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Jul 16, 2020 00:08
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Im gonna be honest i DONT think im gonna be about for the next 10 hours sorry in advance
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Jul 16, 2020 00:11
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honestly ##vote spokes people were apathetic towards lurker lunches last phase so here he’s trying to invent every reason in the book for me to be scummy instead of just bad so he can get town to play along with him and then when I flip town he’ll be like “well that guy was useless anyways”
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Jul 16, 2020 01:30
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On my way back from work, but I’ll do a re read of D1 in light of the flips. Looks like text really was just too defensive too quickly, but I think with as much as that was the centerpoint of discussion we can start bunching people up into possible scum pairs. Spokes is back In The hot seat but I’m a bit more concerned with somber and Roy, same as I was yesterday. Unfortunately I think NK spec won’t give us much D1, but at least IS was VT. Losing our tracker hurts though
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Jul 16, 2020 02:04
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sandnavyguy posted:On my way back from work, but I’ll do a re read of D1 in light of the flips. Looks like text really was just too defensive too quickly, but I think with as much as that was the centerpoint of discussion we can start bunching people up into possible scum pairs. Spokes is back In The hot seat but I’m a bit more concerned with somber and Roy, same as I was yesterday. Unfortunately I think NK spec won’t give us much D1, but at least IS was VT. Losing our tracker hurts though This summary says very little. Why Roy and I again? It's strange to connect us both line that when we haven't been on the same page really. Kinda need other people to check in to make this work.
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Jul 16, 2020 05:54
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Somberbrero posted:This summary says very little. Why Roy and I again? It's strange to connect us both line that when we haven't been on the same page really. Sorry, I was mostly tying back to my old post about everyone, I was just waiting for more engagement before I popped in my thoughts but be the change we want I guess. So, my thoughts before any flips were: sandnavyguy posted:You’re posting too much to lean on lurking, and at this point you really need to take some sort of solid for or against position on Text, or come up with some sort of case on someone, because you’re being so self-conscious and hesitant to make any decision it’s coming across as almost more performative than Text. for drowsy, and sandnavyguy posted:So, here’s my thoughts on the whole shebang: My leaning scum on you was due to how I felt you were being oddly polarized against text and focusing hard on spokes instead, who is both new (doesn’t matter but lends itself to an easy won’t be lynched target), and didn’t read through properly (possibly scummy, but,) instead of the more performative Text. Now, there have obviously been some changes to my thoughts based on the flips, but honestly not much. I wish I could say we could use the Text debate to drill into people for voting out a townie, but imo Text was too performative NOT to be the pick which made it so scum would not have to very far to twist their words or capitalize on the inertia. More incoming.
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Jul 16, 2020 06:30
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Text absolutely didn't have to be the pick, I feel like the reluctance to consider him is in part scum taking advantage of town apathy.
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Jul 16, 2020 06:44
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Wow this is what I get for mobile posting, barely readable gibberish. I apologize. Anyway, I feel that the flip would cast suspicion on Sci and Tommu as the major pushers. But as I’ve already said, I think Sci applied firm pressure that was completely justified for D1, and Text was unable to redirect or respond in a way that cleared our doubts. Tommu was aggressive as well, but meta Tommu is often pretty hard charging. More scum leaning on Tommu now, but not much. DMBoogie has, reasonably based on what they’ve told us, been rather absent relatively, and there’s not much there to work with. Spokes May be scum, but I’d think they’d have a bit more confidence if they had a scumbro. Roy, on the other hand, is still too on the fence for my liking, and if they were just a hesitant town I feel they’d probably be trying to case the waters or team up with someone more so than they are currently doing. I’m town, my defense is that even though I was an early proponent of text, that I voted based on my opinion of performativity, and I STILL think his defense was too bombastic.
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Jul 16, 2020 06:49
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Votecount for Day 2  Spokes (2): Somberbrero, dmboogie Somberbrero (1): Spokes Not Voting (4): Roydrowsy, sandnavyguy, Scientastic, TommuWith 7 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is July 18th, 2020 at 3 a.m. EDT -- that's in about 2 days, 1 hour.
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Jul 16, 2020 06:56
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Somberbrero posted:Text absolutely didn't have to be the pick, I feel like the reluctance to consider Spokes is in part scum taking advantage of town apathy. Mafia edit
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Jul 16, 2020 07:10
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Scientastic posted:I guess my point would be that that series of posts was something that happened that could have been commented on. Somber voted for it, and I know a lot of people dislike my stance on new players, and both of those could be comment-worthy. looking back on the scientastic vs. textbook poo poo i find i really dont like this case textbook obviously spiraled in a way that didnt help town but scientastic's entire case on him seems to be "hmm it's day one and you responded to someone calling you out, obvious scum" like scientastic gives a big list of things that textbook could have commented on, and like, thats valid, but it's also day one and i think its dumb to crucify someone for not being able to do that close a read in like their second ever game, like, c'mon, saying "you could have commented on the stance i have on new players, the stance i didn't actually say in this thread" is obvious bullshit
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Jul 16, 2020 07:11
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idk maybe i just relate to textbook, even as a more experienced mafia player im still very reactive in my play, i read and if theres anything that immediately jumps out to me i'll comment on that, but i still find it difficult to put my detective hat on and try to wring a case outta someone's ISO unsurprisingly enough people atting me on my twitter dot com account is always something that will jump out to me, that feels like a universal thing
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Jul 16, 2020 07:14
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Somberbrero posted:I don't like Scientastic being absent around deadline. I live in the UK, so I am almost never around for deadlines
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Jul 16, 2020 07:22
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dmboogie posted:i think textbook’s flip reflects poorly on science and i find it interesting that no one is bringing that up It’s probably because it doesn’t reflect badly on me. TO was scummy and got executed, these things happen. I do strongly dislike the fact that you are now trying to implicate me for the fact that we mislunched, that’s very bad and I know you know this.
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Jul 16, 2020 07:27
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I like Spokes’ posts, they seem authentic and non-self-conscious, and I find Somber’s pushing him pretty bad too. At the moment, just from reading the first few posts of the day, I am leaning Boogie/Somber
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Jul 16, 2020 07:28
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sandnavyguy posted:Unfortunately I think NK spec won’t give us much D1 Agreed, I don’t think that trying to work out why IS was NKed is productive
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Jul 16, 2020 07:31
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dmboogie posted:looking back on the scientastic vs. textbook poo poo i find i really dont like this case This is clearly Boogie setting up to get me executed, but waiting to see which way the wind blows before he starts really pushing me ##Vote DMB
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Jul 16, 2020 07:34
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i find the idea of a spokes/scientastic scumteam compelling. makes sense why scientastic voted them early in the day and then had a convenient excuse to unvote and never address their content again. dmboogie is town and tommu is town. Roy and SNG could be, but I don't think so.
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Jul 16, 2020 07:36
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DMB claiming my case was bullshit should have happened yesterday, he was happy to let two townies have a fight and sit back and not make any substantive comments
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Jul 16, 2020 07:36
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Somberbrero posted:i find the idea of a spokes/scientastic scumteam compelling. makes sense why scientastic voted them early in the day and then had a convenient excuse to unvote and never address their content again. dmboogie is town and tommu is town. Roy and SNG could be, but I don't think so. I assume you mean “Roy and SNG could be scum, but I don’t think so”?
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Jul 16, 2020 07:38
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Morning bedposting done, I’m off to make tea and feed the children their breakfast
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Jul 16, 2020 07:42
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Scientastic posted:I assume you mean “Roy and SNG could be scum, but I don’t think so”? Yes Scientastic posted:DMB claiming my case was bullshit should have happened yesterday, he was happy to let two townies have a fight and sit back and not make any substantive comments I disagreed with your case as the day went on but there was no conversation about it, so I have a hard time buying into this. Dmboogie's lack of involvement day one is a blank canvas you can project anything you want onto. A town mislunch is very common day one. Much the same way I can't really fault you for casing textbook, I don't think it's fair or reasonable to call dmboogie scum for lurking.
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Jul 16, 2020 07:45
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If you're going to call it fence sitting I would find Roy and sand much more believable as they were more active participants yesterday but also just kind of let things go without steering conversation.
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Jul 16, 2020 07:48
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And presumably you think that DMB trying to set me up for an execution today based on yesterday mislunch is just fine and dandy?
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Jul 16, 2020 08:21
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Somberbrero posted:If you're going to call it fence sitting I would find Roy and sand much more believable as they were more active participants yesterday but also just kind of let things go without steering conversation. I find this an odd read, I tried *desperately * to steer conversation to multiple avenues other than just text, and outright gave text a play by play of how to move on if they just misstepped (which, by the way, they didn’t take), which in and of itself was sticking my neck out because if they did flip scum, I’d have looked like I was trying to coach them or redirect attention. Obviously since I voted them I still felt they were scummy, but I certainly wasn’t at the level of non-committance Roy was showing.
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Jul 16, 2020 09:57
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sandnavyguy posted:I find this an odd read, I tried *desperately * to steer conversation to multiple avenues other than just text, and outright gave text a play by play of how to move on if they just misstepped (which, by the way, they didn’t take), which in and of itself was sticking my neck out because if they did flip scum, I’d have looked like I was trying to coach them or redirect attention. Obviously since I voted them I still felt they were scummy, but I certainly wasn’t at the level of non-committance Roy was showing. Basically what I’m saying is I’m still concerned about Roy being scum, and that maybe I’m just being stubborn but the Spokes case seems like newbie lack of awareness rather than scum.
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Jul 16, 2020 10:02
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Anyway, I’m casing away but should put my money where my mouth is. ##vote RoyDrowsy
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Jul 16, 2020 10:05
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sandnavyguy posted:Anyway, I’m casing away but should put my money where my mouth is. I keep getting told I was non-committal and on the fence. The primary topic of conversation on Day 1 was focused on Textbook. My stance on Textbook was abundantly clear "I think they're are playing like a new and dumb person". Hence... I didn't vote for them. I have to read some things and I will try to post what I can. Just a head's up... In about 90 minutes I am going to be tied up until much, much, much later today. So I will try to post as much as I can, making sure to clearly illustrate where the fence is in relation to myself, as there seems to be some confusion.
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Jul 16, 2020 11:40
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re-reading and making notes..Somberbrero posted:If I were going to ascribe meaning to it, I would say that I was too obvious a NK choice Looking Back, Why would you be an obvious NK choice? dmboogie posted:i think textbook’s flip reflects poorly on science and i find it interesting that no one is bringing that up I still feel a bit weird about Scientastic's vote on this. Given the way that Textbook flipped town, it doesn't feel any better. As I said before, I think the initial vote was in bad faith. Once the momentum of the Textbook vote started to pick up a little bit (as a flailing noob, all they had to do was just sit back and ride it out. Somberbrero posted:Text absolutely didn't have to be the pick, I feel like the reluctance to consider him is in part scum taking advantage of town apathy. You say that Text didn't have to be the pick, but you were the one who sorta sealed the deal. I realize that eventually you would need to commit to something, and Textbook was the obvious choice and you took it. Here is Where I stand: Scientastic: At this point, I am GASP! on the fence about Scientastic. Their vote for text led to the lynching of town, but their play about it was lazy. I am thinking at this point, they'd have to be really lucky scum to have landed on such an easy target right out the gate. I'm tempted to look more at some of the people who voted for Textbook later. Spokes: I have no idea what Spokes is doing. DMBoogie: Hasn't given us an abundance of things to work on. Tommu: As other people have said, I have town vibes here. I can't metagame anybody, but aggressive is their play style, and he was pretty much pushed into the position of the hammer vote. SandNavyGuy: For obvious reasons, I am not super thrilled about your vote for me. In particular because it is based on this idea that "Roy was on the fence about Textbook" when.... I wasn't. Somberbrero: I get the strong feeling things like "I'm an obvious night kill choice, and I'm still alive," is an interesting plant of language. I don't know what make you an obvious NK choice, but if you were that obvious, one way you could have survived the night is by not typing your name into the kill action. Your walk back of your Textbook vote sorta does the same thing. "He didn't have to be the one lynched" but your vote more or less ensured that it happened. ##vote Somberbrero Since people accuse me of hanging out with a fence post in my butt, I'm going to cast my vote. Somberbrero is most likely to be scum right now, possibly working with Scientastic? I'll be around for about 30 minutes to take questions
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Jul 16, 2020 12:15
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Scientastic posted:DMB claiming my case was bullshit should have happened yesterday, he was happy to let two townies have a fight and sit back and not make any substantive comments yeah it shouldve but i was way less engaged with the game yesterday, what can ya do, cant cry over sunken deck chairs
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Jul 16, 2020 15:32
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Votecount for Day 2 Somberbrero (2): Spokes, Roydrowsy Spokes (2): Somberbrero, dmboogie dmboogie (1): Scientastic Roydrowsy (1): sandnavyguy Not Voting (1): Tommu With 7 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is July 18th, 2020 at 3 a.m. EDT -- that's in about 1 day, 16 hours.
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Jul 16, 2020 15:57
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Somberbrero posted:If you're going to call it fence sitting I would find Roy and sand much more believable as they were more active participants yesterday but also just kind of let things go without steering conversation. This isn't even remotely true. dmboogie was the textbook (heh) definition of a fence sitter. He posted as little as possible. This was his entire take on the day 1 text/sci discussion: dmboogie posted:hi sorry im busy and tired dmboogie posted:yeah sorry I think this was a bad time for a game to start for me lmao that's five lines of text: "sorry for not posting" "i think it might be science but i didn't really read" "sorry for not posting" "sorry for not posting" "textbook reminds me of me when people think i'm scum and i'm not" Meanwhile, SNG posted: sandnavyguy posted:So, here’s my thoughts on the whole shebang: A full list of reads, even expanding on some of his null reads in a follow-up: sandnavyguy posted:So null reads are pretty much because I’m not familiar with their posting styles or they haven’t posted much content, with three exceptions: He then specifically took a side in the sci/text debate and explained why: sandnavyguy posted:Honestly agree. My rule of thumb is lurker and Grand Performances are D1 targets and Text seems to be quite animated today. Not only a side in the debate, but pointing out that you were refusing to do the same despite professing strong opinions about it (which... you did, at the end of the day to complete the lunch). And then he even commented on what would happen if text flipped town: sandnavyguy posted:If you flip town, then my list will change significantly. For one, Sci would be in trouble. Two, Roy would be far less likely to be scum because my bussing theory would be shot, and I’d lean more on Somber. And not only did he take a side in that debate, he also mentioned that he was suspicious of Roy (for what could have been a bus on text) and you. On the Roy side: I agree with you somewhat, actually! he did post a LOT more than boogie without saying a substantial amount more. He did commit (somewhat) to his arguments. I think the "i misformatted my vote and didn't fix it to see what people would do" is super weird. But he also did accurately identify textbook as a panicked townie and held off on voting for him. He didn't always steer conversation, agreed, but he did actively participate and got the wagon rolling on textbook in the first place. I think SNG's day one was much more substantial in both volume and logical directed argument than Roy's and boogie's -- and indeed more substantial than most players. Picking him as a target when you're trying to defend boogie feels desperate to me. Like i said earlier, and the reason my vote is on you and not boogie: He was lurking and inactive and opportunistically fence-sitting. And that's whatever. And if i'm reading something scummy that isn't there, I'm certainly willing to listen to him explain (and i feel like he's started to). But what's really strange to me is how ardently you're defending him, even on Day 1 before you could have possibly investigated him. You could have just let it go and got more into the sci-text conflict because it's clear that's where voting attention was going. But you stayed on me until you had the opportunity to put the fourth vote on text and then suddenly you didn't care about my "suspicious behavior" anymore--until the next day after text flipped town and you got right back on me. I suspected you initially based on what i read as fence-sitting. But since then you've tried to tunnel me as an inexperienced and easy target, inexplicably defended boogie repeatedly, and called out SNG (??!?!) and Roy as people who supposedly fence-sat more than boogie. There's enough there for me to be confident in my vote, and my suspicion of boogie has actually gone down through day 2 and my suspicion of you has managed to go up. Here's my reads currently: Town: SNG -- nothing he's done has seemed like anything but genuine scum-hunting, and he's been willing to theorize, argue, and stand behind his convictions Leaning Town: Tommu -- again, as much as Tommu loves to argue and throw poo poo for the sake of it, they seems pretty clearly town-aligned Neutral: Sci - This isn't a neutral due to lack of evidence, it's a combination of scum and town vibes: As SNG mentioned, I think the text flip makes Sci look bad. But at the same time, Roy started the vote, Sci didn't. And Sci has continued to be active and engaged in what seems to be pro-town consideration. Leaning Scum: Roy -- Once I went back and read through D1 again I saw that he was a lot less involved than it seemed from his number of posts. And like I mentioned earlier, the initial vote-formatting thing on the text vote was bizarre. But when text flipped town i'm willing to buy Roy freaking out about starting a train on him as horror at getting a townie killed and not accidentally having to bus dmboogie -- So few posts D1 and the ones that he did come with were content to watch the votes fly and pick whoever looked suspicious while covering himself. But if I believe he actually didn't get the chance to read the thread much, I don't know how scummy he actually ends up being. And it took some prodding but he has come to post D2 and seems willing to put day 1 behind us and engage in scumhunting, which is good. Scum: Somberbrero -- See the rest of this post.
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Jul 16, 2020 17:27
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Scientastic posted:And presumably you think that DMB trying to set me up for an execution today based on yesterday mislunch is just fine and dandy? you're freaking out about dmb saying that your reasoning was bad yesterday when there aren't even any votes on you. if dmb was scum there would be no point to that.
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Jul 16, 2020 19:16
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sandnavyguy posted:I find this an odd read, I tried *desperately * to steer conversation to multiple avenues other than just text, and outright gave text a play by play of how to move on if they just misstepped (which, by the way, they didn’t take), which in and of itself was sticking my neck out because if they did flip scum, I’d have looked like I was trying to coach them or redirect attention. Obviously since I voted them I still felt they were scummy, but I certainly wasn’t at the level of non-committance Roy was showing. your vote sat on text almost the entire day.
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Jul 16, 2020 19:18
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Roydrowsy posted:re-reading and making notes.. because i fought the most for text. Roydrowsy posted:You say that Text didn't have to be the pick, but you were the one who sorta sealed the deal. I realize that eventually you would need to commit to something, and Textbook was the obvious choice and you took it. uhhh bullshit? i put him at -1 with just a few hours before deadline with only text and tommu and boogie posting inbetween then and deadline. the alternative was a no-lunch. i put together a spokes case that no one read. not even textbook would vote spokes when the alternative was him dying. Roydrowsy posted:Here is Where I stand: how are you going to vote WITH spokes whilst having no read on them? there are seven people alive, it's not that hard. Roydrowsy posted:DMBoogie: Hasn't given us an abundance of things to work on. how am i the one responsibility for textbook's flip? it was that or no-lunch. Somberbrero posted:It feels very much like there's no real consensus here and we're just going to slouch towards textbook bc he's abrasive. Which, I mean whatever, but I'm increasingly less confident in it. Roydrowsy posted:Since people accuse me of hanging out with a fence post in my butt, I'm going to cast my vote. 
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Jul 16, 2020 19:27
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Somberbrero posted:your vote sat on text almost the entire day. I mean, yes? the only other viable case in the discussion was spokes which I didn’t agree with. I know text flipped town but I abide by my original stance. I mean, my only case I was reading that made sense was text, since at that point my only other read for scum was you or drowsy, which has not improved D2 so I’m rectifying now by voting for drowsy. Hopping my vote around without strong cases in order isn’t exactly steering the convo so much as blatantly acting scummy
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Jul 16, 2020 19:33
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sandnavyguy posted:I mean, yes? the only other viable case in the discussion was spokes which I didn’t agree with. I know text flipped town but I abide by my original stance. I mean, my only case I was reading that made sense was text, since at that point my only other read for scum was you or drowsy, which has not improved D2 so I’m rectifying now by voting for drowsy. when you say you desperately tried to avoid text, when in actuality you almost exclusively voted text, it looks like a lie. do you see that?
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Jul 16, 2020 19:41
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Spokes posted:I think the "i misformatted my vote and didn't fix it to see what people would do" Spokes posted:
I have a brief moment to check in’s today has been a crazy day, my school just won a “school of excellence” award so I’m pretty excited about that. Recent Somber posts, I will have to look at and talk about later, but this Spoke stuff about me doesn’t make any drat sense, which makes me feel really funny for sharing the vote with him. And not like, funny “ha ha” but funny weird. My vote was incorrectly formatted as I’ve not played a game in five years, not because I wanted to see what people would do. That would be an odd play to make. I’m not the Winston Bishop of mafia players here. I didn’t do anything, because IllegallySober or somebody was like “I fixed it in votefinder” so there wasn’t anything for me to do. I didn’t do anything because it wasn’t a serious vote, so why edit a vote I didn’t intend to keep, over a formatting error? Also, I’m not freaking out about what happened to text, it is unfortunate, but it played out like I thought it would. I don’t think it’s fair to say I “started the bus”. I cast a vote in what I took to be jokephase nonsense... which Scientastic then jumped on (making it a real deal) and Textbook did most of the work themselves. (With the help of Somber’s vote, that he didn’t feel too passionate about ((so we know it was totally in the level)))
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Jul 16, 2020 19:50
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Spokes posted:This isn't even remotely true. dmboogie was the textbook (heh) definition of a fence sitter. He posted as little as possible. This was his entire take on the day 1 text/sci discussion: yeah dmboogie isn't even by the fence, he's inside the house. he wasn't waiting to see which way the wind blew, he was doing nothing. Spokes posted:Meanwhile, SNG posted: that list of reads is next to worthless. it means absolutely nothing without contextual reasoning and that's totally absent. when he does provide reasoning it's not good! quote:And Somber, who I have played with a couple times before and they seem a bit too cautious this close to DL than he had been in past games where he was town, making me lean scum on them. looking at this point, what does it actually mean? 1. sand has played with me in a couple games. 2. based on that experience in those games, i seem cautious approaching deadline. 3. because my behavior seems different from those games, i am scum. there's no textual support for this. the only game i remember with sand was the last eccogame and there are worlds of difference between that game and this game. it's the loosest possible meta case, there's no establishing context. Spokes posted:He then specifically took a side in the sci/text debate and explained why: lol this makes me so angry. i'm fully tilted by you riding your useless dmboogie vote that accomplished nothing while providing the appearance of contribution into the deadline, then trying to score points because i contributed to give us a flip in lieu of any other options. Spokes posted:And not only did he take a side in that debate, he also mentioned that he was suspicious of Roy (for what could have been a bus on text) and you. and did he say, you know, why he would be suspicious of me? Spokes posted:On the Roy side: I agree with you somewhat, actually! he did post a LOT more than boogie without saying a substantial amount more. He did commit (somewhat) to his arguments. I think the "i misformatted my vote and didn't fix it to see what people would do" is super weird. But he also did accurately identify textbook as a panicked townie and held off on voting for him. He didn't always steer conversation, agreed, but he did actively participate and got the wagon rolling on textbook in the first place. it would also be easy as scum to identify panicked town, y'know? it feels like you don't actually disagree with me but are pushing anyway. Spokes posted:I think SNG's day one was much more substantial in both volume and logical directed argument than Roy's and boogie's -- and indeed more substantial than most players. Picking him as a target when you're trying to defend boogie feels desperate to me. a) i'm not trying to push sand. i'm pointing out why i disagree with your reasoning . b) why on earth is it scummy for me to disagree with you on dmboogie? Spokes posted:I suspected you initially based on what i read as fence-sitting. But since then you've tried to tunnel me as an inexperienced and easy target, inexplicably defended boogie repeatedly, and called out SNG (??!?!) and Roy as people who supposedly fence-sat more than boogie. There's enough there for me to be confident in my vote, and my suspicion of boogie has actually gone down through day 2 and my suspicion of you has managed to go up. Here's my reads currently: There are seven people alive in this game and I'm pretty sure you are scum. let me know whenever it's okay to vote you! and now, that i finally get to the end of this post, i have fully processed that you agree with me on boogie and i have lost my loving mind. i'm going to walk away before i get any nastier than i've already been.
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Jul 16, 2020 19:51
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 21:46 |
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Well, I would, if it wasn’t for this post I made: sandnavyguy posted:Text, I appreciate that you came under heavy heat, and I agree that everyone’s jumped on your bandwagon pretty quickly. But, the best way to come out of this would not to be as performative, because even if you are town, building up such a staunch defense and so rapidly is pinging people like crazy Giving them an out, This post I made: sandnavyguy posted:Text, if you are town, and you overstepped, I’d say your best bet is to quickly move on, switch tactics and find a better case because rn we basically have everything thing tying back to you. If you are scum, keep on carrying on. Which gives them a play by play of how to remove MY vote a t least if no one else’s, as well as trying to drum up other cases so I didn’t HAVE to vote for someone I’m iffy about. If I just wanted a quick lunch or even a little town cared I’d hem and haw, sure, but I certainly wouldn’t be this forgiving to someone I’m actively trying to kill.
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Jul 16, 2020 19:51
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