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Some of ya'll have never read a truly bad book and it shows. Raising Steam isn't top tier by any means. Read it for yourself. Snuff is good. Characters change. Read it for yourself.
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Aug 3, 2020 14:58
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Remora posted:Some of ya'll have never read a truly bad book and it shows. I admit, I don’t really read prose nowadays so I can’t say I’ve read a truly bad book in the last few years. I guess I can say I’ve read bad manga
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Aug 3, 2020 15:01
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All Pratchetts are very quick reads and can be acquired at a reasonable price. "Dare I read it?" is quite moot.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:19
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I never understood the hate for Raising Steam -- it wasn't his best story, and Vetinari in particular seems more of a flanderized Mary Sue than usual, but it felt like a purposeful send-off for the Discworld with a ton of old characters and locations being trotted out for one last goodbye. The only thing that seemed "off" was that I didn't actually understand how Moist used the golems to prop up the train over that missing bridge. Usually there's an "ah-ha" moment when you figure out the trick, but the way it was presented I wasn't sure what the hell was going on. I thought maybe they'd just have the golems holding the train up or something, but the actual passage was really puzzling, with Moist (or was it Vimes?) going over the edge and tapdancing on nothing.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:03
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Phenotype posted:I never understood the hate for Raising Steam -- it wasn't his best story, and Vetinari in particular seems more of a flanderized Mary Sue than usual, but it felt like a purposeful send-off for the Discworld with a ton of old characters and locations being trotted out for one last goodbye. there's no hate, it's just a bad book
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Aug 3, 2020 16:16
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It's a book that he had to dictate because he couldn't write anymore and then couldn't really edit either and that's how it reads. To call it 'bad' does him a disservice - he did the best he still could in terrible circumstances. It's just rough to read.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:36
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Megazver posted:It's a book that he had to dictate because he couldn't write anymore and then couldn't really edit either and that's how it reads. That's how Wallace sold millions and millions. Only for him it was needing the money doot swoot, not illness. Also almost all of Wallace's novels are poo but anyway I'm sure I had a point going into this 
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Aug 3, 2020 18:04
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3D Megadoodoo posted:That's how Wallace sold millions and millions. Only for him it was needing the money doot swoot, not illness. *polite noncommittal grunt*
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Aug 3, 2020 18:08
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Megazver posted:It's a book that he had to dictate because he couldn't write anymore and then couldn't really edit either and that's how it reads. To call it 'bad' does him a disservice - he did the best he still could in terrible circumstances. It's just rough to read. Every book that he did in that period is basically a small miracle.
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Aug 3, 2020 19:55
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The only late-Pratchett book I found "unreadable" was Unseen Academicals, but I think that's partly because I just don't give a drat about football.
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Aug 3, 2020 21:56
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I actually didn't hate Raising Steam when I first read it, it just wasn't one of my favorites. Then I started re-reading all of the Discworld books last fall and after reading it back-to-back with several others around that time, it's just sort of "meh" But to echo what someone else said, they're short books and I don't think I've ever felt like it was time wasted reading one, even if it wasn't one of my favorites.
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Aug 3, 2020 22:23
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Moola posted:It took that exact moment in the podcast to get me to realise it was phoenix "down" I love these moments where you find out there's a disconnect you never even noticed. Something in my upbringing led to feathers being the first way I instinctively parsed it and I'm sitting here wondering how anyone can see it otherwise. I mean, I get that they CAN, it's just hard for me to get into that mindset.
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Aug 3, 2020 22:27
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As for the *actual* topic of conversation, my only complaint about Raising Steam is it felt like the characters all had the same voice. As others have said, a first-draft problem rather than a bad-writing one.
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Aug 3, 2020 22:30
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Bruceski posted:As for the *actual* topic of conversation, my only complaint about Raising Steam is it felt like the characters all had the same voice. As others have said, a first-draft problem rather than a bad-writing one. This - I remember it feeling really confusing because of this. I still think you should read it though, why wouldn't you read every Discworld book?
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Aug 3, 2020 23:05
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BurgerQuest posted:why wouldn't you read every Discworld book? I've been putting off some of them for a long time because I am still not wholly prepared to live in a world where I will never again read a Discworld novel for the first time.
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Aug 3, 2020 23:09
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I'm still on my years long reread of Discworld. I just got to the part in Wintersmith were Roland is expressing how much he hates creatures that destroy memories and I was wondering why the story would take this small time out to talk about this. And then cos I'm reading on a kindle I noticed someone had underlined it and my brain finally caught up with me. 
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Aug 3, 2020 23:42
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BurgerQuest posted:This - I remember it feeling really confusing because of this. I still think you should read it though, why wouldn't you read every Discworld book? there's some entertainment in watching bad movies with friends, but there's nothing to gain from reading bad books, which the last ones were
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Aug 3, 2020 23:55
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:I've been putting off some of them for a long time because I am still not wholly prepared to live in a world where I will never again read a Discworld novel for the first time. That's not a bad reason, I think I got into them around 95 so had a good amount of backlog and then have read them on release since then.
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Aug 3, 2020 23:55
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ChubbyChecker posted:there's some entertainment in watching bad movies with friends, but there's nothing to gain from reading bad books, which the last ones were There is a little to gain when the 'bad books' are also the denouement and the goodbye to the beloved characters of a forty-something book series, most of which you've already read.
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Aug 4, 2020 00:23
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ChubbyChecker posted:there's some entertainment in watching bad movies with friends, but there's nothing to gain from reading bad books, which the last ones were So, putting aside my feelings on the later discworld novels, I disagree with the premise that there's nothing to be gained from reading bad books. I've had a blast reading, for example, some of the worse Star Wars EU novels. A really bad book can be as fun as a terrible movie, for the same reasons. Even a mediocre book can have it's place when you need something comforting and unchallenging. I read the bounty hunter trilogy after my father-in-law died because I needed something predictable and just engaging enough to keep my mind off of things. Now, as far as the later Pratchett books go, there's a lot that I like about them, even while I agree that his best stuff came before them. I sincerely believe they're worth reading. Even if they aren't as polished as the rest of the series, the hearts of the characters still feel like they're there to me.
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Aug 4, 2020 00:31
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Megazver posted:There is a little to gain when the 'bad books' are also the denouement and the goodbye to the beloved characters of a forty-something book series, most of which you've already read. I'd rather remember them as they were in their prime. Every book ends satisfactorily, and one last which goes down a checklist for the series as a whole seemed... perfunctory. Especially as they don't actually seem like themselves.
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Aug 4, 2020 01:18
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Maybe its just me but reading the later books didn't somehow cancel out the characters at their best in early works.
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Aug 4, 2020 01:58
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I can't listen to audiobooks because it would overwrite my mental voices of characters.
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Aug 4, 2020 02:20
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The last full novels aren't horrible, but I feel they lack the sparkling wit that Terry's best books had. The couple of YA ones that I read were better because they were more serious stories with lighthearted bits than comic novels. The ones I like to reread are all published before the early 2000s.
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Aug 4, 2020 02:22
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But night watch was published in 2002?
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Aug 4, 2020 03:08
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:I've been putting off some of them for a long time because I am still not wholly prepared to live in a world where I will never again read a Discworld novel for the first time. Same. I'm not ready to say goodbye.
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Aug 4, 2020 04:02
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Alaemon posted:Same. I'm not ready to say goodbye. Yep. I have not touched the last 3. Just can’t bring myself to do it.
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Aug 4, 2020 04:27
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Megazver posted:*polite noncommittal grunt* Now that I've actually slept I think my point was that dictating a novel without editing is a valid way of writing but evidence points to it not being ideal.
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Aug 4, 2020 05:06
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Now that I've actually slept I think my point was that dictating a novel without editing is a valid way of writing but evidence points to it not being ideal. Well of course. Especially for an author who repeatedly expressed that his writing method was a fast first draft then multiple iterations on it to polish it and touch up the jokes and voice.
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Aug 4, 2020 09:56
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:But night watch was published in 2002? Hot take: Night Watch is incredible and one of Pterry's best, but I don't think it's his best. Honestly, if I had to pick, maybe Small Gods? I really adore Small Gods. Thud! was also early 2000s wasn't it? One thing I'm curious about, and I suppose it speaks to the unpredictable nature of the creative process, is how despite the fact there were some books like Raising Taxes or Scouting For Trolls plus I think a third that he had talked about planning for for some time, that those were actually ones we never got, while stuff like Snuff which was never even really kind of alluded to (other than early mentions of Goblins when Discworld was more medieval than the sort of renaissance/early modern analogue* it became). Raising Steam was definitely foreshadowed a bit though, the Undertaking and all that. *I find it funny that when you think about it, the fantasy setting in popular culture that's probably closest in setting to Discworld since Discworld stopped being a parody of generic medieval fantasy is probably Warhammer Fantasy, of all things.
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Aug 4, 2020 15:13
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:*I find it funny that when you think about it, the fantasy setting in popular culture that's probably closest in setting to Discworld since Discworld stopped being a parody of generic medieval fantasy is probably Warhammer Fantasy, of all things. Discworld is a good setting though
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Aug 4, 2020 15:15
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thetoughestbean posted:Discworld is a good setting though Don't speak ill of the dead.
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Aug 4, 2020 15:18
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No, it's a good setting if you approach it right. I recommend Night10194's reviews of WHFRP here: https://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/ with Knights of the Grail a very good starting spot.
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Aug 4, 2020 15:26
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:But night watch was published in 2002? Fair enough, and also Thief of Time which is still my first and favourite.
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Aug 4, 2020 21:31
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Jaguars! posted:Fair enough, and also Thief of Time which is still my first and favourite.  Thief of Time and Night Watch are probably his two finest.
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Aug 4, 2020 22:41
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Honestly my favorites are probably the City Watch trilogy since those were the first ones I read since my dad had the omnibus.
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Aug 4, 2020 23:31
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Jaguars! posted:Fair enough, and also Thief of Time which is still my first and favourite. Yeah those two and small gods are my favourite too.and jingo.carpe jugulum is probably the funniest.and Mort.and going postal. crap. I'll say this about night watch; I read it right after reading Roberto Bolano's 2666, which is a legit Masterpiece of Literature and there is usually a refractory period after reading something like that , and even then I was blown away.night watch is really good.
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Aug 5, 2020 00:53
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SirSamVimes posted:
I love how they tie together. It's about time for a full series reread, but last time I got hung up sometime before then.
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Aug 5, 2020 07:19
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:Yeah those two and small gods are my favourite too.and jingo.carpe jugulum is probably the funniest.and Mort.and going postal. You’re not so stupid, for all that you wear a funny hat.
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Aug 6, 2020 04:04
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Colour of Magic is the best one.
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Aug 6, 2020 07:35
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