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Deadbeat Dad
Jun 3, 2005

the trad games jinho
Kinda busy today but will be around from tomorrow afternoon on.

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merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
Taste why is Hal scum because of today?

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

merk posted:

Taste why is Hal scum because of today?

His claim comes abruptly after being named under an Ecco cop and conveniently fingers one of the most suspicious members of the town. His first real participation in the game comes, of course, as soon as it’s his neck on the line, and in trying to support his original claim offers a complex and convenient set of unverifiable joat powers that not-so-subtly imply a greater value lost in mislynch than what dbd has claimed for those on the fence.

This is clearly a self-preservation gesture from a player that’s been more concerned with sitting on the sidelines until it’s his time to face scrutiny

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
Taste what is your dbd read?

I think this game is coming together here.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Sub Rosa posted:

I still don't understand this play if Tokes was Vanilla Town and had no extra standing in the NK Masonry above the other people in the NK Masonry. I end up feeling there is something about the Masonry that still is unknown or unannounced. I don't believe that DGK is still the person submitting names, and so I'm wondering what Solus knows and isn't telling. Very worried Solus could be scum and invited scum to the NK Masonry. But I have mostly had a town read on Solus, and the one time I didn't and pressed, Solus' reaction seemed authentic to me. Something about publicly asking the person invited to the masonry not to reveal that does give a feeling they don't also share another masonry like scum chat, though, I guess. Still worried the NK Masonry will kill more town and we could end up not knowing who else is pulling the trigger.

yes, that's why we voted tokes.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

SolusLunes posted:

oh, right, completely forgot about that, I've been kind of out of it, haven't really gotten sleep in the last two days, keep getting interrupted by literal bats, fuckin' house is 110 years old

the questions were for DGK and "why do you keep submitting the cop" but for some reason people believe him

ANYWAY

ironically I invited in beet, because I've had a town read on him, that now I'm leery of because of the eccocop (though I still think it's Hal, personally)

That said,

even if beet IS scum, there's not much he can do about it- inviting new members needs to be unanimous approval, and I won't entertain suggestions of inviting in new members at the moment
kills require a majority, but since there's only two members, that again also essentially requires unanimous approval from the masonry, and I'm not killing the people I have town reads on
if I get NK'd and a scum beet is left in sole control of the masonry, he can't do a NK without inducting someone else, and that takes an entire night's action, so he can't use it to kill people as scum without at least a two day delay

now let me reiterate that all of this is IF beet is scum, which I don't think he is.

i can confirm that i am now in the cool club with solus.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

also, the past masonry chat history isn't interesting like i was hoping. sorry solus.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Sub Rosa posted:

Any insight on the other sigils on the puzzle? If they are related to your masonry?

hambeet, did you get a coin? What sigil was on it? Did it have an inscription on it?

i was gifted a silver coin and a limerick about a man named mike hunt.

nothing about an inscription / sigil. i don't see how that helps anything though?

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




hambeet posted:

also, the past masonry chat history isn't interesting like i was hoping. sorry solus.

Oh you can already read it? I presume it confirms how Solus has characterized the masonry then?

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

hey dgk i've just remembered something. have your thoughts changed on duplicating roles?

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Sub Rosa posted:

Oh you can already read it? I presume it confirms how Solus has characterized the masonry then?

yeah it's pretty spot on. ama.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

merk posted:

I have a case on DBD. I have a case on hambeet. I would vote either.

I believe Taste is town. I thought NGO was genuine at the end of the day yesterday.

The continued story that I am not making cases is fake and an attempt to discredit a good vote on scum DBD here.

the case on me is "he's reactionary".

i don't even really know how to respond to that. like i've legit put that in my mafia.txt for when i'm scum to use because it's an easy thing to not have to define and it isn't an easy thing to defend against.

also you thought ngo was genuine based on one short sentence. that's unreal.

(how's mum and bub?)

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Deadbeat Dad posted:

These are your last two pages of all your votes:












You literally vote anyone who has a pulse who has heat coming their way. Most of your "cases" are small quips and things you find inherently wrong with them (ie: my content in regards to Jen X)

You're skating by on mafia reputation and claiming you're playing a sincere game when I don't think you are.

yeah totally. i'd vote merk today.

Dans Macabre
Apr 24, 2004


I won't be here for deadline............ I need to know is merk really scum or not because I've been operating with him as town since the beginning. if he's pulling a fast one on me i need to know

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
Point 1: Hal's claim matches his play:

Hal Incandenza posted:

Very intriguing, I tracked you going nowhere

##vote DBD

Hal Incandenza posted:

Actually a second JOAT

N1 gunsmith sandwolf, cannot kill
N2 hide

D1 Hal:

Hal Incandenza posted:

I don't agree a whole lot with sandwolf, didn't think he was scummy at first but merks points are decent

Hal Incandenza posted:

##vote Sandwolf

N1 Hal: Investigates Sandwolf who cannot kill.

D2 Hal:

Hal Incandenza posted:

Also I think I was wrong about sandwolf yesterday, I feel pretty good about him being town today

N3 Hal: Tracks DBD to nowhere.
D3 Hal:

Hal Incandenza posted:

Very intriguing, I tracked you going nowhere

##vote DBD

On Sandwolf: I do not believe scum would setup a JOAT gunsmith claim like this so early.
On DBD: I do not believe scum would stick their neck out and counterclaim someone to create a thunderdome when there is zero heat whatsoever on Hal besides an Ecco Cop from a player no one trusts already.

Hal Incandenza posted:

Hmmm I think Spoonsy may be a scum JOAT, watcher is a good scum role especially in this game

Sorry I've been busy so far this weekend but I'm around tonight.

For now ##vote NGO, still scummiest post history

Hal attacks another JOAT claim, a reasonable thing for a Town JOAT to do.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Hal Incandenza posted:

I mean I have been pretty clear since Spoonsy claimed joat that I thought he was a scum JOAT so why would I feel like I need to vote for one of the ecco-copped players over a person who I have a result on that says they lied?

Also I was not very cool with spoosny also being a JOAT, where are you getting that from? Again, I said yesterday that I thought he was scum joat and he was my second choice after NGO yesterday, so not sure where you are thinking I had no issue with the double JOAT thing.

yes you did.

i guess that's why you voted them... oh

but you did push them hard.... oh no. not really.

Hal Incandenza posted:

Hmmm I think Spoonsy may be a scum JOAT, watcher is a good scum role especially in this game

Sorry I've been busy so far this weekend but I'm around tonight.

For now ##vote NGO, still scummiest post history

Hal Incandenza posted:

I'm not beet, but I do still think the claim mishap reads townie, but Spoonsy posting otherwise hasn't been doing much for me. Scum watcher Spoonsy really opens things up since it lets taste and DBD both be telling the truth and some other unreported visitor did the actual kill.

The whole intercepted message bit looks worse with no other messages reported as being intercepted

Hal Incandenza posted:

Sandwolf posted:

Hal would you be interested in a Spoonsy lunch?
Yeah but I feel better about doing NGO

Hal Incandenza posted:

How about Spoonsy?

that's it.

you mention them a few times, but it doesn't really seem like you want to do anything about it at that time either. you do ask merk if he'd vote spoonsy as we were close to deadline yesterday, but this is the closest you get to actually pushing for it. i'd describe that as relatively cool in light of someone claiming the same role as you.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

oh lol look. merk is defending hal again.

##vote hal

would vote merk too.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

merk posted:

If this is distancing, it’s weird that he’d add a “for now” to it and not even really explain the vote. Usually scum players don’t put in weasel language on other scum and somewhat naked distancing votes don’t feel very common to me.

Hal doesn’t ever revisit this later in the day though and it did come when there was minor JX heat (little risk).

I don’t know. With the phrasing, I don’t see this as a distance on JX.

okay, i've read that, but like your 'ngo looks genuine here post' i think you're trying to make something out of nothing.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
I am switching my tune on ##vote Spoonsy. Tokes was right d1 that Spoonsy had many votes and looked like the possible d1 lynch when he pulled the messenger gambit out of his hat. Looking at the actual context now that I'm on a computer, I think this was a scum gambit to create confusion away from Spoonsy.

Spoonsy posted:

Finishes working out and checks thread oh boy I wonder...

oh, cool. they're being dumb. Sigh.

Solus is the much better lunch choice. They're on the same side as Tokes. I don't know if its 3P or scum, but it's not pro town. You can't have one of them "oh boy I know what this means confirming!" the other without being aligned

Spoonsy posted:

I mean hell if it makes you all feel better, I intercepted (no I have no idea where it came from, no I cannot quote the image) a communication that told me that Asiina, JenX, Tokes, and Solus have a collective NK. As I said, can't say scum, can't say 3P, but not town!

The narrative here is that you have a scum come back to the thread, see a bunch of votes on him and he feels the need to create some diversion. I didn't really see it before I reviewed this morning.

Also, importantly on the Spoonsy situation is this:

Jen X posted:

##vote: spoonsy

I don't see the solus case, I really don't see the merk case (he feels...like merk, I don't really have any thoughts on him), I could buy sandwolf but I feel like him complaining all day about a meta-argument with merk is too dumb to treat as indicative of anything, and that's everyone with more than 1 vote

JX busses Spoonsy as the fifth vote on him before the diversion messenger claim.

For you conspiracy theorists out there:
Jen X busses Spoonsy at Jul 6, 2020 17:26
Spoonsy does his mega reveal at Jul 6, 2020 17:31

JX is chatting in scum chat and says she feels compelled to bus Spoonsy here. Moments later, Spoonsy gets into scum chat. Spoonsy asks for a lifelife on how he can be saved. The messenger gambit is formed.

It all seems really simple now that I've actually done the work.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

and again, it's another example of you trying to defend hal. what's the deal? are you lovers?

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

hambeet posted:

and again, it's another example of you trying to defend hal. what's the deal? are you lovers?

I have a town read on a player. I am explaining why.

What do you think of my post about Hal? What do you think about my post on Spoonsy?

For what it's worth, I no longer have such a strong town read on taste. I do not agree that Hal is playing scummy today, and taste's only point seems to be that the claim is "convenient" without analyzing why the hell scum would stick their neck out with a Track fakeclaim on DBD.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
Please keep in mind when your gut reaction tells you my scum messenger gambit theory is too obvious: When the Spoonsy messenger gambit came, the scum team had no idea that JX was going to die n1 and blow the whole thing up.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
Thank you everyone for the baby well wishes. As a privacy attorney, I would be pretty stupid to post pictures on a public forum, but I will say that mama and baby are doing great!

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




I think I may have an idea on who is submitting names to the NK masonry. The dead. I just notice that while there are pure observers of this game with spoiler roles on Discord, none of the dead seem to. So maybe the dead still have an active game roll. If it is submitting names to the NK masonry, it explains why a way would have to exist for a living player to submit the name D1 only.

D1: DGK submits merk
D2: 1 town 1 scum submits yuming and taste. yuming dies. I presume that yuming was submitted by scum and taste was submitted by town.
D3: majority town dead (1 scum, 1 3P, 3 town iirc) only submits one name: taste

I think town dead may know something we don't, and it implicates taste is scum.

##vote taste again

Spoonsy
Dec 6, 2005

Yeah, life is hilariously cruel.
Grimey Drawer

Sub Rosa posted:

I think I may have an idea on who is submitting names to the NK masonry. The dead. I just notice that while there are pure observers of this game with spoiler roles on Discord, none of the dead seem to. So maybe the dead still have an active game roll. If it is submitting names to the NK masonry, it explains why a way would have to exist for a living player to submit the name D1 only.

D1: DGK submits merk
D2: 1 town 1 scum submits yuming and taste. yuming dies. I presume that yuming was submitted by scum and taste was submitted by town.
D3: majority town dead (1 scum, 1 3P, 3 town iirc) only submits one name: taste

I think town dead may know something we don't, and it implicates taste is scum.

##vote taste again


There's also a chance they're just not configured that way... I was lazy and didn't put the dead into people's confessionals in Cuomo.

Also hi good morning. I'm keeping my vote on Hal

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




As for current cases and people with votes, I have pretty consistently had a town read on hambeet, and while I've leaned scum on both hal and merk, their posting this game day hasn't seemed scummy to me. I also think Spoonsy has played really close to the last Harry Potter game where Spoonsy was town. So which of the four is lying I can't tell at this moment. I still have doubts about DBD but every time I've pressed him the result felt genuine town to me. Solus picking hambeet to recruit made me feel better about Solus. Sandwolf is so town to me that Amni voting him makes me think I should reread Amni.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
If Spoonsy flips scum, taste's weird interactions with Spoonsy (saying he doesn't believe the claim over and over again but never really trying to get Spoonsy eliminated) and attack of Hal are probably where I'll go next.

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

merk posted:

Point 1: Hal's claim matches his play:



D1 Hal:



N1 Hal: Investigates Sandwolf who cannot kill.

D2 Hal:


N3 Hal: Tracks DBD to nowhere.
D3 Hal:


On Sandwolf: I do not believe scum would setup a JOAT gunsmith claim like this so early.
On DBD: I do not believe scum would stick their neck out and counterclaim someone to create a thunderdome when there is zero heat whatsoever on Hal besides an Ecco Cop from a player no one trusts already.


Hal attacks another JOAT claim, a reasonable thing for a Town JOAT to do.

I think of the 3, it's Merk. This is the first case-like post he's made and it's not to case someone it's not even to call them town, it's to say their claim is probably true.

##vote Merk

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




So on rereading Amni, Amni does still seem town to me. Don't agree with reads on Sandwolf, but they don't seem like scummy reads?

Amnistar posted:

That was more to explain that I have no control over specific items, I have a list of unidentified items I can either give out or identify, and then give out.

I realized I'm not clear on what items have been put in play or what they do.

N1 Amni gives Solus an unidentified locked glass box
N2 Solus uses the locked glass box, targeting Spoonsy. Amni gives Spoonsy a record player.
N3 Amni gives merk something that will delay merk's flip for a day and become a stump. That means merk can post forever? WTF Amni, first you join after joke phase so I can't joke vote you for Mods Collide, and now this!?
D4 Amni says the next item has a puzzle attached and has said will give to DBD.

Amnistar posted:

The one I made last night requires the user to successfully complete a challenge to use it!

And no, I have no idea what that means.

Prior to that, none of them had any failure rates associaated with their use. Though I gave Solus their present without analysing it, so theoretically it could have had a fialure rate.

How can Solus's glass box be the only one you didn't analyze if you have given an item every night? Wouldn't that mean you haven't had time to analyze any of them? But you make it sound like you do know what the record player and the one you gave merk do.

Spoonsy thought that it was one of the items that caused the rollblock, but we have had one and only one rollblock reported every night, so the items may have nothing to do with the rollblock. So I have no idea what the glass box does, or what the record player does beyond Pet Sounds flavor.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
Votecount for Day 4

Hal Incandenza (4): Deadbeat Dad, t a s t e, Deadbeat Dad, SolusLunes, Spoonsy, Deadbeat Dad, Deadbeat Dad, hambeet
Spoonsy (2): Sandwolf, merk
Deadbeat Dad (2): Hal Incandenza, merk, Sub Rosa, NevergirlsOFFICIAL, Sub Rosa, merk
Sandwolf (1): Amnistar
merk (1): DGK2000
t a s t e (1): Sub Rosa, Amnistar, NevergirlsOFFICIAL, Amnistar, Sub Rosa, NevergirlsOFFICIAL, Sub Rosa
DGK2000 (0): SolusLunes, SolusLunes
SolusLunes (0): DGK2000, DGK2000

Not Voting (1): Deadbeat Dad

With 12 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is July 17th, 2020 at 8 p.m. CDT -- that's in about 9 hours, 37 minutes.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

hambeet posted:

oh lol look. merk is defending hal again.

##vote hal

would vote merk too.

merk actually going back and looking at my play how it matched up with my claim and being one of the only ones to do so makes me think he's more likely town. Why bother trying to do that instead of hopping on the easy push on me?

I mean I know you think we are both scum, but fmpov I am much less suspicious of merk now

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

taste being kind of obtuse and NOT doing what merk did and just making it out like I dropped this super convenient claim in response to what was not very damning evidence against me and claiming I suddenly got more active which isn't true (I am still not very active) is now pinging me.

If spoonsy IS telling the truth a regular cop on top of an (admittedly one-shot) ecco cop and a gunsmith seems less likely

Really though just how fast taste just decided I made up that claim seems fake to me. Taste has played with me as much as anyone has, that's not the sort of thing I would even do as scum in that spot

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
I agree on taste.

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

hambeet posted:

hey dgk i've just remembered something. have your thoughts changed on duplicating roles?

They have evolved, yes.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Merk finally makes a comprehensive case and it’s to clear someone rather than hunt scum, Hal somehow sees this as proof of his towniness, and sub Rosa is claiming dead players are convening to call me scum. Sheesh

At least some players can actually read

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Every post Hal makes leads me to be more confident in my read. I guarantee he’s scum

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

hambeet posted:

yes you did.

i guess that's why you voted them... oh

but you did push them hard.... oh no. not really.



Yeah but I feel better about doing NGO


that's it.

you mention them a few times, but it doesn't really seem like you want to do anything about it at that time either. you do ask merk if he'd vote spoonsy as we were close to deadline yesterday, but this is the closest you get to actually pushing for it. i'd describe that as relatively cool in light of someone claiming the same role as you.
[/quote]

So to be fair, JOATs with different abilities on the same team is more plausible than two town cops or that sort of thing so him being a town JOAT isn’t completely out of the realm of possibility, but his posting is still pretty scummy. NGOs was worse in my mind yesterday and that’s more damning that a second JOAT claim to me

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

t a s t e posted:

Every post Hal makes leads me to be more confident in my read. I guarantee he’s scum

Am I lying about my role or do you just think I’m the scum JOAT?

Explain ending D1 voting Sandwolf and intentionally saying I no longer suspect Sandwolf at the start of D2 as anything other than a breadcrumb of my result

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Taste/DBD/beet perhaps?

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merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Hal Incandenza posted:

Am I lying about my role or do you just think I’m the scum JOAT?

Explain ending D1 voting Sandwolf and intentionally saying I no longer suspect Sandwolf at the start of D2 as anything other than a breadcrumb of my result

A scum joat with a gunsmith in a game with a masonry of killers and an arsonist isn’t that far fetched though.

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