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lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost

Hubis posted:

I have to say that as much as it's been commented that Peter Chan isn't ideal as your only source of bonsai learning, one thing he's really drilled into me is that you aren't going to make much of a bonsai if you aren't willing to cut. Doing all my practicing on red maple sapling that popped up in my yard has also engendered a (possibly foolish) confidence that plants are tougher than it seems so long as you provide appropriate after-care.


True. FWIW I think Peter Chan gets a bad rap, the man is an OG and is at the point where he's free to gently caress around and have a good time with trees. The wisdom he shares is the kind that tends to stick with you (like w the point about the pruning--I've heard him talk about it too).

quote:

- They ship flat-packed in unfolded form, so they are pretty affordable shipping wise (if you buy enough of them at a time)
- When you want to re-pot, you can just unroll the pot rather than having to slip it out (probably critical if they really do generate root mass as well as claimed)
- If you want to store them you can just flat-pack them again
- And if you have enough parts you can recombine the bases and sides to make the dimensions you want on demand.

Hadnt considered all that, that is pretty good.

You mentioning the pond baskets reminded me of a tip someone gave me to use a metal colander. Same principle of course, but they are limited in size.

lil poopendorfer fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jul 28, 2020

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Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Harry Potter on Ice posted:

Saving this name for later thanks

Basically any of the Japanese trained are good folks to follow. Marco Invernizzi, Bjorn Bjorholm, Peter Warren, Tyler Sherrod, Matt Reel, Ryan Neil, Seth Nelson, Kaya Mooney, Julian Tsai, Boon Manakitivipart, Owen Reich, Bob Mahler, Sean Smith, Mark Goodman, Will Valavanis, Danny Coffey, Juan Andrade, etc. There's others I'm forgetting, especially all the Japanese professionals who are also worth a watch.

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jul 29, 2020

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Crocoduck posted:

Basically any of the Japanese trained are good folks to follow. Marco Invernizzi, Bjorn Bjorholm, Peter Warren, Tyler Sherrod, Matt Reel, Ryan Neil, Seth Nelson, Kaya Mooney, Julian Tsai, Boon Manakitivipart, Owen Reich, Bob Mahler, Sean Smith, Mark Goodman, Will Valavanis, Danny Coffey, Juan Andrade, etc. There's others I'm forgetting, especially all the Japanese professionals who are also worth a watch.

I've really been enjoying watching Bjorn Bjorholm's videos lately in particular. Recommend anyone check them out if you haven't already. Information-dense, but very approachable.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Did some pruning last night, applying some of the discussion here.

First, the Satsuki:


I trimmed it down to two branches at the spur. I think I will eventually just keep the rightmost path as the trunk, but I was a little worried about giving the plant too much to heal at once around that big joint, so I'm going to leave it like this until next spring and go from there.


HD Azalea 1:


One of two I showed before, this one seemed to have much finer leaves naturally (despite them both being ostensibly the same species -- cultivar variety!). Keeping the best branches, it kind of ended up being a pretty 2-dimensional "Y" so I just went for it and picked one. We will see how it responds next spring, but I am already thinking it might make a nice windswept tree?


HD Azalea 2:



This one has notably larger leaf size for whatever reason. I know we discussed not worrying about selecting final branches, but this thing seemed to have such a nice, perfect bifurcation that I kind of hated to mess with it. Maybe I'll change my mind later but I decided to keep it as a control for now.

I'm wondering: if I eventually pot it and start restricting root growth, will I begin seeing noticable dwarfing of the leaf size? If so maybe I will aim this for a shohin-sized tree? Or would I just be fighting it's nature too much?


Here's a (non-azalea) HD Rhododendron:


I got this the same time as the azaleas, just because it seemed to have a good trunk. This one will definitely need to get larger to account for it's bigger leaves, so I just went for the best vertical trunk line, aiming for an informal upright (although I'm going to keep an open mind). I feel like the current fork is about where I'd want the first branch, so I need to grow this up quite a bit larger and keep refining that trunk line.

Also holy crap, I never realized how good Rhododendron leaves smell?


Bonus: I got a Gardenia bonsai from Brussels along with the Satsuki. Using some of the advice I went through and did some shaping -- it didn't need nearly as much work:



I did a little bit of silhouette shaping, thinning, and branch selection, but it didn't need a ton of work. The one question I have at this point is that there's a vertical branch right in the center (pictured) that I *think* I might need to remove, but I wasn't sure. Taking it out would leave a bit gap in the canopy, but it might be best to cut it out now and let the other branches grow in?

Harry Potter on Ice
Nov 4, 2006


IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED

Crocoduck posted:

Basically any of the Japanese trained are good folks to follow. Marco Invernizzi, Bjorn Bjorholm, Peter Warren, Tyler Sherrod, Matt Reel, Ryan Neil, Seth Nelson, Kaya Mooney, Julian Tsai, Boon Manakitivipart, Owen Reich, Bob Mahler, Sean Smith, Mark Goodman, Will Valavanis, Danny Coffey, Juan Andrade, etc. There's others I'm forgetting, especially all the Japanese professionals who are also worth a watch.

:eyepop: I am so into this and ready to really start my learning process. It took like 6 years now for me to begin to get comfortable with the basics of horticulture

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

lil poopendorfer posted:

True. FWIW I think Peter Chan gets a bad rap, the man is an OG and is at the point where he's free to gently caress around and have a good time with trees. The wisdom he shares is the kind that tends to stick with you (like w the point about the pruning--I've heard him talk about it too).


Hadnt considered all that, that is pretty good.

You mentioning the pond baskets reminded me of a tip someone gave me to use a metal colander. Same principle of course, but they are limited in size.

Oh BTW, since I mentioned them: here are some of the less common air pot configurations I've seen that I think would be particularly useful for bonsai:



(6" clay pot for scale)

The small one is 4" diameter and 4.5" depth, and the medium and large ones are 9" and 15" in diameter with 3" depth.

The other ones I've been using for growing are the ~1 gal (8"d x 7" h), ~3 gal (9" d x 8" h) and ~5 gal (12" d x 10" h).

I feel like I'd probably use the tiny 4" to propogate, the standard 1gal => 3 gal => 5 gal for growing out, and then the shallow 15" and 9" to develop roots and prepare for final potting.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Speaking of which, came out to find a delightful surprise on the gardenia.
I had also just bought a lot of small pots from someone's grandmother's estate (apparently she was a big member of the Potomac Bonsai Association and a caretaker at the National Arboretum) and they included a little bonus. I think he looks quite at home :3:

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost
I've been on a bit of a Porticularia Afra kick lately, a super cool plant for all kinds of reasons, so I've been scopin out the Home Depots looking for good specimens. Found this bad boy for $19.99, and bought it for the twin trunk tree that was thicker than any of the other P. Afras there.



Slipped it out of the pot and found that the individual rootballs were still intact so it was pretty easy to separate all the plants:



Soaked the P. Afra rootball and ended up with these 8 trees:



Took the biggest one and put it in its own pot and used the rest to pot in the original container as a forest style planting:




I'm not crazy wiht the overall placement. For one, it has an even number of trees which is gonna bug me. For two, I don' think I varied the heights of the trees enough.
Overall though I'm just looking for these to get healthy and develop a good root base in preparation for the next season. The original rootball was pretty tight so I think these were fairly rootbound. Not the healthiest looking plants now that I've got them on my balcony but I think good sun and a good modern soil will have them bounce back in no time.

E: also, I didn't do much pruning on these because they are a bit sickly looking with such small root bases. I'll wait to see some good new growth before I begin to do some heavier pruning, so it's not much to look at right now. Still, considering I have this, AND the original plant I bought this for AND a bunch of other succulents--all for $20?? :hellyeah:

lil poopendorfer fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Aug 1, 2020

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost
Bonus shot of the twin trunk P. Afra that I grabbed. Like the others, not the healthiest looking plant and had a suprisingly small rootbase so I didn't really prune it much. Once it gets some color to it and that rootbase grows out I think this one will turn out real nice.




And then some other smaller--but much healthier looking--P. Afras that I had broken up from a different nursery pot lmao. Like I said, I've been into them lately hahaha


lil poopendorfer fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Aug 2, 2020

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
Styling some trees for a client (he pays me in beer). Would people be interested in how to do heavy bends on a pine, or is that old hat?

Harry Potter on Ice
Nov 4, 2006


IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED

Crocoduck posted:

Styling some trees for a client (he pays me in beer). Would people be interested in how to do heavy bends on a pine, or is that old hat?

Yea no doubt, I would love to see some real work

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Crocoduck posted:

Styling some trees for a client (he pays me in beer). Would people be interested in how to do heavy bends on a pine, or is that old hat?

Everything is exciting when you have no idea what you are doing like me! :downs:

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

lil poopendorfer posted:

I've been on a bit of a Porticularia Afra kick lately, a super cool plant for all kinds of reasons, so I've been scopin out the Home Depots looking for good specimens. Found this bad boy for $19.99, and bought it for the twin trunk tree that was thicker than any of the other P. Afras there.



Slipped it out of the pot and found that the individual rootballs were still intact so it was pretty easy to separate all the plants:



Soaked the P. Afra rootball and ended up with these 8 trees:



Took the biggest one and put it in its own pot and used the rest to pot in the original container as a forest style planting:




I'm not crazy wiht the overall placement. For one, it has an even number of trees which is gonna bug me. For two, I don' think I varied the heights of the trees enough.
Overall though I'm just looking for these to get healthy and develop a good root base in preparation for the next season. The original rootball was pretty tight so I think these were fairly rootbound. Not the healthiest looking plants now that I've got them on my balcony but I think good sun and a good modern soil will have them bounce back in no time.

E: also, I didn't do much pruning on these because they are a bit sickly looking with such small root bases. I'll wait to see some good new growth before I begin to do some heavier pruning, so it's not much to look at right now. Still, considering I have this, AND the original plant I bought this for AND a bunch of other succulents--all for $20?? :hellyeah:

Ok yeah, I'm going to have to keep an eye out for some p. Afra. I was just reading about how well suited it is for a beginner species, and I've already been looking for a few potential indoor specimins for the winter months.

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost
Yes, they are easily available and are a super cool plant:

-grows quickly and backbuds easily
-propagates like crazy
-sequesters carbon very efficiently
-leaves are edible (i guess they make a salad with them in S. Africa)
-Will grow indoors during winter
-inexpensive
-Doesnt need daily watering

Elephants graze on them and that makes them backbud, and then any stalks that fall on the ground will root and become new plants. Also called a spekboom, or "pork fat" bush.

This guy was the inspiration for me, he grows only P. Afras and his are all so gorgeous:
https://www.instagram.com/littlejadebonsai/

e: oh and they are good to give to friends since you'll end up with extra plants and they are easy to take care of. Really just an incredible plant, get one you'll love it!

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost

Crocoduck posted:

Styling some trees for a client (he pays me in beer). Would people be interested in how to do heavy bends on a pine, or is that old hat?

Yes please!!

Harry Potter on Ice
Nov 4, 2006


IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED
Haha I went through this exact jade obsession in my plant growing development.

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost
:D I resisted as long as I could

Ok here's some work on a REAL tree .. pruned my Gmelina Philippensis back, which was way overdue. Looked like a shrub more than a proper tree




There's a hole in the front that I want to fill in so I left a couple branches longer to be wired later. Also I'm looking to expand the size of the canopy a bit so I cut the branches one node longer than I would have normally. Semi-Finished product:



Saved the cuttings and put them in a jar of willow water in the hopes that they'll root :cool:

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016


Not a Dickman, just a shape
Huh, I have some of that randomly in my backyard

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!
It’s finally looking like it’s going to cool off a bit so I’m thinking it’s as good a time as any to repot my azaleas from nursery pots into trainers.

I was going to use my usual potting mix but that’s super organic/water heavy (like mainly sphagnum) which seems to have worked on my trees in summer because of how dry and hot it’s been (we’ll have to keep an eye on them going forward) and then I thought about using cactus mix to save money but now I think I actually want to do this as correctly as possible so as to not stress or harm or kill my plants. Also if I ever want to show or board them I don’t want people to laugh at my scrub ways.

So perlite. How adequate of a kanuma replacement is it? Would a 40% sphagnum/organic potting soil 60% perlite mixture make a decent azalea substrate?

Should I repot my healthy picea, juniper, and somewhat-less-healthy ficus in a similar mix?

The current substrate all my trees are in is very moss-heavy. Probably like 70-80% organic and 20-30% nice soil. It’s very rich, premium stuff, but it’s not the best draining. It’s probably saved me from scorching these guys during summer but there are 3 other seasons to contend with here in MA (or at least winter and mud seasons).

trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Aug 3, 2020

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!
Also- thoughts on getting ahold of pumice and/or turface?

I wanna pot these suckers right.

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost
I dont really like perlite, it's too light and always ends up floating to the top of my soil, leaving the bottom without any. It has poor cation exchange capacity, so it doesnt retain any nutrients for the tree to take up.

I'd recommend increasing the inorganic component of your soil. 75% inorganic, 25% organic seems pretty middle of the range.

Two parts akadama, one part lava rock or pumice 1/4" size, and one part chopped pine bark 1/4" size is what comes in a lot of pre-made bonsai soils. If you wanna make it yourself on the cheap, you can do:

Two parts Oil Dry from NAPA (part #8822), wash out the really small stuff
One part crushed brick/clay, sifted to 1/4"
One part Miracle Grow Orchid Mix, chopped/sifted to 1/4"

All that should get you like 20 gallons of soil for less than $20

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

lil poopendorfer posted:

I dont really like perlite, it's too light and always ends up floating to the top of my soil, leaving the bottom without any. It has poor cation exchange capacity, so it doesnt retain any nutrients for the tree to take up.

I'd recommend increasing the inorganic component of your soil. 75% inorganic, 25% organic seems pretty middle of the range.

Two parts akadama, one part lava rock or pumice 1/4" size, and one part chopped pine bark 1/4" size is what comes in a lot of pre-made bonsai soils. If you wanna make it yourself on the cheap, you can do:

Two parts Oil Dry from NAPA (part #8822), wash out the really small stuff
One part crushed brick/clay, sifted to 1/4"
One part Miracle Grow Orchid Mix, chopped/sifted to 1/4"

All that should get you like 20 gallons of soil for less than $20

Cool. Going by your recipe, can I swap the crushed clay for bio-balls (expanded clay) and/or pumice? I seem to have an easier shot of getting pumice for whatever reason. There’s a NAPA in my neck of the woods so the DE shouldn’t be too hard to get.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
I've had my best luck eschewing organics altogether. The difference in root systems is fantastic. You've got to play around a bit more with your yard, the amount of sun, and the amount of watering you do, etc., but 1 part akadama, 1 part pumice, 1 part lava rock is a golden recipe for me.

Harry Potter on Ice
Nov 4, 2006


IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED

Crocoduck posted:

I've had my best luck eschewing organics altogether. The difference in root systems is fantastic. You've got to play around a bit more with your yard, the amount of sun, and the amount of watering you do, etc., but 1 part akadama, 1 part pumice, 1 part lava rock is a golden recipe for me.

Is there a post of yours where you've talked more about this and any feeding you do or is it as "simple" (I get that it isnt) as this post makes me think it is? This recipe sounds pretty great and cutting out organics is appealing

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Harry Potter on Ice posted:

Is there a post of yours where you've talked more about this and any feeding you do or is it as "simple" (I get that it isnt) as this post makes me think it is? This recipe sounds pretty great and cutting out organics is appealing

The problem with feeding is salts can build up in soil and then dehydrate your trees. The beautiful part of inorganic soil is you can fertilize HEAVY and just wash the salts out every time you water. I do solid ferts once or twice a month (not right now, too hot) and then liquid ferts every week. Fish oil is great as both a spray on foliage or in the water you use.

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost

Ok Comboomer posted:

Cool. Going by your recipe, can I swap the crushed clay for bio-balls (expanded clay) and/or pumice? I seem to have an easier shot of getting pumice for whatever reason. There’s a NAPA in my neck of the woods so the DE shouldn’t be too hard to get.

Pumice would be the best choice, totally! Availability varies by region, and here in the midwest it's not really available like it is on the west coast or in your area.

My understanding of the matter is inorganics like akadama, kanuma, and DE are the moisture-retaining substrates, and substrates like lava rock, pumice, perlite, clay promote aeration. Tweak the ratios depending on your climate and the trees watering needs.

Crocoduck posted:

I've had my best luck eschewing organics altogether. The difference in root systems is fantastic. You've got to play around a bit more with your yard, the amount of sun, and the amount of watering you do, etc., but 1 part akadama, 1 part pumice, 1 part lava rock is a golden recipe for me.

I wanted to do some comparisons next year with strictly inorganic vs my current ratio (10-20% pine bark). I dont use solid fertilizers so I feel like the pine bark helps to take up and release nutrients for the tree. Plus it really seems to promote fine feeder root growth, I always find roots growing through the chunks of bark

Not my photos but the same effect:

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Ok Comboomer posted:

Also- thoughts on getting ahold of pumice and/or turface?

I wanna pot these suckers right.

You can get a 50LB bag of Turface MVP for $40 from DoMyOwn.com. I found that after screening it's maybe 20-30% fines.

If you find a landscape/irrigation supply company or retail outlet that has it nearby you can get it for more like $15-25 per bag.

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost
Stop me if you've heard this one before - I went to the nursery, just to have a look :D

Anyways found this nice jade with well developed trunk and primary & secondary branching for an excellent price:


Not sure if it's a "cork bark" jade or if it's just old, either way it was an awesome price and I couldn't pass it up. The root structure was interesting, looks like the original taproot or whatever got majorly rootbound and circled around so it kind of looks like one of those mallsai ficuses. I got nervous about cutting too much of the thick root off with the summer winding down so I barerooted it and took like 10% of it off. At the start of next summer I'll look into cutting it all off and regrowing some decent nebari but I figure I probably have like another 6 weeks of consistent summer weather before I have to take it inside so I wanted to play it safe.

As for pots I feel like a 10" would have been perfect but I was stuck between 8" and 12" so I went for a deeper 8". I had to cram it in and some of the roots are poking out but I think it'll look proportionate with some pruning/shaping.



Unfortunately I found out that my lovely cheapo bonsai pot does NOT have a removable humidity tray so I'm stuck with this gaudy thing stuck to it for now :negative:

Anyways, I'm gonna let it rest for a week or two before wiring it up and pruning the long shoots.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

lil poopendorfer posted:

Pumice would be the best choice, totally! Availability varies by region, and here in the midwest it's not really available like it is on the west coast or in your area.

My understanding of the matter is inorganics like akadama, kanuma, and DE are the moisture-retaining substrates, and substrates like lava rock, pumice, perlite, clay promote aeration. Tweak the ratios depending on your climate and the trees watering needs.


I wanted to do some comparisons next year with strictly inorganic vs my current ratio (10-20% pine bark). I dont use solid fertilizers so I feel like the pine bark helps to take up and release nutrients for the tree. Plus it really seems to promote fine feeder root growth, I always find roots growing through the chunks of bark

Not my photos but the same effect:



I'd be interested in the comparison, especially across a variety of species. It's not just moisture retention, but cation exchange capacity, which... to my understanding is just how much plant food they take up and spit out. There are likely a number of people screaming in horror about this description and I'm completely willing to admit my lack of knowledge. The method I've been taught is - 1) upon collection, plant in complete pumice - your goal is just strong root growth away from the poo poo muck that the plant was growing in before. 2) Following year repot 50% into boon's mix (or whatever you want to call it, that's a bit political) of 1/3 pumice, 1/3 lava, 1/3 akadama. The lava collects more moisture than the pumice, the akadama collects the fertilizer. I could be operating under misconceptions though.

Solid fertilizers are really, really, really convenient dude. Being able to hit each of your trees once every 2-4 weeks is awesome, but I don't know how big your collection is. Liquid ferts wash out very quickly - I've seen best growth with a combination of liquids (foliar spray and root drench) and solids, but I've got too many trees at this point to futz with them everyday. Biogold, sumocakes, and superfly's OOF are all good options if you decide to go that route.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

lil poopendorfer posted:

Stop me if you've heard this one before - I went to the nursery, just to have a look :D

Nice find! I'm not the biggest fan of jade, but they can make really nice trees if you get past the bark and leaf shape (just my opinion). I think yours is really great bonsai stock! I'd select a trunk line for it and chop the other just to develop taper and such.

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost

Crocoduck posted:

I'd be interested in the comparison, especially across a variety of species. It's not just moisture retention, but cation exchange capacity, which... to my understanding is just how much plant food they take up and spit out. There are likely a number of people screaming in horror about this description and I'm completely willing to admit my lack of knowledge. The method I've been taught is - 1) upon collection, plant in complete pumice - your goal is just strong root growth away from the poo poo muck that the plant was growing in before. 2) Following year repot 50% into boon's mix (or whatever you want to call it, that's a bit political) of 1/3 pumice, 1/3 lava, 1/3 akadama. The lava collects more moisture than the pumice, the akadama collects the fertilizer. I could be operating under misconceptions though.

Solid fertilizers are really, really, really convenient dude. Being able to hit each of your trees once every 2-4 weeks is awesome, but I don't know how big your collection is. Liquid ferts wash out very quickly - I've seen best growth with a combination of liquids (foliar spray and root drench) and solids, but I've got too many trees at this point to futz with them everyday. Biogold, sumocakes, and superfly's OOF are all good options if you decide to go that route.

My understanding is that CEC refers to the ability of the medium to "hold" on to the positive ions that nourish the plant: K+, NH4+, etc. I believe it's related to the amount of organic substance involved in the formation of the material. Akadama, bark, and DE have very high CEC, which makes sense as they all come from organic-ish sources. Perlite is almost zero. Pumice, vermiculate, scoria are kinda middle of the road.

Does any of this matter? Who knows lol, but what else is there to do but quibble over minutiae when you're waiting for your trees to grow :D

Seems like you do mostly conifers which I know are much more sensitive, especially when it comes to the roots. I have zero conifers - too delicate for me at the moment.

The way I've been doing it now is a 1/4 dose Peters 20-20-20 every other day. Just put it in my watering can so not a big deal. 1tsp kelp powder/gallon to roots and foliage every week to promote branching but I'm gonna stop that now. I think next year I'm gonna do the teabags or cages and then ease off on the liquid fertilizer maybe.

When you do foliar spray, do you do anything different for that or do you just make sure to water the leaves with your fertilzer solution?

lil poopendorfer fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Aug 8, 2020

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost
And I just wanted to make a disclaimer - I'm not nearly as experienced as you. I've only been serious about it for a year now, started off with a gifted Chinese Elm 3 years ago that I didnt do much with. So most of my info is secondhand, from other growers that I've been talking to and asking for help, not from personal trial and error.

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost
In other bonsai updates, I thought I'd give LECA balls a try as an inorganic substrate to slip pot my Snowdrift crabapple. Took it out of its one gallon pot, teased the hard packed roots loose just a bit and plopped it in a large hydroponic bucket with LECA balls and 10% peat moss fines. I'm hoping this will serve to "air prune" the roots and promote fine feeder roots with the plan to transition it to a bonsai pot in a year maybe. The trunk is a little thin but it's got tremendous movement and branching.




I'm really digging the idea of crabapple bonsai. The trunks have a tendency to get ugly in just the right way. Not so much the traditional Japanese bonsai but more of the naturalistic Western bonsai. Beautiful springtime flowers And in the fall when they drop their leaves and you have the bare, twisted trunk displaying the bright fruit, it's just incredible.




I have this Snowdrift and a Sugar Tyme, both from Evergreen Gardenworks and I'm gonna see if I can find a bigger crabapple during the end-of-season sales.The Sugar Tyme is a little thin so I think it's probably 2-3 years from being ready for a bonsai pot. Still, this one already has many apples and I wanted to display it when they ripen so I put it in this nice looking glazed pot.



On an aside, please allow me to recommend Evergreen Gardenworks if you plan on buying any pre-bonsai. He grows his trees with bonsai in mind, pruning and chopping as they grow so they develop nicer than the nursery-stock trees. I bought both of these trees in 1 gallon pots for $35 each two months ago and as you can see they are both nice specimens with plenty of potential. I plan on buying most of my pre-bonsai through there, much rather pay a little more than frustrate myself with sub-par stock.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

lil poopendorfer posted:

My understanding is that CEC refers to the ability of the medium to "hold" on to the positive ions that nourish the plant: K+, NH4+, etc. I believe it's related to the amount of organic substance involved in the formation of the material. Akadama, bark, and DE have very high CEC, which makes sense as they all come from organic-ish sources. Perlite is almost zero. Pumice, vermiculate, scoria are kinda middle of the road.

Pretty sure akadama is just fired clay collected from a region of Japan. I've always heard it referred to as an inorganic.

quote:

Does any of this matter? Who knows lol, but what else is there to do but quibble over minutiae when you're waiting for your trees to grow :D

Seems like you do mostly conifers which I know are much more sensitive, especially when it comes to the roots. I have zero conifers - too delicate for me at the moment.

It's not that they're delicate so much as when they go, they go fast and you've got to be pretty attentive to see signs that they're going before they crash.

quote:

The way I've been doing it now is a 1/4 dose Peters 20-20-20 every other day. Just put it in my watering can so not a big deal. 1tsp kelp powder/gallon to roots and foliage every week to promote branching but I'm gonna stop that now. I think next year I'm gonna do the teabags or cages and then ease off on the liquid fertilizer maybe.

When you do foliar spray, do you do anything different for that or do you just make sure to water the leaves with your fertilzer solution?

Yup, just mist them with the solutions.

quote:

And I just wanted to make a disclaimer - I'm not nearly as experienced as you. I've only been serious about it for a year now, started off with a gifted Chinese Elm 3 years ago that I didnt do much with. So most of my info is secondhand, from other growers that I've been talking to and asking for help, not from personal trial and error.

I'm still learning from everyone and feel like a beginner. :coolfish:

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
The LECA / "Hydroton" looks interesting, please post updates!

My concern is that the effective granule size being so coarse means it won't hold onto very much moisture at all, so you'd have to be watering it maybe multiple times a day depending on climate? I know they are popular in hydroponics, but there you are looking at Flood + Drain or Deep Water Culture, which is effectively the same as constant watering?

Actually, using DWC for bonsai development seems really interesting now that I think about it...

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost

Crocoduck posted:

Pretty sure akadama is just fired clay collected from a region of Japan. I've always heard it referred to as an inorganic.



Organic isn't the right word, maybe "rich"? IDK but the clay imbues it with all sorts of negatively charged minerals that hold onto the nutrients in the form of positive ions, to be released later.


Hubis posted:

The LECA / "Hydroton" looks interesting, please post updates!

My concern is that the effective granule size being so coarse means it won't hold onto very much moisture at all, so you'd have to be watering it maybe multiple times a day depending on climate? I know they are popular in hydroponics, but there you are looking at Flood + Drain or Deep Water Culture, which is effectively the same as constant watering?

Actually, using DWC for bonsai development seems really interesting now that I think about it...

I'm in the Midwest so it's not too hot here and with shelter-in-place, I'm grateful for any excuse to spend more time with my trees so the extra watering needs is a bonus IMO :D

If I notice the tree struggling from lack of water, I can throw the whole pot in a bigger pot with a wetter medium OR I would even consider placing it in a 5-gallon bucket like a real hydroponic setup to reduce evaporation from the bottom. From what I've noticed so far, they seem to take up much more water when they are moist then when they are dry. So I'll water it, wait, water again, wait, and then water again.

I got the idea from a poster on a different bonsai forum who uses this growing medium with all of his trees:


These balls are a bit big but I think it'll work just fine :cool:

Hydroponics is a possibility for some trees. This guy really made it work:
https://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/Hydroponics.html

But I think ebb-n-flow is probably the only viable option, a true DWC tree of much size would develop a root system that probably wouldn't survive repotting in traditional media.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
I may have to do my annual collection of maple saplings next year and throw them in some net pots just to see how they grow in a DWC system. Of course, then there's the question of how you overwinter them... Maybe better for a tropical species that I bring indoor?

Anyways, interesting thoughts, fun experiments to try! Between all the constrained growth, layering, grafting, etc. bonsai feels a little like "The Island of Dr. Moreau"...

E: here is an interesting thread

Hubis fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Aug 9, 2020

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!
My local HD has some really lovely looking blue star junipers and boxwoods in, and it got me thinking about trying some planting and styling techniques that I was too intimidated/didn’t have adequate plants for in the winter/spring.

If I pick up some plants now or during the end-of-season, can I repot and do major styling to them at the end of summer/fall? Could I start trimming branches and doing initial shaping? I imagine that the hottest days of the year will be largely behind us shortly but we’ll have about 9-12 weeks of pretty mild weather before stuff starts to really cool down (I’m in New England). Should I wait until late winter/early spring to do the initial shapes?

Should I buy 1-2 cheap trees now or wait until the holidays? Like I said, I’m looking at junipers and boxwood.

Also thinking about harvesting a couple of the feral invasive Forsythia that populate the woods behind my parents’ house around Labor Day.

I’m also waiting until we stop getting daily 90+ degree days before I repot my azaleas. I’m frankly pretty thrilled with how they look at the moment, still in their nursery pots. They’ve come a long way from the ragged $6 bushes I got back in April. Definitely getting rootbound in those nursery pots tho. Good plan? Bad plan? I asked about soil mix last week and got together the necessary ingredients (pumice arrived today) but I want to make sure I do this right and don’t gently caress my plants up.

trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Aug 13, 2020

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
Bad plan, bad plan, bad plan. To everything, there is a season and this season is not for that poo poo.

Buy junipers now if they're a good deal. If you're in the Northern hemisphere, now is summer dormancy, too hot to do anything except work on pines. In a few weeks you can get back to styling junis and anything else during the fall. Repotting though is tricky, that should not be done now but in the spring/early summer.

Azalea are ideally repotted right after they flower. That should have been a few weeks ago.

Harvesting forsythia, yes, yes, yes. Do that.

Edit: Not trying to be a dick. If you just Leeroy Jenkins it, you might be ok, but there's less chance of success.

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Aug 13, 2020

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trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Crocoduck posted:

Bad plan, bad plan, bad plan. To everything, there is a season and this season is not for that poo poo.

Buy junipers now if they're a good deal. If you're in the Northern hemisphere, now is summer dormancy, too hot to do anything except work on pines. In a few weeks you can get back to styling junis and anything else during the fall. Repotting though is tricky, that should not be done now but in the spring/early summer.

Azalea are ideally repotted right after they flower. That should have been a few weeks ago.

Harvesting forsythia, yes, yes, yes. Do that.

Edit: Not trying to be a dick. If you just Leeroy Jenkins it, you might be ok, but there's less chance of success.

No, no worries— that’s exactly the straight talk I was looking for.

I would’ve repotted my azaleas right after flowering but they flowered in early-to-mid-June, during the riots and during the first big heatwave of the summer. Not only was I distracted for a big part of that window, I felt like it was maybe too hot and dry to safely do it then, or right afterward

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