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Epsilon Plus posted:anyways andy is also very clear that anyone who shoots cheese will immediately die because cheese is integral to ~the plan~ and I really don't like how that feels or sounds The plan requires people who've proved they're vigs to be left alive under the working assumption that only town has vigs. If you or anyone else don't get it I will be happy to explain it, because it's actually sort of important that I'm not the only person who understands what I'm talking about when at any moment I can get shot down?
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Jul 18, 2020 05:56
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just to clarify, this is still the plan and I'm not missing any important addendums, right?CapnAndy posted:I had this thought too. Here's the thing, though: If it's true, the game is winnable today. because this hinges entirely on town having all the vigs and scum having none of them. you're assuming that any town who has a dayvig is going to claim it, but not only is it possible for town to not have a dayvig (and look, yuming says they don't have a dayvig), I think you're glossing over the idea that any town who doesn't have a dayvig may not want to out themselves as not having a dayvig because they have Some Other Role. likewise, town who have Some Other Role may want to claim to have a dayvig so that scum don't go after them in the night hoping to nail a town power role. I think you're pushing for town to rack up a really impressive bodycount D1 in the hopes that your plan works out, but if there's any complicating wrinkle to it things are going to get somewhere between Bad and Awful come D2. if you think there's some pertinent point from your plan I'm missing I'd like to hear it, but unless the scum team has an unprecedented triple nightkill or something the risk/reward ratio feels way off
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Jul 18, 2020 06:04
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oh real quick mafia edit since I forgot to finish my thought:Epsilon Plus posted:dumb* * JOHN CENA your game is not dumb and I'm having fun thinking about it ilusm
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Jul 18, 2020 06:05
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Epsilon Plus posted:just to clarify, this is still the plan and I'm not missing any important addendums, right? quote:you're assuming that any town who has a dayvig is going to claim it, quote:but not only is it possible for town to not have a dayvig (and look, yuming says they don't have a dayvig), quote:I think you're glossing over the idea that any town who doesn't have a dayvig may not want to out themselves as not having a dayvig because they have Some Other Role. likewise, town who have Some Other Role may want to claim to have a dayvig so that scum don't go after them in the night hoping to nail a town power role. Scum can't kill us all N1. quote:I think you're pushing for town to rack up a really impressive bodycount D1 in the hopes that your plan works out, but if there's any complicating wrinkle to it things are going to get somewhere between Bad and Awful come D2. if you think there's some pertinent point from your plan I'm missing I'd like to hear it, but unless the scum team has an unprecedented triple nightkill or something the risk/reward ratio feels way off
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Jul 18, 2020 06:16
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CapnAndy posted:This seems implausible why? How many people have not claimed a dayvig? No, seriously, I'm not keeping count, but it seems like a lot of people already have. The way I've read it, literally everyone in the game other than yuming (and maybe Dead Cow, who's sidestepped the topic) is somewhere on the spectrum of implying to demonstrating that they have a dayvig
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Jul 18, 2020 06:26
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Also deadline is tonight now, so we need to decide if we're doing Plan Careful Killing or Plan Massacre or Plan Let's Actually Try To Play Mafia.
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Jul 18, 2020 07:10
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My preference is plan actually trying to play mafia, but we've got a lot of inertia right now. I want to hear some takes on anything beyond the idea of pistols at dawn from like Opop, Hal, and Spoonsy
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Jul 18, 2020 08:16
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I'm pretty in favor of Plan Actually Play Mafia, The Game We Signed Up To Play, Where We Make Cases - Albeit Tenuous For Day One, Please Don't Bitch About Day One - And Make Decisions Based On Those Cases. hopefully we can staple on Plan Endlessly Masturbate About Setup Speculation though that's my favorite
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Jul 18, 2020 09:37
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Power of Pecota posted:From your perspective, either all scum have dayvigs or all scum are bluffing about having them. Which way are you leaning? I am trying to puzzle out how I fit into this setup currently 
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Jul 18, 2020 15:56
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CapnAndy posted:...who are you agreeing with, exactly? That doesn't seem to be a prevailing opinion to me right now. When cheese first set the gotcha I was on the fence about the play, but after he justified it more he has been come across differently from the last game I played with him. I also recently had a dayvig as scum and found it really hard to fake content around. Based on that experience, coming up with an early excuse to shoot is something I view as easier for scum. The other option is to save for a loooong time and try and win a day early but that means you have to survive til then. Also, if all scum have daykill and know they do they can predict town must have something equally wacky OP so there is incentive to just fire your shots ASAP since they won’t hit scum.
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Jul 18, 2020 16:02
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Epsilon Plus posted:anyways andy is also very clear that anyone who shoots cheese will immediately die because cheese is integral to ~the plan~ and I really don't like how that feels or sounds The called retaliation shot if cheese is scum just balances his flip with another townie.
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Jul 18, 2020 16:06
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Which means I am suspicious of Andy for being so militant about his plan. Most players I have a neutral which defaults to town read on for me atm. Dead Cow, do you have a dayvig?
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Jul 18, 2020 16:10
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Massacre and then play Mafia with whatever is left. As far as killing goes I would like Andy and Yuming to be dead today; the former because he's been doing most of the planning and heavy lifting, and if he's town the plans can continue without him but if he's scum then I'd rather nip it in the bud, and the latter since she seems to be the only player claiming to not have a vig
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Jul 18, 2020 16:58
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What if we no-voted today and just saw some flips? Two deaths is quite enough unless we're doing any of the shooting plans.
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Jul 18, 2020 17:42
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I don't want to see Andy gushed or executed today under any circumstances - I have a really hard time seeing scum making a flavor counterclaim right out of the gate like he did with cheese sandwichCapnAndy posted:I don't know why the gently caress you'd lie about your literal flavor, but I'm an apple gusher, so doubly what the gently caress, cheese. and I like how active he's been in planning - I think the winning move for scum in a game with this many dayvigs floating around is to stay low profile, keep your head down, and let everyone else kill each other while doing the minimum to put yourself on anyone's list of who they'd want to gush. (ie, exactly how Dead Cow's been playing)
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Jul 18, 2020 17:43
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CapnAndy posted:What if we no-voted today and just saw some flips? Two deaths is quite enough unless we're doing any of the shooting plans. I'd be really surprised if nobody gushed last minute or in the lead-up to the deadline regardless of what thread consensus is - Spoonsy's already said he was planning on it and Steak said as much too before he got gushed. Even if we don't reach a majority, I also want people to have their opinions on record, so far SEVEN people haven't voted yet in this game - I thought there might have been a votefinder reset after the Humalong gush but no, that's for the entire day
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Jul 18, 2020 17:51
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I do not have a dayvig
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Jul 18, 2020 18:01
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CapnAndy posted:What if we no-voted today and just saw some flips? Two deaths is quite enough unless we're doing any of the shooting plans. I’m ok with this plan too. I’m worried that with all the vigs plus votes, which tend to not have a great track record of hitting scum on day one, we are going to lose a lot of town very quickly.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:21
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Retro Futurist posted:Massacre and then play Mafia with whatever is left. I am just going to go ahead and claim that I am vanilla town. Which is apparently an odd role in this setup and I don’t see how it counter balances all the kills.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:25
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yuming posted:Hello! Dead Cow posted:I do not have a dayvig yuming posted:I am just going to go ahead and claim that I am vanilla town. Which is apparently an odd role in this setup and I don’t see how it counter balances all the kills. I’m really struggling with these posts because the idea of vanilla town with no vig seems pretty fundamentally inconsistent with most of the roles that people claimed or soft-claimed.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:29
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Votecount for Day 1  cheese sandwich (2): CapnAndy, Epsilon Plus, Dead Cow (1): Power of Pecota tpink (0): Power of Pecota, Not Voting (8): CapnAndy, cheese sandwich, Dead Cow, Hal Incandenza, Mr. Humalong, Retro Futurist, Spoonsy, tpinkWith 11 alive, it's 6 votes to execute. The current deadline is July 18th, 2020 at 8:04 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 6 hours, 30 minutes. 
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Jul 18, 2020 18:33
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tpink posted:I’m really struggling with these posts because the idea of vanilla town with no vig seems pretty fundamentally inconsistent with most of the roles that people claimed or soft-claimed. Like great if everyone kills each other and I’m alive town wins but why would people trust me?
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Jul 18, 2020 18:39
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cheese sandwich posted:##gush sandnavyguy Mr. Steak posted:wait, is this a real day action or a joke......? Mr. Steak posted:ok, i dont want this discussion to absolutely clog the thread, so i've made a decision. this is important, so please pay attention. Hey Steak, can you explain why you say that you have the same dayvig as cheese but seemed confused by what it does when cheese did it? New theory: cheese scum, steak scum also, and is trying to protect his scumbro by promising to shoot him before the end of the day which for some reason will end up not happening. ##vote Steak for now because I’m really having trouble reconciling his posts about having a day vig and his reaction to cheese using his.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:41
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Steak is dead tho
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Jul 18, 2020 18:44
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tpink posted:I’m really struggling with these posts because the idea of vanilla town with no vig seems pretty fundamentally inconsistent with most of the roles that people claimed or soft-claimed. Vote DC with me! yuming claimed hers as soon as she caught up with the game with nobody else at the time claiming to not to have a vig - presuming a lot of deaths because of how many dayvigs are floating around, I feel like it makes much more sense to bluff in that scenario, assume the game will end before you're called on to gush someone, and not make yourself stick out from the crowd as the one person without it. It reads as way more credible to me. DC claimed after practically everyone had vigs and even commented partway on it Dead Cow posted:I mean, I think the correct thing to do today is wait for the flip, see what information we get. However from just finishing up Sealab mafia, the idea of everyone shooting each other sounds like a good time a few posts after I specifically brought up this Power of Pecota posted:Going through the player list, I feel like almost everyone has either claimed/softclaimed/implied they had a dayvig in context (like, if Hal or Epsilon said they were town and didn't have a dayvig after the linked post, it would give me pause). DC didn't want to claim it then and didn't do so until yuming had already done so. DC was purposely holding it back to avoid attention, and this was with Andy's plan already out there on the previous page - if I saw that in DC's position, I'd want to say "No, this is fundamentally flawed, I'm town and don't have a vig so it's operating on false premises". DC did absolutely nothing against Andy's plan because they just wanted to see death (because they're scum)
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Jul 18, 2020 18:49
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lmao sorry I just realized I somehow skipped over an entire page of posts, phew.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:49
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*in a pro-town voice, after reading a plan that works on a fundamental assumption I know not to be true*Dead Cow posted:I like the everyone shoot everyone idea
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Jul 18, 2020 18:51
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I’m going to reread Dead Cow’s posts.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:51
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Dead Cow posted:I like the everyone shoot everyone idea Dead Cow posted:I didn’t mean we should no lunch, I meant that we shouldn’t just go shooting everyone all at once. I think we should see the flip, and what if sng was scum? ??
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Jul 18, 2020 18:53
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I liked the idea, I didn't like it as a day one. I like it better day 2, to see if who died has non vig roles too.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:00
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I think that a non-insignificant number of people who y'all are saying are softclaiming a vig do not actually have vigs. I think Everybody Has A Vig is a weird enough setup that it would have been mentioned by the mod, rather than us stumbling into it blindly.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:06
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Epsilon Plus posted:I think that a non-insignificant number of people who y'all are saying are softclaiming a vig do not actually have vigs. I think Everybody Has A Vig is a weird enough setup that it would have been mentioned by the mod, rather than us stumbling into it blindly. Naw, I can see it. It’s less fun if you know going in. I’m helping to build a black bear habitat today but I should have time to check in a little later
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Jul 18, 2020 19:08
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CapnAndy posted:
Literally in point one, being able to gush is equated with being confirmed town. The whole thing is predicated on "If [town having dayvigs and scum not]'s true, the game is winnable today." On that note, this post: CapnAndy posted:
was made three hours before this post: Dead Cow posted:I like the everyone shoot everyone idea
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Jul 18, 2020 19:08
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I also like the shoot everyone idea. I’m assuming rn that most if not all town are probably the vig holders so people that are able to get shots off should be able to confirm their roles & the longer we sit on it and analyze the more enthusiasm is going to drop off and let people second guess
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Jul 18, 2020 19:11
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Epsilon Plus posted:I think that a non-insignificant number of people who y'all are saying are softclaiming a vig do not actually have vigs. I think Everybody Has A Vig is a weird enough setup that it would have been mentioned by the mod, rather than us stumbling into it blindly. Who specifically? I've tried to give a pretty clear opportunity for people to say they don't have a dayvig and are town to say as much, and town shouldn't be lying in claims or softclaims. Also JOHN CENA posted:Gushers Mafia game for 13 players. Non-standard setup. Beware. No millers of any kind. Standard lurking rules in place.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:12
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If Dead Cow flips scum, do you think it's likely that yuming is scum? If yuming somehow got shot before deadline and flipped scum while Dead Cow lived, would you be even firmer on Dead Cow being scum?Power of Pecota posted:Even if we don't reach a majority, I also want people to have their opinions on record, so far SEVEN people haven't voted yet in this game - I thought there might have been a votefinder reset after the Humalong gush but no, that's for the entire day also yes this is irritating me, like it's been a weird game but a lovely voting record is better than no voting record
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Jul 18, 2020 19:15
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cheese sandwich posted:I also like the shoot everyone idea. I’m assuming rn that most if not all town are probably the vig holders so people that are able to get shots off should be able to confirm their roles & the longer we sit on it and analyze the more enthusiasm is going to drop off and let people second guess What do you think about my case on Dead Cow?
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Jul 18, 2020 19:15
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Epsilon Plus posted:If Dead Cow flips scum, do you think it's likely that yuming is scum? If yuming somehow got shot before deadline and flipped scum while Dead Cow lived, would you be even firmer on Dead Cow being scum? I don't want to set the former up as a strict "if A, then B" - what gives me pause more than both claiming no dayvig is this, which reads as potential light bussing to me where yuming might have wanted to get on record as calling DC scummy, but not to back it up with a vote or anything: yuming posted:Nothing else stands out like WOW especially since things have happened so fast. Dead Cows wait until flips comment is a bit out of sync with the thread but not in an inherently scummy way imo. if it's the latter, yes, but I'd be irritated that someone decided to gush yuming instead of DC. I can see a town yuming/scum DC, I can see a scum yuming/scum DC, but scum yuming/town DC doesn't make sense to me.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:21
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I'm meeting up with a good friend for the first time in person since COVID-19 became a thing in about half an hour - not sure if it'll be an all-day thing, but I'll try and check in periodically on my phone and be here for deadline if I'm back by then~
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Jul 18, 2020 19:24
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Power of Pecota posted:Who specifically? I've tried to give a pretty clear opportunity for people to say they don't have a dayvig and are town to say as much, and town shouldn't be lying in claims or softclaims. You said Hal softclaimed a vig and linked this post: Hal Incandenza posted:If all these vigs are 100% guaranteed to work (which is crazy) I sorta agree with the Andy idea, but I think only town having vigs seems sorta broken so that's a pretty big leap This really doesn't feel like a softclaim to me. We have like five hours to deadline, I think cheese is the scummiest so far but Dead Cow has some voting inconsistencies that have been pointed out that seem promising
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Jul 18, 2020 19:26
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