with a bow. I never had fun as them. They are shockingly bad at actually fighting stuff and surviving, especially if you go outside their very niche comfort zone. They're a design relic from when fast movement speed trivialized a ton of the game. Still would rather see them reworked than just cut though.
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Jul 8, 2020 00:46
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Lmao at the idea of removing a race for being overpowered and leaving gargoyles in.
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Jul 8, 2020 01:00
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For a development update, sorry I haven't really put out much after adding wizard keys and forgetting to fix them and make them spawn right for a month and a half. Turns out I actually had a workload to accomplish during teleworking compared to my expectations. Going to try to knock out small bugs that I've seen mentioned when I have free time instead of the big stuff so there's some updates: -Change cacodemons to not use the corrosive smite spell so they don't corrode through walls when you can't see them -Look into the Lava Orc/Mara interaction crash -Add "Last Pledge" tab button support (this one is probably going to be tricky) -Change the out of depth formula for vault placements to not be so awful (or just delete the_grid) -Djinni will autobutcher and collect rations even though they are useless (likely due to the requirement of letting them eat purple chunks) -Fix Ashenzari for new Felid equipment set -Fix octopode playerdoll helmet offset -Add color change to indicate spell enhancement for Dragon Call while in Dragon Form (I was lazy) Please mention any other ones that I've forgotten to record. Also, this list of things left is like 2 years old at this point: https://github.com/Floodkiller/crawl/blob/gooncrawl/crawl-ref/docs/gooncrawl/development_plan.txt Tell me what is still important to get done as is, what should probably have a new idea/implementation, and what isn't worth pursuing anymore. I think after this, we should probably just do individual feature votes and then I work on those one at a time instead of a making a giant rear end 2 year old list that barely anyone remembers (or for computer touchers/managers, swap to Agile development instead of Waterfall).
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Jul 8, 2020 01:16
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weirdly chilly pussy posted:Counterpoint: the devs are ok, game is still fun. they're not, and fun's continued existence is an oversight
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Jul 8, 2020 01:28
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