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merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

t a s t e posted:

What’s he doing visiting her then? Bus driving?

There are tons of scum target scum roles. This can't be a real question.

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t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Frankly I don’t know that your claim is genuine. You picked three people, one of whom was already confirmed by another player, and another of whom you changed after I pointed out inconsistency. I think you just got lucky

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

merk posted:

There are tons of scum target scum roles. This can't be a real question.

Like what

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
Doctor (kill could've been a Juggernaut)
Busdriver
Empowerer
Framer

There are also potentially other roles written specifically for this game that we do not know until we see some flips or get some claims.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
I don't really believe "because DBD targeted Jen X, DBD is scum" though for clarity. I'm saying you're better than your question.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

merk posted:

Doctor (kill could've been a Juggernaut)
Busdriver
Empowerer
Framer

There are also potentially other roles written specifically for this game that we do not know until we see some flips or get some claims.

Watcher

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

merk posted:

Doctor (kill could've been a Juggernaut)
Busdriver
Empowerer
Framer

There are also potentially other roles written specifically for this game that we do not know until we see some flips or get some claims.

Yeah I *guess* but like is that reasonable

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

NevergirlsOFFICIAL posted:

Thinking about jenx relationship to spoonsy, hambeet, tokes.

also thinking about solus and merk

How did that thinking go?

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance

Spoonsy posted:

And re- DBD, this post feels off for me because it's from before I revealed the group and here he is with 3/4 by name
Good point. That unvote is bad all around.

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance
I don’t think DBD visiting Jen is damning either and it doesn’t feel like a scum motivated claim from spoonsy.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

yuming posted:

I don’t think DBD visiting Jen is damning either and it doesn’t feel like a scum motivated claim from spoonsy.

I think if it’s a lie it’s defending pera. He’s giving me and dbd the third degree but hasn’t even mentioned her despite humalong verifying

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance

Sandwolf posted:

Spoonsy/yuming/merk scumteam?
I think you’re 0/3 there.

If merk isn’t scum who is?

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

I think ##vote pera is scum, also, so I’ll admit that could affect my read

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


yuming posted:

I think you’re 0/3 there.

If merk isn’t scum who is?

I’m still very suss of Hal and Hum for opposite reasons (lurking)

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




yuming posted:

I also have a bad feeling about Rosa but I haven't been able to anchor WHY exactly I think they're scum.

I think it's because we seem to have absolutely opposite reads on who is town and who is scum. That also gives me a bad feeling about you, but I still sort of end up thinking you look more like someone looking for scum and seeing things a different way than you look like scum to me. At least so far.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Sandwolf posted:

What if Jen X was death-millered. What if the scum have a death-Miller-janitor. The text of the flip was very hosed up, literally. I think there’s a chance that’s evidence of scum interference.
This is something to consider I think. I want to hear from the people on Spoonsy's list as to if they actually visited Jen and why before thinking too hard about it, because wouldn't that mean two scum had to visit Jen? One to kill, one to gently caress up the flip?

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




It would also explain why there is apparently no scum kill if it's a death-miller-janitor.

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance

Sandwolf posted:

I’m still very suss of Hal and Hum for opposite reasons (lurking)
OMG Hal is like the towniest person in the game for the timing of his Jen vote.

We are just not on the same wavelength at all this game.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

What do you think of my pera spoonsy hypothesis yum

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

t a s t e posted:

I think ##vote pera is scum, also, so I’ll admit that could affect my read

I would vote pera. Incredibly weak d1 with waffling and following.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




I feel like if taste didn't visit JenX it would be stronger to just say so in terms of trying to attack Spoonsy's credibility, so I think taste did visit, and the way he is reacting to that information being shared with the thread seems scummy to me.

Dans Macabre
Apr 24, 2004


merk posted:

How did that thinking go?
I think I didn't get a chance to read their post histories yet

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Sub Rosa posted:

I feel like if taste didn't visit JenX it would be stronger to just say so in terms of trying to attack Spoonsy's credibility, so I think taste did visit, and the way he is reacting to that information being shared with the thread seems scummy to me.

I appreciate that this is your second game out but I’ve been clear enough for people to pick up what I’m saying

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance

t a s t e posted:

I think if it’s a lie it’s defending pera. He’s giving me and dbd the third degree but hasn’t even mentioned her despite humalong verifying
I think pera is the one who sent spoonsy the message D1 based on some of her D1 posts.

I have a neutral read on pera otherwise and I’d like to see her respond to recent events.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




t a s t e posted:

I appreciate that this is your second game out but I’ve been clear enough for people to pick up what I’m saying

Could someone else clue me in then since taste feels above doing so?

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

I believe spoonsy is fakeclaiming founded on humalong’s claim and his subsequent scrambling to adjust and fit the current vote leader, but I did visit Jen x, yes

I believe he went fishing and hooked me the way I did int he last game I played

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




So you think instead of actually having knowing he just made two very risky guesses and claimed a roll that would result in an expectation that on future days more very risky guesses would need to be made? Seems very farfetched.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

There’s nothing risky about claiming watch results in a role madness game

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
I don’t think spoonsy is lying. Doesn’t really indicate alignment though.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

merk posted:

I don’t think spoonsy is lying. Doesn’t really indicate alignment though.

the shift from claiming humalong to the vote leader, along with utterly ignoring the one player who was confirmed to visit previously, strikes me as *incredibly* convenient

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




It did seem like a very bad vote on DBD, I'll agree with that.

Deadbeat Dad
Jun 3, 2005

the trad games jinho
Holy poo poo, waking up to all of this. ##unvote

I can explicitly say I have a power (soft claiming, I am a vote candidate so whatever) but I did not visit Jen X last night. I know this could be easily shot down if I was lying if pera/taste did visit Jen, but I didn't target her. Also, my power was a success with no specific flavor stating I was bus-driven, but I don't think any mod would say if that was the case so if it is confirmed that pera/taste visited them, I was either bus-driven or there's some doppleganger clone thing. I have a weird rear end power that is p helpful so I would like to not claim or be voted out, thanks.

First I'll reply to some yuming (who flipped deflection pretty quick today) + Spoonsy + merk stuff:

yuming posted:

oof. This softball stands out to me immediately.

++ scum points to DBD

Deadbeat Dad posted:

I'm tired and can maybe make a more coherent case later but going through Jen's history she had interesting interactions with a few players (including myself) -- you can judge how you want with me, obviously I know I'm town but I did set her up with a sort of softball explanation of her votes (which I truly wanted an explanation on).

You can chalk this up to being self-aware or something but you just said what I said and added "++ scum points". I'd rather get an explanation for something than to let her get away with voting without consequence or explanation. Especially if people like merk are going to call those votes "good".

Also please give me more credit for playing mafia on these forums for 13 years than thinking I would set up a scumbuddy with this. Thanks yuming :sun:

yuming posted:

It also stands out to me that Jen makes a point to comment on most players who comment on her EXCEPT DBD.

She responds directly to DBD about another read, but never engages with the various stacks of waffles DBD wrote about her.

This supports my scum suspicion on DBD.

Doesn't that support a general feel of how she played? She threw down votes/opinions on people who voted her, I never voted her. I called her out.

Merk's real point on me was I was "scum distancing" from her but every action I had with Jen was genuine from my pov. I can't control how she responded. There's no way to prove that but it's a scenario of believe me or not.

Spoonsy posted:

Yes. That DBD was aware of the masonry prior to the outing through the scum member of the masonry, ergo scum.

I was not aware of a masonry until you told the thread.

Spoonsy posted:

And re- DBD, this post feels off for me because it's from before I revealed the group and here he is with 3/4 by name

.. those were literally the names people were feeling weird about in general. Jen by a lot of people early, I backed Tokes' post on Asiina because Asiina did weird poo poo early, and Solus was getting votes that I thought were bullshit. Merk was odd and then afk.

I will say this though, not only because I'm being tied to Jen and it feels knowingly wrong since I'm not connected to them at all, and I'm well aware that I did do the same thing to merk + others when I was reviewing Jen's posts last night, but I may walk that back a bit (especially with merk suspicion).

The point Sandwolf made about the death flavor being all gammy and weird is interesting and I'm noticing the death miller OP poo poo now too. Which means my entire post on merk/Sand/Taste may not hold much weight at all if there is even the possibility of a role being doctored or janitor-ed. I was thinking the wackiness in this game had to do with secret players but it could potentially be janitor related stuff. I'm not only saying this because people are tying me to Jen (although obviously that's part of it) but I think we have to earnestly function under the assumption of Jen's flip being as good as ??? if it was doctored in any way. They could feasibly be any alignment if that's the case which makes things tricky.

However, ignoring all of that, if we can confirm that pera (2x seen) and taste visited Jen last night, then there obviously was a killing role involved there which again, I would vote either of them since I never targeted Jen by my own choice (if we're assuming Spoonsy's results are correct). I think that would be the correct move since it's independent of anything related to Jen's posts and how she interacted with people. It just takes us putting blind faith in Spoonsy.

Deadbeat Dad
Jun 3, 2005

the trad games jinho
Also fwiw, not sure if anybody posted it, but Asiina and Jen both dropped the same coin. Not sure if that's indicative of them being in the same masonry or alignment related in the face of potential doctored results.

Deadbeat Dad
Jun 3, 2005

the trad games jinho
Another theory I had, which I'm debating throwing out there because I'm not trying to throw the game all over the place, but wasn't there mentioning of someone loosely connected with the masonry? There's the potential of a 3P/survivor role who has a specific job to kill everybody in the masonry. That would also make sense as to why an entire masonry's information was given out as either a red herring or some sort of hacked info.

I could be off base there but I swear I read something about that, I think either Tokes or Solus mentioned that person.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
Jen’s votes were good in the context of the game when they were made. We had basically no content so I liked seeing someone generating some.

I don’t understand why I have to explain this concept every mafia game.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Deadbeat Dad posted:

Another theory I had, which I'm debating throwing out there because I'm not trying to throw the game all over the place, but wasn't there mentioning of someone loosely connected with the masonry? There's the potential of a 3P/survivor role who has a specific job to kill everybody in the masonry. That would also make sense as to why an entire masonry's information was given out as either a red herring or some sort of hacked info.

I could be off base there but I swear I read something about that, I think either Tokes or Solus mentioned that person.

This will never help us find scum so who cares?

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

merk posted:

Jen’s votes were good in the context of the game when they were made. We had basically no content so I liked seeing someone generating some.

I don’t understand why I have to explain this concept every mafia game.

Didn’t you call her out with me? I don’t agree

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

That’s a whole lot of words but the claim is that dbd didn’t visit Jen, which fits into my read of spoonsy’s claim

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

t a s t e posted:

Didn’t you call her out with me? I don’t agree

I did call her out for one post.
Then, I said she made a couple good votes.
Then, I said a long flowery unhelpful post was bad.

I then moved to Sandwolf.

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t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

merk posted:

I did call her out for one post.
Then, I said she made a couple good votes.
Then, I said a long flowery unhelpful post was bad.

I then moved to Sandwolf.

I see, apologies

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