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BearDrivingTruck posted:Don't you have to use your own deck for max AP? Oh maybe? I never bothered to get max AP since I inevitably find I missed like five things unless I used a walkthrough.
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Jul 12, 2020 17:58
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They did a holding back moment in that same card game
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Jul 12, 2020 18:30
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Beating Arianrhod sounds like such absolute bullshit that I'm dreading it. The singular boss fight against a portrait I've had in Zero so far ends the same way. He calls you nerds and stops holding back, and tells your holding back team member to stop too, and then the cavalry arrives and no one had to stop holding back. On a slightly related note, Sky has no semblance of time really, so I was in disbelief that we went from Walter treating us like squeaky toys to beating him and others in rapid succession. Its a minor issue, but I've always disliked that stuff where nothing has actually changed, but now we win for some reason. I'm gonna list the things the series does to have bossfights and not ruin its power levels. 1. They sick monsters on you. 2. The game just prevent you from being near an antagonist with a portrait. 3. They hold back, and then get serious after you earn it. I personally like 3 best, the story advances without mooks, and you get to fight something that isnt just a big monster. 2's the worst for me since Trails has done nothing if not make monsters seem like a joke barring Cryptids which are basically monsters with portraits. Not forgetting those events, I just don't think either of them compares to sunscreen or are evidence that Rean partakes in the harem nonsense. They certainly exist, but theyre accidents that he wasn't at fault for and theyre so far apart that they don't compound. I'm not really bothered either way, But I see Lloyd's active hareming as much more invasive compared to Rean's passive hareming. Tbh, my biggest issue with Zero has been the lack of bloat so far. I love the 4 SSSkateers, but having them alone for the majority of my 110 turbo hours has been getting pretty drat stale. And Crossbell seems to do it's absolute best to keep you from the portraits as much as possible with the locked off bits of town and no one being in their homes or anything most of the time barring the Hayworths. Kea has been doing wonders so far alleviating this cuz Dad Simulator OP.
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Jul 12, 2020 18:34
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so I heard that Renegade in Ys 9 will let me satisfy my Hugo itch
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Jul 12, 2020 18:48
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MythosDragon posted:Beating Arianrhod sounds like such absolute bullshit that I'm dreading it. Might need to grind a little for it, but you can probably fight her pretty much normally if you have someone casting Kindness Rune.
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Jul 12, 2020 19:14
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VHGS posted:Might need to grind a little for it, but you can probably fight her pretty much normally if you have someone casting Kindness Rune. Ahh the gameplay part is fine, I'm talking lore wise.
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Jul 12, 2020 19:18
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Ah, I see. I think that one avoids most of the traps that those scenes tend to fall into. It helps that the gameplay sells how freakishly strong she is way better than it ever does for McBurn or any of those other jobbers.
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Jul 12, 2020 19:42
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I have to say that by this point 'power levels' feel kind of pointless to me. I don't feel like there's any clear way to tell how much more powerful someone is compared to someone else. I don't think they do a good job of showing it because gameplay is effectively pointless as far as that goes. Especially since every character needs to be 'roughly' on the same level despite massive gaps in power in theory. Take Machias for example. He's part of Class VII and treated roughly as importantly as the rest of them but his special power is "has a shotgun." He has absolutely nothing special about him except a shotgun. Yet in essence he's on the same playing field as people with legendary powers. In theory skill can overcome power in the Trails universe but there's no real well to judge someone's skill because everyone is on the roughly same nebulous level with few exceptions. How strong is Estelle compared to Lloyd? How much better or worse at swordplay is Rean to Cassius Bright? How much better at magic is The Fool compared to Vita? New Class VII is at least in theory keeping up with Old Class VII so just how strong are they? How does Juna stand up to Lloyd at this point? She's battling Cryptids and legenday powerful enemies alongside Old Class VII. Is she more talented than Lloyd? I don't mind trying to keep power levels but the problem is that they're not good at it. Just a weird nebulous area where everyone is 'close.'
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Jul 12, 2020 20:11
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I don't pay attention to gameplay for this, after all Falcom calls Trails Story RPGs despite the fact that RPGs are defined by focusing on story in the first place. I think the series has done amazingly at selling all the strongest people as horrifically powerful. Cassius, Mcburn, Arianrhod, Aurelia, and Victor are all absolutely terrifying and I'd piss my pants if I was told to fight them with my life on the line. I'm sad Barkhorn never got to show off. I know everyone loves Leonhardt, but he's actually the one I believed least. Using Class 7 as an example, I think the series has done great at telling me Rean, Laura, Gaius, Fie, and technically Emma are the combat members. I never once thought Machias, Elliot, or Alisa were meant to be portrayed as strong, just that they're part of the team and try to help, though they might be able to pull a Toval off in the future. Jusis and Millium are middle ground where I wouldnt scoff at you if tried to tell me they were strong, but I don't really think so myself. Crow pisses me because he's weak with guns, but then he's strong with a dual saber, but then hes strong with guns after, so I give you him. MythosDragon fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jul 12, 2020 |
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Jul 12, 2020 20:26
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Power levels are perfectly easy to judge, all you have to do is tally together the amount of times someone remarks that the character was "holding back" after a fight. The more times they've held back, the more powerful they are. This means Rean is by far the strongest being in existence btw.
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Jul 12, 2020 21:09
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MythosDragon posted:I know everyone loves Leonhardt, but he's actually the one I believed least. I'm surprised with that one, given his whole entry combat-wise is "his clone utterly beats down the party and leaves". It's the fact that it's not even him that beats down the endgame party, just a craft clone, that sells it to me.
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Jul 12, 2020 22:35
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MythosDragon posted:I don't pay attention to gameplay for this, after all Falcom calls Trails Story RPGs despite the fact that RPGs are defined by focusing on story in the first place. It isn't just gameplay though. Class VII, as a unit, is treated as an incredibly powerful fighting force. Nobody even addresses the idea that Machias and Jusis might not actually be On The Same Level. Alisa at least gets a case of "I need something extra" with her power armor but those two are just kind of there. I genuinely don't know how they compare in the grand scheme of things because the game just gives no indication. Whose level are they on? There are characters who are Obscenely Strong and generally you can assume they are the top tier, but even then you don't really get a clear idea of how other characters compare to them. I don't know how close Rean is to Aurelia despite them having multiple duels. Is he not even close? Is he just a hair below? His last duel with her in CS3 seems to imply that she was actually pushed to stand against him so he must be pretty high up there even if he isn't on her level. But let's go below the top tier because that is where the greater problem lies to me. Where do the characters who are extremely strong but not The Strongest stand? Could Fie stand up to Sara now? Is that blue-haired butler whose name I can't remember but who is strong enough to punch out magic golems on the same level as Angelica? Is Claire actually a serious combat threat despite having the power of "A gun" and "some gadgets" or is she just support for them? How strong is Rufus exactly? You have so many characters (and many of them filling the exact same archetypes) that it's really difficult to tell how they stand up. I can assume that characters like McBurn are extremely top tier high level threats but the game doesn't do a good job of selling how dangerous they are compared to the other characters. I genuinely don't know if Class VII could kill McBurn or not, since he exists in a weird state where he never quite loses but Class VII's strongest combat members can keep him and Arianrhod to a standstill at the same time. I don't know if New Class VII are insanely talented enough that they aren't a liability when dragged into massive danger or if Rean effectively dragging three people with no special superpowers or talents into fights against Cryptids, Golems and other horrifying things that normally require giant robots to stand up against. And that's just CS cast. Both the Skies and Crossbell casts are treated as significant enough dangers that they are both effectively put under lock and key by the Empire to avoid them loving things up!
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Jul 12, 2020 23:11
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I just started poking around at Trails from Zero, and it feels somewhat less dated than Sky which I'm glad for. I also am liking the setting so far mostly being the big city.
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Jul 13, 2020 01:08
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ImpAtom posted:Could Fie stand up to Sara now? Is that blue-haired butler whose name I can't remember but who is strong enough to punch out magic golems on the same level as Angelica? Is Claire actually a serious combat threat despite having the power of "A gun" and "some gadgets" or is she just support for them? How strong is Rufus exactly? No, Yes, Yes, gently caress Rufus, cuz I agree with you. Fie is 18, Sara is 27, and they lived similar lives with similar combat specialties. I personally view Sara as more talented, but Fie might catch up faster with better teachers. Celestin is a super butler and he's what, 30ish? Man's probably among the top 5 of the entire Hyarms family. While Angelica has never struck me as stronger than Alisa, just older. Claire's super power is spatial awareness, so projectiles in her hands are much more deadly than in anyone else's hands. If you ask me, Olivert is definitely weaker than her, and she might just be the strongest ranged specialist in the series barring anyone else with similar abilities. I hate Rufus tbh, I basically feel like he's treated on the same level of genius as Renne, but without any of the justifications. He's somehow managed to: Run a territory, become as strong as an enforcer, and do all his ironblood responsibilites, keep the latter two secret. I don't see any feasible way for this to have happened. They're a liability, but not a big one is basically the answer. I don't dislike them, but them dragging the overall level of the team down does bother me. Trails features body strengthening despite not dedicating many discussions to it, so my view is B's can hold on against S and not immediately become liabilities. Erebonia wasnt worried about their combat strength, they just didnt want any Heroes getting ideas. We all know how impulsive Lloyd and Estelle are. I was sold on Mcburn the moment his voice shifted on the Pantagruel, that kinda poo poo always means power. And then the CS2 finale where the infernal castle is destroyed in the aftermath of his fight with Victor? Aidos man, just Aidios. Cyouni posted:I'm surprised with that one, given his whole entry combat-wise is "his clone utterly beats down the party and leaves". It's the fact that it's not even him that beats down the endgame party, just a craft clone, that sells it to me. I'm mostly bothered by the fact that he started training at 17, and got to the strongest in less than 10 years. Talent shouldnt mean much of anything without years of training or extreme circumstances and I heard of neither with him. I dont even know how he makes clone's so I can't take that too seriously. Mcburn for example, has otherworldly fire, that's just automatically threatening and works, but more complex powers like clones need justification and explanation in my book. MythosDragon fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jul 13, 2020 |
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Jul 13, 2020 01:26
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MythosDragon posted:No, Yes, Yes, gently caress Rufus, cuz I agree with you. Leonhardt does actually have years of training. He also has a magical sword of doom. Unfortunately they don't actually explain either of these outside his manga beyond vaguely mentioning that Kernviter's weird.
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Jul 13, 2020 01:44
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IIRC don’t Rean and Laura have a discussion on whether or not swords even have a place in a world with guns and that they need to redouble their training as to not be left behind? Maybe guns are just that much of an equalizer that Machias can hang tough with classmates. I do love that despite being a guy who’s power is “has a shotgun”, one of Machias’ crafts just lets him casually and inexplicably break the time barrier by shooting it Edit: gently caress, I forgot Juna can do that too. Maybe that really is the power of gun
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Jul 13, 2020 02:29
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Scrap Dragon posted:IIRC don’t Rean and Laura have a discussion on whether or not swords even have a place in a world with guns and that they need to redouble their training as to not be left behind? Maybe guns are just that much of an equalizer that Machias can hang tough with classmates. It was tanks, they were talking about how vehicular warfare slaughters infantry like nothing. But the argument still applies, Orbal tech is amazing, and being good with an orbal weapon does not make you weaker than someone whos good with normal weapons like in other series. I really like Trails setting of dealing with the issues of tech turning war into a meat grinder with little purpose, but also saying if you try hard enough you can mano a mano a gundam.
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Jul 13, 2020 02:49
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Scrap Dragon posted:I do love that despite being a guy who’s power is “has a shotgun”, one of Machias’ crafts just lets him casually and inexplicably break the time barrier by shooting it bullet time
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Jul 13, 2020 02:50
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Scrap Dragon posted:IIRC don’t Rean and Laura have a discussion on whether or not swords even have a place in a world with guns and that they need to redouble their training as to not be left behind? Cue the end of the same game where wires and swords destroy multiple mechs
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Jul 13, 2020 02:54
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As it should be
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Jul 13, 2020 03:03
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Honestly I feel like Aurelia piloting a Panzer Soldat should downgrade her overall power since even tuned up it's just a robot whereas she could probably solo plenty of them on her own.
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Jul 13, 2020 03:07
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Aurelia's Soldat doesn't have an engine, she pushes & pulls it around herself it's basically training weights
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Jul 13, 2020 03:09
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Machias is the strongest because he has the best, dumbest s-craft.
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Jul 13, 2020 03:10
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Gorelab posted:Machias is the strongest because he has the best, dumbest s-craft.
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Jul 13, 2020 03:15
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I feel bad for Toval. I am supposed to believe this dude can loving go, and given what gear he's working with he absolutely should by all accounts. But they never did him right in any cutscenes. Toval has the power of "exists" and can magic ok I guess.
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Jul 13, 2020 06:15
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Shinjobi posted:I feel bad for Toval. I am supposed to believe this dude can loving go, and given what gear he's working with he absolutely should by all accounts. But they never did him right in any cutscenes. Toval has the power of "exists" and can magic ok I guess. He broke a cliff with his mad arts skills. But yeah I agree, Toval never gets adequate time to shine, Niethardt got more time despite not being as important and that bothers me. KeA has saved Zero, Dad Simulator Godly.
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Jul 13, 2020 06:25
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MythosDragon posted:I'm mostly bothered by the fact that he started training at 17, and got to the strongest in less than 10 years. Talent shouldnt mean much of anything without years of training or extreme circumstances and I heard of neither with him. I dont even know how he makes clone's so I can't take that too seriously. Mcburn for example, has otherworldly fire, that's just automatically threatening and works, but more complex powers like clones need justification and explanation in my book. Well, we actually know years of training thanks to Joshua. Even without dipping into the manga, we know from 3rd that Arianrhod at least regards him highly and has sparred with him more than once. We also know his sword can slice through super-invincible barriers. (I do always find it funny that within Ouroboros, Loewe is generally better regarded in every fashion compared to Weissmann.) Toval's kinda weird because it always implies he can shoot off arts super fast and then he always looks completely normal in cutscenes.
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Jul 13, 2020 06:47
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Cyouni posted:Toval's kinda weird because it always implies he can shoot off arts super fast and then he always looks completely normal in cutscenes. RIP Toval, completely invalidated by smart quartz setups and/or Rean's Brave Order.
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Jul 13, 2020 07:00
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Cyouni posted:Well, we actually know years of training thanks to Joshua. Even without dipping into the manga, we know from 3rd that Arianrhod at least regards him highly and has sparred with him more than once. We also know his sword can slice through super-invincible barriers. Arianrhod specifically says that Loewe never lost to her on Byronia island in CS3, as I recall, something which McBurn retorts he's incapable of matching. Meanwhile we saw Toval hold his own single-handedly against Campanella, the most powerful enforcer in terms of arts and a general wildcard. During Ordis doesn't he negate one of The Fool's arts after it was cast at him? That's pretty impressive.
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Jul 13, 2020 14:52
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MythosDragon posted:He broke a cliff with his mad arts skills. But yeah I agree, Toval never gets adequate time to shine, Niethardt got more time despite not being as important and that bothers me. thank god for kea, the only "family" member that nobody in the games is horny for. Just a totally familial loving relationship.
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Jul 13, 2020 19:08
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Oh wow, Zero has a lot more tie ins with the Sky series than I expected. Which is kinda fun considering I haven't completed that yet, but so far the only full on spoiler was something I had already figured out.
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Jul 14, 2020 02:42
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I finally found a reason to disappointed that I played CS1&2 first. I already know Anton crashes and burns with Fran so my enjoyment of Anton being Anton was slightly lessened.
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Jul 14, 2020 10:57
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MythosDragon posted:KeA has saved Zero, Dad Simulator Godly. Okay, but how does everyone know to spell her name with a capital A from the moment she introduces herself (verbally)? That still bugs me.
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Jul 14, 2020 12:00
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same way they know how to pronounce ∴
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Jul 14, 2020 12:02
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Therefore
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Jul 14, 2020 12:14
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They kept sky's battlegrunt actors for Joshua and Estelle, and for Joshua's VA I'm not happy. Always thought JYB and his ever prevalent Ichigo voice was extremely ill fitting for the primarily soft spoken and reserved Joshua and I hated all the grunts whenever I heard them. Should hopefully be less of an Issue now that he's 20, but I really don't want him back for potential Sky remakes or anything. New Trailer for Estelle, Joshua, Lloyd and Elie.
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Jul 15, 2020 01:01
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Are you linking a trailer there? It’s not showing if so
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Jul 15, 2020 01:52
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Nah, I was just mentioning the context of why I suddenly said this since I felt like I was supposed to. https://www.gematsu.com/2020/07/the-legend-of-heroes-trails-of-cold-steel-iv-character-trailer MythosDragon fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 02:10
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I just realized just how much the music/general scene when the hacker stuff first comes up in Tokyo Xanadu was taken from Zero.
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Jul 15, 2020 04:06
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 this is the most important hajimari news
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