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Good to see they didn't watch it since the match apparently starts "so drat slow" with nothing happening when one of the first things to happen is Naito repeatedly bashing Evil's brains out on a table. Par for the course regarding complaints about the match.
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Jul 13, 2020 20:28
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MassRafTer posted:Good to see they didn't watch it since the match apparently starts "so drat slow" with nothing happening when one of the first things to happen is Naito repeatedly bashing Evil's brains out on a table. Par for the course regarding complaints about the match. Yeah, it's a really weird take. Did the match go on too long? Sure, I'll buy that. Was there too much shenanigans? I dunno, isn't this just what Gedo does a lot of the time? Naito won the HW belt the first time with interference too. I think if you don't like Gedo's booking that's a fair position but if you do it doesn't seem like much of a deviation. Was the match over with the live crowd? That's indisputable. Was it what you expect from a Dominion main event? Nah, but then again last years main event went down like a lead balloon too. Was the start slow? As soon as Red Shoes forced Bullet Club from ring side it absolutely was not slow. It slowed down after that but not really much slower than an Okada match. I'd prefer EVIL was doing 20 minute matches to 30 minute matches but that's just where we are with New Japan, the expectation is that title matches will not be sprints. You know that going in. Sure, writing "light booing is a really big reaction" looks silly in isolation but when fans mostly stuck to the "just clap please" message that was strongly advertised around the building for the rest of the show it's not nothing. I think the finish felt flat but most of the match had, relative to the circumstances, strong heat in the building. EVIL did indeed get lightly booed several times. Now I'm biased because the big reveal got me super excited because I absolutely never saw it coming & also sincerely love Dick Togo as a wrestler, super out of left field but in a really interesting way but even forgetting that for a bit I think the match was still good. I don't do star ratings but if I did I'd certainly be closer to ***3/4 or **** than WMOTY calibre. And no, it's not getting treated more lightly just because it's New Japan. That's just a weird comparison (& also there are absolutely people on here who have talked about it as a WMOTYC match, they are bonkers but it happened.) I expected coming out of this that it'd be the Naito fans who were the most upset but it turns out it's really not.
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Jul 13, 2020 20:55
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dude you aren't the deifier of who did or did not watch a match, especially as you know drat well a lot of people here watched the match and came away with the same view people think the match was bad, a lot of people do, handwaving them as "well clearly they didnt watch the match par for the course" is dickish bullshit
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Jul 13, 2020 20:55
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Lid posted:dude you aren't the deifier of who did or did not watch a match, especially as you know drat well a lot of people here watched the match and came away with the same view Yeah, but there's a difference between an opinion like "match was bad" & a factually incorrect statement like "match started very slow"
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Jul 13, 2020 21:03
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Lid posted:dude you aren't the deifier of who did or did not watch a match, especially as you know drat well a lot of people here watched the match and came away with the same view If they actually watched it they should be able to accurately describe what happened in it. Seems logical.
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Jul 13, 2020 21:05
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MassRafTer posted:If they actually watched it they should be able to accurately describe what happened in it. Seems logical. They did actually watch it, as did the people also who said nothing happened, because maybe they just see EVIL hitting Naito's head on a table as "oh well that happened" and then ignoring that things didnt happen again for ten minutes and then nothing happening for anoither twenty. Like we're not even talking "oh man they opened with a big spot and then things slowed down" it's "we opened with a heel hitting a faces head into a table". Congratulations to you for saying thats a huge thing everyone should focus on and those who seriously did not care about it clearly arent watching wrestling with your perfect analytical abaility.
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Jul 13, 2020 21:08
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Lid posted:They did actually watch it, as did the people also who said nothing happened, because maybe they just see EVIL hitting Naito's head on a table as "oh well that happened" and then ignoring that things didnt happen again for ten minutes and then nothing happening for anoither twenty. Like we're not even talking "oh man they opened with a big spot and then things slowed down" it's "we opened with a heel hitting a faces head into a table". Congratulations to you for saying thats a huge thing everyone should focus on and those who seriously did not care about it clearly arent watching wrestling with your perfect analytical abaility. I suppose it is possible they watched it and didn't pay attention. You are right that could be the reason that review was so inaccurate.
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Jul 13, 2020 21:09
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luckily throught the magic of "having a GDT" in real time from people watching we get to see... well zero posts about the apparently huge impact of EVIL hitting Naito's head into a table had, but a lot on how the biggest things in the match were in the first 30 minutes were Milano and Red Shoes while nothing else was happening. I guess they weren't watching either.
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Jul 13, 2020 21:13
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Lid posted:luckily throught the magic of "having a GDT" in real time from people watching we get to see... well zero posts about the apparently huge impact of EVIL hitting Naito's head into a table had, but a lot on how the biggest things in the match were in the first 30 minutes were Milano and Red Shoes while nothing else was happening. I guess they weren't watching either. not watching is a time-honored PSP posting tradition
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Jul 13, 2020 21:14
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Aye Doc posted:not watching is a time-honored PSP posting tradition fair!
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Jul 13, 2020 21:14
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Lid posted:luckily throught the magic of "having a GDT" in real time from people watching we get to see... well zero posts about the apparently huge impact of EVIL hitting Naito's head into a table had, but a lot on how the biggest things in the match were in the first 30 minutes were Milano and Red Shoes while nothing else was happening. I guess they weren't watching either. I have no comment on whether or not the people in the GDT were watching, my comment was about the Bryan and Vinny show. I could be right and they didn't watch, you could be right and they didn't pay attention. The important thing is they said something profoundly stupid.
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Jul 13, 2020 21:15
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MassRafTer posted:I suppose it is possible they watched it and didn't pay attention. I mean we are talking about Bryan, right?
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Jul 13, 2020 21:16
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OctoberCountry posted:I mean we are talking about Bryan, right? He is only the person who described the main event of a Wrestlemania wrong for a decade.
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Jul 13, 2020 21:17
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MassRafTer posted:He is only the person who described the main event of a Wrestlemania wrong for a decade.
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Jul 13, 2020 21:25
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jesus WEP posted:What's the story behind this, it sounds good For years Bryan ranted about how boring the HHH/Orton match was and how stupid this big grudge match started with a lock up and WRESTLING. No one cares about the match so it took years for someone to remember that the match actually started with HHH pounding on Orton and Orton hitting an RKO really early. It was a really common Bryan rant too, one he'd use when a grudge match started with wrestling and not brawling.
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Jul 13, 2020 21:29
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Oh yeah, doesn't HHH hit the Pedigree right away too? Like the idea of hitting the finishers right away and both guys having blown their best ammunition is kinda interesting, but it should be the start to a match that goes less than 10 mins. Like, I remember the original IWGP US title tournament did something similar with Jay Lethal knowing he basically had to hit the Lethal Injection on Kenny Omega right away or he was hosed... the match went 10 minutes and ended with the OWA because Jay was right, he was hosed.
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Jul 13, 2020 21:50
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Yeah that’s the match where they do their finishers in the first minute or two and then slowly drag out the next twenty-something minutes. I also think that’s the one where the blood feud had a “title changes hand on a DQ” instead of doing no DQ to blow off a feud that involved home invasion and Orton knocking Stephanie out and all sorts of nonsense. It also went on almost right after Taker/Michaels. There might have been a women’s match in between. edit: speaking of “title changes hand on DQ” matches, the only good one I can even think of that engages the gimmick as anything more than a vague threat is Orton/Christian, where Christian pissed Orton off enough that he just kicked him in the nuts right in front of the referee and lost the match.
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Jul 13, 2020 23:07
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"if the AEW audience is a bunch of people that have watched WWE all their lives and are now watching AEW because they're sick of Raw and Smackdown, then yes, Jungle Boy probably needs a big win" - Bryan I wasn't aware there was another type of AEW fan
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Jul 14, 2020 00:34
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Low Desert Punk posted:"if the AEW audience is a bunch of people that have watched WWE all their lives and are now watching AEW because they're sick of Raw and Smackdown, then yes, Jungle Boy probably needs a big win" - Bryan Some of lapsed WCW fans (not too many though because AEWs +50 numbers aren't great), also lots of younger people who got into it because they initially followed BTE because of its place on YT's platform. I think WWE/AEW crossover is a strangely small number, like between 15 and 20%.
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Jul 14, 2020 00:43
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MassRafTer posted:For years Bryan ranted about how boring the HHH/Orton match was and how stupid this big grudge match started with a lock up and WRESTLING. No one cares about the match so it took years for someone to remember that the match actually started with HHH pounding on Orton and Orton hitting an RKO really early. It was a really common Bryan rant too, one he'd use when a grudge match started with wrestling and not brawling. Oh yeah. "After all of these segments....THEY STARTED WITH A LOCK UP!!!". Said it for years.
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Jul 14, 2020 01:18
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JOHN CENA posted:Some of lapsed WCW fans (not too many though because AEWs +50 numbers aren't great), also lots of younger people who got into it because they initially followed BTE because of its place on YT's platform. I think WWE/AEW crossover is a strangely small number, like between 15 and 20%. That's probably slightly artificially low because it doesn't have a way to reflect people who got sick of WWE completely and thus don't watch the product anymore, but still got into wrestling via WWE.
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Jul 14, 2020 02:38
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Lid posted:Bryan and Vinny H A T E D Naito v EVIL Naito/Evil wasn't good, but the Muta/Onita deathmatch from August '99 is easily the worst NJPW main event I've ever seen.
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Jul 14, 2020 04:33
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Fun and rare instance of Bryan actively challenging Dave on WOR when Dave says Vince never opposed people wearing masks at the tapings which is hilarious levels of bullshit.
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Jul 14, 2020 11:41
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Low Desert Punk posted:"if the AEW audience is a bunch of people that have watched WWE all their lives and are now watching AEW because they're sick of Raw and Smackdown, then yes, Jungle Boy probably needs a big win" - Bryan *waves* hello! I haven't regularly watched WWE products since about 2005, but retained a love of wrestling that I tended to satisfy with indies and New Japan until being absolutely entranced by Double Or Nothing.
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Jul 14, 2020 14:30
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JOHN CENA posted:Some of lapsed WCW fans (not too many though because AEWs +50 numbers aren't great) people mostly assume that the average lapsed WCW fan is an old fella but I bet there are a lot of kids, pre-teens, and teens who bailed because wrestling completely stopped being cool after WCW died and finally found reason to come back
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Jul 14, 2020 14:38
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Aye Doc posted:people mostly assume that the average lapsed WCW fan is an old fella but I bet there are a lot of kids, pre-teens, and teens who bailed because wrestling completely stopped being cool after WCW died and finally found reason to come back I was a preteen during WCW's height and i'm in my mid thirties now, it's pretty strictly an old demographic.
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Jul 14, 2020 14:45
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JOHN CENA posted:I was a preteen during WCW's height and i'm in my mid thirties now, it's pretty strictly an old demographic. that’s smack dab in the middle of the 18-49 that networks care about, and 20+ years younger than the average nxt/wwe viewer, pretty sure you’re exactly what op was talking about.
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Jul 14, 2020 14:47
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mid 30s is a much different type of old than 50+ especially in tv ratings terms I believe AEW's fanbase is made up very heavily of 32-40 year olds who loved WCW and wished it was back, and woke up one day overwhelmingly happy to find that a bunch of anime dorks, the young bucks, and the son of a billionaire made it happen
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Jul 14, 2020 14:48
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Dave on Twitter saying he's a teacher at Standford when he's a guest lecturer is pretty sad.
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Jul 14, 2020 16:01
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81sidewinder posted:Dave on Twitter saying he's a teacher at Standford when he's a guest lecturer is pretty sad. I think the difference in wording he used is subtle but important, someone who taught rather than a teacher: https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1282883511091785728
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Jul 14, 2020 16:48
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Dave is completely right obviously. How else would you describe what he was doing?
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Jul 14, 2020 16:57
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I can’t believe Dave believes he’s the director of the sports entertainment department at Stanford
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Jul 14, 2020 16:57
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standford*
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Jul 14, 2020 16:59
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That's a great example of how dumb, and bad, people think schools are when they think guest lecturers don't teach anything.
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Jul 14, 2020 17:03
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njsykora posted:Fun and rare instance of Bryan actively challenging Dave on WOR when Dave says Vince never opposed people wearing masks at the tapings which is hilarious levels of bullshit. Dave on that segment was so bad. Saying it's not like Kevin Owens took a stand to Vince and then oh well, he did threaten to go home if people weren't wearing their masks.
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Jul 14, 2020 17:23
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MassRafTer posted:For years Bryan ranted about how boring the HHH/Orton match was and how stupid this big grudge match started with a lock up and WRESTLING. No one cares about the match so it took years for someone to remember that the match actually started with HHH pounding on Orton and Orton hitting an RKO really early. It was a really common Bryan rant too, one he'd use when a grudge match started with wrestling and not brawling. Holy poo poo I had no idea. This is incredible. I believe Dave has taught classes at Stanford before. Many years back he talked about grading papers. Naito/EVIL absolutely did not start off slow unless you’re hyperfocusing on the first 90 seconds of the match. HPJoker fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 18:23
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His red pen annotations continue overleaf and then onto three additional sheets and are mostly an unrelated biography of Buddy Landel
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Jul 14, 2020 19:40
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oh but seriously I posted:His red pen annotations continue overleaf and then onto three additional sheets and are mostly an unrelated biography of Buddy Landel Every three or four sentences there's a big ink splot to represent his coughing.
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Jul 14, 2020 20:00
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forkboy84 posted:Dave on that segment was so bad. Saying it's not like Kevin Owens took a stand to Vince and then oh well, he did threaten to go home if people weren't wearing their masks. The bit where he was asked a question about more Lions Break shows and steamrolled on about if EVIL being a draw and Bryan couldn't be arsed to correct him was also infuriating because I wanted to know the answer to this question
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Jul 14, 2020 20:33
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forkboy84 posted:The bit where he was asked a question about more Lions Break shows and steamrolled on about if EVIL being a draw and Bryan couldn't be arsed to correct him was also infuriating because I wanted to know the answer to this question IIRC, Dave said he'd have to (and would) ask about the plan for more Lions Break shows.
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Jul 14, 2020 20:58
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