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Nebakenezzer posted:Similarly, it always irked me slightly that the Vorta are described as having no aesthetic sense, and I'm sure that's impossible for an intelligent being my dude have you been to nexusmods
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# ? Jul 13, 2020 20:40 |
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 11:58 |
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Yeah other weird pop-psychology stuff is how when they replaced Bareil's brain with a "positronic matrix", he had all his memories, but lost the "spark of life". That set up a weird dichotomy whereby organic beings had special spiritual properties which androids and the like couldn't have. I would assume it'd be the other way around, like he'd probably have huge memory loss or personality change but retain his "soul" There was a nice conundrum in the voyager episode where the doctor wanted his memory banks programmed with more knowledge of music but B'lanna wouldn't let him because deleting his brain would fundamentally change his person. Nebakenezzer posted:Similarly, it always irked me slightly that the Vorta are described as having no aesthetic sense, and I'm sure that's impossible for an intelligent being They're at least colorblind from aeons of genetic selection E: Like they dont have taste, but they like chewing food. So they probably got something on upstairs
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# ? Jul 13, 2020 20:45 |
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Maybe the vorta are just deep in depressive anhedonia.
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# ? Jul 13, 2020 21:39 |
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Nebakenezzer posted:Similarly, it always irked me slightly that the Vorta are described as having no aesthetic sense, and I'm sure that's impossible for an intelligent being Have you seen the clothes they wear? Or the makeup?
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# ? Jul 13, 2020 21:49 |
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spankmeister posted:Have you seen the clothes they wear? Or the makeup? Their clothes are perfect, they are multicolors that shift, that's perfect for agents and diplomats McSpanky posted:my dude have you been to nexusmods No, and now I'm slightly worried what that is
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# ? Jul 13, 2020 21:56 |
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Tulip posted:Maybe the vorta are just deep in depressive anhedonia. gently caress, same.
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 00:52 |
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It's really interesting how Garak is one of the recurring lizard-brain Cardassians and a ruthless, amoral spymaster, but almost all of his episodes and main arcs are specifically about his emotional vulnerability. Feels like it brings home the theme that Cardassians are people like anyone else, and their society doesn't value the care a person needs to function properly, while ironically the Federation and Bajoran crew are the ones who care about Garak's wellbeing and intervene when he's having a breakdown. what's especially interesting is this is exactly a weakness because he gets used and then discarded by the federation also. like viewed on its own, his storyline is not especially gratifying
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 02:55 |
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in camp 371 he calls out sentiment as a weakness and though the show is like, implying that he's wrong (obviously), the show itself fails to make it an incorrect assessment from his point of view, particularly from that point forward
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 03:01 |
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I think the point is more his failure to establish connections and emotional stability is what makes it a weakness from his POV. And I think it might be Vorta more simply aren't taught/programmed anything about aesthetic sense at all, and having very weak senses just compounds that. It comes to mind that it actually makes perfect sense that Weyoun takes to Dabo- gambling is the only vice he's capable of enjoying.
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 04:56 |
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I always got the impression that the Vorta we see in the show are very, very different from the race they were before the Founders got their hands on them. Assuming such a race even existed and they weren't just created from scratch.
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 05:01 |
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Polaron posted:I always got the impression that the Vorta we see in the show are very, very different from the race they were before the Founders got their hands on them. Assuming such a race even existed and they weren't just created from scratch. They outright state as much, the Vorta were barely-sentient arboreal primates uplifted with Dominion genetic engineering into their current state.
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 05:52 |
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Polaron posted:I always got the impression that the Vorta we see in the show are very, very different from the race they were before the Founders got their hands on them. Assuming such a race even existed and they weren't just created from scratch. In the episode where weyoun 5(?) defects he explains the origin story of the Vorta, they were created from monkeys.
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 09:25 |
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I think the point is more his failure to establish connections and emotional stability is what makes it a weakness from his POV. I just think there was a huge divide between what the show thought it was doing, and often what it was doing for example, cardassia flips at the last moment to be on the "right side" and clearly that was the wrong move since the federation sure as hell wasn't going to orbitally bombard cardassia prime like the dominion did? and the war was a done deal anyway. so "punish the cardassians" was definitely a box they decided they needed to check, but it ends up being a punishment for a rare decision to do the right thing. it's loving weird.
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 09:37 |
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The origins of the Vorta as stated in Treachery, Faith, and The Great River are presented as both fact and myth. https://youtube.com/watch?v=I1BUsZ7BSC8 The Founders have the technological capability for such genetic manipulation, but the story itself doesn’t really hold up to and is more likely to be the sort of thing you’d tell a subordinate to keep them in-and loving-their place.
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 14:54 |
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It's a tricky thing, since by implication it doesn't seem out of character for the Founders to 'reward' a species that showed them immediate kindness in a way that makes sure their species survives as long as the Dominion does, and by making them useful- since the takeaway from that experience for the Founders may have been that the species is clearly tractable and social. Would go with how the alliance with the Breen goes much better to the point where they're given Cardassian worlds, and the Tosk is iirc outright stated in some EU materials to be basically a variant Jem'Hadar, or a species given similar traits (not needing food, great strength and inbuilt invisibility) to act as ideal game for a well-behaved subservient species. The Dominion has carrots and sticks, and it's clear they have a creative streak in their genetic engineering, given how horrifically sadistic the engineered plague was.
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 16:31 |
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ive always wondered how much of the dominion was actually developed by changelings versus their underlings. like did the changelings as a group develop their genetic engineering capabilities or was it a pre-vorta species they subjugated
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# ? Jul 15, 2020 00:21 |
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Every species in the Gamma Quandrant is just a changeling that forgot
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# ? Jul 15, 2020 03:27 |
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One EU book apparently had the Changelings be a result of their own genetic engineering, which I think would make sense. I still reckon that given their shapeshifting seems to have no upper limit, and Laas could do FTL travel on his own by imitating a space creature, that most Changelings who don't have the rigid outlook probably end up ascending to Q tier or above.
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# ? Jul 15, 2020 05:23 |
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changelings are space puritans too chickenshit to go Q
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# ? Jul 15, 2020 06:10 |
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amazed odo didn't go off his first changeling fuckbuddy when he was all "i lived as a rabbit for several lifetimes"
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# ? Jul 15, 2020 06:13 |
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I’m rewatching ds9 for the first time in years and I cannot overstate how much I love Avery Brooks’ Sisko. It’s like, what if Jack Torrence got just enough therapy and medication before going to the Overlook, so the fact that he is fated to be its caretaker only keeps him at a constant state of low level annoyance that occasionally spikes when something especially stupefying occurs.
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# ? Jul 22, 2020 07:39 |
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"Commander, you're saying you encountered a strange woman, can you describe her?" *In extremely Sisko voice* Sisko: She was wearing reeeeddd
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# ? Jul 22, 2020 07:50 |
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Anonymous Zebra posted:"Commander, you're saying you encountered a strange woman, can you describe her?" SISKO: All work and no jambalaya MAKES. BEN. GO. *slams hands on desk* CRAZY! OBRIEN: I’ll, erm, get to work on the command level replicators, sir.
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# ? Jul 22, 2020 08:03 |
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mysterious frankie posted:I’m rewatching ds9 for the first time in years and I cannot overstate how much I love Avery Brooks’ Sisko. It’s like, what if Jack Torrence got just enough therapy and medication before going to the Overlook, so the fact that he is fated to be its caretaker only keeps him at a constant state of low level annoyance that occasionally spikes when something especially stupefying occurs. Like the Shining saturday morning cartoon where everybody all lives together in the big haunted hotel and there's wacky new guests, ghosts and/or ghost guests every week
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# ? Jul 22, 2020 08:12 |
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Like the Shining saturday morning cartoon where everybody all lives together in the big haunted hotel and there's wacky new guests, ghosts and/or ghost guests every week If The Shining had come out a decade later Hannah Barbara would have has something airing on Saturday, and Danny would have had a cowardly talking hedge animal sidekick. I would associate the property with the cartoon more strongly than I do the source material.
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# ? Jul 22, 2020 18:08 |
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mysterious frankie posted:If The Shining had come out a decade later Hannah Barbara would have has something airing on Saturday, and Danny would have had a cowardly talking hedge animal sidekick. I would associate the property with the cartoon more strongly than I do the source material. Something something the Simpsons episode Actually a big wacky haunted hotel does sound like a pretty good premise for a show. Could be to The Shining what Gravity Falls was to Twin Peaks.
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# ? Jul 23, 2020 07:10 |
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I knew DS9 was going to be special during the pilot, where Brooks just delivers the hell out of "we can't just lEaVe her!!!" I was thinking to myself, "oh man, we get this guy for seven seasons?"
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 01:56 |
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PurplieNurplie posted:I knew DS9 was going to be special during the pilot, where Brooks just delivers the hell out of "we can't just lEaVe her!!!" I think I was about 12 when it started and a fan of tng since I was really little, and I ended up hating Sisko at first because he was mean to Picard. I really held a grudge for a while, because he was short with the man who ostensibly killed his wife. Each time I go back to the series as an adult I love Brooks’ performance a little more. He’s having ridiculous amounts of fun in the role and it’s infectious. mysterious frankie fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Jul 24, 2020 |
# ? Jul 24, 2020 02:59 |
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It's been too long since I properly watched DS9, but I remember thinking that Sisko was a great dad.
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 03:47 |
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PurplieNurplie posted:I knew DS9 was going to be special during the pilot, where Brooks just delivers the hell out of "we can't just lEaVe her!!!" His anguished scream after he says that still haunts my dreams.
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 06:46 |
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Woebin posted:It's been too long since I properly watched DS9, but I remember thinking that Sisko was a great dad. Sisko is the only good dad in Star Trek that I remember.
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 07:11 |
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Star trek was full of dads who wanted to kidnap their children to undergo some ridiculous ritual or keep them away from their mother for 16 years or to straight up kill them to hide their shame (looking at you, Dukat).
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 07:13 |
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Yes, Sisko is a good dad, and it was a very specific decision to have him portrayed as a good father in the show. There was a systemic problem (and there still is) of black father's being portrayed as being deadbeats or otherwise removed from their children's lives, leaving single moms to raise their children. The decision to portray Sisko as an attentive father who always found time to bond with his son was part of a lot of little things DS9 did in their portrayal of him that probably went over the heads of most white people watching the show. EDIT: Incidentally, this is why Avery Brookes was PISSSED when the finale of the series had him literally ghosting out on his pregnant wife, and why he made them add lines that implied his little spirit journey would not be that long in corporeal time. EDIT2: If you want to see a contemporary comparison to how black fathers can be portrayed poorly, go watch LOST and see how Micheal and WALT! are portrayed and where their stories end up. Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Jul 24, 2020 |
# ? Jul 24, 2020 08:53 |
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Reminded of Young Justice and criticism that came down to "Of all the plots they could have had for the black character, they went with 'my dad ran off to be a criminal'" Black Manta having a half-Atlantean kid is interesting, but still.
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 09:00 |
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Peachfart posted:Sisko is the only good dad in Star Trek that I remember. Rom's awkward and has his issues, but he was never a bad dad to Nog that I can recall? Sometimes was initially held back by his Ferengi background (like being skeptical of him attending Keiko's school) but always came through in the end.
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 09:40 |
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sisko is clearly the best but all of the ds9 fathers are fine. rom starts off a pretty lovely father because he starts off a pretty lovely character but by season 2 they figured out how to make him interesting and miles is fine if maybe a little short temper from constantly being tortured for 20 years or whatever happened this week edit: of the heroes. dukat and damar maybe leave something to be desired
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 09:47 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mALFi3cO_Co
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 09:51 |
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an ingenious solution
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 10:52 |
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Yes, Sisko is a good dad, and it was a very specific decision to have him portrayed as a good father in the show. There was a systemic problem (and there still is) of black father's being portrayed as being deadbeats or otherwise removed from their children's lives, leaving single moms to raise their children. The decision to portray Sisko as an attentive father who always found time to bond with his son was part of a lot of little things DS9 did in their portrayal of him that probably went over the heads of most white people watching the show. I'm not doing a great job expressing this, I think, but in short: thanks for making this point, it gives me another reason why DS9 is the best Trek.
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 13:14 |
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 11:58 |
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That it goes completely without saying is rather the point. Though especially effective given the show wasn't shy about portraying the African-American experience, especially in the time travel episodes. Also think about how Sisko has to listen to Dukat's ranting about Bajorans. And in Past Tense when black Sisko and brown Bashir are thrown into the Sanctuary District, while Jadzia, who passes as an attractive white woman with tattoos, gets picked up by a tech bro.
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 13:37 |