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I mean, this has got to be performance art, right? No 10nm process, no 7nm process, and they're still claiming they might still be on track for 5nm in 2023?
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Jul 23, 2020 22:32
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SwissArmyDruid posted:AMD had better make hay, Intel just announced that 7nm would be delayed. TSMCs "5nm" is still on schedule as far as I've heard, so AMD is likely going to only lose the outright process lead in laptops for about a year, and in servers for like 6 months (Intel says 10nm Ice Lake servers are still on track for this year), and not give up the process lead for desktops... at all. (Intels 10nm and TSMCs 7nm are broadly similar in density, yes I know its not exact and depends on the product ok relax) Cygni fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 22:39
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Maybe Intel doesn't want the desktop market anymore and is going the way of IBM when it comes to residential consumers. If any of this is true the Intel stock should come down a lot by 2022 and I can cash in on their comeback in 2025.
Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 22:50
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So what you're saying is that Intel is going to sell its laptop division to China and then its fabs to SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 23:58
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"Nobody got fired for buying E: their investors just think they're complete loving clowns for losing Apple and letting 10nm slip AGAIN within weeks.
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Jul 24, 2020 02:03
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I mean, this has got to be performance art, right? No 10nm process, no 7nm process, and they're still claiming they might still be on track for 5nm in 2023? theoretically the processes are independent but it's clear that intel's fab engineering is totally broken
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Jul 24, 2020 02:30
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Boeing: Our engineering capabilities could not be any worse! Intel: Hold our beer!
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Jul 24, 2020 02:59
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SwissArmyDruid posted:AMD had better make hay, Intel just announced that 7nm would be delayed. If there is one delay, there is always a second delay. Like, how does Intel catch up now? They're not going to have node lead for 4 years at this point in the best case scenario, if 7nm continues to trip up on meeting targets they're going to experience what it was like being AMD during the Sandy-Broadwell years. Like yeah they could backport core design to current process node, but every time they do that they waste a poo poo ton of money and time doing so. Who was it that said uarch design was like playing Russian Roulette, except you pulled the trigger 4 years after loading the gun? Yeah, every time Intel has to backport because the process gets delayed, they load another bullet into the revolver.
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Jul 24, 2020 03:30
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EmpyreanFlux posted:If there is one delay, there is always a second delay. Like, how does Intel catch up now? They're not going to have node lead for 4 years at this point in the best case scenario, if 7nm continues to trip up on meeting targets they're going to experience what it was like being AMD during the Sandy-Broadwell years. Like yeah they could backport core design to current process node, but every time they do that they waste a poo poo ton of money and time doing so. They announced that they're moving Ponte Vecchio, their HPC GPU, to TSMC to avoid any delays so I'm sure they will be doing more of that going forward.
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Jul 24, 2020 03:56
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Do we have any further info on when the 4000 series comes out?
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Jul 24, 2020 04:53
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Kraftwerk posted:Do we have any further info on when the 4000 series comes out? Nope, they just said consumer-grade Zen3 chips will be this year. Could be a paper launch.
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Jul 24, 2020 06:07
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MaxxBot posted:They announced that they're moving Ponte Vecchio, their HPC GPU, to TSMC to avoid any delays so I'm sure they will be doing more of that going forward. GPU's maybe, but my impression is it's a big "lolfuckno" about moving their CPU designs to TSMC. I mean even if they wanted to, they'd have to be doing a CPU design targeting TSMC 3nmGAAFET because the time to port and design around TSMC 5nmEUV was...last year.
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Jul 24, 2020 07:49
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Cygni posted:(Intels 10nm and TSMCs 7nm are broadly similar in density, yes I know its not exact and depends on the product ok relax) EmpyreanFlux posted:GPU's maybe, Yeah some GPU's and chipsets will be made at TSMC. I'd be real surprised if it turned out they went to TSMC to make their top of the line CPU's. I could maybe see them doing it for stuff like Atom cores though. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 13:53
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Kraftwerk posted:Do we have any further info on when the 4000 series comes out?
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Jul 24, 2020 15:51
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Khorne posted:Would expect leaks in ~3 months. There have already been engineering samples spotted but with no benchmarks or performance numbers. I got my tomahawk ready to go I just want AMD to release this already so I can start building. Alternatively if the gaming performance benchmarks are nearly identical and all they can offer are productivity improvements then I can just buy a 3700 and be done with it.
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Jul 24, 2020 16:09
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Malcolm XML posted:theoretically the processes are independent but it's clear that intel's fab engineering is totally broken
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Jul 25, 2020 13:26
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Kraftwerk posted:I got my tomahawk ready to go I just want AMD to release this already so I can start building. You are gonna be waiting for quite a while yet. The only reason to wait right now is for next-gen GPUs. GPUs are almost always the FPS limiting factor outside strange setups like a 2080 Super on 1080p. Zen 3 will likely be significantly faster in gaming but the question you have to ask yourself is whether you will be in that niche setup where the performance of a Zen 3 8-core chip vs a Zen 2 8-core chip will actually matter. The usual caveat of don't buy poo poo unless you need to still apply though. So if in September when RTX 3XXX launches and ray tracing isn't a big thing for you AND your existing rig still plays what you want at an acceptable level, then don't buy. edit: Just to clarify why I think you will be waiting for a long time. AMD is going to service its business consumers first. We have no idea what the allocation at TSMC is like and how AMD will divy up its chips between the consumer, prosumer, and server markets. While Lisa has said consumer Zen 3 is coming out this year, tech companies frequently do paper launches where a product is released but in such limited numbers that it might as well not have been released unless you are willing to pay 2-3x MSRP from scalpers. MikeC fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 16:43
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:TSMC is going to enjoy becoming a monopoly soon because samsung has also been slipping in their EUV offerings lately So TSMC is going to sit on their lead like Intel and let everyone else take 10 years to catch up?
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Jul 25, 2020 16:56
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pixaal posted:So TSMC is going to sit on their lead like Intel and let everyone else take 10 years to catch up? It's not really that simple. Intel was trying to abandon tick-tock for good, they just wanted one 10nm process they could iterate into the sunset like they did with 14nm(plus plus plus plus plus) As a result they overengineered the poo poo out of it to try and head off the problems they had with 14nm in advance. This required absurd multi-exposures and ludicrously expensive and slow testing equipment and the yield was still garbage, is garbage and will always be garbage. TSMC meanwhile has just been tocking every two years with incremental improvements like intel did back in the day and hey presto whaddya know that poo poo actually works.
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Jul 25, 2020 17:16
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MikeC posted:You are gonna be waiting for quite a while yet. The only reason to wait right now is for next-gen GPUs. GPUs are almost always the FPS limiting factor outside strange setups like a 2080 Super on 1080p. Zen 3 will likely be significantly faster in gaming but the question you have to ask yourself is whether you will be in that niche setup where the performance of a Zen 3 8-core chip vs a Zen 2 8-core chip will actually matter. This is good advice. I might as well get my 3700 now.
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Jul 25, 2020 17:28
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Yeah I am holding out for the RTX 3070 (or whatever they call it) before I do my next build, and if Zen 3 is out by then it's gravy.
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Jul 25, 2020 17:35
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I saw a post about someone that's going to try to import something called "coreboot" into AMD CPUs. Anyone know what that's about? A quick google tells me it's supposed to be an open-source BIOS, but it's not really clear what the advantages of that would be except maybe that it's supposed to be faster and/or more secure?
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Jul 26, 2020 05:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:I saw a post about someone that's going to try to import something called "coreboot" into AMD CPUs. Anyone know what that's about? A quick google tells me it's supposed to be an open-source BIOS, but it's not really clear what the advantages of that would be except maybe that it's supposed to be faster and/or more secure? If you were part of the target market that alone would be enough for you. More helpfully, Anthony over on LTT just did a video on a laptop with coreboot, but tldw it's open source with all of the flexibility that brings.
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Jul 26, 2020 06:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:I saw a post about someone that's going to try to import something called "coreboot" into AMD CPUs. Anyone know what that's about? A quick google tells me it's supposed to be an open-source BIOS, but it's not really clear what the advantages of that would be except maybe that it's supposed to be faster and/or more secure? I've heard of coreboot before, but haven't been following the project very closely. Last time I looked at it there was pretty much no support for any "mainstream" platforms, so if someone is gonna try supporting AM4, that would be pretty neat. Do you have a link to this post? pedant mode: Not sure about "importing into a CPU", but maybe "porting to a chipset" (x570 ?) makes sense.
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Jul 26, 2020 06:09
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Coreboot rings a vague bell, but mostly talking about replacement BIOS makes me think of how bad some proprietary BIOS were/are. I had a socket 939 motherboard years ago that was Compaq or HP or some other manufacturer branded, but that with a little research I found was actually a stock MSI board with only cosmetic differences. Flashed the BIOS to the stock MSI BIOS and suddenly I had a vastly more competent machine, including the ability to overclock.
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Jul 26, 2020 06:10
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peepsalot posted:Do you have a link to this post? https://old.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/hx1nvn/jeremy_from_system76_working_on_porting_coreboot/ It's this. I guess my question is whether an open-source BIOS is going to allow things like overclocking where you shouldn't be able to, or allow for more CPU support on a single BIOS version (i.e. the AM4/B450 issue), or even that thing with Intel where only the Z490 chipset has fully unlocked memory speeds. Of course, I also expect that being able to circumvent such things would get pushback from the manufacturers themselves, so this is also largely hypothetical speculation on my part.
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Jul 26, 2020 06:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:I guess my question is whether an open-source BIOS is going to allow things like overclocking where you shouldn't be able to, or allow for more CPU support on a single BIOS version (i.e. the AM4/B450 issue), or even that thing with Intel where only the Z490 chipset has fully unlocked memory speeds. Motherboard vendors already take pride in making their overclocking options as good as possible, that's not what coreboot is for. Right now, it's mostly useful for journalists, activists, whistleblowers, really anyone with justifiable paranoia about evil maid attacks or intel AMT fuckery.
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Jul 26, 2020 06:29
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Right now, it's mostly useful for journalists, activists, whistleblowers, really anyone with justifiable paranoia about evil maid attacks or intel AMT fuckery. ah ha, see, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
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Jul 26, 2020 06:35
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gradenko_2000 posted:I saw a post about someone that's going to try to import something called "coreboot" into AMD CPUs. Anyone know what that's about? A quick google tells me it's supposed to be an open-source BIOS, but it's not really clear what the advantages of that would be except maybe that it's supposed to be faster and/or more secure? (It’s a hackintosh thing mostly)
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Jul 26, 2020 06:48
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I thought coreboot booted very, very quickly too because it lacks a lot of legacy nonsense, doesn't it?
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Jul 26, 2020 11:40
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Coreboot always me think of open source firmware replacements that only run on a handful of laptops and no CPUs newer than Sandy Bridge because all the devs no true Scotsman'd each other down to accepting that era as the most power you can get on x86 while being acceptably Free (tm).
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Jul 27, 2020 04:22
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Some folks are doing just fine with Coreboot on modern systems: https://system76.com/ The Oryx Pro which has 10th gen Intel CPUs and up to an RTX 2080 Super Max-Q has it.
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Jul 27, 2020 05:22
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Kazinsal posted:Coreboot always me think of open source firmware replacements that only run on a handful of laptops and no CPUs newer than Sandy Bridge because all the devs no true Scotsman'd each other down to accepting that era as the most power you can get on x86 while being acceptably Free (tm). Basically everything built after 2008 or so has some kind of management engine in it with likely terrible security. I genuinely applaud the coreboot team for swimming against the tide, even though there's not much to be done about it. Maybe someday we'll have RISC V laptops that are open source down to the architecture.
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Jul 27, 2020 06:54
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Basically everything built after 2008 or so has some kind of management engine in it with likely terrible security. I genuinely applaud the coreboot team for swimming against the tide, even though there's not much to be done about it. Maybe someday we'll have RISC V laptops that are open source down to the architecture. Pretty sure the Intel Management Engine, at least, has been proven to be actually bad at security. AMD's offering is likely just as bad but hasn't been widely deployed so researchers don't give it as much attention.
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Jul 28, 2020 16:15
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Munkeymon posted:Pretty sure the Intel Management Engine, at least, has been proven to be actually bad at security. AMD's offering is likely just as bad but hasn't been widely deployed so researchers don't give it as much attention.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:43
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Zen4 as Genoa may be possibly 2021, not 2022. https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-e...n.483288.0.html According to those slides, RDNA3 is 2021 as well and it kind of looks like the APU's will skip RDNA2 in favor of RDNA3? Either way looks like a release date for Cezanne/Vega is likely 1H 2021, so maybe 7-8 months after Tigerlake. Such an aggressive timeline may indicate a Zen4/AM4/PCIE4 release with the I/O die from Zen2/3/4, and a Zen4/AM5/DDR5/PCIE5 with a new I/O die, which could be when the X670/B650/A620 launch. Cadence could then be Vermeer September-October 2020, Cezanne April-June 2021, Genoa November-December 2021, ??? Zen4 March-April 2022, Rembrandt June-July 2022 Intel plans to release late 2022, early 2023 their first 7nm CPU's with Golden Cove and I have to wonder if those dates won't continue to slip
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Jul 28, 2020 20:44
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Great, now I can be underwhelmed by Zen3 just like I was with Zen2 and put off replacing my 3570k in anticipation of the next ryzen release.
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Jul 28, 2020 22:46
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ConanTheLibrarian posted:Great, now I can be underwhelmed by Zen3 just like I was with Zen2 and put off replacing my 3570k in anticipation of the next ryzen release. Server Zen 4 in 2021 according to the road map. No mention in the slides of consumer Zen 4 at all. EmpyreanFlux posted:Zen4 as Genoa may be possibly 2021, not 2022. Not sure where you are getting APUs skipping RDNA2 from those slides.
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Jul 29, 2020 06:34
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I just want to say to the planners: the 3700X has been so cheap lately, especially if you want the next upcoming Assassins Creed or can find someone willing to pay you for the key, that the next chips would have to do a hell of a lot to justify their difference in price. They likely won’t close that gap.
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Jul 29, 2020 09:12
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I think they're going to go even lower and that may pose a problem for the new chips. Would you buy a 4700X at $350 or would you buy a 3700X at $200?
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Jul 29, 2020 09:15
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