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eke out
Feb 24, 2013



PetraCore posted:

Are people calling it homophobic because they want Fjord to be in a relationship with a guy?

it's 100% this lol

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Pocky In My Pocket
Jan 27, 2005

Giant robots shouldn't fight!






Fjord/clay is a popular ship my friends

Giant Tourtiere
Aug 4, 2006

TRICHER
POUR
GAGNER
Matt's lowkey panicked 'Sayyyy do you want to check out that clearing a bit closer or are you just moving on" resonates with every DM.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

PetraCore posted:

EDIT: And like the one person Fjord has been openly sexual with was not a guy, so I don't know how any of this is homophobic? Are people calling it homophobic because they want Fjord to be in a relationship with a guy? Isn't that just projecting what they want onto him and declaring things problematic because of it? I could absolutely see Fjord being bisexual but it's not exactly canon at this point...

There's a joke on the show Community about how if you slow down the interaction between any two people and play something like Sara Bareilles' 'Gravity' over it anything can look like a budding romance. And fandoms do it like all the time.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

PetraCore posted:

Changing the subject a bit, I'm not really sure what the homophobic jokes directed towards Fjord are supposed to be, especially because I don't think Fjord has shown very strong attraction towards anyone...?

Is this another comments thing? Cause if there was homophobic jokes in the episode itself, they flew right over my head. That aside, I fell off campaign one for the last few months after finishing the Chroma Conclave stuff, and took about 5 attempts over the last week to get through episode 93; the one where they battle the fiend in Dis, then kill the tiger thing targeting Vax. I finally got back in to the swing of it now though, and man, episode 94 is a loving blast. Pretty much everything after they get to the bar till the morning after is gold, between Tary trying to flirt, Pike and Grog hanging out, Percy spying on Scanlon, Tary recounting his night with Trisha etc. The last part pretty much broke the whole crew.

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

It doesn't bother me when fans ship any random poo poo that makes no sense to me or have opinions about characters that I think are bizarre or baseless. That's just fandom being fandom and it's being going on forever. The problem arises when fans forget that it's just their personal views and start getting upset with the show/book/movie/whatever for not following their ideas. IE, it's cool if you think Fjord is gay (if a little baseless bc Avantika did happen but sure, it's not like closeted gay men have never slept with women) but it crosses a line when you start saying CR is homophobic for not "showing" that Fjord is gay, because in your mind he totally is and therefore any failure to show that is covering it up for some reason. And that's the point that Losebetter and his weird followers are at.

Pinwiz11
Jan 26, 2009

I'm becom-, I'm becom-,
I'm becoming
Tana in, Tana in my mind.



OMG Tal this is evil.

e: The Narrative Telephone arms race just escalated and it owns.

Pinwiz11 fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jul 8, 2020

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

Pocky In My Pocket posted:

Fjord/clay is a popular ship my friends
Yeah and it's good, I'm just wondering what people like losebetter are deciding things are homophobic and 100% specifically targeted at Fjord for.

tsob posted:

Is this another comments thing? Cause if there was homophobic jokes in the episode itself, they flew right over my head. That aside, I fell off campaign one for the last few months after finishing the Chroma Conclave stuff, and took about 5 attempts over the last week to get through episode 93; the one where they battle the fiend in Dis, then kill the tiger thing targeting Vax. I finally got back in to the swing of it now though, and man, episode 94 is a loving blast. Pretty much everything after they get to the bar till the morning after is gold, between Tary trying to flirt, Pike and Grog hanging out, Percy spying on Scanlon, Tary recounting his night with Trisha etc. The last part pretty much broke the whole crew.
No just wondering about uh a lot of the complaints losebetter apparently had being focused around targeted homophobia at Fjord, aka 'ball-eater'.

CuwiKhons posted:

It doesn't bother me when fans ship any random poo poo that makes no sense to me or have opinions about characters that I think are bizarre or baseless. That's just fandom being fandom and it's being going on forever. The problem arises when fans forget that it's just their personal views and start getting upset with the show/book/movie/whatever for not following their ideas. IE, it's cool if you think Fjord is gay (if a little baseless bc Avantika did happen but sure, it's not like closeted gay men have never slept with women) but it crosses a line when you start saying CR is homophobic for not "showing" that Fjord is gay, because in your mind he totally is and therefore any failure to show that is covering it up for some reason. And that's the point that Losebetter and his weird followers are at.
Yeah, this. TBH the Avantika thing was of questionable levels of consent on his part if just because they were terrified of her and trying to make her think they were gung-ho about Uka'toa when they weren't. But my point isn't that it's impossible for Fjord to be gay, rather that it feels weirdly unintentionally homophobic to insist he must be gay?

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

It's because Losebetter desperately wants to be a victim for attention. Which I hate saying because I feel like some chud shaking their fist and going "those evil SJWs and their victimhood!" But Losebetter genuinely has a reputation for crying big ol' crocodile tears about harassment (some of which was genuine harassment and some of which was just people disagreeing with him) and then turning around and harassing other queer people just because they don't share his opinions. So he comes up with a lengthy list of 'homophobic' things in CR even though most of them are total bullshit (naming a ship 'Balleater' isn't homophobic, it's just a generic sex joke) just so he can have something to cry wolf about.

CuwiKhons fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jul 8, 2020

TotalHell
Feb 22, 2005

Roman Reigns fights CM Punk in fantasy warld. Lotsa violins, so littl kids cant red it.


CuwiKhons posted:

It's because Losebetter desperately wants to be a victim for attention. Which I hate saying because I feel like some chud shaking their fist and going "those evil SJWs and their victimhood!" But Losebetter genuinely has a reputation for crying big ol' crocodile tears about harassment (some of which was genuine harassment and some of which was just people disagreeing with him) and then turning around and harassing other queer people just because they don't share his opinions. So he comes up with a lengthy list of 'homophobic' things in CR even though most of them are total bullshit (naming a ship 'Balleater' isn't homophobic, it's just a generic sex joke) just so he can have something to cry wolf about.

Yeah, it sucks cuz like 99.9% of “SJW” stuff is wannabe-fascists crying about stuff that is genuinely made for good purposes. But then there’s that 0.01% where people turn social criticism to their own ends. And unfortunately a fandom like CR’s is going to attract a share of the latter since they’re vocal about being welcoming and pushing out chuds.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

CuwiKhons posted:

It's because Losebetter desperately wants to be a victim for attention. Which I hate saying because I feel like some chud shaking their fist and going "those evil SJWs and their victimhood!" But Losebetter genuinely has a reputation for crying big ol' crocodile tears about harassment (some of which was genuine harassment and some of which was just people disagreeing with him) and then turning around and harassing other queer people just because they don't share his opinions. So he comes up with a lengthy list of 'homophobic' things in CR even though most of them are total bullshit (naming a ship 'Balleater' isn't homophobic, it's just a generic sex joke) just so he can have something to cry wolf about.

And at the very least Taliesin is bisexual, so anyone making legitimately homophobic jokes on there would have a big problem even if the entire rest of the cast wasn't already not problematic. Some people just can't help but feel like the world is out to get them.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Also if you wanted something seriously dumb, the TG Industry thread has had their latest "blow-up over nothing" because someone posted a pic of Sam with his green face paint edited to look like blackface and threw a tantrum and the phrase "green blackface" is now unironically being used to defend getting angry about it.

Also, Matt is somehow an evil corporate mastermind for not getting the fandom to cease being lovely to people and also playing D&D at all because they still believe in ethical consumption under capitalism.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.
is sending people over there really needed? Who cares. it was silly, but dogpiling literally does nothing.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Dexo posted:

is sending people over there really needed? Who cares. it was silly, but dogpiling literally does nothing.

Why do you assume that I was sending people over there to do a dogpile? Unless you don't want anyone talking about any poo poo on Twitter now in case it incites something.

Pocky In My Pocket
Jan 27, 2005

Giant robots shouldn't fight!






chitoryu12 posted:

Why do you assume that I was sending people over there to do a dogpile? Unless you don't want anyone talking about any poo poo on Twitter now in case it incites something.

P sure he means the mention of the TG thread specifically

Anyway - Tal's story was good, brutal story and the alliteration was always gonna vanish super quickly. Its always funny seeing the last person trying to tell a story they know is incoherrent, which combined with matts lore-brain poking him as well just made this a complete clusterfuck

CherryCat
Feb 21, 2011

That's a strawberry.

College Slice
If When the Divine Gate comes down I definitely wanna see the Archeart ride in on their cart.

Wyld Karde
Mar 18, 2013

She's so ~dreamy~
Just started watching this week's Narrative Telephone and I want to take a moment to say "gently caress you, Taliesin Jaffe", but in an affectionate kind of way.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
Stop acknowledging the nutter and just realise sometimes its not the case you have to hear all sides when one is saying 2 plus 2 is five. They're a toxic fanboy who thinks they are owed.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

Dexo posted:

is sending people over there really needed? Who cares. it was silly, but dogpiling literally does nothing.
Because it was silly in a way that reminds me why I try to avoid getting too seriously into TTRPGs, and I've been playing them in some form since I was a teenager in the late 90s.

I just don't post about them much, if at all

Crazy Ted fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jul 8, 2020

Drowning Rabbit
Oct 28, 2003

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!
I really dislike the knee jerk reactions to/from this fandom. CR tries it's best to please everyone, and the problem with that is that it's impossible. Someone out there is going to be hurt by something that may even be the most innocent comment that is meant to be kind hearted.

I personally never saw all the drama until the blow up about the Wendy's Ad ( It was a one shot, that was funny, but it was just a long rear end ad promo from Sam, and people seem to love those ), and poo poo like this just flabbergasts me. Every fandom will have some bad seeds, vocal ones at that, but every Critter I've met in real life has been very kind, for the most part. Some have definitely been overly judgmental and controlling, but I can easily just no interact with them. I prefer to keep it that way.

By any means, non-sequitur aside, I noticed something that I'm sure has been posted before, but some may have missed it like I had. I pulled up the VoD for last nights Narrative Telephone, and looking at the lower third's for everyone in the intro, I saw that Travis is actually listed as "Mr. Laura Bailey" and it made me chuckle.

Having said that, I'm sure that there is someone in the fandom screaming bloody murder about a joke the cast liked.

redbrouw
Nov 14, 2018

ACAB
Funny people get 1 out of 5 jokes to hit on the fly.

Terper
Jun 26, 2012


I'm watching Critical Role for the first time and I'm currently on episode 29 of the first season and I needed to find a thread to say that this



has left me in tears. I cannot breathe.

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

God yes, I can't wait to see the door scene animated.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
At some point (maybe in S3?) there will be another door and when they finally get on the other side of it, there will be a chair leaned up against it.

Dameius
Apr 3, 2006
If you enjoy door based humor then you've found the right show to watch.

Hulk Smash!
Jul 14, 2004

Truly, the greatest foes that Vox Machina and The Mightly Nein have faced have been inanimate objects.

Bobbin Threadbare
Jan 2, 2009

I'm looking for a flock of urbanmechs.

A clip of the incident for context:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVRBHecr-78

Mywhatacleanturtle
Jul 23, 2006


I don’t want to trample on people’s “I can’t wait to see this animated” fun too much, but approaching this scene from a scripted standpoint leaves me anxious. Yeah, it’s one of THE scenes from S1 that people are desperate to see, but a lot of what makes it work are the trappings of impromptu actions and the trappings of a table top game. Like, how do you visually represent failed dice rolls leading to trouble with a ratty rear end door, when, narratively, this party steamrolled an army of skeletons moments prior? A lot of the touchstone moments in CR are dependent on the meta narrative of A Game Being Played, and I don’t know how a lot of the “must-haves” will translate to television.

E: I guess a group failing to open a door after slaughtering an army of the dead can still be funny separate from the game, but my overall point still stands. They’re going to need to change a LOT, and fans will inevitably be mad.

Mywhatacleanturtle fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jul 9, 2020

AngryBooch
Sep 26, 2009
Dear god Taliesin. Dear god.

Hulk Smash!
Jul 14, 2004

Mywhatacleanturtle posted:

E: I guess a group failing to open a door after slaughtering an army of the dead can still be funny separate from the game, but my overall point still stands. They’re going to need to change a LOT, and fans will inevitably be mad.
That's going to happen no matter what. They have to condense 4+ hour streams into 1/2 hour episodes. There's bound to be people that are mad that their favourite bit of a stream doesn't make it or that, if it does, it's not word for word how it was said on stream. Nevermind the fact that NPCs will not all be played by Matt and that will get people mad too. Fans are weird.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

Mywhatacleanturtle posted:

I don’t want to trample on people’s “I can’t wait to see this animated” fun too much, but approaching this scene from a scripted standpoint leaves me anxious. Yeah, it’s one of THE scenes from S1 that people are desperate to see, but a lot of what makes it work are the trappings of impromptu actions and the trappings of a table top game. Like, how do you visually represent failed dice rolls leading to trouble with a ratty rear end door, when, narratively, this party steamrolled an army of skeletons moments prior? A lot of the touchstone moments in CR are dependent on the meta narrative of A Game Being Played, and I don’t know how a lot of the “must-haves” will translate to television.

There are dozens of examples they can look at on YouTube already that fans have done of various scenes if they really want to incorporate the random dice rolls in to the animation, but really, I don't see why the humour of the scene couldn't be portrayed simply through timing and good animation of the groups reactions to various elements of the scene. Scanlon already knows early on that he can solve the issue pretty easily, and is mostly just going along on the ride to humour Vax so his resigned curiosity and indignity at being hurt by the things he does can still work. As can his matter of fact greeting to his unseen servant. Percy can still be surprised to recall he actually has a sword, and give a quick run down of how useless it is etc. There's nothing there that seems inherently difficult to convey in a scripted format to me. Even as a reason as to why they'd have trouble with a door, it's basically just that they're overthinking a simple problem in conjunction with the fact that the door requires brute strength to open, and they're all physically weak characters who specialize in other ways that allow them to kick rear end in fights despite their weakness. Something that's already built in to the scene anyway. It sounds to me like you're just overthinking this yourself, honestly.

Like, yeah, a good roll might have allowed them to push the bar up with the sword, but Matt would probably have described it such a way that it emphasized the improbability that 3 relatively weak characters had to strain to do it, and you can incorporate the fact they didn't succeed just by showing them not straining so hard and giving up quickly, simply because Scanlon hurt his hand and it didn't seem like it was going to work i.e. the description Matt actually gives in general to those kind of failed rolls. The dice roll itself isn't important, just the outcome. Which you can absolutely convey regardless of whether the dice are there or not.

Hulk Smash! posted:

That's going to happen no matter what. They have to condense 4+ hour streams into 1/2 hour episodes. There's bound to be people that are mad that their favourite bit of a stream doesn't make it or that, if it does, it's not word for word how it was said on stream. Nevermind the fact that NPCs will not all be played by Matt and that will get people mad too. Fans are weird.

Time works differently in different formats, and yeah, the D'n'D sessions are 4+ hours long on a regular basis, but a lot of those 4 hours are the cast just chatting or describing things for several minutes that would play out in seconds in animation. There'll still be changes that people will be mad about regardless, but I don't think they'll have to cut as much as you think at the very least.

tsob fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 9, 2020

Dameius
Apr 3, 2006
A 5 hour combat session would provably be about at most 10 minutes of screen time unless they go DBZ with it.

Edit: In the words of Sam, Taliesin really was a C word.

Dameius fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jul 9, 2020

Mywhatacleanturtle
Jul 23, 2006

tsob posted:

There are dozens of examples they can look at on YouTube already that fans have done of various scenes if they really want to incorporate the random dice rolls in to the animation, but really, I don't see why the humour of the scene couldn't be portrayed simply through timing and good animation of the groups reactions to various elements of the scene. Scanlon already knows early on that he can solve the issue pretty easily, and is mostly just going along on the ride to humour Vax so his resigned curiosity and indignity at being hurt by the things he does can still work. As can his matter of fact greeting to his unseen servant. Percy can still be surprised to recall he actually has a sword, and give a quick run down of how useless it is etc. There's nothing there that seems inherently difficult to convey in a scripted format to me. Even as a reason as to why they'd have trouble with a door, it's basically just that they're overthinking a simple problem in conjunction with the fact that the door requires brute strength to open, and they're all physically weak characters who specialize in other ways that allow them to kick rear end in fights despite their weakness. Something that's already built in to the scene anyway. It sounds to me like you're just overthinking this yourself, honestly.

Like, yeah, a good roll might have allowed them to push the bar up with the sword, but Matt would probably have described it such a way that it emphasized the improbability that 3 relatively weak characters had to strain to do it, and you can incorporate the fact they didn't succeed just by showing them not straining so hard and giving up quickly, simply because Scanlon hurt his hand and it didn't seem like it was going to work i.e. the description Matt actually gives in general to those kind of failed rolls. The dice roll itself isn't important, just the outcome. Which you can absolutely convey regardless of whether the dice are there or not.


Time works differently in different formats, and yeah, the D'n'D sessions are 4+ hours long on a regular basis, but a lot of those 4 hours are the cast just chatting or describing things for several minutes that would play out in seconds in animation. There'll still be changes that people will be mad about regardless, but I don't think they'll have to cut as much as you think at the very least.

Yeah, that was a particularly bad example, especially because I’ve done something similar myself re: translating tabletop minutia into animation. There are ways around most of this stuff, sure (especially because they have “i’mma fix this script” Marc bernadin on staff), but my point was more that the changes will have to be substantial, which another poster already addressed (fans’ll be mad, no matter what).

So now I’m just wondering how they’ll translate spell/skill casting, since the players exposit spells and skills in ways their characters, in universe, wouldn’t. Like, even the smoothest animatics usually include the “I cast x” parts. This isn’t an indictment or anything, I’m just gleefully curious how they’d do it.

bagrada
Aug 4, 2007

The Demogorgon is tired of your silly human bickering!

Here's a fan animation of the door scene since its one of the videos that sold me on watching Critical Role in the first place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx-T1xeEBqg

I hope this scene is frame for frame in the cartoon as its my other original out of context favorite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ddyzJcbqVs

TotalHell
Feb 22, 2005

Roman Reigns fights CM Punk in fantasy warld. Lotsa violins, so littl kids cant red it.


Mywhatacleanturtle posted:

Yeah, that was a particularly bad example, especially because I’ve done something similar myself re: translating tabletop minutia into animation. There are ways around most of this stuff, sure (especially because they have “i’mma fix this script” Marc bernadin on staff), but my point was more that the changes will have to be substantial, which another poster already addressed (fans’ll be mad, no matter what).

So now I’m just wondering how they’ll translate spell/skill casting, since the players exposit spells and skills in ways their characters, in universe, wouldn’t. Like, even the smoothest animatics usually include the “I cast x” parts. This isn’t an indictment or anything, I’m just gleefully curious how they’d do it.

I imagine this would be done in the same way spellcasting is done in other visual media: some sort of made-up verbal or somatic component that is consistent for each spell. If the spell is a bit obtuse they can indicate what it is they’re trying to do in conversation: i.e. “I might be able to burn this down” or just an indication like “stand back” or whatever. Lots of ways to signal what might be coming without having to specifically say “I cast Bigby’s Hand” or whatever.

Mywhatacleanturtle
Jul 23, 2006

TotalHell posted:

I imagine this would be done in the same way spellcasting is done in other visual media: some sort of made-up verbal or somatic component that is consistent for each spell. If the spell is a bit obtuse they can indicate what it is they’re trying to do in conversation: i.e. “I might be able to burn this down” or just an indication like “stand back” or whatever. Lots of ways to signal what might be coming without having to specifically say “I cast Bigby’s Hand” or whatever.

I guess part of my problem is I have less faith in the audience than I realistically should.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~
Yeah, Scanlon especially seems like the kind of dramatic person who'd loudly announce every bit of magic he was doing. I'd be genuinely saddened if he didn't give a big sing-song "BIGBY'S HANNNNDDDD!!!!" each time he used it.

Mage_Boy
Dec 18, 2003

This hotdog is about as real as your story Steve Simmons




tsob posted:

Yeah, Scanlon especially seems like the kind of dramatic person who'd loudly announce every bit of magic he was doing. I'd be genuinely saddened if he didn't give a big sing-song "BIGBY'S HANNNNDDDD!!!!" each time he used it.

Did they get the D&D license for the cartoon? If yes, this will happen. If no, it'll be a new name.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

Mage_Boy posted:

Did they get the D&D license for the cartoon? If yes, this will happen. If no, it'll be a new name.
I think they got approval for D&D things, but Sam is reworking his song parodies because he's worried about potential royalties even though if he just put them in as-is he'd likely be okay.

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Mywhatacleanturtle
Jul 23, 2006

Mage_Boy posted:

Did they get the D&D license for the cartoon? If yes, this will happen. If no, it'll be a new name.

I seem to recall WotC putting out a statement that was basically “yo, check out THIS FUKKEN poo poo!” In regards to the critical role animation, but I could, as usual, be misremembering because a cursory twitter search is turning up nothing. If nothing else, they’d be dumb to litigate this kind of free advertising.

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