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Mr.PayDay posted:Intel was there when all evolutions and innovations happened the last 2 decades Yeah, they're losing their edge to well-run companies with better ideas and more talent. And they're actually really, really nice. In contrast, Intel don't know what they really want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUjDMdSwefk
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Jul 30, 2020 10:02
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Mr.PayDay posted:In reality the Enterprise and Server market prints money and Intel owns 90 % of the Cloud, Data Center and 24/7 High end critical business SLA infrastructures and dominates the virtualization backends. The general rule of thumb is to go by the Opteron days and point out it took them ~2yr to get ~20% of the x86 server market and so its assumed it'll take about that long to do the same today. Epyc has been out for a while now but also didn't start ramping production well apparently until 2018-ish and since then AMD has been getting more market share slowly but steadily over time. Due to their fab limitation I don't think they'll ever be able to kick Intel out of the x86 server market (or any market other than consoles apparently) and perhaps its also slowing them down some now too but its faaar from unreasonable to assume at this point that they can take a big chunk of the x86 server market away from Intel for at least a year or 2 going forward. Mr.PayDay posted:Beside that, every tech and gaming magazine labels Intel as the fastest gaming CPUs If you want to ignore value and focus on 1 or 2 things Intel can still eke out some thin wins here and there but otherwise they're rather disappointing to buy right now in general for desktop/HEDT and even laptops are starting to look better for AMD (though that is a very recent change and not many models are out there still).
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Jul 30, 2020 10:38
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:The general rule of thumb is to go by the Opteron days and point out it took them ~2yr to get ~20% of the x86 server market Was Opteron as bad for servers as Bulldozer was for the consumer market? I tend to imagine that an architecture that runs as hot as FX did wouldn't be a good fit for servers. Or was this a case of AMD getting a chunk of the market just because they were an alternative to Intel at all?
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Jul 30, 2020 11:13
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Opteron was their first x64 server CPU similar to the Athlon 64, and got a bunch of market share when the Intel options were Xeon furnaces based on Netburst, or Itanium if you wanted 64bit  They started to lose market share again when Xeons went Core-based, the new Opterons couldn't quite compete because Phenom was okay but not as competitive. Bulldozer came after that.
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Jul 30, 2020 11:29
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orcane posted:Opteron was their first x64 server CPU similar to the Athlon 64, and got a bunch of market share when the Intel options were Xeon furnaces based on Netburst, or Itanium if you wanted 64bit ohhhhh okay. They were still branding the Bulldozer-era CPUs as Opterons so I guess I got the timeline wrong. But what you wrote makes sense.
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Jul 30, 2020 11:33
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Yeah they kept the Opteron name for server CPUs until Zen/Epyc. Previously they were just Athlon too, just with a different suffix I think.
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Jul 30, 2020 11:36
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Yeah Opteron was a long term branding that spanned multiple architectures. I suspect they retired it because of the stink that stuck to the brand after the Bulldozer versions tanked their x86 market share to nothing. The K7 and K8 based Opterons did quite well though and did offer significant performance and value advantages over the Intel competing chips of the time.
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Jul 30, 2020 12:09
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Yeah Opteron was a long term branding that spanned multiple architectures. One of them I recall, was a favourite among overclockers and was great value. Opteron 140? 145? I can't remember exactly
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Jul 30, 2020 15:50
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:The server market is slow to change and even with a superior product its widely acknowledged that AMD would take years to get decent market share. Intel will always be a player in the x86 space. AMD is now back to being a competitor which at the least puts pricing pressure on Intel. Intel doesn't have the bulldozer issue of a poo poo arch on a trailing process, but they don't have their process advantage anymore. Since servers are very concerned with PPW having an extra 20% advantage is huge. These things take time so expect any real change to take years. That said, with interest rates low, future cash is more valuable which does explain why PE ratios are higher now.
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Jul 30, 2020 16:51
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HalloKitty posted:One of them I recall, was a favourite among overclockers and was great value. Opteron 140? 145? I can't remember exactly I thought it was the 140 but I was never an AMD person around that time. Echoing (as always) the surprising 9, soon to be 10 year run on my 2600K — computing didn't really change for us on the edge as fast as it used too. PC LOAD LETTER posted:The server market is slow to change and even with a superior product its widely acknowledged that AMD would take years to get decent market share. I think Intel's move here is to maintain OEM wins at all costs and play pricing games / nearly dumping games because office / business machines don't care as much, as someone pointed out a few pages back. AMD went for the right sector first — limited capacity targeting a lower volume / higher margin industry.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:29
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movax posted:I thought it was the 140 but I was never an AMD person around that time. Super controversial but I feel a big reason is that most games don't demand more power in order to advanced. Sure massive open world games could always use power but most fighting games and action games don't need any more power under the hood to achieve their peak vision.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:40
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Wrong, and short sighted.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:53
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punk rebel ecks posted:Super controversial but I feel a big reason is that most games don't demand more power in order to advanced. Sure massive open world games could always use power but most fighting games and action games don't need any more power under the hood to achieve their peak vision. And part of that reason is consoles: even at stock, a 2500k is faster than the Jaguar-powered PS4 CPU by a considerable margin. Over clocking the 2500k to 4.0+ and beyond and it's not even close. Since most games are built with the intent to run on consoles, that's been a huge limiter in how crazy they can get with stuff, and has kept the 2500k in the game for so long. By comparison, the new consoles are going to have CPU performance about on par with a Ryzen 7 3700X, which is about 5x faster than the 2500k in multi-thread, and about 1.75x faster in single thread. With that sort of power being the "baseline" for new games, I think you'll see that even your fighting games find ways to make use of it.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:54
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orcane posted:Opteron was their first x64 server CPU similar to the Athlon 64, and got a bunch of market share when the Intel options were Xeon furnaces based on Netburst, or Itanium if you wanted 64bit Guess who's company STILL uses Itanium?
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Jul 31, 2020 03:50
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wargames posted:Guess who's company STILL uses Itanium? Itaniums are still shipping, right? Is Intel still taking new orders?
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Jul 31, 2020 04:13
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Twerk from Home posted:Itaniums are still shipping, right? Is Intel still taking new orders? I thought HPE had been just stockpiling them for when Intel stops production end of the year or so. No new orders accepted for chips by intel though.
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Jul 31, 2020 04:20
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https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-to-introduce-new-logos-for-its-core-series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDBq-OU1rHo&t=115s
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Jul 31, 2020 07:06
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SwissArmyDruid posted:https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-to-introduce-new-logos-for-its-core-series I kinda like the new ones, actually. Doesn't do poo poo for their problems right now though! "evo" is the big.LITTLE stuff?
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Jul 31, 2020 07:10
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Those are some painfully early 00s powerpoint slide style logos. Just seems like grasping at straws to me.
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Jul 31, 2020 09:07
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Destroy all marketers
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Jul 31, 2020 13:35
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engineer: "we're losing our enormous lead and have been for three straight years, what do we do sir" ceo: "ha ha marketing department budget go brrrrr"
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Jul 31, 2020 14:03
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They got up to 10th gen, law of marketing says you have to rebrand now. See also: NVidia, ATi.
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Jul 31, 2020 14:18
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movax posted:I kinda like the new ones, actually. Doesn't do poo poo for their problems right now though! This SUCKS. Didn't they bother to notice samsung brands poo poo EVO and now I thought the Core i5 has a SSD in it somehow.
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Jul 31, 2020 14:30
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~Coxy posted:They got up to 10th gen, law of marketing says you have to rebrand now. Also Samsung.
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Jul 31, 2020 14:33
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and mac os
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Jul 31, 2020 14:48
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...then shalt thou count to ten, no more, no less. Ten shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be ten. Nine shalt thou not count, neither count thou eight, excepting that thou then proceed to ten. Eleven is right out! Once the number ten, being the tenth number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Series Renaming towards thy foe, who, being the marketing department, shall go brrrrrr.
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Jul 31, 2020 15:54
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I actually think marketing is very important but I also don't understand what they come up with half the time
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Jul 31, 2020 16:01
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SwissArmyDruid posted:https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-to-introduce-new-logos-for-its-core-series Not as much changing the name as repainting the store's window frame.
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Jul 31, 2020 16:36
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DrDork posted:...then shalt thou count to ten, no more, no less. Ten shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be ten. Nine shalt thou not count, neither count thou eight, excepting that thou then proceed to ten. Eleven is right out! Once the number ten, being the tenth number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Series Renaming towards thy foe, who, being the marketing department, shall go brrrrrr. Three, sir!
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Jul 31, 2020 16:56
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WhyteRyce posted:I actually think marketing is very important but I also don't understand what they come up with half the time High-profile marketing is inevitably tied to fostering a consumer culture to make future marketing even easier. This culture, much like in leadership, can be manipulated to promote unhealthy practices in the name of (the admittedly important) profit, including but not limited to taking advantage of lack of customer knowledge to sell GARBAGE
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Jul 31, 2020 17:30
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Is it time for the MHz war again? Bigger number, better? Works for stonks.
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Jul 31, 2020 17:53
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THERE IS NO WAR BUT THE GAME OF CORES. THERE CAN BE ONLY
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Jul 31, 2020 18:34
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movax posted:Is it time for the MHz war again? Bigger number, better? Works for stonks. The proverbial "noticable" speedup happens at around 700MHz difference on a single-thread, and unless you're stuck on a very old processor like me with my i7-2600, when you upgrade you're just not gonna see that kind of performance increase. IPC is also not a good way to get reliable speedup, because it turns out that for basically all workloads from HPC all the way down to embedded, most CPUs that expose hardware performance monitoring counters end up averaging at around 1IPC over a long enough timescale.
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Jul 31, 2020 18:39
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Twerk from Home posted:Itaniums are still shipping, right? Is Intel still taking new orders? yes priznat posted:I thought HPE had been just stockpiling them for when Intel stops production end of the year or so. and we are buying up some i4s and i6s because once these things break there will be NO replacements. so in about 6-8 years we plan to make away from Itanium
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Jul 31, 2020 19:51
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....ah. So that's how Apple is going to play this. ARMbook rumors: https://hexus.net/tech/news/laptop/144508-apple-macbook-a14x-specs-pricing-launch-date-leaked/ quote:The first MacBook with Arm-inside will have the following specs, according to Komiya:
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Aug 3, 2020 12:37
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They're not even going to bring over the fixed keyboard? Jesus.
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Aug 3, 2020 12:46
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Seems like a certain 'tuber fond of tech tips was right.... they're just gonna drop an ARM chip into something of an existing chassis or with minimal engineering, and watch everyone marvel at what a difference shaving 20W off the TDP makes, shave off $200 to drive early adoption, and make people wonder just exactly why they were paying the extra clams for Intel in the first place.
SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Aug 3, 2020 |
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Aug 3, 2020 12:52
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NewFatMike posted:They're not even going to bring over the fixed keyboard? Jesus. This honestly pisses me off. ANOTHER class action lawsuit inbound.
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Aug 3, 2020 13:59
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Seems like a certain 'tuber fond of tech tips was right.... they're just gonna drop an ARM chip into something of an existing chassis or with minimal engineering, and watch everyone marvel at what a difference shaving 20W off the TDP makes, shave off $200 to drive early adoption, and make people wonder just exactly why they were paying the extra clams for Intel in the first place. Apple revolutionized the world with the iPhone, but a revolution like that doesn't come around very often - especially not from the same company within 2 decades of each other.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:06
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It pains me to see these Apple laptops being so lackluster. It's one thing to conflate form into function, it's another thing to outright reject the basic functionality at high business costs in terms of user unfriendliness, repair costs, etc. I don't see how the heck crap like their keyboard debacle is good business in any way anymore and their business mostly rides upon branding placement rather than product competition.
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Aug 3, 2020 18:25
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