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by the way, i know people have praised the music a lot but how amazing is it that every single area by themselves actually have a soundtrack big enough to pretty much make its own game? the amount of single-scene tracks is absolutely ridiculous in this game
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Jul 24, 2020 21:33
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One thing that pops into my head is how they made unique songs for Sweetpaper Valley and and the mines that you'll only realistically hear for a few minutes tops before you get into the Yellow Streamer area. They hit a lot of variety with the music styles too. Each area has it's own distinct sound in all the music tracks. I also love how hard the guitar goes in on some of the fight themes. YoshiOfYellow fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 21:44
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my favorite track has to be the cafe music. it's so scenic!
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Jul 24, 2020 21:45
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Vookatos posted:Never thought I'd give a poo poo about Kamek or Bowser Jr. The fact that this game makes Bosses Jr charming is absolutely insane. It also hits the weird area of Bosses being *competent* while still being funny which is weird as hell.
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Jul 24, 2020 21:57
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ImpAtom posted:The fact that this game makes Bosses Jr charming is absolutely insane. Competent bosses,,, i'll believe it when i see it
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Jul 24, 2020 23:46
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MonsterEnvy posted:I wonder why. Back when they both had animated TV series they had a crossover. (Jafar turned up in the Underworld and him and Hades teamed up.) Did Jafar ever interact with Hercules? I remember hearing that Disney villains could interact with each other because "Disney Villains" is like a brand or something. So Jafar and Hades are okay to talk to each other, but Jafar wouldn't be able to talk to anyone else.
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Jul 25, 2020 00:30
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The villains routinely had spooky dark silhouette meetings in the first Kingdom Hearts game. But they weren't ever shown outside their own worlds usually. Minus like Maleficent because she's Queen Bitch and doesn't play by the rules.
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Jul 25, 2020 00:37
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N-N-N-NINE BREAKER posted:Competent bosses,,, i'll believe it when i see it That was ironically a typo and I meant "Bowser."
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Jul 25, 2020 01:04
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Amppelix posted:I mean, I think the game might be a bit better if they could have more unique designs, but honestly i do not care, it doesn't hold origami king back at all. What is the deal with this? They're not allowed to have a Bob-omb with a mustache?
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Jul 25, 2020 02:35
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Phenotype posted:What is the deal with this? They're not allowed to have a Bob-omb with a mustache? Sometime after TTYD & Super Paper Mario Nintendo cracked down really hard on the IP usage of Mario stuff. Since the Paper Mario series is done by Intelligent Studios as an external thing it means they are tied back pretty significantly on what they can do design wise. This is why I always kind of roll my eyes at the people that make the argument of "but they made all these cool unique designs in Super Mario Odyssey!!!". Yeah, cause that was an internally developed first party game. EDIT: Intellectual Property is a really bizarre legal realm. If you're too loose with it you end up with situations like Ken Penders getting the rights to Echidna OCs out of a lawsuit he filed on Sega. YoshiOfYellow fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 03:29
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YoshiOfYellow posted:Sometime after TTYD & Super Paper Mario Nintendo cracked down really hard on the IP usage of Mario stuff. Since the Paper Mario series is done by Intelligent Studios as an external thing it means they are tied back pretty significantly on what they can do design wise. This is why I always kind of roll my eyes at the people that make the argument of "but they made all these cool unique designs in Super Mario Odyssey!!!". Yeah, cause that was an internally developed first party game. AlphaDream was allowed to make a whole bunch of new characters though.
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Jul 25, 2020 03:31
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ImpAtom posted:AlphaDream was allowed to make a whole bunch of new characters though. Correct me if I'm wrong, since it's been awhile and there are a number of Mario & Luigi games I haven't played, but were any of the new characters of existing Mario species? I remember Superstar Saga took place in a completely different kingdom and I don't think you really saw any existing mainstays in the region. My memories are fuzzy with Partners in Time but I don't recall any non-generic looking Toads or Goombas or etc. Haven't played the other games. Nintendo's strictness seems to be mostly limiting their ability to make toads or goombas look too much like something besides an iconic toad or goomba.
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Jul 25, 2020 03:39
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YoshiOfYellow posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, since it's been awhile and there are a number of Mario & Luigi games I haven't played, but were any of the new characters of existing Mario species? I remember Superstar Saga took place in a completely different kingdom and I don't think you really saw any existing mainstays in the region. My memories are fuzzy with Partners in Time but I don't recall any non-generic looking Toads or Goombas or etc. Haven't played the other games. Nintendo's strictness seems to be mostly limiting their ability to make toads or goombas look too much like something besides an iconic toad or goomba. My understanding is that people are complaining about not having brand new creations, rather than just different Toads. This game has non-generic Toads (The Captain if nothing else who has a different design, plus Toads with various design gimmicks.) That said, M&L did have unique designs for classic enemies. Most of its enemy designs were variations on the classic designs with new looks. Snifit wearing a winter parka, Shy Guy with a cannon for a mouth, that kind of stuff.
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Jul 25, 2020 03:41
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Even the remake of Superstar kept some of the different enemy designs despite some other designs being changed to be more in line with the official designs. Though I think some of the changes there were more to correct some really off model stuff as original Superstar's spritework wasn't always the best. (Bowser's overworld sprite is really bad, and actually got changed in later versions of the game for one.)
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Jul 25, 2020 03:50
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ImpAtom posted:My understanding is that people are complaining about not having brand new creations, rather than just different Toads. This game has non-generic Toads (The Captain if nothing else who has a different design, plus Toads with various design gimmicks.) I don't think people are that annoyed by the game not having brand new creations or anything. There's no one angry about origami king not having an equivalent to X-nauts they're mad bobby isn't wearing a hat or something to make him a bit more distinct. Like, Origami King has a few characters with non-generic designs (especially Toads) but it was a bit more common in the first two games. I mean the first Paper Mario starts in goomba village and the family that live there all have unique designs and that's not really what you get with this game. I mean the characters in this one have just as much, if not more, personality than the older npcs but it definitely feels like either it's a creative choice to limit the unique designs or management told them to stick with mostly generics.
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Jul 25, 2020 04:00
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I don't think people are that annoyed by the game not having brand new creations or anything. There's no one angry about origami king not having an equivalent to X-nauts they're mad bobby isn't wearing a hat or something to make him a bit more distinct. Yeah most of the complaints I've seen are in this vein, which is a fair complaint since the older games were definitely more liberal with character designs. That said though I think Bobby specifically looking pretty generic actually works really well with his story and character arc. He's literally a generic bob-omb, one of a million others who live short lives and just hope their one explosion is one that makes a difference. That lack of a unique design actually resonates really well with that, especially when you later run into a platoon of bob-ombs that have a lot of the same mannerisms.
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Jul 25, 2020 04:07
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I remember an interview with AlphaDream about Dream Team that had them mentioning some disagreements between them and Nintendo. It came out around the same time as Sticker Star so the mandate may be one of the things they disagreed on. The only new Mario and Luigi that came out after that was Paper Jam and that actually had nothing that wouldn't also appear in mainline Mario if I remember right.
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Jul 25, 2020 04:15
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YoshiOfYellow posted:Yeah most of the complaints I've seen are in this vein, which is a fair complaint since the older games were definitely more liberal with character designs. That said though I think Bobby specifically looking pretty generic actually works really well with his story and character arc. He's literally a generic bob-omb, one of a million others who live short lives and just hope their one explosion is one that makes a difference. That lack of a unique design actually resonates really well with that, especially when you later run into a platoon of bob-ombs that have a lot of the same mannerisms. Even in the older Paper Mario games, it's established that unique Bob-ombs can explode all they want, but Bobby is a generic mass produced model. And those don't come back after exploding in those games either.
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Jul 25, 2020 04:15
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How are the later Mario & Luigi games anyways? I only ever played the first two. I remember very much enjoying Superstar Saga. Partners in Time a bit less so but it was still cool. Also I know it's far too early to be rating this game yet because I'm definitely still in the honeymoon phase but would it be outrageous to say that this easily ranks in the Top 3 of the series along with 64 and TTYD? I'd be hard pressed to actually give them a ranking order but man I'm still just over the moon with how much I've liked this title.
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Jul 25, 2020 04:54
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YoshiOfYellow posted:How are the later Mario & Luigi games anyways? I only ever played the first two. I remember very much enjoying Superstar Saga. Partners in Time a bit less so but it was still cool. Bowsers Inside Story is arguably the best, Dream Team is good but aggressively over-turorialized , Paper Jam is meeeeeeeh
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Jul 25, 2020 05:04
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YoshiOfYellow posted:One thing that pops into my head is how they made unique songs for [spoiler]Sweetpaper Valley and and the mines[spoiler] that you'll only realistically hear for a few minutes tops before you get into the Yellow Streamer area. I'm in the yellow streamer area now, and this stages music is just so god drat good. I am consistently impressed with this game!
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Jul 25, 2020 06:07
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Al-Saqr posted:
I finished that area days ago and that city song is still stuck in my head. It's soooo good.
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Jul 25, 2020 06:53
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Justin_Brett posted:I remember an interview with AlphaDream about Dream Team that had them mentioning some disagreements between them and Nintendo. It came out around the same time as Sticker Star so the mandate may be one of the things they disagreed on. The only new Mario and Luigi that came out after that was Paper Jam and that actually had nothing that wouldn't also appear in mainline Mario if I remember right. the director of OK said in an interview that since Sticker Star they “couldn’t” modify existing designs in the Mario universe anymore, if they make an original character they have to be a completely separate thing, like with Olivia and Oliver. It’s definitely something Nintendo has imposed on them and it really seems like they’ve been straining against Nintendo’s various restrictions trying to make the kind of games they want to make.
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Jul 25, 2020 07:07
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Honestly I'm surprised they got away with the little trio of NPCs you meet at the start of Shogun Studios.
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Jul 25, 2020 07:13
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Augus posted:it really seems like they’ve been straining against Nintendo’s various restrictions trying to make the kind of games they want to make. I honestly haven't gotten that kind of impression from this game. Like, Sticker Star definitely falls under a very restrained and safe project, but this game gets very wild and there's a lot of little effort put into various places. I'm not sure how much the character design restriction really factored in for IntSys. It might've been something they just went along with without too much of a second though, and it's probably something that's not a big factor to the devs as it is to the fans.
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Jul 25, 2020 07:32
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Al-Saqr posted:
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Jul 25, 2020 07:55
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Electric Phantasm posted:Did Jafar ever interact with Hercules? I remember hearing that Disney villains could interact with each other because "Disney Villains" is like a brand or something. Yes Jafar went to Athens fought Hercules and then Agrabah to create illusions to make the two heroes meet up and fight one another. Then the two realized the truth teamed up and killed Jafar again. Edit: I watched the episode and Hercules kills Jafar super hard at the start of the episode when they first meet. Deliberately crushing him with a giant statue head. And sending him back to Hades for a redo. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 08:05
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Amppelix posted:i want to go for 100% but i'm being stopped before i even get going by the knowledge that getting a perfect game of shy guys finish last is one of the trophies lol that's not nearly as hard as getting all the coins on Eddy River honestly I don't think SGFL is all that challenging, maybe I got lucky but I think I played each game once, but the random selector gave me the 50 point level for Math Bath, the Race one and the ring scramble and I got the former two fairly easily so I cleared it rather quickly (although I definitely had some heart palpitations before the Sudden Death round.
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Jul 25, 2020 08:49
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Race one is the easiest of the bunch no matter which level it's at. Level 3 Ring Scramble basically boils down to turning the rings rightside up, and then sliding the 2 rows out of place back into position. Level 3 Ninji Scramble isn't too bad when you realize you should keep track of the 2 non-Ninji boxes instead. You're just gonna have to be good at mental counting for Bath Math. The rest should be easy from there.
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Jul 25, 2020 08:57
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Holy poo poo the ending of Green Streamer has some literal horror poo poo. Like, get rid of a few funny animations and wacky battle theme and those cutout soldiers would be straight-up TERRIFYING
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Jul 25, 2020 09:28
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This may be weird, but I think the whole character design thing is pretty much what I miss the most. It's the one thing that's straight-up worse, and the developers seem to be unable to go back for whatever reason. And it's not just generic toads... - The majority of NPCs is not allowed to have names - No little background stories (Tattle, etc.), just a one-off gag and away they go - No Paper Mario re-designs: Pokeys now have the "current" look, so do Koopas, they even changed Yoshis... And I LIKED those alternative takes / Yoshi Island designs - PM original characters are memory-holed (Kammy Koopa...) Obviously, you're gonna stick with generic designs if you scatter hundreds of toads in the landscape as hidden collectibles. But beyond that, it just straight up hurts the game if it denies character to most NPCs, and even those who go further rarely have actual names. Even early in Sticker Star, it feels like some iron-clad restrictions are imposed on them, and the developers try to give their forced-to-be-generic NPCs as much character as they can: look at that! This toad has a bend in their paper! This one is a little creased! Please free us I can see why Nintendo would impose such restrictions in general, but it genuinely hurts the Paper Mario series, and it's absolutely baffling why you'd do that to a series with Tattle
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Jul 25, 2020 09:44
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Torquemadras posted:This may be weird, but I think the whole character design thing is pretty much what I miss the most. It's the one thing that's straight-up worse, and the developers seem to be unable to go back for whatever reason. And it's not just generic toads... Each thing in the museum has a blurb which is basically the same as Tattle
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Jul 25, 2020 10:27
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Araxxor posted:Race one is the easiest of the bunch no matter which level it's at. I whipped out my phone to record the Ninji scramble. Much easier to follow when I can scrub back and forth in the video.
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Jul 25, 2020 11:33
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Torquemadras posted:Obviously, you're gonna stick with generic designs if you scatter hundreds of toads in the landscape as hidden collectibles. But beyond that, it just straight up hurts the game if it denies character to most NPCs, and even those who go further rarely have actual names. Even early in Sticker Star, it feels like some iron-clad restrictions are imposed on them, and the developers try to give their forced-to-be-generic NPCs as much character as they can: look at that! This toad has a bend in their paper! This one is a little creased! Please free us Toadette is like the Smurfette of Toads now because they otherwise want you to disregard the notion of a grandma Toad, or like... a waitress Toad—they just don't want to deal with it, they think it's off-brand... whatever It's probably redtape city to get new characters through the pipeline. But they've also tried for continuity between these games. Kamek's got his own lil theme song I think in the eyes of Nintendo, Paper Mario is about looking and sounding awesome. I always remember PM64 as the best looking N64 game. Color Splash was the best looking Wii U game. They're just rollin' with it They should just remaster the originals at this point, that would be cashmoney
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Jul 25, 2020 15:14
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I don't remember where it was but somewhere an official nintendo source said that the (current) canon is that toads don't have gender and toadette just happens to the only one who presents in an obviously feminine way and uses the appropriate pronouns. so you're free to think of any of the toads not explicitly referred to by pronouns in this game as "female"
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Jul 25, 2020 15:38
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It was mostly just a cute response in an interview—they scrubbed the whole universe of gender aside from humans, it's basically meaningless. They just don't want Koopa Troopas marrying each other n poo poo. These are monsters these are humans, das all you need to know
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Jul 25, 2020 16:16
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I'm working on the Green Streamer area and I am extremely impressed with this game so far. It is very different from Thousand-Year Door but I'm seeing that mostly manifest as a positive. The Nintendo restriction on character design has inspired a huge deal of excellently written and characterized toads. Without getting into too much detail, Origami King even does several things better than TTYD in my opinion: -Much less backtracking. The world is better connected in general. Each area is densely packed with detail and things to explore, giving the world more of a 3-dimensional feel. -Boss battles in OK are insanely good. Probably the most dynamic and interesting battle style of any Mario RPG game. I also really enjoy the Paper Macho fights. -Well-polished and balanced quality of life items, like the toad tracker and hidden block finder, make OK way less of a grind if you're looking for everything. The general enemy battle system is good IMO. The ring puzzles are challenging, and if they're not the fight is over in 10 seconds. I do often waste way too many coins on extra time because I just want to figure a puzzle out. It's easy to dump 1000 coins for the sake of solving it when I should really just kill the enemies or use the cheer command. Baba is You was my favorite game last year and this scratches some of that itch.
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Jul 25, 2020 18:26
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Yep, the world feels good and the environments and music are both fantastic, which is a big draw for me in this kind of JRPG/adventure game adjacent sort of thing where a big part of the appeal is just seeing the next area. The one thing I'm missing so far (I'm in the blue streamer area) is the lack of real defined characters besides your companions. Not even talking about the character design, but there's not like, the mayor of Toad Town, or someone in charge of that tower at the end of Red Streamer chapter. It's just a bunch of toads who are funny, and some of them have a distinct role, but none have more than one or two lines.
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Jul 25, 2020 20:17
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that's true, i was also missing some slightly more substantial npc characters. i'm pretty sure literally no one in toad town ever updates their dialogue, for example. makes its position as a hub town feel completely superficial. why would i come back and explore it again when there's never anything to discover besides, like, two more toads in their houses who have one line each. luckily this doesn't really take away from the game because there's always some new cool thing you're running into every five minutes anyway, but it does make all the effort put into toad town mostly wasted.
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Jul 25, 2020 20:37
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post-yellow streamer I liked the desert better without any sun 
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Jul 26, 2020 01:11
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