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MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Jedit posted:

Not an RPG, a computer game. I played it, it was probably crap in retrospect but when you're 19 running a black ops intelligence division is cool.

The computer game was based off the RPG system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_13

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Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

MrL_JaKiri posted:

The computer game was based off the RPG system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_13

Yeah, and Richard Tucholka thought that anything that even resembled anything from his games was directly ripped off from it. JMS dropped it rather than having to deal with the drama.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

MrL_JaKiri posted:

The computer game was based off the RPG system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_13

Ah, that I didn't know. But it's OK, because it turns out the game isn't the one I played either.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos

Jedit posted:

Ah, that I didn't know. But it's OK, because it turns out the game isn't the one I played either.

Greetings, fellow innocuous employee of Wildlife and Fisheries!

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

We just started a rewatch on Vudu because of the 4:3 versions and it's going great. I'm just so happy with the cgi. But anyway I really wanted to talk about how much Christopher Franke's score is integral to the feel of this show. Just in the pilot and Midnight on the Firing Line there are a couple of really heartfelt monologues that just have a subtle, quiet theme in the background that adds so much. Even the worst episodes (like The Gathering) usually have, as you might say, one moment of perfect beauty.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


I played the first few minutes of the dvd version and the vudu version of episode one side by side and I couldn't really notice one was better than the other. Like, they clearly looked a little different, the color tones were different, and the vudu version looked a little grainer.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

We just started a rewatch on Vudu because of the 4:3 versions and it's going great. I'm just so happy with the cgi. But anyway I really wanted to talk about how much Christopher Franke's score is integral to the feel of this show. Just in the pilot and Midnight on the Firing Line there are a couple of really heartfelt monologues that just have a subtle, quiet theme in the background that adds so much. Even the worst episodes (like The Gathering) usually have, as you might say, one moment of perfect beauty.

The Gathering wasn't scored by Franke, though. It had a score by Stewart Copeland of The Police.

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Jedit posted:

The Gathering wasn't scored by Franke, though. It had a score by Stewart Copeland of The Police.

IIRC the special edition was rescored by Franke.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer
I really liked Star Trek's secular humanist future because it was what it was without actually calling religious people stupid, I think it sucks that they walk that back every chance they get because it just makes whatever they produce even more generic.

Meanwhile everybody laughs when they have the Mormons step on a rake in every space opera

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









The expanse had them as earnest and kind, for all they got mercilessly punked

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

CainFortea posted:

I played the first few minutes of the dvd version and the vudu version of episode one side by side and I couldn't really notice one was better than the other. Like, they clearly looked a little different, the color tones were different, and the vudu version looked a little grainer.

The live action scenes are probably similar, just the dvds got to use the full widescreen. It's the cgi where the real difference lies. What size screen are you watching on though? I mean it's like 360p to 480p, and still an ancient analog master, so it's not going to be night and day, but the cgi is noticeably fuzzier on the dvds to me. Part of it is the cropping too, there's just more to see in the 4:3.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

The live action scenes are probably similar, just the dvds got to use the full widescreen. It's the cgi where the real difference lies. What size screen are you watching on though? I mean it's like 360p to 480p, and still an ancient analog master, so it's not going to be night and day, but the cgi is noticeably fuzzier on the dvds to me. Part of it is the cropping too, there's just more to see in the 4:3.

I had them side by side on my 1440 monitor. And I went far enough to see some CGI.

Zat
Jan 16, 2008

CainFortea posted:

I had them side by side on my 1440 monitor. And I went far enough to see some CGI.

The CGI was always OK (though not optimal because of the cropping and sometimes bad framing), but the real issue were the composite shots which stood out super bad.

The 4:3 version doesn't really improve the picture (except that you get to see the complete frame in the CGI/composite shots) but it's a massive improvement in terms of getting a consistent experience with minimal unwanted visual distractions.

It's just a much more pleasant watch, and I wish they'd authored the DVDs like this in the first place, given the limitations of the material they had to work with.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


If you could, I'd like to see if you could point to a specific part that's bad cause all the cgi in the opening shot of Ragesh 3 looks widescreen and good.

Zat
Jan 16, 2008

CainFortea posted:

If you could, I'd like to see if you could point to a specific part that's bad cause all the cgi in the opening shot of Ragesh 3 looks widescreen and good.

Quickly skimmed through episode 1 and didn't really find anything glaring there (hardly any composite shots), but right in episode 2 there's some pretty bad stuff with the Soul Hunter e.g. from 35:05, and then 37:25. And stuff like this just gets more and more frequent as the series goes on.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

There are a couple notable scenes. I remember the one in Soul Hunter. They actually do drop off for a while.

IIRC they filmed the interior shots in 16:9 but lost some of the master footage and had to grab it from stations or something.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Talking about this change?



then flips to this after a cut back to the Soulhunter

Zat
Jan 16, 2008

I can't recheck the video right now but the really bad-looking shots were the ones where the guy was floating one or more of his little soul balls. The shots were obviously very blurry compared to the other shots before and after, and also nastily cropped (like in one shot the top of his head was cut off in order to keep the device at the bottom of the frame visible). At least one shot also seemed to be slightly squished to avoid losing too much information via the crop.

One important scene whose DVD presentation I always hated was in "Into the Fire" with the Vorlon and Shadow representatives appearing as holograms on the White Star. That was such a blurry mess all around that it ruined the emotional moment for me, while the Vudu version that I just watched a few days ago looked totally fine.

Zat fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jul 25, 2020

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


While trying to find that part, I saw the bit when Londo begs Vir to kill him to try and save Centauri Prime. Even after all he's done he's still willing to die for his planet.




How different does this look from the vudu version?

Ayin
Jan 6, 2010

Have a great day.

Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

We just started a rewatch on Vudu because of the 4:3 versions and it's going great.
Man I'm glad someone has the original 4:3. Is vudu good in general? If I'm getting boxed into one of these digital video services I guess I might as well use it. :v

Between cropping CGI scenes to fake widescreen and the "no subtitles for alien speech" (at least from the episodes I've seen thusfar) I've gotten really displeased with the dvds :(

(hello thread, my dad and I taped b5 as it aired. we only missed one episode for the whole run! it was Confessions & Lamentations)

Ayin fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Jul 25, 2020

Zat
Jan 16, 2008

CainFortea posted:




How different does this look from the vudu version?

Just taller. Don't expect any added detail, but the picture quality just looks more consistent from shot to shot.

I tried to match your screenshot from Into the Fire. Vudu version:

Zat fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Jul 25, 2020

TheDiceMustRoll
Jul 23, 2018

Zat posted:

Quickly skimmed through episode 1 and didn't really find anything glaring there (hardly any composite shots), but right in episode 2 there's some pretty bad stuff with the Soul Hunter e.g. from 35:05, and then 37:25. And stuff like this just gets more and more frequent as the series goes on.

Any of the scenes where they go into the great machine and they show you that bridge are a loving nightmare

TheDiceMustRoll
Jul 23, 2018

Tighclops posted:

I really liked Star Trek's secular humanist future because it was what it was without actually calling religious people stupid, I think it sucks that they walk that back every chance they get because it just makes whatever they produce even more generic.

Meanwhile everybody laughs when they have the Mormons step on a rake in every space opera

I mean they had a chapel on the ToS connie in Balance of Terror.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Ayin posted:

Man I'm glad someone has the original 4:3. Is vudu good in general? If I'm getting boxed into one of these digital video services I guess I might as well use it. :v

Between cropping CGI scenes to fake widescreen and the "no subtitles for alien speech" (at least from the episodes I've seen thusfar) I've gotten really displeased with the dvds :(

(hello thread, my dad and I taped b5 as it aired. we only missed one episode for the whole run! it was Confessions & Lamentations)

Honestly this is the first time I've used it. We have some movies on there for the kids, but mostly we've used it to download local copies to the iPad for car trips. It's not a monthly subscription that I'm aware, we purchased the series for $70.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Zat posted:

Just taller. Don't expect any added detail, but the picture quality just looks more consistent from shot to shot.

I tried to match your screenshot from Into the Fire. Vudu version:



Thank you for this!

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

I mean they had a chapel on the ToS connie in Balance of Terror.

Didn’t Kirk cuck the crewman after he died also?

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Someone's been rendering again.

https://i.imgur.com/1Axmz3t.jpg

I'm breaking the link for size - it's 15000x4320.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



TraderStav posted:

Didn’t Kirk cuck the crewman after he died also?

Kirk canonically had sex with everyone on the Enterprise at least ten times so sure, I guess.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005






Jedit posted:

Someone's been rendering again.

https://i.imgur.com/1Axmz3t.jpg

I'm breaking the link for size - it's 15000x4320.

I appreciate the effort but checking the full render, I guess that budget shortfall included the inability to match paint hues between any two contiguous hull plates, producing the distinct impression that the station was finished with discount bathroom tiles.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Appropriations guy hitting up all the space Re Stores in the quadrant so they can finish the station

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

Jedit posted:

Someone's been rendering again.

https://i.imgur.com/1Axmz3t.jpg

I'm breaking the link for size - it's 15000x4320.

I know that from an art design perspective it was to create details that were visible from some distance away, but those orange tanks on top of the station have got to hold enormous amounts of... whatever they do.

Is that the original model/texture? What's the source?

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

McSpanky posted:

I appreciate the effort but checking the full render, I guess that budget shortfall included the inability to match paint hues between any two contiguous hull plates, producing the distinct impression that the station was finished with discount bathroom tiles.

I mean... probably not outside canon.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

In Star Trek it’s called aztecing and it’s to add visual interest to large swaths of hull that would look sort of fake otherwise. B5 isn’t actually aztecing exactly, because the textures don’t connect in larger patterns.


Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.
I'm doing a rewatch at the same pace as TheAardvark, godamn I'm really looking forward to him starting the third season so I can get my fix.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I know that from an art design perspective it was to create details that were visible from some distance away, but those orange tanks on top of the station have got to hold enormous amounts of... whatever they do.

Is that the original model/texture? What's the source?

I don't know. It's up on Reddit, I only saw it because a friend linked it.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I know that from an art design perspective it was to create details that were visible from some distance away, but those orange tanks on top of the station have got to hold enormous amounts of... whatever they do.

Is that the original model/texture? What's the source?

Maybe deuterium tanks for the fusion reactor? Water reclamation and recycling? Those are two things I imagine you'd want to have a lot of extra supply and redundancy.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Spoo tanks.

Ayin
Jan 6, 2010

Have a great day.

Angry Lobster posted:

I'm doing a rewatch at the same pace as TheAardvark, godamn I'm really looking forward to him starting the third season so I can get my fix.
Same, except I'm going to barrel on past :getin: Just finished 2x22

I'm so glad this thread cued me into the vudu version, thank you. I was dreading have to witness cropped fleet battles. :(

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005






Doctor Zero posted:

In Star Trek it’s called aztecing and it’s to add visual interest to large swaths of hull that would look sort of fake otherwise. B5 isn’t actually aztecing exactly, because the textures don’t connect in larger patterns.




I'm aware of aztecing, and had I considered overnight that an ultra HD render would need some kind of texturing pattern to not look like a big cylindrical eggshell. A lot of people tend to go overboard in equating contrast with quality and end up making something that looks like a badly aliased game mod though(see fig. 1).

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Iymarra
Oct 4, 2010




Survived AGDQ 2018 Awful Games block!
Grimey Drawer
I really, REALLY wonder if the doctor is playing a long game here, given the comment about 'Grey' sector. Still, a nice synopsis.

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