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Velius posted:Another day, another Der Shovel post about terrible teammates. Man, if only one player could make a difference by being even slightly better than average. Thatd be cool. Would indeed be cool, but is not entirely the case in teamgames.
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Jul 25, 2020 19:36
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You can't win all of your games, but you can win well over half of them. It gets old seeing the same three or four people post about how bad their teams are, when you can look up their stats and see that they're performing about as well in game as the average player and winning about as much as the average player. If you want better teams you can improve yourself or play in a division with above average players.Der Shovel posted:some kind of bar for entry to ranked would be nice to eliminate the bots and functionally braindead. Setting a barrier to entry for ranked makes you win less, since the opponent you're matched against will be better on average. It doesn't change the dynamic either, if you ban everyone sub 50% it just changes from 47% players throwing the match by dying early to 53% players throwing the match by dying early. You see the same thing if you play early season rank 5 matches. The really bad players in ranked also play hundreds of games in the sub rank 10 bracket, so you can avoid them by going to rank 5 pretty early in the season. Even if you don't, they make it much easier to keep your star.
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Jul 25, 2020 21:19
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Yolomon Wayne posted:Would indeed be cool, but is not entirely the case in teamgames. Yeah  
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Jul 25, 2020 21:49
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wdarkk posted:Its not too bad, just roll in coop until you get t6 cruisers that you can annihilate. Do you have any tips? Even against them I sometimes get a few cits for like 3-4k damage but that's not killing anything fast. E: I especially enjoy that due to the steep dive bombing mechanic that if you turn your camera to see your crosshairs you cannot see flak spawning in front of you E2: loving done! 1 CL kill with rockets, killed a BB with Secondary fire, and rammed 2 more BBs. What utter trash. Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 21:58
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James Garfield posted:You can't win all of your games, but you can win well over half of them. It gets old seeing the same three or four people post about how bad their teams are, when you can look up their stats and see that they're performing about as well in game as the average player and winning about as much as the average player. If you want better teams you can improve yourself or play in a division with above average players. So if everyone can win over half their games, that doesnt work out. It sthe same thing i keep hearing from streamers "everyone on your team is potato so you must carry". Yes, everyone is the hero, so we have 12 v 12 solo warriors who think they must win alone and then get 3 dead DDs at the 5 minute mark. Game over. No matter how good you are, you cant salvage that. THOSE are the games people complain about, not the one you lose fair and sqaure. The ones where there is 100% and absolute *proof* that its the teams fault, the ones where you score 250k and a kraken and 3 caps and still lose, and then some armchair admiral rolls up to tell you its your fault entirely and you should git gud.
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Jul 26, 2020 00:01
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Getting to the coal point where I can get a ship  Yoshino or Thunderer? Or Marceu I guess.
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Jul 26, 2020 00:58
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Hegel Exercises posted:Getting to the coal point where I can get a ship Thunderer is probably the best choice. Although the Marceau was tempting since I like DDs. But its hard to argue with a super accurate BB with 18 guns. Thinking on the Kagero, what I think it needs is 12km torps, even if they arent quite as damaging, it really needs some space. Im spoiled with the Skane and having such long range torps.
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Jul 26, 2020 01:54
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Yolomon Wayne posted:So if everyone can win over half their games, that doesnt work out. The literal best players in the world top out at about 72-75% solo win rate. At the absolute best, a quarter of games are not winnable for anyone. Complaining about them is like complaining that rain exists or how annoying it is that you have to sleep every night.
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Jul 26, 2020 03:28
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toadee posted:The literal best players in the world top out at about 72-75% solo win rate. At the absolute best, a quarter of games are not winnable for anyone. Complaining about them is like complaining that rain exists or how annoying it is that you have to sleep every night. Venting is cathartic. 
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Jul 26, 2020 04:00
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Hegel Exercises posted:Venting is cathartic. the problem becomes when that venting ends up leaking out and people start wondering why they get chat bans I've never gotten chat banned and I definitely tell people who are being dumb that they're being dumb, but I also only do so after they start it, or I instead rephrase it as advice, not criticism. and yes, seeing the same complaints about bad teammates gets old very fast, I'm only interested in the extraordinarily potatoey of potatoes, or the ones who say hilarious poo poo in chat to justify their errors. Its very painful to see the one making a fool of themselves be the goon, not the other way around
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Jul 26, 2020 06:18
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Yolomon Wayne posted:So if everyone can win over half their games, that doesnt work out. Every account can't have a win rate above 50%, but the average warships player is terrible and being better than the average warships player gives you a win rate above 50% so pretty much any person should be able to get a win rate above 50%. Most of the people with thousands of games and bad win rates are there because they make no attempt to improve (which is hard to understand when you're going to play thousands of games, especially given that this is a game about shooting boats and "improve" translates to "shoot more boats"). You can't win every game and nobody will complain if you post a screenshot of a 250k kraken loss and say your team was bad, but if the only thing you do is blame your team for losing it doesn't get you anywhere. Especially not if you complain about poo poo teams making you lose when looking up your account indicates that you do about as well as the average player and win about half the time. There is a certain parallel with the 7000 game 43% players here.
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Jul 26, 2020 08:49
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The Shokaku is bonkers in this Ranked season. There's very few DD's and loads of Battleships. I driled 6 Citadels into an Odin on a single run just flying around him in circles. Assuming your team doesn't totally collapse you'll break 100K damage a game meaning you'll probably keep your star on losses.
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Jul 26, 2020 12:05
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Yeah I bitterly regret getting rid of my Shokaku for ranked. The T8 carriers I have are the Kaga, Saipan and Graf Zeppelin. Out of those three only the Kaga feels anywhere decent to play, and doesn't have the alpha capability of the Shokaku in these types of games.
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Jul 26, 2020 12:18
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RN heavy cruisers are.... bad. Short ranged, thinly armoured and the guns don't hit near as hard as they need to in order to make up for it. I can usually find a good niche for most any line but these things? The entire time i'm playing them it's "but why though?"
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Jul 26, 2020 13:08
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Blinks77 posted:RN heavy cruisers are.... bad. Pretty sure this is how most people feel about them.
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Jul 26, 2020 14:21
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I feel like they should have at least given them smoke like the light cruisers, at least then they'd have something. They are pretty much like IJN cruisers, just usually with worse torps.
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Jul 26, 2020 17:53
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Tier 8 destroyers are brutal. So much radar, constant CVs. It's insanely hard trying to accomplish anything in these games.
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Jul 26, 2020 18:29
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CitizenKain posted:I feel like they should have at least given them smoke like the light cruisers, at least then they'd have something. They are pretty much like IJN cruisers, just usually with worse torps. I find it's the range that's really crippling. Everyone out ranges you at tier so you need to sneak up and island hug and that puts you in bad place. The Devonshire and Surrey I could hold to a reasonable 60-68% WR but I'm sub 50 in the Albemarle just now. You're T8 with a 15.7 km range, decent HE but AP that produces a lot of overpens. There are almost no situation where I would rather be in the Albemarle rather than the Baltimore that does all it can do and more (except torps obviously).
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Jul 27, 2020 11:27
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Der Shovel posted:Tier 8 destroyers are brutal. Im on the Benson and I know what you mean. You've got to be constantly aware that if you're within 10km of a cruiser and even some Battleships you're liable to be detected. Never mind the constant CV sweeps. When you combine that with then coming up against tier 9 and 10 DD's that just erase you with their guns its insanely frustrating. Especially since i only ever seem to get 3+ destroyer games at the moment.
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Jul 27, 2020 12:48
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serious gaylord posted:Im on the Benson and I know what you mean. You've got to be constantly aware that if you're within 10km of a cruiser and even some Battleships you're liable to be detected. Never mind the constant CV sweeps. Theres nothing really wrong with the benson; what youre describing is general dd play considerations at high tier. Please dont take Der Shovel as an authority on these things. Ill try and give you some general suggestions though: 1. Be aware of your concealment range compared with the enemy dds. This is probably the most important single thing. If they outspot you, youll need to figure out ways to avoid being forced to use smoke at disadvantaged times. A good approach (pardon the pun) is to use islands near cap circles to hide behind, especially in smaller cap circle maps, and when theyre contested push in to spot. If you have the concealment advantage do the opposite, and try and keep your concealment range clear of islands and use cap circles to indicate if the enemy dd is approaching; in that case try and either back toward them or keep angled to maintain separation. 2. Dont forget you have guns and torps. Benson isnt the highest DPM destroyer but its solid. Youve got good torpedoes, great smoke, and good guns particular up close. Dont waste the smoke, do your best to avoid attracting early cv attention that forces you to blow it pointlessly. If youve got escorting cruisers split it with them. I use smoke pretty infrequently even in gunboat dds if it makes more sense to provide spotting and split enemy fire. 3. At the start of the match count the radar ships, and keep an eye on the mini map. If youre facing Soviet radar it can usually be endured, since in many cases they get 2-3 shots total. Try and play with your speed, dont immediately boost out of smoke when you get radiates, instead back up, stop, move up, try and throw off their aim. If its us radar Id be more inclined to bail, but if you can throw off their aim do so. 4. Your first job in a dd is to survive. Your value goes up as the round progresses. Early on the red team generally knows where youll be and theyve got radar ready. Late game you could be anywhere, radars are used up or on cool down, or theyre behind islands. Dont waste your hp charging into a cap immediately, its frequently better to spot, hold your smoke, and get an early torp salvo aimed at where their heavy ships are going. Then once their ships have committed and are permaspotted by other ships, smoke up and start shooting.
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Jul 27, 2020 14:06
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Velius posted:Theres nothing really wrong with the benson; what youre describing is general dd play considerations at high tier. Please dont take Der Shovel as an authority on these things. I didn't even mention the Benson, you weirdo. Or is there some part of "it's brutal to play a T8 destroyer right now with all the radar and CVs in games" that is massively wrong in your opinion? Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 14:27
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It's not always going to work vs unicums, but when radared, a lot of times this is what I will do: Assuming Im starting from stop: 1) Go to full power for about 8 seconds, this is long enough to show them a smokestack of me going forward 2) Hit full reverse - now, if you started off as far from them as you should be, their first shot should go well past you 3) If it's a Des Moines, I will immediately go full neutral throttle, they will probably lead backward or forward, so they will miss their next shot. If its something with a longer reload, I will go neutral, show them neutral smokestack, then reverse again and they will miss forward 4) Now I will go full throttle, at this point their aim is all messed up and they will likely underlead the next shot 5) At this point, it depends how far you are from them, if you're near the edge of radar/cover, then just go for it, if not, and you're a good distance away, full reverse again perhaps The more people on the flank that can shoot at you, the less this works, so, again, be aware of the totality of threats and plan accordingly. Don't feel like you have to do everything at once, and hang back from caps until an opportunity presents. Your win rate in DDs will shoot up tremendously if you just adopt the strategy of "wait until the DD on this flank fucks up in front of me, then kill it".
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Jul 27, 2020 14:27
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toadee posted:Your win rate in DDs will shoot up tremendously if you just adopt the strategy of "wait until the DD on this flank fucks up in front of me, then kill it". Yeah this is good advice in my experience. Of course maybe don't have to take it as far as the Shimakaze shooting 20km torps from A1 but rushing into caps is a sure-fire suicide these days.
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Jul 27, 2020 14:30
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Der Shovel posted:Yeah this is good advice in my experience. Of course maybe don't have to take it as far as the Shimakaze shooting 20km torps from A1 but rushing into caps is a sure-fire suicide these days. I start almost every DD game going into a cap actually, I just don't ever really intend to take it unless it just stays uncontested. Doing this flushes out a shitload of overeager DD hunters, helps identify who is on the flank, and often gets them to overextend and die early.
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Jul 27, 2020 14:34
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That's also why backing in to caps is important so that you can instantly escape when the MINE MINE MINE MINE crew reveals itself, vs being stuck making a giant loop like a big idiot and losing most of your health or your life. Typically a radar cruiser that wants to radar a cap will hit it the INSTANT they have coverage on the cap (when it's being contested) and no further, so when you can just jet out of the circle immediately that's enough to break vision.
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Jul 27, 2020 15:50
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Gwaihir posted:That's also why backing in to caps is important so that you can instantly escape when the MINE MINE MINE MINE crew reveals itself, vs being stuck making a giant loop like a big idiot and losing most of your health or your life. Typically a radar cruiser that wants to radar a cap will hit it the INSTANT they have coverage on the cap (when it's being contested) and no further, so when you can just jet out of the circle immediately that's enough to break vision. I've been learning to do that recently, and it sure helps. Especially in something with good turret angles like a Jutland, since I can still drop a few shots while zipping out. With French DD's I like just brushing the edge of the cap to see who bites, and hoping that I can zip away fast enough.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:11
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Yeah, backing into caps and facing an easy escape route is one of the first lessons I learned, but I'm still struggling. It might just be that the Öland is a tricky bote to play, but I feel weak in almost every situation. Going toe to toe with enemy destroyers is tough because the guns aren't amazing, I don't have a lot of utility, and my torpedoes hit for so little that I can't really even yolo anyone that gets too close. I've also tried to play the Lightning, but that thing also has its own problems. Insanely bad AA, short ranged torpedoes and no heals. I've had some success sniffing out DDs who figured they were safe in their smokescreens with hydro, and occasionally blapping people with torps, but I still think I'm not getting the thing.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:12
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The Lightning is pretty good and getting good in it really helps when the Jutland and Daring are pretty straight upgrades on it.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:26
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Der Shovel posted:Yeah, backing into caps and facing an easy escape route is one of the first lessons I learned, but I'm still struggling. It might just be that the Öland is a tricky bote to play, but I feel weak in almost every situation. Going toe to toe with enemy destroyers is tough because the guns aren't amazing, I don't have a lot of utility, and my torpedoes hit for so little that I can't really even yolo anyone that gets too close. Oland is designed for torping from longer range (but as with anything, you hit more the closer you are). The guns are pretty good for tier 8 so if someone repairs a flood you can try to set them on fire, but you have to be careful using guns since you have no tools to survive while shooting in the open. Lightning is a smoke gunboat. Torpedoes aren't your main weapon, and all but about four DDs in the game (all of which are in the EU tree) have insanely bad AA so it's not really a weakness. Even the DDs with the best AA will still die to a CV unless it eats an astronomical quanitity of flak. You have good enough concealment that in the absence of a CV, you can try to play aggressively early and take out the enemy DD before you smoke up and farm damage.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:06
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I met a sov BB model called "Al Sov Rossiya", tier 9. Never seen or heard of it, new coal ship maybe?
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Jul 28, 2020 01:27
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Part the Wave 3 Azure Lane tie in. From what I understand its a base hull Sovetsky Soyuz. Is there any room in the clan by chance? The pubbie one I'm in was getting way too sweaty. Like I'll do some casual clan battles but I was also low-key carried a few of the matches and I'm an Also this video has been helping me cope with ranked. Play it in the queue anytime I take Big Mammy out. A drat love letter to this ship. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwrckyOSEns&t=302s Hegel Exercises fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 01:48
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I remembered today that I'd bought a Minotaur at some point in the past, and I don't know why. I've played 6 games in it, and disliked everyone of them, so why keep it. Its a worse Neptune, in a game where being a thin skinned ship is a death sentence with the number of high tier rail-gun style ships.
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Jul 28, 2020 02:47
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Hegel Exercises posted:Part the Wave 3 Azure Lane tie in. From what I understand its a base hull Sovetsky Soyuz. If there isnt we'll boot someone inactive. Apply and drop a note in discord.
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Jul 28, 2020 04:00
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Hegel Exercises posted:Part the Wave 3 Azure Lane tie in. From what I understand its a base hull Sovetsky Soyuz. theres room and plenty of inactive goons to boot if there isnt
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Jul 28, 2020 12:38
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Jagged a 2100 base xp 100k torpedo damage game in Yugumo with 4 hits on a Shokaku launched just before it sank me, which followed not long later by 2300 base xp games in Fletcher and Lo Yang with lots of kills/caps/fires/torp hits finally netted my Odin. The Yugumo game saved me from having to grind out 120 cits/fires on US/French BBs, which was the easiest option left.
NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 14:44
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CitizenKain posted:I remembered today that I'd bought a Minotaur at some point in the past, and I don't know why. I've played 6 games in it, and disliked everyone of them, so why keep it. Its a worse Neptune, in a game where being a thin skinned ship is a death sentence with the number of high tier rail-gun style ships. In what strange world of yours is Minotaur, which is a strictly better Neptune, worse than Neptune?
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Jul 28, 2020 15:16
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CitizenKain posted:I remembered today that I'd bought a Minotaur at some point in the past, and I don't know why. Agreed. The Minotaur was my first T10 and it's also my least played. Maybe I should try playing it as a radar Mino instead of smoke Mino even though it's suboptimal for solo randoms, but at least it might be a bit more fun. Then again, maybe if I went back to it now that I know a bit more about playing cruisers, I might get better results out of it v  vE: James Garfield posted:Oland is designed for torping from longer range (but as with anything, you hit more the closer you are). The guns are pretty good for tier 8 so if someone repairs a flood you can try to set them on fire, but you have to be careful using guns since you have no tools to survive while shooting in the open. Yeah, I think the problem is ultimately that I don't know how to use torps effectively. I tend to miss a lot more than I hit, which combined with the low damage Swedish torps, means I don't just do that much damage in my Öland. And of course this is another problem that becomes larger as I go up tiers, because ships are faster and more maneuverable, and players generally start having a clue so you can't just land max range torps on a full broadside König aynmore. quote:You have good enough concealment that in the absence of a CV, you can try to play aggressively early and take out the enemy DD before you smoke up and farm damage. Is the Lightning's smoke really that good for damage farming? It's got such a short duration that I figure it's better to use it to disengage when poo poo hits the fan, or to finish off a DD who is in hydro range / otherwise detected. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 15:26
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FatCow posted:If there isnt we'll boot someone inactive. Apply and drop a note in discord. Will do, once my cool down period is up. I'm down for clan battles/divving up, but I mainly like the bonus materials and the Friday mission things  Der Shovel posted:Is the Lightning's smoke really that good for damage farming? It's got such a short duration that I figure it's better to use it to disengage when poo poo hits the fan, or to finish off a DD who is in hydro range / otherwise detected. My understanding is that you smoke up, set a few fires, reposition and repeat. I really like the RN DD's. They're such spectacular assholes if you can pull it off right. I think only Jutland and Daring get the improved AP but don't neglect shooting AP at broadside ships if you can, the damage adds up and the quick smokes let you reposition really easy. I know I can mulch things pretty effectively in the Daring if they give me a flat surface. Oh I also find that being a mid to late game DD hunter is satisfying, not many can outgun you and the hydro lets you avoid torps. Hegel Exercises fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 15:30
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Radar Mino sucks now. There's a billion other things out there that will spot DDs and your AA is dogshit so not having smoke to avoid being harassed by planes is essential. Also because of planes, firing behind islands becomes trickier. Just take smoke, move to a spot where someone is going to push within 15km of in the midst of doing a turn out, pop smoke, and instantly you have 30-40k of AP damage. Do that 4 times and you have 120-160k and a couple kills, every game. Minotaur just shits damage, it can't look at another ship for more than 4 seconds without doing at least 8k. Der Shovel posted:Is the Lightning's smoke really that good for damage farming? It's got such a short duration that I figure it's better to use it to disengage when poo poo hits the fan, or to finish off a DD who is in hydro range / otherwise detected. You farm damage by looking at a target, when it DCPs, either from one of your torps or something else, wait 5-10 seconds, pop a smoke, light a fire or two, then move away. Instant 20k damage on a BB.
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Jul 28, 2020 15:32
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toadee posted:You farm damage by looking at a target, when it DCPs, either from one of your torps or something else, wait 5-10 seconds, pop a smoke, light a fire or two, then move away. Instant 20k damage on a BB. Hmm, definitely worth trying. I guess it's time to slap on the +fire chance flags! Cheers for the tip!
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Jul 28, 2020 15:38
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