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Shodai? This poll is closed. |
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| Cool |
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21 | 75.00% |
| Nah |
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7 | 25.00% |
| Total: | 28 votes | ||
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Skjorte posted:
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Aug 5, 2020 04:52
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Tomokaze seemed to have a super promising career ahead; I hope it's not him. 
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Isn't running away from a stable just quitting? Or are you bound to go back/ you can't change heya
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Aug 5, 2020 13:00
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https://twitter.com/SumoFollower/status/1290962482790649859 No way is the JSA declining his retirement if this is true. That goes beyond being a dumbass and into willful flouting of the quarantine guidelines. anakha fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Aug 5, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 14:39
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Goddammit, Abi.
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Aug 5, 2020 14:42
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ok, my thought before this was “drat can’t they just suspend him for a basho or two?” feel less sympathy now
Thauros fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Aug 5, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 14:50
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Ok wrap it up, he’s done. Moving on..
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Aug 5, 2020 14:53
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Foehammer007 posted:This was my first tourny I watched so that was loving cool, when do the new ranks come out From a couple days ago, but relevant now due to Abi being a screwup. The banzuke committee has actually met already to figure out the ranks and they’ve announced the guys moving up to Juryo so that they can start collecting paycheques before the official rankings are released. Based on how many guys got promoted, people have figured that Abi’s paperwork got filed after the meeting so he’ll probably still be on the September banzuke hogging a spot in Makuuchi. In that case, for November there will be an extra promotion to take his vacated place.
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Aug 5, 2020 16:30
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anakha posted:https://twitter.com/SumoFollower/status/1290962482790649859 oh man so he did think he would get away with it... because he had already gotten away with it a bunch of times pseudodragon posted:From a couple days ago, but relevant now due to Abi being a screwup. The banzuke committee has actually met already to figure out the ranks and they’ve announced the guys moving up to Juryo so that they can start collecting paycheques before the official rankings are released. so wait, they won't bring another rikishi up from juryo to take his place in September?
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Aug 5, 2020 17:12
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Helianthus Annuus posted:so wait, they won't bring another rikishi up from juryo to take his place in September? Apparently not if the predictors are right as once the banzuke is set, it’s set. Tochiozan for example was listed as J2W this tournament even though he announced his retirement before the tournament started and morbidly, Shobushi was still on the list since he died after the May banzuke was finalized and they reused the same one this time. The official physical banzuke takes a long time to create as it’s done in super fancy, hand written calligraphy so once it goes to the people making it, there’d be a lot of crying if they have to start over.
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Aug 5, 2020 17:56
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Imagine having a fellow athlete pass because of the virus then you go out "dozens" of times. Pretty horrible
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Aug 5, 2020 17:59
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Yeah man, I enjoyed Abi's sumo and his antics, but this loving blows.
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Aug 5, 2020 18:06
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I like this guy's take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ubJom_D08U
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Aug 5, 2020 18:19
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i didn’t know the rest of the banzuke besides the juryo/makushita exchanges were decided that far in advance of the public unveiling. guess it makes sense if they want the physical official banzuke in the elaborate calligraphy
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Aug 5, 2020 18:27
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Thauros posted:i didn’t know the rest of the banzuke besides the juryo/makushita exchanges were decided that far in advance of the public unveiling. guess it makes sense if they want the physical official banzuke in the elaborate calligraphy I thought that too, but I figure the guys at tachiai know better than I do. I guess normally they’d have an extra week between the end of the tournament and the decisions so any immediate issues like this would get cleared up before they met. https://tachiai.org/2020/08/05/new-juryo-for-aki-3/
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Aug 5, 2020 18:49
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BONGHITZ posted:I like this guy's take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ubJom_D08U This is the most long winded let he who is without sin cast the first stone. gently caress Abi.
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Aug 5, 2020 19:13
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Yeah, I like Chris Sumo, and there are certainly problems with organizational discipline and culture in the NSK (and maybe other Japanese institutions, I can't comment on that), but it also stands to reason that people who had already been behaving badly might continue to do so, rather than "people who have been behaving badly get blamed more." Literally no one was surprised when it came out that Abi had been loving around, which is telling. I think people might have been pretty shocked if it came out that say, Kotoshogiku or Asanoyama had been flouting the guidelines. I don't think it's likely he's just a scapegoat.pseudodragon posted:I thought that too, but I figure the guys at tachiai know better than I do. I guess normally they’d have an extra week between the end of the tournament and the decisions so any immediate issues like this would get cleared up before they met. The new banzuke is drafted I think the Monday after the tournament is completed. They wait to release it until 2 weeks before the following tournament. However, there are 2 pieces of information that are released early: promotions to juryo, and promotions to ozeki. Both of these promotions entail a great deal of work to be prepared for the next tournament, and also confer major improvements in pay and status, so they're told early in order to prepare. Juryo debutantes need to get their kesho-mawashi (the large, decorated apron thing they wear at the ring-entering ceremony) made and start receiving a salary/get some tsukebito (i.e. lower-ranked wrestlers who assist them)/start up a supporters club, etc. Ozeki get their parking space, an increase in pay, and have a bunch of other responsibilities/perks that need to get worked out. Usually there's lots of partying also, although obviously with coronavirus that's probably not really happening right now. Kenning fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Aug 5, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 19:45
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are there any resources out there for english speakers to learn enough japanese to understand the japanese language sumo commentary? right now i don't know much japanese, so i don't get much out of the commentary, other than the kimarite after the bout is over
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Aug 5, 2020 21:18
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Helianthus Annuus posted:are there any resources out there for english speakers to learn enough japanese to understand the japanese language sumo commentary? No? You'd have to learn a bunch of regular Japanese words and sentence structure to actually be able to understand the commentators, there's pages like this Glossary of Sumo Terms but I don't think you'll get much out of it if you're listening to the Japanese commentary without the sentences structured around it. ilmucche posted:Isn't running away from a stable just quitting? Or are you bound to go back/ you can't change heya Not really, if you run away alone back to your parents or your home country, and especially if you cut your hair, then yeah probably. But if you run away as a group to the NSK in order to report that you haven't had an Oyakata in like a year and the Okamisan is abusing you all, that seems pretty different.
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Aug 5, 2020 21:43
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Brut posted:No? You'd have to learn a bunch of regular Japanese words and sentence structure to actually be able to understand the commentators, there's pages like this Glossary of Sumo Terms but I don't think you'll get much out of it if you're listening to the Japanese commentary without the sentences structured around it. im aware that i'm actually going to have to learn japanese for this to work. was i not clear about that? the point of learning the language by way of sumo is 1) it holds my attention and 2) the sumo commentators tend to say the same kinds of things over and over anyway thanks for the vocab list, thats useful what would be really helpful would be sumo videos with japanese commentary and accurate japanese-language closed-captions, so i can gloss unfamiliar non-sumo-specific japanese words that get used frequently. like, something a hard-of-hearing japanese sumo fan would watch. unfortunately, i'm in no position to evaluate the accuracy of japanese language subtitles, so i have to hope a bilingual goon will help me out
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Aug 5, 2020 22:19
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You are not going to learn anywhere near enough Japanese to make sense of the commentary. The commentators aren't robots, they say very different things each time, maybe you'll recognize a word here or there but it will not be in a way that you'd understand without actually knowing the language itself. None of us knows it, you don't have to be a loving weeb to enjoy sumo, just chill and watch the sport itself.
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Aug 6, 2020 00:14
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Helianthus Annuus posted:what would be really helpful would be sumo videos with japanese commentary and accurate japanese-language closed-captions, so i can gloss unfamiliar non-sumo-specific japanese words that get used frequently. like, something a hard-of-hearing japanese sumo fan would watch. unfortunately, i'm in no position to evaluate the accuracy of japanese language subtitles, so i have to hope a bilingual goon will help me out Are you in the position where you can read Japanese text but don't know the words you're reading? That seems really confusing to me but what do I know  , anyway here's the NSK's official YouTube channel:https://www.youtube.com/c/日本相撲協会公式チャンネル/videos (sorry this isn't a clickable link, the Japanese part breaks if I do that,  Radium)The few random videos I clicked only seem to have auto-generated (likely terrible) subtitles but maybe there's something in there, at the very least it's a bunch of videos of a lot of Sumo being talked about in Japanese. As for the commentators during matches, yeah the guys calling the match in the moment are probably repeating a lot of words/phrases if you look at a long enough time frame, but they usually have a former wrestler sitting next to them giving much more detailed explanations and analysis of what's going on and what went wrong/right for a particular wrestler. This gets expanded even more on the Abema feed where they're more likely to sometimes just be talking about whatever, since they have less of an obligation to be professional than the government-run NHK, and also because they have their own set of former wrestlers who explain things not just with words but physical demonstrations of position/throws/grips etc. Brut fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 00:53
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Yeah just get a Japanese vpn and watch the Abema stream, full on Japanese
Foehammer007 fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 00:56
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Foehammer007 posted:Yeah just a Japanese vpn and watch the Abema stream, full on Japanese You can pay about 20 bucks a month for the most basic package of iSakura TV or a similar service, which will include the NHK channel where Sumo is broadcast, I don't know if there is a CC option included with that (there might be?), but I am pretty certain that unfortunately it does not include the option of switching to the Japanese audio feed (the way Jason does with his remote when watching it on actual TV, in Japan)
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Aug 6, 2020 00:59
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I’ve been learning Japanese off and on for like.. three years now, and the best I can do is get the GIST of what they’re talking about by picking out a few words, maybe once a basho I’ll manage to understand a whole bout replay sloppily. Can’t say it’s really easy but also when I do pick things up it’s stuff like “he had a good tachiai and came in from the left” and I’m like.. “uh yeah I guess he did thanks hundred-year-old-sounding guy” In short: You’re never going to learn just enough Japanese to understand commentary without learning the language, and it’s really doubtful that sumo commentary is something anyone is passionate enough to devote learning Japanese to. But hey, if that floats your boat don’t let me naysay you. Speaking of banzuke, if you guys ever do go, the paper banzuke are like 50y apiece I think. I brought home like 20 of them from 2019 and I keep giving them out as gifts to people who I turn on to sumo and it’s so cool watching their eyes light up like it’s some kind of amazing prize.
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Aug 6, 2020 01:04
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I'm fluent in Japanese and translate for a living, and live Japanese commentary is still really technical, complex, and hard to follow. Not worth it for me, especially after a day's paid work.
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Aug 6, 2020 01:48
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i'm someone who sometimes prefers japanese commentary for pro wrestling but the english commentary for sumo is generally really useful esp for newcomers
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Aug 6, 2020 02:17
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thanks for the resources and gently caress you to the haters i learned a little japanese a long time ago, but its NOT helping me with sumo (way too fast, too many technical terms). i figured i would try to build up the vocab by ripping the CCs and checking a dictionary. the goal would be to be able to watch the lower divisions and at least pick up on poo poo like "he had a slow tachiai because of his bad knee". i know youtube's auto-generated japanese CCs are garbage. I'm not so sure about the accuracy of CCs for live NHK broadcasts, if they are transcribing on the spot. But maybe the highlights videos would be accurately transcribed? That's what i'm wondering about mostly, if a bilingual goon knows where to find sumo videos with accurate CCs
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Aug 6, 2020 02:46
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Hirayuki posted:I'm fluent in Japanese and translate for a living, and live Japanese commentary is still really technical, complex, and hard to follow. Not worth it for me, especially after a day's paid work. thanks for this perspective, this is probably exactly what i need to hear. this might be too hard for me. afaik there are no english-language commentators who cover the lower divisions, so i'm in a bit of a pickle so alternatively, if you know where i can check out the lower divisions with english commentary, that would help me too it would just be nice to get a bit more out of the japanese commentary in the videos i have been watching, instead of just having to tune it out
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Aug 6, 2020 02:49
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Helianthus Annuus posted:gently caress you to the haters Chill out mate. People were explaining why your idea probably wasn't the best thing to go with if you're new to sumo and not fully fluent in Japanese. That said you can definitely pick up words/phrases they say that relates to sumo if you pay attention but you're better off doing actual proper studying an THEN using that to learn more sumo and using that in turn to help strengthen your Japanese knowledge. Mekchu fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 03:10
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Mekchu posted:Chill out mate. oh word, sorry. i will try to be less rowdy. i was pissed at the non-japanese-speaking posters trying to tell me what to do
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Aug 6, 2020 03:41
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NHK World covers highlights from the makuuchi (topmost ranks, maegashira to yokozuna) in English, and the commentators are very good at including both Japanese and English terms together--like "yorikiri frontal force-out". If you watch a few of those, you'll pick up enough basics to be able to hear the important stuff in a Japanese-only broadcast and know what it means. We've been watching sumo that way for only a few years, and it didn't take long for my English-only family to be both understanding and correctly using a bunch of sumo-only terms. Hopefully that'll help with the J-only lower ranks--but understanding the whole commentary is definitely a more time- and labor-intensive process.
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Aug 6, 2020 03:49
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Their ability to speak Japanese or not doesn't really matter here.
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Aug 6, 2020 03:49
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I don't see why there would be accurate CCs when there is English commentators, whatever half rear end CCs you find is probably the best you'll get
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Aug 6, 2020 04:46
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Brut posted:Not really, if you run away alone back to your parents or your home country, and especially if you cut your hair, then yeah probably. But if you run away as a group to the NSK in order to report that you haven't had an Oyakata in like a year and the Okamisan is abusing you all, that seems pretty different. What's the tochinoshin running away story then? I don't know anything about that
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Aug 6, 2020 07:13
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Helianthus Annuus posted:the goal would be to be able to watch the lower divisions and at least pick up on poo poo like "he had a slow tachiai because of his bad knee". NHK only broadcasts Juryo and Makuuchi. Abema broadcasts all divisions but their commentators don't show up until sometime during Juryo or maybe even the beginning of Makuuchi. So unfortunately if you want lower division commentary you're gonna have to provide it yourself. ilmucche posted:What's the tochinoshin running away story then? I don't know anything about that I actually have no clue but a quick google search turned up this Tachiai.org article that has some details in the 3rd paragraph. Basically the difference seems to be between "I'm running away because Sumo is hard" and "I'm running away because my Oyakata (or his wife) is abusing me". Brut fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 07:58
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I feel that's common with foreign rikishi - I think a bunch of the first Mongolian recruits legged it once (including former Kyukotenho). Not necessarily because of the training itself, but being dumped into a weird niche of a foreign culture would be somewhat stressful.
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Aug 6, 2020 08:15
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https://twitter.com/SumoFollower/status/1291294757038292992 Seems like they're giving him the option to fight back from uhhh, probably mid-to-bottom of Makushita in March, but it's possible that by then they'll just go "sike" and accept his resignation then. Brut fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 09:59
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If his retirement papers were accepted instead with no further punishment, would he continue to be paid or receive benefits?
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Aug 6, 2020 10:22
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Brut posted:https://twitter.com/SumoFollower/status/1291294757038292992 That 50% pay cut for 5 months, ouch. Also having to move out of his house and return to the stable they're piling on the punishments. Gokushindo, the rikishi who lied when Abi asked him to, also suspended for two tournaments, meaning he'll be down in Sandanme from Makushita when he returns.
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Aug 6, 2020 11:07
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 10:11 |
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Oh it was Gokushindo after all? Good, glad it's not Tomokaze. Gokushindo is 0-0-7 from Ms45w this basho meaning he's in Sandanme next basho anyway, even if he was allowed to participate, so add 2 more to that and he'll likely be somewhere in Jonidan or maybe even Jonokuchi by the time he comes back.
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Aug 6, 2020 11:18
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