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Joel let his guard down because he's had 4 years of peace
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Jul 9, 2020 17:23
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Yeah, I just meant it's something you could probably legitimate argue about as a matter of character interpretation. It's probably not an honest argument considering the kind of people it's coming from, though.
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Jul 9, 2020 17:26
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Cardiovorax posted:It's probably not an honest argument considering the kind of people it's coming from, though. gamers2020.txt lol
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Jul 9, 2020 17:29
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I want a game where I’m not on a revenge mission, and just stay in Jackson for most of the game getting to know people, going on hunts for supplies, making some conversation choices, with demon hordes occasionally at the gates. Jackson felt very Red Dead 2 in a good way (a game I haven’t played) and I really wanted to live in that moment for much longer before misery and dread became my life for the remainder of the game. Still loved scrounging for parts and exploring all the scenery and being hunted, but I want to see the other side of things now.
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Jul 9, 2020 17:30
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a primate posted:I want a game where I’m not on a revenge mission, and just stay in Jackson for most of the game getting to know people, going on hunts for supplies, making some conversation choices, with demon hordes occasionally at the gates. Play Days Gone. Seriously, it's great.
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Jul 9, 2020 17:38
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Days Gone is absolutely excellent, yeah, and I have no idea why so many seemed to dislike it on release. I had much more fun playing it than playing TLOU 2, but it's a very different kind of game with different themes.
Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jul 9, 2020 |
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Jul 9, 2020 17:39
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bobjr posted:I think you might be able to make the point that Joel should have caught on a little quicker instead of making a little joke. I don’t have a problem with the way Joel was taken out out in the story and thought everything was more or less perfectly believable because an accident or happenstance is literally the only way to get Joel offguard. If they kidnap a Jackson resident or a patrol is late that’ll probably be enough to tip them off and I can say with perfect certainty that if Joel & Tommy have even 5-10 minutes of prep time not a single member of the WLF walks out of Jackson alive Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jul 9, 2020 |
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Jul 9, 2020 17:42
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One thing that struck me about Days Gone is how not janky it is. The studio clearly spent a TON of time making sure everything works smoothly, aside from a couple moments where they clearly cut some early content (but the game is incredibly long anyway)
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Jul 9, 2020 17:43
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You start playing Days Gone and you're like "huh, pretty good size map" Then there's another map Then another map It's pretty big and by end it's definitely chill to just ride your motorcycle around it
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Jul 9, 2020 17:45
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precision posted:One thing that struck me about Days Gone is how not janky it is. The studio clearly spent a TON of time making sure everything works smoothly, aside from a couple moments where they clearly cut some early content (but the game is incredibly long anyway)
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Jul 9, 2020 17:46
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Days Gone was universally panned before it came out because on paper it did not have a single original idea to its credit.
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Jul 9, 2020 17:47
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Bust Rodd posted:Days Gone was universally panned before it came out because on paper it did not have a single original idea to its credit. To be fair, the execution isn't original either, it's just very well done
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Jul 9, 2020 17:49
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Well, to be fair, neither does it in practice. What makes it work is how well-executed it all is. e:f,b
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Jul 9, 2020 17:51
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Bust Rodd posted:Days Gone was universally panned before it came out because on paper it did not have a single original idea to its credit. Yeah I pretty much wrote it off on the basis that it looked like the most generic product ever created.
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Jul 9, 2020 17:51
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precision posted:Play Days Gone. Seriously, it's great. I also wrote this off as being a lame biker game. The horde of zombies technical showpiece that media kept showing looked cool, but I really didn’t want to be the guy running away because it looked like it would be really annoying. That’s all I really saw of the game though. I’m playing Mafia 3 right now so if I’m up for another open world game after, I’ll pick it up. Otherwise I might try the Last Guardian since I never got around to that.
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Jul 9, 2020 18:02
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a primate posted:Otherwise I might try the Last Guardian since I never got around to that. You gotta put that at the top of your list
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Jul 9, 2020 18:05
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Days Gone sits nearly perfectly at the nexus between looks generic and sounds too long. Is it really worth spending 40 hours playing? I mean, I really liked TLOU2 but even that was starting to feel a bit much by hour 25.
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Jul 9, 2020 18:05
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Well, it's quite a bit less emotionally intense than TLOU 2, so with that and the usual open-world loving around and sidequests, I guess it depends on how well you can connect with the player character. The guy has a ton of personality and opinions on pretty much anything and everything.
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Jul 9, 2020 18:08
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Necrothatcher posted:Days Gone sits nearly perfectly at the nexus between looks generic and sounds too long. Is it really worth spending 40 hours playing? You can skip most or all the side stuff, it's not a super hard game. Probably beat it in 20 if you wanted.
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Jul 9, 2020 18:13
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bobjr posted:I think you might be able to make the point that Joel should have caught on a little quicker instead of making a little joke. Not sure if you were replying to me or Dogstile but to be honest I had written an earnest post arguing how ND could have framed that scene a little differently and just deleted it. I don't want to bore people out since most everyone here enjoyed the game as it is. a primate posted:I want a game where I’m not on a revenge mission, and just stay in Jackson for most of the game getting to know people, going on hunts for supplies, making some conversation choices, with demon hordes occasionally at the gates. Jackson felt very Red Dead 2 in a good way (a game I haven’t played) and I really wanted to live in that moment for much longer before misery and dread became my life for the remainder of the game. Yeah I really liked everything about Jackson as well, that and the flashbacks between Joel and Ellie give you glimpses that they truly are capable of producing something different. They just chose not to for some reason. Careful if you play The Last Guardian, the controls are very Team ICO. Takes some time getting used to but the game is well worth it.
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Jul 9, 2020 18:27
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The reason is “we wanted to tell a different story than that one”
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Jul 9, 2020 18:30
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Sassy Sasquatch posted:Not sure if you were replying to me or Dogstile but to be honest I had written an earnest post arguing how ND could have framed that scene a little differently and just deleted it. I don't want to bore people out since most everyone here enjoyed the game as it is. I mean it was probably aimed at your because my post was a joke 
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Jul 9, 2020 18:52
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Necrothatcher posted:Abby? And we don't know Lev's sexuality.  Oh duh, I don't get how the gently caress I just completely forgot about Abby. Since Lev's never came up and he's like what, 14? I didn't really feel like it needed mentioning.
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Jul 9, 2020 18:59
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Wait, Abby's only meant to be 19? What the hell?
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Jul 9, 2020 19:51
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VagueRant posted:Wait, Abby's only meant to be 19? What the hell? Goddamn you're right.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6rRfK-V2jY&t=950s Also that gives an answer to last page's argument, despite surviving 25 years in the apocalypse Joel and Tommy have no qualms following a stranger to "her group" because she seems nice. (just ignore the dozens of infected she's helped them demolish lmao)
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Jul 9, 2020 20:02
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Necrothatcher posted:I would love to know who's like him so I can keep track of them. I like Rob Zacny, and he has two different pieces up on Vice gaming about this game. Edit: Also, Mighty Keef makes a video about it: https://youtu.be/9BYQaaRZLLk
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Jul 9, 2020 20:07
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precision posted:Play Days Gone. Seriously, it's great. Days Gone (which I only watched a stream of - I haven't played. Come at me, gamers) is the only post-apocalyptic game that I know of that's even bothered to make the point that killing people might be a bad thing to do - on account of there not being all that many left - even if they aren't very nice.
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Jul 9, 2020 21:42
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Sassy Sasquatch posted:Goddamn you're right. This isn’t fair, this far into the apocalypse anyone outside of a fortified city needs to be able to handle themselves around weapons and zombies. Joel scowling at everyone, depositing them at the fenced in compound and telling them all to gently caress off before smokebombing them and zip lining into the woods before they can jump him would have been way more unrealistic and awkward.
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Jul 9, 2020 21:42
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Bust Rodd posted:This isn’t fair, this far into the apocalypse anyone outside of a fortified city needs to be able to handle themselves around weapons and zombies. Joel dies while ziplining at night through a forest full of infected during a blizzard OUTRAGED FANS: Joel would never have done that, he would have gone into the house with all the people.
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Jul 9, 2020 21:53
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I just watched the horde sequence again and it's clearly stated that the horses weren't going to make it all the way back to Jacksonville and Joel made it clear that the house they were in wasn't going to hold them off. Abby's solution is their only lifeboat in a lovely situation and they grab onto it. I think after that acting friendly and accommodating to the heavily armed group that has helped pull you out of shark infested waters is the right move whether you're a gruff no nonsense survivor or someone completely naive. The only scenario where that isn't a good idea is the extremely unlikely one where they're looking specifically for you to kill. Joel acting the way he did isn't just compatible with a Joel that has had years to acclimatise to peace it's compatible with the 'super smart survivour' Joel from before TLOU 1 who recognises this isn't a situation you can be a prick for no good reason and hope to live through. Unless these super Joel fans wanted their idol to be a complete idiot? I wonder if this argument would have been completely avoided if they had scripted it so that Joel was being really cagey (which is stupid in that sort of situation) and then Tommy was the one who said "I'm Tom Miller and this is my brother Joel" Though it absolutely wouldn't of because I suspect most people's problem with this scene is actually that Joel got killed by a girl.
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Jul 10, 2020 04:24
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If Joel didn't want to be killed he shouldn't have stopped being the main character, it's as simple as that.
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Jul 10, 2020 04:35
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The Neal! posted:I wonder if this argument would have been completely avoided if they had scripted it [slightly differently] Yes, that's the point of contention: it would be possible to script and direct the scene in such a way that the same outcome happens (Joel gets kneecapped, Tommy is knocked out) while avoiding any contrivances that feel like the writers were trying to get the scene over with and just had Joel (and Tommy) behave in a bizarrely incongruent way to speed things along. No one is saying (in this topic at least, I'm sure there are people on the internet that are mad Joel didn't just go Super Saiyan) that Joel is some invincible survivor who never ever lets down his guard and would never ever be killed. But there's a logical middle ground between saying "Joel would have stood in the corner waving his gun and screaming at people to get back" and "Joel would trust these strangers and stand in the middle of a room so that he is surrounded on all sides, unarmed, and has his back to half of them at any given moment". There's becoming complacent after four years of peace and then there's the total abandonment of any self-preservation instincts and rational circumspection. Joel doesn't need to be a paranoid freak with a hair-trigger temper. But if he had: - Kept his pistol tucked into back pocket rather than completely disarming. - Stood by the doorway to the garage so that he could see everyone rather than wander into the middle of the room. - Been pleasant without being overly trusting. The scene could play out largely same way without his characterization feeling off. You only need minimal changes to produce the same result: the room goes quiet when Tommy says his name (since he was the one the Salt Lake Crew were expecting to find). Joel recognizes the very obvious tension, tries to reach for his gun, but Abby kneecaps him first because she was ready (having previously found out their names) and Joel is slow on the draw after four years of peace. Same outcome, same shock value, same implication that Joel has lost his edge, but without the "hyuck, was it something I said?" level of ignorance.
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Jul 10, 2020 06:10
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Everyone's so hung up on the first two hours of the game that no one cares about the ending anymore! Who the hell was that mysterious inmate who'd mastered the forbidden technique of [D E E S C A L A T I O N]? This is the first time since Sam & Henry that a gun has been drawn on someone without requiring their blood be shed by the end of the day.
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Jul 10, 2020 08:45
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The Neal! posted:I just watched the horde sequence again and it's clearly stated that the horses weren't going to make it all the way back to Jacksonville and Joel made it clear that the house they were in wasn't going to hold them off. Abby's solution is their only lifeboat in a lovely situation and they grab onto it. I think after that acting friendly and accommodating to the heavily armed group that has helped pull you out of shark infested waters is the right move whether you're a gruff no nonsense survivor or someone completely naive. The only scenario where that isn't a good idea is the extremely unlikely one where they're looking specifically for you to kill. In It For The Tank posted:Same outcome, same shock value, same implication that Joel has lost his edge, but without the "hyuck, was it something I said?" level of ignorance. PancakeTransmission fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Jul 10, 2020 |
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Jul 10, 2020 08:59
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You're never going to make the 'here's how to beat the Mist from The Mist in three easy steps crowd' so I'm glad they didn't betray the characters or story by wasting time measuring out exactly where in the room the real Joel would have stood.
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Jul 10, 2020 09:02
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Bust Rodd posted:Manny and Jesse being murdered in the exact same way unceremoniously is a storytelling device, them mirroring each other so completely is the opposite of weak writing IMO. Would you mind elaborating on that ? (genuinely curious) In It For The Tank posted:Yes, that's the point of contention: it would be possible to script and direct the scene in such a way that the same outcome happens (Joel gets kneecapped, Tommy is knocked out) while avoiding any contrivances that feel like the writers were trying to get the scene over with and just had Joel (and Tommy) behave in a bizarrely incongruent way to speed things along. Yup, and to get back to the ski lodge escape scene, they could very easily frame it as: - Abby offers to regroup with her people - Joel argues it's too risky and they should just ride back to Jackson immediately - Tommy (who is clearly calling the shots in this scene) overrides him because the other place is closer - They leave It doesn't look like much but it ackownledges the risk they're taking and has the added benefit of putting a massive responsibility on Tommy's shoulders that sets up his eventual descent -relapse?- into a complete piece of poo poo. (that's another thing that rubbed me the wrong way but whatever) Bust Rodd posted:This isn’t fair, this far into the apocalypse anyone outside of a fortified city needs to be able to handle themselves around weapons and zombies. I'm not arguing that Joel should act like an rear end in a top hat to everyone (although he often does ), I'm simply accounting for the following: The game shows us that Jackson is very well organised. This is shown in the patrol logs and routes, written accounts of survivors joining and leaving, the signposts, Jessie being immediately on the ball when Tommy and Joel do not report back on time etc. The game also shows us Joel being overprotective of Ellie when she starts patrolling: he knows the risks. Again, this is 25 years into the apocalypse, Jackson might make it seem like things have gone back to normal but major cities are controlled by warring factions, infected are still a major threat and everything from the wildlife (the game mentions bears!) to roaming gangs can jump you unprompted. Remember Marlene's speech at the end of TLoU: "you can't save her. Even if you get her out of here then what ? How long before she gets torn to shreds by a pack of clickers ? That is if she's not been raped and murdered first." and she's right. I get that they want to convey a sense of normalcy but this is not summer camp, it's just absurd to have these two experienced survivors not even enquire how large of a group Abby's is at any point. She could be lying to them of course but it's not even there.For reference this is how Joel and Ellie are welcomed to Jackson in TLoU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIvn1Y_sah4&t=702s Anyway, I'll have large fries, onion rings and guac with that order please.
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Jul 10, 2020 09:30
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It's also worth remembering that 'Joel stupidly stands in the middle of a roomful of people ' is really more 'Joel walks into a room with a crowd and they subtly move to surround him'.
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Jul 10, 2020 09:37
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i finished the game a day ago, and i think the thing that struck me the most, other than the ridiculous escalation in violence, was how bleak the score was. the first one had a melody (albeit quite melancholy), this one was just electronic droning and pulsing, with occasional a-ha.
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Jul 10, 2020 09:39
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Just beat this. I’ll probably have more thoughts after getting some sleep, but: I think Abby had the better three days. Her sequences were more fun, her weapons are more fun, and she had all the best set pieces and most of boss fights. Abby Day 2 in particular is so much better than Ellie Day 2. TLOU3 should borrow even more from the REmakes and Uncharted. Also more boss fights and multi-faction battles. RareAcumen posted:Everyone's so hung up on the first two hours of the game that no one cares about the ending anymore! Mel tried but Owen just had to bungle the situation (and the gun) again. A lot of characters are operating on only partial information that gets them killed (or nearly so).
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Jul 10, 2020 09:40
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Pulcinella posted:Just beat this. I’ll probably have more thoughts after getting some sleep, but: Abby's segments introduce Yara and Lev who are by far the best new characters in this sequel so she wins hands down for sure.
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Jul 10, 2020 09:44
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