|
are low industry nations like Spain and Communist China best of forgoing artillery support on their infantry divisions entirely early on?
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 15:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 17:34 |
|
|
For me it's things like supply optimization, naval warfare, and other experiments (e.g. spies, templates, research/doctrines, etc.) that make me decide that I will restart. Even if a game is going 'my way' I still tend to quit at or by 1942.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 15:53
|
|
|
Pvt.Scott posted:My typical chill sesh of HOI4 is “prevent the rape of Nanking and drive the Imperialists into the sea,” if I’m just looking to zone out. I play as the Chinas so much that I can just pay half-attention to the war while listening to podcasts and loving around with other things. If I wanna play tower defense, I play Czechoslovakia, and I play Italy or France if I want to fight in a big boy war. That’s my standard rotation. If you like playing China this much i heartily recommend you give Kaiserreich a try
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 16:10
|
|
|
Fuligin posted:If you like playing China this much i heartily recommend you give Kaiserreich a try Noted. Been meaning to check out more mods eventually.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 16:25
|
|
|
Lots of interesting things going on in KR China.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 17:10
|
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:are low industry nations like Spain and Communist China best of forgoing artillery support on their infantry divisions entirely early on? Support artillery is really efficient, everyone should have it everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 17:22
|
|
|
I understand that the most effective defensive infantry division is just pure infantry. Is there any situation where you want other brigades in your infantry divisions?
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 17:31
|
|
|
Gort posted:Support artillery is really efficient, everyone should have it everywhere. I feel it’s not really worth the industry until the second tier arty model. The extra defense and soft attack is nice and all, but the raw organization you lose is the more important stat for holding a line at the start. I’ve got infantry equipment and planes (or AA) to build first. Then I can think about arty, trucks and support equipment. Then maybe light tanks, but probably just more planes and rifles. Going heavy on CAS and Fighters as early China is hilarious, because the Japanese Air Force is in no way prepared for it (except the one time they showed up with like 2k planes somehow). Please, assault Beijing some more. My pilots have plenty of bombs and bullets to give you. On the subject of CAS, I stumbled on this article yesterday https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/8qxzyv/low-and-slow TL;DR USA’s current airpower is hilariously ineffective for fighting any of the wars we’ve been in for a very long time. Prop planes would cost a tiny fraction of our current planes to manufacture and maintain, be vastly more effective and cause far less US casualties. Lol at fighter jets being only able to remain on station for 20 minutes or less. Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Aug 4, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 17:40
|
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:I understand that the most effective defensive infantry division is just pure infantry. Is there any situation where you want other brigades in your infantry divisions? "efficient" is based on what your actual limitations are. Communist China has limited industry but tons of manpower, so absolutely go full infantry for brigades. Human life is cheap, artillery cannon aren't. Denmark, by comparison, can definitely use line units of pure artillery; they have the industry to afford it and are limited by manpower, so the higher industry/lower manpower option of line arty units makes sense for them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 17:42
|
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:I understand that the most effective defensive infantry division is just pure infantry. Is there any situation where you want other brigades in your infantry divisions? If you’re gonna be dug in for a long time, but not so dug in that the enemy refuses to assault you, some line artillery mixed in will help shorten the war by grinding the attacker’s manpower and equipment to dust. If you just need guys to walk behind your tank/motorized spearhead and take up space, they’d probably be better off with support AA or AT to blunt armored assaults.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 17:45
|
|
|
im thinking of maximizing my Spain start, manpower ends up not being as big of an issue, but laack of industry is. you do get a decision every 20 days or so that gives you 1k inf. eq. though so maybe I should just be focusing on artillery/support production and getting all my guns from Canto Bight.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 17:47
|
|
|
Pvt.Scott posted:
Thats literally what drones are for though-- and those can stay on station longer than a manned plane, without risking a pilot at all, and are even cheaper.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 17:48
|
|
|
OctaMurk posted:Thats literally what drones are for though-- and those can stay on station longer than a manned plane, without risking a pilot at all, and are even cheaper. As the article says, drones are actually pretty meh at that job. Part of the problem is that the payloads are too big to be used for proper CAS. Another problem is the limited field of view on the cameras making friend-foe identification difficult. One example given was a unit that had infrared beacons to mark themselves as friendly, but the support planes were far too high to see them. It can take longer trying to make sure a support drone doesn’t blow your team up than it would to have a Sopwith Camel with a grenade and a pistol show up to do something useful. E: really, the point is that A-10 Warthogs are just the best Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Aug 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 17:53
|
|
|
Pvt.Scott posted:As the article says, drones are actually pretty meh at that job. Part of the problem is that the payloads are too big to be used for proper CAS. Another problem is the limited field of view on the cameras making friend-foe identification difficult. One example given was a unit that had infrared beacons to mark themselves as friendly, but the support planes were far too high to see them. So, having a person physically be in the plane does not improve that at all, pretty much all close air support is done using targeting pods with cameras similar to those on drones because trying to do that poo poo with your eyeballs leaves a vastly higher room for error. The prop planes we send to do close air support are generally using the same sensors and the same cameras as equipped on drones. If the drone is too high, lower its altitude? If you need close air support done so close that you do need a person with eyeballs in the cockpit, the answer is still not a prop plane. Its an attack helicopter. Also, the payloads are too big? Just design the drone to whatever payload is required. If the problem is that the drones dont have enough payload, then build bigger drones. Turkey is building two engine drones that can carry 1000lb bombs, you can build them bigger than that even.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 18:02
|
|
|
Pretty sure the American military is first and foremost designed to act as a place for the defense industry to make money.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 18:10
|
|
|
AA in your infantry divisions is underrated given it not only helps mitigate air inferiority but also has piercing. Plus they are super cheap to make especially in comparison to AT and even Arty.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 18:11
|
|
|
My Soviet boys are 10-inf with Art, Eng, and AA add-ons and they stop the Nazi charge easily.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 18:22
|
|
|
OctaMurk posted:So, having a person physically be in the plane does not improve that at all, pretty much all close air support is done using targeting pods with cameras similar to those on drones because trying to do that poo poo with your eyeballs leaves a vastly higher room for error. The prop planes we send to do close air support are generally using the same sensors and the same cameras as equipped on drones. If the drone is too high, lower its altitude? Otoh, Iran's been able to just literally steal CIA drones out of the air in the past. Can't do that with a pilot.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 19:20
|
|
|
WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Otoh, Iran's been able to just literally steal CIA drones out of the air in the past. Can't do that with a pilot. Sure but the point is that you still wouldnt send a guy in a prop plane to spy on iran. It would either be a drone that is expendable, or a jet that is vastly more survivable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 19:56
|
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:yeah i think i have my PP expenditure pretty well optimised, i keep a calculator handy to make sure i'm optimally boosting garrisons for this purpose. I guess my issue comes at the same time as yours, the second split seems to be a pretty random reshuffling in a lot of ways. Is there something I'm missing there? I gotta chime in and say be careful about the garrison boosting. Your priorities should be Delay Decisions above all else. Always have enough PP at the end of a delay decision to immediately take another delay decision. You absolutely want to make sure you finish your pre-war focuses and kick things off that way rather than letting the Nationalists kick things off early. Feedback Gaming did an excellent two-part Anarchist Civil War video going over the war from the Anarchist perspective (and then also doing world conquest as the anarchists  ).Boosting garrisons unnecessarily is a trap, and I've had the most success in succeeding at what FBG was trying to do in splitting the nationalist territory and linking up with the two northern ports. Split them in the opening week, and gobble up the remains of eastern Spain once their units deorg. Delay the war, bumrush focuses, and take advantage of front line gaps to make cheeky encirclements before the front lines solidify. My last game I had the Nationalists locked in Galacia months before the Republican crackdown. If you're doing Anarchy, use the lady with the Adaptable trait and bank PP to get your Infantry Genius as soon as you flip Anarchist, then roll over everyone as a worldwide riot. It's great. Just uh... Don't get into the situation I got into where Portugal gets eaten by Fascist Britain and it becomes impossible for you to go down the focus tree because the Portuguese anarchists don't technically own the states until divvied up in the peace conference.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 20:31
|
|
|
If you're playing a warlord, Qing, or ComChi, it's highly advisable to build CAS and Fighters over arty because the Nationalists never build enough air to be a serious threat. I was able to utterly trounce the Nationalists as Qing with an army half their size because I was getting 70.0 air support ticks in combat. It's also advisable to use China's wonky province borders to encircle divisions. It makes fighting the Nationalists a lot easier when you can just encircle fifty divisions from the first days of the war. Also, airfields are only 1250 civ industry points a piece, so building them quickly is a piece of cake.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 20:39
|
|
|
how exactly do you get 'nobody expects' in the current patch? i went with franco but despite being 50/50 fascist/non aligned i appear to be stuck non aligned and u need to be fascist for it edit: nvm, as always with these things the button popped up when i made the post
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 20:46
|
|
|
OctaMurk posted:So, having a person physically be in the plane does not improve that at all, pretty much all close air support is done using targeting pods with cameras similar to those on drones because trying to do that poo poo with your eyeballs leaves a vastly higher room for error. The prop planes we send to do close air support are generally using the same sensors and the same cameras as equipped on drones. If the drone is too high, lower its altitude? I just want more brrrrraaaappp in the world
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 21:11
|
|
|
If you take unity government path as Communist China you can easily annex the Nationalists without firing a shot, while still being Socialist enough to join the Comintern. Ofcourse you can end up in a situation like my playthrough where the little warlords will be a part of the same United Front faction as you and if you kick them out to declare war they'll likely join a new faction, making unification a pain.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 21:12
|
|
|
Formed the USSR as Tyumen and got Khrushchev in charge in TNO last night. LBJ ended up as president and Germany nuked itself after the civil war dragged on too long. Half the world is in the Socintern. Lenin would be so proud 
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 23:11
|
|
|
dialhforhero posted:AA in your infantry divisions is underrated given it not only helps mitigate air inferiority but also has piercing. Plus they are super cheap to make especially in comparison to AT and even Arty.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2020 23:59
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:I seem to recall the Nationalists start with basic AA unlocked now, don't they? That's something to keep in mind. Yeah, they start with AA which is funny, since they have to research its required parent technology from scratch, lol. Like, is there a historical reason to give them AA production ability at the start, but not Great War arty? E: from a mechanical standpoint, it’s a fine decision, I’m just wondering if there was a historical justification for it. Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Aug 4, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 00:01
|
|
|
Byzantine posted:My Soviet boys are 10-inf with Art, Eng, and AA add-ons and they stop the Nazi charge easily. If you go superior firepower and take the path that adds org and soft attack to support units, MPs are like an extra infantry brigade that takes up no combat width in exchange for support equipment. Depending on your production setup, that might be a useful force multiplier. E:probably most useful in a 5-inf unit, tho
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 00:14
|
|
|
Pvt.Scott posted:Yeah, they start with AA which is funny, since they have to research its required parent technology from scratch, lol. Like, is there a historical reason to give them AA production ability at the start, but not Great War arty? Oh hey, was browsing the wiki and it turns out they quietly added a way to peacefully annex a bunch of the pacific islands as New Zealand (while still staying historical, even!). Might be a fun gimmick game - you can apparently sent volunteers as NZ early, too?
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 00:44
|
|
|
Pvt.Scott posted:If you go superior firepower and take the path that adds org and soft attack to support units, MPs are like an extra infantry brigade that takes up no combat width in exchange for support equipment. Depending on your production setup, that might be a useful force multiplier. I usually go down Mass Assault because why not, but might give SF a try this next go-round.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 01:53
|
|
|
played a co-op game as Anarchist Spain with my buddy doing French commune. He ended up sending me like 20k infantry equipment after he disbanded his army before his civil war. Crushed the fascists with minimal casualties. Feels good. Onwards to Britain. Going to start a football riot that ends the concept of states.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 03:25
|
|
|
Pvt.Scott posted:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/8qxzyv/low-and-slow Vice.com is not an authoritative source on military matters. The whole "the crew might have noticed by looking" thing... doesn't really work IRL. Modern-day sensor packages at 20k feet outperform the human eyeball at 200, and that's before taking into account that trying to not crash a plane while flying at 200 feet can take up a decent amount of attention. Hell, even the A-10 isn't actually disputing that anymore - targeting pods have been a mandatory part of every operational loadout for the A-10 for something like 20 years now, and doctrine is to use the drat pod to aquire targets, not your eyeballs. And funnily enough, the perhaps most effective and well-liked CAS plattform in Afghanistan has been... the B-1. Because it can just loiter around at high altitude for hours, sprint into position quickly and then drop JDAMs and keep dropping JDAMs long after anything else but a B-52 would need to RTB for more bombs. The article even goes into this (or rather, tries to skirt around it because it kinda runs counter to their whole narrative) with how that B-52 was on a 30-hours round trip. Most of that "trip" would have been loitering over Afghanistan waiting for someone to call for a bomb delivery. Also, I don't know of any currently in service fighter jet that can only remain on station for 20 minutes unless you're flying it out to the edge of its operational range. This whole obsession with cost-effectiveness also completely ignores that US strategic needs aren't limited to bombing third-world guerillas. And that as a rule the highly-trained pilot is the most expensive (and often by far most expensive) part of modern military planes, which kinda ruins the idea of having lots and lots of "cheap" planes. Add in the additional logistical burdens of yet another airframe type and your "cheap" CAS plane ends up penny-wise and pound-foolish. And them harping on friendly fire incidents conveniently ignores that "low and slow" gun runs and dumb bomb/rocket drops are overall a hell of a lot more likely to produce blue-on-blue in practice. It's one of the major reasons why drat near everyone is jumping on the PGM train as much as they can. (The other being that they're a lot more effective under combat conditions and actually vastly more cost-efficient than using dumb munitions and relying on the law of averages.) A-10 gun runs have a larger effective danger close radius than smaller-end JDAMs. Let alone Mavericks, SDBs or Hellfires. Read it all and wow, it actually tries to cite Pierre loving Sprey as a worthwhile source. I'm dead. Like, Jesus, you could make a "bad pop culture opinions about modern airpower" bingo card and this article would drat near fill out every single box. (Not to mention this whole obsession about a 50-year-old relic that was pushing obsolescence within 10 years of entering service already.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 03:29
|
|
|
The Chad A-10 Warthog vs the Virgin F-35 Defender
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 04:39
|
|
|
Magni posted:Vice.com is not an authoritative source on military matters. The whole "the crew might have noticed by looking" thing... doesn't really work IRL. Modern-day sensor packages at 20k feet outperform the human eyeball at 200, and that's before taking into account that trying to not crash a plane while flying at 200 feet can take up a decent amount of attention. Hell, even the A-10 isn't actually disputing that anymore - targeting pods have been a mandatory part of every operational loadout for the A-10 for something like 20 years now, and doctrine is to use the drat pod to aquire targets, not your eyeballs. And funnily enough, the perhaps most effective and well-liked CAS plattform in Afghanistan has been... the B-1. Because it can just loiter around at high altitude for hours, sprint into position quickly and then drop JDAMs and keep dropping JDAMs long after anything else but a B-52 would need to RTB for more bombs. The article even goes into this (or rather, tries to skirt around it because it kinda runs counter to their whole narrative) with how that B-52 was on a 30-hours round trip. Most of that "trip" would have been loitering over Afghanistan waiting for someone to call for a bomb delivery. Also, I don't know of any currently in service fighter jet that can only remain on station for 20 minutes unless you're flying it out to the edge of its operational range. I am an ignorant child as far as it comes to air warfare (and almost every other topic under the sun) and it does not surprise me to discover that a Vice article is inadequate. Part of the reason I mentioned the article is so I could get schooled as gently caress. I’m a military brat, but I never had interest in serving. I just miss the comforting sound of B-2s taking off to wreck somebody’s day. Thank you, genuinely, for owning my rear end. I’ll try to do better in the future. I’m new to this topic. While my father was in the Air Force, he was a sawbones, not a pilot. My knowledge of the military-industrial complex ends at the movie Pentagon Wars (also littoral craft).
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 06:02
|
|
|
Played through Mikhail II's run to glory (the reluctant Tsar who starts out in Chita in the Far East and is immediately tossed into a thunderdome). Worked through his entire storyline of taking over as a real tsar instead of a figurehead, only for it once Mikhail finally wins and takes over to immediately.... just stop. No focuses or events or anything, and instead of "Far East Imperial Principality" my nation changed back to just "Chita". Oh well, mod not done.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 06:34
|
|
|
Just finished a Speer Gang of Four run last night, and holy poo poo what a ride. The Civil War ended up being easier than I expected - Bormann suckerpunched Goring and I guess got overextended, though I did make judicious use of steal equipment/disrupt supply lines debuffs. The Great Game, Zollverein and RND were all really fun to play with, though I feel like the Great Game leans a bit on the luck-based side. Ended up dismantling all the megacorps except IG Farben by the 1970s, though I admittedly did drag my feet on starting the economic tree. The whole slave revolt was a loving amazing experience (though Schorner ended up being pretty easy) - watching Speer's power and sanity crumble like the Nazi order he worked so hard to save was  Overall 10/10, would save Germany with the power of friendship again.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 16:04
|
|
|
I just figured out with my speer playthrough that the economy system will grant you additional civ factories annually if you have a positive gdp growth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 18:53
|
|
|
10-wide infantry only as anarchist Spain seemed to do the trick for me. The 1k guns every 20 days plus huge manpower meant that I snowballed pretty quick. If you play your cards right you should be annexing Portugal and preparing to invade China right before the world war kicks into high gear. Usually there’s a lull after annexing Portugal where you’re gated by world tension being below 40 and not being able to reach the focuses that let you justify on everyone.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 20:04
|
|
|
SpaceSDoorGunner posted:10-wide infantry only as anarchist Spain seemed to do the trick for me. The 1k guns every 20 days plus huge manpower meant that I snowballed pretty quick. If you play your cards right you should be annexing Portugal and preparing to invade China right before the world war kicks into high gear. Usually there’s a lull after annexing Portugal where you’re gated by world tension being below 40 and not being able to reach the focuses that let you justify on everyone. in my MP game I just had my French Commune buddy declare on Britain and I immediately naval invaded them and conquered them lol. Now onto the Reich!
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 20:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 17:34 |
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:in my MP game I just had my French Commune buddy declare on Britain and I immediately naval invaded them and conquered them lol. Now onto the Reich! French commune is anti-Stalinist right? I’m trying to find a good nation for my friend for a coop without making it too easy so that seems perfect.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2020 20:33
|
|