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Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

Dallbun posted:

I want to see this deep dive.

You got it, boss.



Before we begin, I want to make a few things clear:
  • This is going to be a picture heavy post. I’m trying to show off this game in depth and I have access to an image hosting service I trust so get ready for that.
  • These pictures will look like garbage. I took them all with my phone and edited them in Paint; this is not a professional production.
  • This will also be a long post. Not just counting all the pictures.
  • Normally I don’t delve into mechanics in my reviews; it’s a principle based on supporting creators. As far as I’m aware, this game has been out of print for 15 years at least and the only people who’ll ever see it are collectors willing to drop $70 on a used boardgame. No one cares about this game. Except me. And, hopefully, by the end of the review, you.
  • This game came out in 2002. Attack of the Clones had just been released and Episode III was years away. As far as Star Wars goes, this thing is practically a time capsule; if you care about Legends, just reading the flavor text on the cards is a nostalga trip.
  • I was a HUGE Star Wars fan when I was a kid; I was neck-deep in Legends back when they called it the Expanded Universe. I’ve since mellowed out but I still care about this probably more than I should, so get ready for a lot of Wookiepedia links.
  • The box art implies the game includes material from the original trilogy as well as the prequels. The box art lies. Aside from some of the art this game is set entirely in Jedi times.
  • I know this thread is theoretically about tabletop role-playing games, but this game falls under the aegis of tabletop games and also I want to talk about it so there.

If you aren’t familiar with the Game of LIFE®, it’s a member of that second tier of classic board game, not as famous as Monopoly or the like but a step above Catan or Carcassonne. Players compete to live the most picture-perfect suburban American life possible, passing through various life stages while trying to make as much money as possible; the richest person wins, because no matter how happy your life was, the most important thing to someone on their deathbed is the size of their bank account. Mechanically similar to a lot of boardgames that send you along a winding track, it’s big mechanical distinction is the LIFE® tile: you draw these every time you land on certain spaces and try to gather as many of them as possible, then flip them over once everyone’s done to discover what #lifegoals each player accomplished and how much money they earned off them because that’s why you do interesting things. As you can guess from the box, this game borrows its basic ruleset, except it then throws out half of it. But we’ll get to that.



So, here are two pictures of the board, one without feelies and one with them installed (in that order). The game comes bundled with a few plastic figurines you insert at various points on the board, and every one of them is annoying. Seriously, every time I set this game up I think that I lost one of them or damaged the board trying to install them. I usually go without, but hey. You get the full treatment. Like standard LIFE, this thing uses a spinner instead of dice or something, wedging it uncomfortably over the starting area where it’s easy to spin it too hard and send its components flying out into someone’s tokens.



You get four little strips of cardboard to pick between represent your character: three Jedi from the prequels and poor Chewbacca, who apparently got lost. You just slot the your choice into a little plastic stand and go. Unlike in LIFE classic, you don’t use money because Jedi avoid earthly attachments. Instead, the game mechanically revolves around replacement LIFE tiles that represent each one of four skills a Jedi can be expected to have: Fighting (combat), Intuition (using the Force, Luke), Energy (using force push or lifting X-wings or whatever), and Logic (which should have no place in Star Wars but here we are). You can also pick up Dark Side tiles throughout the game, but we’ll get to that.


A quick shot of the board; you’ve probably seen most of this before. You play a turn by spinning the spinner, going that many spaces (stopping if you hit a red space), doing what the space status, and adjusting your skill tiles appropriately before passing to the next person. Some spaces tell you to gain or lose skill tokens, some let you roll again, some let you switch out skills, some make you draw cards, and to some make you engage another player in a Jedi Challenge (both players spin and add one skill; whoever has the highest total gets a free skill token). However, this game has two special space types.



The first (above) are Trials; whenever you run into one you spin against the given skill difficulty and take some penalty if you fail. These only show up at the beginning and right at the end. The other are Dark Side spaces. Occasionally you will run across a shortcut branching off the main track with black spaces ending in a red space; you take these if you want to be a Sith Lord (you can be a Sith Lord in this game). Every time you land on a space along a Dark Side track, you take a Dark Side token in exchange for getting unusually powerful bonuses; you do have to keep in mind that some spaces (marked Redemption) will take away one Dark Side token and a skill token (or give a free skill to good Jedi children), so you can find it biting you in the rear end later. This will become a theme.



We also get four decks of cards. The first two, Lessons and Missions, are simply skill challenges; spin and add the relevant skill, if it’s at or more than the target number you pass. The only mechanical differences are that Lessons are less risky than Missions and Missions start showing up a lot later. Every card in this game (not just Lessons and Missions) has at least a sentence or two of flavor text, and if you’re like me, you’ll recognize a lot of names and phrases. As far as I can tell, half the Lesson flavor text and all of the missions draw from Legends somehow; just in these cards two of the Lessons reference Corellian Jedi and part of the Jedi Code, while the Mission cards reference Dathomir, force-witches, Onderon, Adegan crystals, and Mandalorians. Like I said, nostalgia trip.



In LIFE®, you occasionally stop at red spaces representing major life events (getting married, buying a house), each of which introduces some new element to gameplay. This game does that too by providing you with a master and later a lightsaber. Your master comes first; each master is a Jedi from the prequel movies and, as you can see from the picture… well, some are better than others (sorry Depa, but I’d rather be mentored by Samuel L. Jackson himself. Also you can lose them and their bonuses eventually if you become a Sith, part of how Sith get screwed. You get a master roughly a third of the way through the game and afterwards start getting Mission cards. Building your lightsaber marks the two thirds point and requires you sacrifice either one of each skill or three of one skill before drawing the card. After getting one the track gets a little looser and you have more options for routes to take.


A couple shots of the final area (pardon the even greater blurriness, I had to lean over the board to get a good shot). When you get within the last dozen or so spaces of the final destination, you enter the Jedi Trials section; you go either Jedi or Sith depending on how many Dark Side tokens you have and face a series of honestly really brutal challenges. The Jedi path is much longer but less risky while the Sith path will gently caress you up if you haven’t planned carefully or gotten very lucky. Once you get to the end you take the obligatory skill token rewards for getting there first (the first Sith gets a bunch and the rest don’t, the Jedi get a declining number of skills based on order). Once everyone gets to the end you start the first part of the scoring process; if everyone went either Jedi or Sith, the one with the highest skill total wins, spinning against each other for ties. Simple enough. However, if you have at least one of each, the most skillful Jedi and Sith face off. The Sith picks three skills and they spin against each other in any order, once for each skill. If the Jedi wins one of these spins, they win the game. In theory, the huge bonanza of skills Sith get by running down their paths balances it out, but it doesn’t. This final section is by far the most important part of the game, and I’ll get to why in a bit.



Final note: here’s the rulebook in all its glory (plus a wayward Fighting tile). Pretty solidly written and it has a bunch of fluff at the end, but it suffers from some serious rule ambiguities. Biggest one? It doesn’t clarify what a Sith losing their master means. I can see someone convincingly arguing that just means discarding their master card and not the skills it gives them, even though that’s probably bullshit. But hey, it tells you what kind of Jedi you are!


To illustrate how this thing works, I’ll be running two characters through a sample game. The purple guy (Ki-Adi-Mundi) will be our sample Jedi; given the size of that cranium, I’ve decided to name him Sixhead. Our Sith will use Chewbacca's cutout; as a reference both to his appearance and as a pun on the word “fury” (following the long tradition of Sith Lord names based on misspelled words about violence), we’ll call him Furry. Players start with two skills of their choice and I laid them out in the picture above; Sixhead (whose skill pile will be represented by the adjacent green figure to make keeping track easier) has one Logic and one Energy, while Furry (represented by the yellow figure) chose two Fighting.




Above we have the position of our two new padawans and their skill totals after passing their first trials. In the background you can see how, like LIFE has both college and straight to work tracks, A Jedi’s Path here has three, each of different lengths and each named after a Star Wars animal. They represent which clan you grew up in. In theory, the longer the path, the more opportunities you have to pick up skills, but since failing that first trial sends you back to the start where you get two new skills of your choice, it ends up usually averaging out. Being a calm and measured Jedi type, Sixhead took the long path and got there a bit later, while Furry took the shortest path in part because he’s the type to take shortcuts to power but mostly because it’s named after a mammal. He likes furry animals, but he’s never been a fan of scalies. On the rights you can see their current skill totals, still equal at 6 each.


The game when Sixhead picked up his master, Yaddle. Furry’s totals are much higher (14 to 10), partly because he spun two 9s in a row and shot ahead and partly because he’s already taken one Dark Side route, landing once part way through and once on the red square at the end. He's had his master Saesee Tiin for much longer. It can actually be to your benefit to advance slowly, though, since it gives you more opportunities to pick up skills; given how Dark Side paths tend to take shortcuts past big chunks of the board, that’s another hidden mark against Sith.


Two thirds of the way through now; Sixhead has caught up with Furry and they both have their lightsabers now. Furry had the misfortune to land on a couple Redemption spaces that took away as many Darkside tokens as he earned, taking one skill token away each. He’s starting to catch on to how unfair this game can actually be and has started to mutter about Furry persecution, but there is still enough space to mount a comeback. Skill totals sit at 24 for Sixhead and 20 for Furry.


They both reached the final area at about the same time. Sixhead actually lost a couple skills, having failed a couple missions and losing a few tokens to Furry via Darkside spaces. Furry, in the process of becoming Darth Furry, lost his master and the appropriate tokens, but he’s still substantially stronger than Sixhead (25 to 21). Here’s the thing about the final area, though; the Jedi and Sith tracks work very differently. Jedi get three red spaces: Logic 14, Intuition 14, and any skill plus Energy 20, each of which sends you back to the previous red space upon failure. Another ambiguity here. I THINK failures just sends you back to the last red space. However, the rules have nothing to say about what happens when players are moved back without ending their turn. The board has no mechanics that move players to other squares without spinning except the first Jedi trial back when they leave the plans, and if you fail that you take the action the space tells you to. RAW the book says nothing. It’s entirely possible that a string of failed spins can send you all the way from the final trial to the beginning. On the other hand, successfully spinning on either of the first two gives you three skills of your choice, so if it does, you have the chance to farm skills in an area already generous with the skills it gives out. On the other side of the track, Sith only get one trial but it’s a doozy; spin against Fighting 20 and if you lose, not only do you go back to the beginning, you lose four skill tokens of your choice. Even one failed trial can cripple a Sith, especially given how success gives them nothing and how high they need their skills to hope to beat a powerful Jedi without extraordinary luck. It’s honest-to-God Multiple Ability Dependency in a place far removed from older versions of D&D. This final section is by far the most important in the game and the place where it decisively screws Sith over.


As expected, Sixhead picked up a bunch of skills on the way to the final battle and Furry failed his trial once, obliterating his Intuition. Furry got to the end first, becoming Darth Furry; Sixhead caught up several turns later. Above are their final skill spread: 36 for Sixhead, 23 for Furry; bit more dramatic a discrepancy than it usually is, but Sith often end up with a lower total. In theory, it doesn’t matter as long as the Sith stays competitive in three, but that just isn’t practical. When Master Sixhead finally faces off against Darth Furry in a climactic duel, Furry picks Fighting, Energy, and Logic. They don’t bother spinning for Fighting; Furry wins by default. However, when Sixhead spins for Energy, his 13 Energy and result of 6 add up to more than Furry could possibly get. With that, Darth Furry finally meets a suitable end and Sixhead is declared victor.



A solid third of the rules pamphlet is devoted to an optional piece of fluff: you can find out what kind of Jedi you are by identifying your first and second highest skills (choosing in case of ties) and reading a relevant paragraph. For instance, for Sixhead (whose Logic, Intuition, and Energy are all tied), I choose Intuition, then Energy:

The Game of LIFE®: A Jedi’s Path posted:

To you the galaxy is a mesh of possibilities, linked by the force. You see billions of beings, each making thousands of decisions daily – a giant web. You can trace this web, almost unerringly, to see into the future. Although this is tiring to the utmost, the Force acts as your anchor, giving you strength and serenity as you probe the futures of the Republic. You can find the one thread in a galaxy-wide conspiracy and follow it to its heart. You are a counselor and teacher, a year and a visionary.

in other words, a Jedi Consular. If Darth Furry had dropped the Darth, he would have been Fighting, Then Energy:

The Game of LIFE®: A Jedi’s Path posted:

You are a warrior unsurpassed. Between your skills with a lightsaber and the energy the Force brings you, you can leap, jump and twirl beyond what the eye can see. Your connection to the Force allows you to push an enemy from afar and your lightsaber construction will be studied by Padawans for millennia. You are often sent on dangerous missions where a quick lightsaber and battle instincts are not only an advantage, but are necessary for survival.

So Furry’s a conventional Jedi Guardian. However, he actually became a Sith Lord:

The Game of LIFE®: A Jedi’s Path posted:

Although powerful, you have fallen to the dark side of the Force. Your access to the Force is through anger, fear, and hatred. Your skills come easily to you, although do not bring you peace. Your power is great, but somehow unsatisfying. All fear you, though none respect you. You bring destruction to the galaxy, using others for your own purposes.

And there you have it. That’s the entire game.



The game suffers from being easily broken, especially at the end. While a well-designed game should have multiple paths to victory, a savvy player here really only has one: avoid the Dark Side paths, take the longest routes, and put most of your skills into Intuition and Logic first, Energy second, and Fighting only enough to get you past relevant Lessons and Missions. There’s still a lot of luck involved, but you could write an algorithm that follows those rules and will beat human players more often than not. But if you DON’T approach this like a powergamer, this game is a hell of a lot of fun; there’s enough strategy to figure out before cracking the riddle that you can squeeze a lot of entertainment out of it, and there’s enough chance involved to make sudden defeats and dark horse victories possible (if unlikely). If you’re a Star Wars fan, especially of the Prequels (and as time goes on more and more people are willing to admit they are), this game practically writes you a self-insert fanfiction; a Master Jedi (all of whom show up in the movies and have Legends stuff written about them) chooses you to be their Padawan, they take you on missions to places you’ve seen in other media to do cool things, you struggle through your Jedi Trials (which seem harder than they are because of how long they take), and finally take your place as a full Jedi Knight. It’s the daydreams of countless children across the world made real. That emergent sense of role-playing is what motivated me to review this boardgame in this tabletop RPG review thread. Or it would’ve been, if I didn’t just make all that up after writing this review because I wanted to talk about a boardgame I like :v:

Falconier111 fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Aug 7, 2020

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mellonbread
Dec 20, 2017
HOW TO HOST A DUNGEON - PART 3: THE AGE OF MONSTERS


In this episode of How to Host a Dungeon, we fill our freshly emptied dungeon with monsters, and watch adventurers arrive to plunder their treasure.

If you’ll recall, here’s how our Dwarven Civ looked moments before its collapse



The pennies (population) and dimes (treasures) are all gone now. The nickels (Epic Treasures) are still there.

To seed the Age of Monsters, we draw three cards from the Monster deck. We roll D8s to place them on the map, unless they have specific conditions about where they spawn.




The black dots are the amount of population counters the unit has. The white dots are the amount of treasure. A star indicates a special ability, which they can expend to gain a bonus on some conflict rolls. We’ll use Pennies, Dimes and Nickels again.

The Temple is an awkward draw to combine with the Rats. With their level of resources, they’re on track for a quick apotheosis.

We’ll place experts on surface, since they’re adventurers looking to wreck the dungeon.


The green die is just to help me remember who’s who

We dice for the Rats and their Temple, and get layer four. We’ll add a structure in the old coal mine tunnels for them. Maybe the neutron burst damaged the fabric of reality in the dungeon, allowing the whispers of a God to seep into the world and corrupt the minds of the Rat Creatures.



Now that we’ve placed our first crop of Monster cards, we’re ready for the first round. We stick the cards in a pile (just the Rats and the Experts, since the Temple just enhances the Rats’ abilities) and draw to see what order they act in. This doesn’t matter right now, since everyone’s too far apart for their actions to influence one another. It becomes critical later on, when the dungeon gets more crowded.

Cards have an ALWAYS condition, that they do every turn they’re able. They have an IF condition that they also do, provided the circumstances are right. Then the player chooses one additional action from the list of check boxes.

The Experts explore, burrowing down from the surface by the old cooling tower and entering the original Dwarven outpost. The Rats increase their population and build an altar at their temple.

Now that the first turn is elapsed, we draw a new card from the deck. We’ll do this every turn until the end of the game.



This triggers a search through the deck for an Undead card. We hit paydirt quickly.



We drop the Starhelm on the surface, atop the Experts’ excavation…



...and we roll for the Skeletons, who get placed in Layer 6. We get to choose what room they end up in, so they go in the throne room.



Top of the order, we shuffle and draw. Starhelm goes first. They descend into the mines, looking for Undead to do battle with. Not finding any, they get into a scuffle with the Rats, whose worship of proscribed entities strikes them as foolhardy and dangerous.

Fighting is done by rolling opposed D6s. Modifiers are applied if one side is defending a fortification, spends a star token, or has an applicable special ability on their card.


It was a round this time I realized I should be using green for constructions in the Age of Monsters

The Starhelm take a slice out of the Rats, but the surviving rodents prevent them from breaching the Temple.

Next, we draw the Skeletons. The Skeletons convert their starting location to a Tomb automatically. None of their ALWAYS or IF conditions are applicable this round, so the Skeletons exploit the Tomb they just created, generating one unit of treasure.


The bones are the skeletons’ money. In their world, bones equal dollars

Up next: the Rats. They Breed up as their ALWAYS action and attack the Starhelm, eager to drive them away from their home. Attacking is an IF action for the Rats if their population is four or greater. So not only do the Rats increase their population and win the fight, they still have an action left. They build a Great Nest, increasing their defense in future battles. Things are not going well for the Starhelm!



Up next, the Experts. Their ALWAYS action is to fight denizens (one of the two categories of dungeon monster, the one with the skull) and the Rats are right there. They join the Starhelm in besieging the Rat fortress...



...and fail. Their IF condition is to relocate if they lose, so they move zones to the Citadel on the next level down. Experts love to kill things, not GET killed. It’s not their problem if these Starhelm guys get wiped out.



Now that everyone’s moved, we draw a new card.



Interesting that the Adventurers are tagged “good”, while the Experts aren’t. Guess you either die Good aligned, or you live long enough to see yourself become True Neutral. A lot of cards will have text that interacts with other cards based on their tags - like the Skeletons allying with other Undead.

The adventurers begin on the surface, at the old Expert camp.



And that takes us back to the top of the order.

The Experts ALWAYS fight denizens, so they go after the Skeletons in the throne room. They lose the fight, and use their IF condition to retreat to the underground lake.



The Starhelm decide that fighting the Rats isn’t in their mission statement, even if they’re obviously up to no good, and descend to face the Skeletons. They make progress, shaving off one pip of Skeleton population.

(I think I shouldn’t have used the Fight action here, the Starhelm have Hunt as their ALWAYS action, meaning they can delete a pip of population from the enemy without rolling)

The Adventurers descend into the dungeon. Because the Rats gained the “order” tag from the Temple, the Adventurers can attempt to trade with them. That means both sides roll a conflict, and if the “attacker” wins, both sides gain one treasure. Unfortunately, the Adventurers aren’t conversant in the Ratman trade language, and fail to make an exchange.

The Skeletons killed an Expert, so they automatically use the Breed action to spawn another Skeleton. Then they attack the Starhelm and lose that Skeleton immediately.

The Rats increase their numbers, and have enough population that they attack the Adventurers automatically. They Rats are immediately driven back for their treachery. They spend their action of choice exploiting the ore vein the temple is built on, to buy the last of the temple improvements before apotheosis.

With everyone’s move complete, we draw another card: a group of Antlings.



We dice for their spawn location and get the same strata as the Rats. That means a fight, with the loser being routed. The Antlings are driven back, and set up a colony in the dungeon level below.



Top of the order, the Skeletons attack the Starhelm again,. The Skeletons lose the fight, and with it, their last population pip, eliminating them from the game.

The Rats make more Rats, attack the Adventurers again, fail to dislodge the Adventurers again, and build an Ark with the wealth they just mined from the dungeon floor.

The Adventurers relocate from the fruitless Ratmen fight to the Throne Room, and try to gank the Starhelm (they have an IF clause to automatically fight anyone with treasure, and the Starhelm snagged the Skeletons’ hoard). The victorious Starhelm easily drive the Adventurers back.

The Experts down in the frozen lake are at a loss for what to do. They don’t have any actions for collecting treasure, so they can’t pick up the Epic Treasure in the old Dwarven weapons lab. Since they ALWAYS Fight Denizens, and the nearest Denizens are the Adventurers, they turn their knives on the less experienced dungeoneers. The Experts successfully knock them around and send them packing.

The Starhelm raise a Shrine of Starhelm to commemorate cleansing the tomb of the Ore Duke. Then, with no more undead to fight, they leave the dungeon.



Rather than contest Ratling occupied tunnels, the Ants replenish their numbers and explore deeper into the earth.

Everyone’s moved, so it’s time to spawn another Monster. We draw a group of Farmers on the surface.



Top of the order, our first card is the Rats. I decide I’ve been putting this off long enough. They spend their required star and population points to achieve Apotheosis, dragging the world kicking and screaming into the Age of Villainy.


Why is the Strata Corrupt? More on that next post

That wraps up the Age of Monsters. How do I feel about it?

We had a weird setup. The rats had the power to rush apotheosis within the first two rounds, but I delayed it because I wanted to show off more of the Age of Monsters. It’s a solo game, so besides the ALWAYS and IF statements it’s up to the player to decide what all the creatures do.

The cards give just enough personality that we can imagine what’s actually going on in the dungeon. The Adventurers only attack people with treasure. The Experts don’t give a poo poo about treasure, they entered the dungeon just to kill people. The Rats breed fast and attack things they outnumber, but they also engineer and build. A lot of the cards are obvious references to other media - in addition to generic Skaven, there’s also a non-product identity Umber Hulk and Otyugh, and probably other references I don't recognize.

One thing that didn’t come up in this phase is the difference between Denizens and Alpha Predators. Denizens have the little skull tag, while alpha predators have a crown. Most things in the dungeon will only rout, steal from, or otherwise indirectly attack Alpha Predators. A few will attack them directly, like the Starhelm Hunting anything with the undead tag. We only drew Denizens this time, but we'll see some Alpha Predators in the next phase.

In general, anything that has the Breed action as an ALWAYS or IF is never going away. Without special abilities, the Hunt and Fight actions only take off one population pip per attack, so they’ll be at replacement level unless attacked from all sides. In my test run that I did before this review, one of the original three monsters was a group of Feral Dogs, which ALWAYS relocate and Breed IF they have less than three population. They spent the entire history of the dungeon running around the map, terrorizing everyone and running away when they got in trouble. Even the Medusa who eventually took over the dungeon and conscripted the other monsters couldn’t concentrate enough force to exterminate them.

There’s sometimes a lack of specificity that makes it difficult to judge how an action plays out. How close to another monster does someone have to be in order to Hunt or Fight it? Sometimes the game uses strata as a ruler for how close things are to each other, and sometimes it uses “rooms” within the strata, presumably the constructions and lairs made by the Civilization, or by other Monsters. The Scout and Explore actions seem to do the same thing, except that Explore leaves tunnels and Scout doesn’t. Unless maybe it does?

One final note, the Age of Monsters takes a LOT longer than to play out than the Age of Civilization. Don’t build the map on a surface you need to use for anything else, or you won’t be able to leave and come back to it.

Up next, the Age of Villainy!

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

That is much better put-together than I was expecting.

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.
Thank you for that post about Star Wars: Life! It's neat to see a licensed board game that actually does something with the premise.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

I like that you can play Ki-Adi-Mundi, student of Ki-Adi-Mundi.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice

Mors Rattus posted:

I like that you can play Ki-Adi-Mundi, student of Ki-Adi-Mundi.

You're self taught.

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

Glazius posted:

That is much better put-together than I was expecting.

Leraika posted:

Thank you for that post about Star Wars: Life! It's neat to see a licensed board game that actually does something with the premise.

I gave it some poo poo for its exploitable mechanics, but this thing’s playable, enjoyable, and excruciatingly well-researched (and if you’re familiar with Wookieepedia’s reputations, it’s fascinating to see how far back that obsession goes). I’m not sure who wrote the rules (i didn’t spot credits in the manual) but I hope they went on to do something else in the field.

Mors Rattus posted:

I like that you can play Ki-Adi-Mundi, student of Ki-Adi-Mundi.

Epicurius posted:

You're self taught.

Pick the right cutout and get lucky on your Master draw and you can be Obi-Wan Kenobi, student of Qui-Gonn Jinn. :v:

mellonbread posted:

HOW TO HOST A DUNGEON - PART 3: THE AGE OF MONSTERS

This is vastly different from the first edition. Same underlying mechanics, but you had only a few types of monsters; each type had set mechanics altered by a subtype rolled up on another table. It was definitely less physical than in here.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
Chapter 8: Bazaar, pt. 5



Degenesis Rebirth
Katharsys
Chapter 8: Bazaar


JUDGES

The big book of laws. Allows you to regenerate 1 Ego point in battle if you spend a round thinking about it. Can only be done once a day.

Higher-ranking Judges have an annotated Codex with a glossary, which gives them +2D to Expression when judging.

Basically useless. :cripes:

Judges' Musket

A muzzleloader produced by a “Master of Steel” and adorned by his markings. 2 actions to reload. Double barreled versions exist – you get -2D to accuracy if you fire both at the same time, but damage is double.

Yes, reloading is per-barrel. :freep:



"Per aspera ad astra" and "Fiat lux" on one gun? gently caress youuu.

Flintlock Pistol

What if musket but small? The “specialty” is that you can carry several (as opposed to other weapons?). The intended use here is to use them as a pistol brace, shooting one and dropping it instead of reloading.

Judgement Hammer

A plain hammer that serves as the Judges’ iconic item. Has the “negative quality” of Impact (3T) which can be ameliorated with Potentials. The book surprisingly doesn't describe what Impact means.

You need to roll 3 Triggers or you can't use it next turn

Judgement Tools

Not all sentences are death, so judges carry other tools to mark criminals with the right colors, brands and whatnot. Also includes a brand for rapists, murderers and repeat offenders, a lighter, and coal.

Judges' Horse

Covers everything from old nags to Chargers. Roll a combo of AGI+Navigation and BOD+Melee when attacking with the Judgement Hammer on horseback. Probably a means of getting those 3T that Impact needs.

SCRAPPERS

Marvel

The custom-made rifle of a Scrapper – they don't trust Bygone weapons as those failed to protect the owner from a massive space rock. :jerkbag:

Muzzleloader with “the highest number of [mod] slots.”

Grinder

A shotgun with a grinder for turning scrap and stones into ammo, just add gunpowder. Supposedly wounds terribly, but halves damage against Armor 2+.

Classed as a handgun, which makes the grinder addition even more problematic in the verisimilitude department.



No help in picking up gay dudes.

Crusher

Marvel but for melee. As befitting an Ork choppa, has more slots than any other weapon (I assume they mean melee weapons, as Marvels are already top slot-havers). :orks 101:

Toolkit

The stuff Scrappers use to modify stuff. Comes in three levels, giving +1D to AGI+Crafting and AGI+Dexterity (“if applicable” lol). “You can always find or buy better tools” - except for when you already have level III, I guess.

Carrying Rig

Some sort of backpack harness-frame-rig for easier hauling of scrap. 3 levels, reduces scrap encumbrance by 1 per level.

Is that only for Scrap? What about carrying regular stuff on the rig (that is, not hands)? If you break down a gun into Scrap, does it magically weigh less? :iiam:

We will later learn that Scrap is a distinct resource

Pneumatic Metal Shears

The hobo version Hellvetic NO FUN ALLOWED exo armor mod gives you +4D to BOD+Force when “clearing away huge obstacles made of metal” - provided you get grip.

Does that mean that it doesn't help against, say, wood? Would a large cardboard obstacle prevent the bonus? :pseudo:



No mention of tonfas anywhere here.

Tractor Rig

Petrol-powered tractor thing, useful for clearing obstacles and lifting poo poo out of holes in the ground. Probably good for carrying that scrap as well. The Specialty is having the “average” Force of 30.

Periscope

Good for looking behind the corner or outside of your hidey-hole. Specialty says that it gives +2D to AGI+Stealth... without any other rules, seemingly. So, you know, as long as you're standing in the middle of the field while holding a periscope...

Also, it's classified as “In the shadows,” which certainly is a category.

CLANNERS

Primitive club

Here we learn that making a lovely club from a bit or pipe and rebar, and putting some teeth or hair on it, makes it into Cult equipment.

Atlatl

Supposedly helps to throw the spear harder, but Specialty doesn't say anything.

Camo paint

Donning camo or war paint is Cult tech, and, by the rules set out at the start of the chapter, you'd be questioned about appropriation.

Camo paint +2D to AGI+Stealth (paint yo miniatures periscope-waving Scrappers) while war paint gives +2D to PSY+Faith/Willpower. I dunno what stops you from just coloring your entire group except for some “ugh, it's very important culturaly to Clanners and they would never do it” frou-frou.

Traps

Traps for capturing beasts and the second-most-dangerous-game. Apparently you can carry several.

Iron Club of The Cockroach King

quote:

The Cockroach Clan is infamous for its nightly forays. Its fighters, thirsty for blood, break from the ruins, disappearing back into their wrecked world by day. Their kings are different: bloated, colossal, the head barely reaching above the shoulders. The Cockroaches tend them like dangerous animals, caged, worshiped. The women are keen on being impregnated by them: strong children for the nest.

:chloe:

It's a big club wielded by one of those guys.



Big guns never tire, but they sometimes explode

Pneumo Hammer

Mechanist, the founder of Ramein's Mechans, left the blueprints for a [i]steam-powered gun[/b]. Heat it up, boil the water, and let steam fire one barrel while reloading the other.

Specialty: takes 5 minutes to heat up to usable state, and also can be used as a bomb that explodes with Force 12.

Druchinnik Silk Armor

The silk flak-armor of Wroclaw's Piast's bodyguards.

Gee, I wonder how the player is ever supposed to get any of the three previous items aside from killing the previous owner.

Rosemont
Nov 4, 2009
I don't care if it's a reference, I really like the story of the ratpeople. :allears:

Chernobyl Peace Prize
May 7, 2007

Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

I know this is always a good thread but drat we've gotten some real bangers on the last couple pages, between Star Wars Life, How to Host a Dungeon, and more Degenesis (i love you stupid game), plus Sigmar eternal. Cheers to all of you for continuing to make this one of the best threads on the forums.

Dallbun
Apr 21, 2010

Glazius posted:

That is much better put-together than I was expecting.

They out so much effort into the retheming in general, how on earth did Chewbacca end up as one of the cutouts?

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements



I went and got the free version of HTHAD 2nd edition because of this review, because I love little history generators with weird interactions and stuff, I'll have fun doodling it.

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011

inspired by but legally distinct from CATS (2019)
Yeah, can’t lie, this seems like a real cool dungeon generator.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
It is. I would like to see a second attempt at it just see what changes.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.

Dallbun posted:

They out so much effort into the retheming in general, how on earth did Chewbacca end up as one of the cutouts?

Especially since one of the few rules Lucas imposed on the expanded universe during this period was "No Wookie Jedi".

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements



Angry Salami posted:

Especially since one of the few rules Lucas imposed on the expanded universe during this period was "No Wookie Jedi".

Why must the Wookies suffer this ignominy? What did Wookies do to deserve this disdain?

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 20 hours!
It's that wet wookie smell, the other jedi just won't have it.

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

Are you happy now?
Is there building a Kingdom version of HOW TO HOST A DUNGEON? I think I'm going to buy it, but I really want one I can try and use to give my Oathmark kingdom a back story. I might end up using the old 2nd AD&D World Builders Guidebook, but I'm looking for something more...modern.

Dallbun
Apr 21, 2010
Before reaching level 15, a druid must defeat

The Deck of Encounters Set Two Part 29: The Deck of Forests and Zoos
(in single combat, of course)

147: Bad Time in the Woods
The PCs are camped out. A large owl lands nearby, then a bear comes out and stares at them. Shortly afterwards, a druid, Gorth, will come out “ranting and raving” at them. Apparently they’re camped on the edge of a “Druid’s Circle,” whatever exactly that is, and they’d better move immediately or by gawd he’s going to force the issue.

I get the premise, but the most likely gameplay here is that the PCs say “okay dude” and move, and then the encounter ends. Can I get something about what this circle does? Does a druid have to man it 24/7 to keep a killer robot from the future imprisoned underneath? Or something? Give me more to play with! Pass.


148: The Trees are Alive
The PCs are camped out for the night and they have a sentry by the campfire. The sentry sees the trees move, but they stop when the other PCs awaken. “This may occur several times during the watch, irritating PCs who are just trying to sleep.” I mean, I guess? Except that people are probably going to go out into the woods to investigate?

What’s happening is that a treant is animating trees. It’ll shortly march in, annoyed about the campfire and the invasion of its turf. “If necessary, the treant will use force to get the PCs to comply, but is counting on its size and intimidating manner achieve (sic) its goal.”

Isn’t this exactly the same as the last encounter? The PCs presumably decide to just pack up and leave, and the tension fizzles? Or alternately, they get into a 100% pointless combat for no good reason? I just can’t see running this. Pass.


149: Not Exactly Monkeys on the Interstate, Part 1 of 2
The PCs come to a big city that even has a zoo (“public menagerie”). The entrance is near the market. The PCs are present when there are screams and crashing, and an earth elemental busts free. What kind of menagerie has elementals? We get no details on it.

Not much here, it’s just an elemental attack in the city with no twists or anything. I guess that’s pretty unusual for a city encounter, so there’s that, but geez, it’s just so boring. What’s the follow-up? Pass.


150: Not Exactly Monkeys on the Interstate, Part 2 of 2
The PCs are given free tickets to the zoo in the city from the inn where they’re staying. Sure. The zoo is full of strange and unusual creatures.

“While passing by the tiger cage they see a beautiful unclothed woman in the cage with the big cats. She calls out to the PCs for help, crying that she is hurt and trapped, and needs their help to escape the cage.” No, don’t go get the zookeeper, she needs someone to come in and get her right now.

Of course, if you are in the proper AD&D 2E mindset, you will realize that no virtuous woman would be unclothed in public in any circumstances, and therefore this unclothed woman is definitely an evil monster. She’s a weretiger, specifically. You can tell because the tigers seem completely unconcerned by her presence.

If you do save her, she’s thankful. I guess she was just… accidentally captured in tiger form? If you refuse, she gets upset, shifts into were-form, and tries to grab a PC close by the bars. Bad move; you’d think if she was patient enough to wait for a moment to escape, she’d be patient enough to not lose her cool. I guess the fear is that any zookeepers would see X-1 tigers and 1 woman and realize that something is up?

I just don’t want to run these woman trap encounters though. Pass.

P.S. I am deeply disappointed that this card is not titled something like “A Lady or a Tiger?”

EDIT: People pointed out that weretigers, unlike myriad other lycanthropes, aren't actually evil killers, so I was being way too harsh on this encounter. My mistake!


151: In the Deep Dark Forest
The trail the PCs are following gets narrower and there are huge webs on either side of it. They see motion in the trees. If they keep going, they’ll find the way back is now blocked by webs as well. If they keep going, the lead horse may break a leg in a hole trap. (When it throws the PC, they must “must roll a Dexterity check to determine whether or not he has broken any bones of his own.” 32 damage from a boulder thrown by a giant? Just walk it off. Thrown from a horse? High probability of broken bones.)

Anyway, two ettercaps and some giant spiders attack. It’s just a combat encounter, and it’s telegraphed incredibly obviously. I think I have to pass.

Dallbun fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Aug 8, 2020

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

Are you happy now?

Dallbun posted:

149: Not Exactly Monkeys on the Interstate, Part 1 of 2
The PCs come to a big city that even has a zoo (“public menagerie”). The entrance is near the market. The PCs are present when there are screams and crashing, and an earth elemental busts free. What kind of menagerie has elementals? We get no details on it.

Not much here, it’s just an elemental attack in the city with no twists or anything. I guess that’s pretty unusual for a city encounter, so there’s that, but geez, it’s just so boring. What’s the follow-up? Pass.

This card should be called Not my monkey, not my circus.. The PC's watch the mayhem and eat popcorn from a vendor.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Comstar posted:

Is there building a Kingdom version of HOW TO HOST A DUNGEON? I think I'm going to buy it, but I really want one I can try and use to give my Oathmark kingdom a back story. I might end up using the old 2nd AD&D World Builders Guidebook, but I'm looking for something more...modern.

Oh poo poo that would be brilliant!

Seconding this request!

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

An elemental attack in a city should be the hitherto unseen and terrifying Pizza Elemental.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

There's potential in an encounter to extradite a were-creature out of the embarrassing situation of being caught by zookeepers, but of course they went with the lazy "Sexy woman bad".

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

I know this is always a good thread but drat we've gotten some real bangers on the last couple pages, between Star Wars Life, How to Host a Dungeon, and more Degenesis (i love you stupid game), plus Sigmar eternal. Cheers to all of you for continuing to make this one of the best threads on the forums.

It helps just how wide the variety is right now: board games, loreposts, bad RPGs, better RPGs...

(ps thanks)

Comstar posted:

Is there building a Kingdom version of HOW TO HOST A DUNGEON? I think I'm going to buy it, but I really want one I can try and use to give my Oathmark kingdom a back story. I might end up using the old 2nd AD&D World Builders Guidebook, but I'm looking for something more...modern.

The 1st edition is a lot less based on reaching down from the surface than the second seems to be; the only interaction it has are some possibilities in the geography stage and surface kingdoms that occasionally send adventures down. If you’re interested, I recommend using its rules but flipping the results 90 degrees; think of chambers as occupied regions, switch the monster types out for surface equivalents, and pretend groups coming in from above or below or whatever are coming from adjacent areas. Takes some rethinking, and the age of monsters in the first edition is a lot longer and same-ier than this, but if you’re world building that’s probably not an issue. You can probably do that with second edition, too, but I don’t know it as well so :shrug:

Ultiville
Jan 14, 2005

The law protects no one unless it binds everyone, binds no one unless it protects everyone.

Robindaybird posted:

There's potential in an encounter to extradite a were-creature out of the embarrassing situation of being caught by zookeepers, but of course they went with the lazy "Sexy woman bad".

Not that I'd keep the card without removing the nudity and adding some more detail about why freeing her might be difficult, but is it actually bad here? Per the summary of the card, if you free her she's grateful.

Is it just bad because weretigers are listed as "always evil" so you presumably freed some evil creature? It kind of seemed like helping her wasn't bad there.

Snorb
Nov 19, 2010

Night10194 posted:

An elemental attack in a city should be the hitherto unseen and terrifying Pizza Elemental.

It's like a Decanter of Endless Pizza once you finally manage to contain it! (I see a fellow Quest For Glory fan!)

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



Ultiville posted:

Not that I'd keep the card without removing the nudity and adding some more detail about why freeing her might be difficult, but is it actually bad here? Per the summary of the card, if you free her she's grateful.

Is it just bad because weretigers are listed as "always evil" so you presumably freed some evil creature? It kind of seemed like helping her wasn't bad there.
This kinda reminds me of a funny situation in dwarf fort caused by differing ethics between civilizations. Elves consider tiger men to be animals and cage them for domestication and will have them for sale in their caravans. Dwarves rightly consider tigermen sapient beings and thus this is slavery, and slavery is wrong. So if you buy a tigerman off an elf caravan he is immediately freed and just starts walking around as a normal citizen. However because he or she cannot understand dwarf they cannot be assigned labors and just wander around non-verbally socializing. This tends to get them lots of friends which in turn means they are usually elected mayor.

edit: evidently elves thinking tigermen are animals was removed in the most recent version, but it's still an interesting emergent gameplay bit, even if it was unintentional.

The encounter card has a kinda weird implied backstory. Either the zookeeper made an honest mistake and the weretiger lady was good natured enough to not use her supernatural power to kill a normal dude just grabbing tigers for a zoo, or the zookeeper knows he has a sapient being as a zoo exhibit and is thus the villain. Either way it doesn't really make sense for the twist of her being a weretiger mean she shouldn't be helped.

Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Aug 7, 2020

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Age of Sigmar Lore Chat: Stormcast Eternals
Destroyers of Evil



The Knights Excelsior, also known as the Holy Destroyers, the White Executioners and the Annihilators All. Their colors are white and blue, and they are very bad at nuance. They view things in clear colors - usually black and white - and think in terms only of good and evil. They also favor total victory, defined as annihilating the enemy as utterly as possible. They are extremely communal in their thinking as well, emphasizing the unit as a whole over individual heroics. They operate in almost mechanical unison, bound tightly together by the teachings of the first and greatest of their Stormhost, the Shining Lord.

Tactically, they favor melee combat and massive destructive power. Their primary base is the Stormkeep called the Consecralium in Excelsis, and their battles leave behind only ash and lightning burns. It is notable that the Knights Excelsior, while strict and merciless in pursuit of their foes and of corruption in the cities they live in, do understand the importance of sparing people - at least when those people can be useful to the war effort. That said, they evoke fear in the mortal populace regardless - their sentences aren't kind if they think you're evil.



The Celestial Warbringers are also called the the Seers of War, the Masters of Portent and the Mystical Eye. Their colors are red and white, and they love fighting. This is because the entire Stormhost is from the same tribe, a clan of mystics and warriors who were said to be able to foresee their own final deaths. They claim to retain this ability as Stormcast, and it makes them fearless and even joyful in battle, as they know it is not their time yet. Their tribal ties to each other can make them a bit dismissive of outsiders, but they are lively, fun-loving sorts who enjoy feasting and celebrations.

The Warbringers are the first among the Second Striking Stormhosts, the second wave of Stormcast. They have a higher number of Sacrosanct Chambers than most other Stormhosts, as their mystics attempt to make the most use of celestial magic to foresee the future and guide their tribe. Their spiritual leader is the Golden Patriarch, who commands their Lords-Ordinator in building many Warscryer Citadels, seeking out visions not only of their own futures but those of whole mortal nations, to better know where the key points to strike at Chaos and Death might lie. They are sometimes known as Sigmar's Spear for the lightning that is said to fly before each of their strikes.



The Tempest Lords, also known as the Host on High, the Blue-Blooded, and the Rulers Above. Their colors are blue and red. They are a Stormhost made only from nobles, each a member of a Sigmarite dynasty from Hysh. They honor their goddess Mirmidh, She Who Rules, equally with Sigmar. They may not be the best tacticians among the Stormcast, but they have a true gift for grand strategy and long-term planning. While they hail from noble lineages, each is still a hero worthy of the Stormcast, and they are devoted to rulership not as a tool of power but as a tool of betterment for all mortals. They would protect their people not only with law, but with their own bodies, taking the field to defend the people of Order easily and quickly.

The Tempest Lords are notable for their arrogance, though. Sigmar once told them that each of them was equal to a dozen mortal warriors, and they took this in a literal sense. They heavily favor Angels Conclaves, using high mobility to attack foes from above and expecting a tally of twelve kills at least per warrior. They take an active hand in rule in cities they defend, and their talent for rhetoric and stirring speeches usually makes them beloved by those they rule, inspiring them to reach for something greater. It helps that they are genuine in their care for the common people and their desire to better their lives.



The Astral Templars are also called the Beast-Slayers, Heavens' Claw and the Bane of Tyrants. Their colors are maroon and gold, and they are proud of their long history of being "barbarians." The Stormhost is drawn from warlike tribes, fierce in battle and unruly in demeanor but pure and true of heart. They feel at home in the field more than the city, and they absolutely adore monster hunting. The bigger and nastier the monsters, the better. The leaders of the Astral Templars are even more ferocious than their men, absolutely adoring single combat with creatures far larger than themselves.

The Templars cloak themselves in furs and pelts over their sigmarite armor to honor their past, and their tribal rituals honor the godbeast Ursricht, the White Bear. Their stories say that he can appear as a white-haired man, but he can take on the form of gigantic bear monster whenever he wants. They seek to emulate his power and valor in battle, hunting down other predators that would menace their cubs - that is to say, mortal lives. Their pride over their trophies is nothing next to their desire to cast down the great Chaos-tainted monsters they see as the symbols that inspire the forces of evil.

Next time: Leaders of heroes

Ultiville
Jan 14, 2005

The law protects no one unless it binds everyone, binds no one unless it protects everyone.

Terrible Opinions posted:

This kinda reminds me of a funny situation in dwarf fort caused by differing ethics between civilizations. Elves consider tiger men to be animals and cage them for domestication and will have them for sale in their caravans. Dwarves rightly consider tigermen sapient beings and thus this is slavery, and slavery is wrong. So if you buy a tigerman off an elf caravan he is immediately freed and just starts walking around as a normal citizen. However because he or she cannot understand dwarf they cannot be assigned labors and just wander around non-verbally socializing. This tends to get them lots of friends which in turn means they are usually elected mayor.

edit: evidently elves thinking tigermen are animals was removed in the most recent version, but it's still an interesting emergent gameplay bit, even if it was unintentional.

The encounter card has a kinda weird implied backstory. Either the zookeeper made an honest mistake and the weretiger lady was good natured enough to not use her supernatural power to kill a normal dude just grabbing tigers for a zoo, or the zookeeper knows he has a sapient being as a zoo exhibit and is thus the villain. Either way it doesn't really make sense for the twist of her being a weretiger mean she shouldn't be helped.

Yeah agreed, I'm not interested in this card as a "aha, you shouldn't have helped her!" situation. It just didn't look like that was the case from the card summary. Maybe there are some details in there that got glossed over that change it.

In any case, it's also missing some information I'd want, like what you highlighted there, to create some sort of clear conflict or larger situation to interact with than just "throw the lady a rope, move on with life."

noether
May 1, 2017

some kinda cutesy shoggoth

Mors Rattus posted:

I like that you can play Ki-Adi-Mundi, student of Ki-Adi-Mundi.

he's got two brains right? the one on top is teaching the one on the bottom!

mellonbread
Dec 20, 2017
HOW TO HOST A DUNGEON - PART 4: THE AGE OF VILLAINY


Welcome to the Age of Villainy. It’s like the Age of Monsters, but with Villains!

In all seriousness, the Age of Villainy plays using the same rules as the Age of Monsters, but whichever Monster ascended to Villainy gets a special template that grants them additional actions per-turn.

Ordinarily, there are two ways a Monster becomes the Villain: by reaching six population, or by reaching six treasure. That means that Ants, Rats and Farmers are prime candidates, due to their ability to generate population, money or both at-will. That’s not to say it’s a foregone conclusion. A Monster that Hunts or Fights them will keep them from snowballing, and there are plenty of other creatures that can take up the mantle if things play out differently. In my test game, a Medusa became Empress of the dungeon through adroit financial management and Hunting wealthy Denizens.

A Villain that acquires six population becomes the Horde, while one that acquires six treasure becomes the Empire. There are a number of special victory conditions that allow some Monsters to become Villains through other means, like the Wizard achieving lichdom. In those cases, you just choose one or the other. The Horde was the obvious choice for the Rats after achieving Apotheosis.

The Horde gets an ALWAYS Scout, meaning they can effectively locate other Monsters for free. They get a free population point IF their population is below six. They get the option to Fight Denizens and Rout Alpha Predators (in case the Monster that ascended didn’t already have these). Most powerful of all, they get the ability to Exterminate any neighboring group they outnumber by spending three population, one point of which they immediately recover on doing so.

During the Age of Villainy, the Monster spawn rate is reduced. New Monsters appear in the dungeon only on turns where one or more Monsters were eliminated.

I made a couple mistakes this run, and I think they basically cancelled out. I gave the Rats the free Breed action even when they were above six population, because I thought it was an ALWAYS clause. And I spawned monsters even on turns where nobody got eliminated. So more Monsters were entering the dungeon than should have been, but the Rats were also culling them faster. The end result was that the game took longer than it should have.

So let’s get into it.

When we last left off, the Rats had just finished their turn by corrupting the strata they’re on.



Corrupting a Strata is a Finishing Move, and it’s how the Horde wins the game by taking over the dungeon completely. At the end of their turn, if the Horde has population tokens on an uncorrupted Strata, and no other Monsters occupy that Strata, it’s automatically Corrupted. Once all Strata are Corrupted, the Horde wins.

We were in the middle of a turn when we left off, so we draw another card, and the Adventurers go next. They know the Antlings have treasure, so they attack them to get a piece. It doesn’t go well, and the Adventurers are reduce to a single point of population. Their card says they quit the dungeon and retire at that point, so they’re removed from the game.

On the surface, the Farmers Harvest their fields as a free action, and spend the wealth they just earned on fortifications.



The Experts realize the Rats are now an existential threat to the whole Dungeon. They attack them with everything they have, but die trying.

The Antlings continue to burrow and explore. They dig down deep enough to find a biome that they can harvest in the future.



The turn is over, so we draw another card.



The Fiend rolls Strata 2 for her starting area. I decide that she takes up residence in the old tunnels the Experts dug by the cooling tower, emerging occasionally to gently caress with the people in the farming village.



Top of the order, the Antlings go first. They Breed and fight the Rats, who they now understand are a serious threat rather than a temporary obstacle. The Rats win. This slugging match will continue for a while.

The Farmers harvest more grain and use the profits to build a silo.

The Rats Breed, attack the Ants, lose, and Breed some more as a free Horde action. They’re also the only occupants of Strata 3, so they Corrupt it at the end of their turn.



The Fiend Allies with the rats, recognizing them as a major problem that could easily overrun her. An Allegiance is a conflict, where the initiating party rolls versus the target, like a Fight. If the “attacker” succeeds, the target can’t take hostile action against them for a full turn.

Next, we draw another card. This was the first card I actually wasn’t supposed to draw, but I didn’t know that at the time.



I… genuinely don’t know what the hell is going on with these guys.

Anyway, we dice for a spawn location, and they end up in one of the lightless caves at the bottom of the board. Fitting, since they have no idea how they got there.



Top of the order, the Farmers go first. They increase their wealth and population.

The Rats take their automatic Breed action, then their free Horde Breed action (again, I got this one wrong) and then attack the Ants for free with their IF action. They don’t outnumber the ants yet, but once they do, they can use Overrun to eliminate them all at once. They end the turn by spending a point of wealth on a Hecatomb at the temple, to grant them a star that they can spend in future combat encounters.

The Antlings breed and attack the Rats, but lose the fight. Losing that point of population now puts them below the ability to keep pace with the Rats, which will soon spell their demise.

The Fiend rolls to maintain her alliance with the Rats, and succeeds. By forming an Alliance with somebody who has a bonus star, she also gets one that she can spend in a future engagement.

The Awakened explore upward with their ALWAYS action and find the frozen lake. They build a fusion chamber with their IF action, right outside the older (less efficient) Dwarven design. Then they use their remaining action to expand their population.



End of turn, another card (again, I wasn’t supposed to do this) gets us Brazenkragg, the City of Legend.



I drop it on the lake, since it looks cool there.



Top of the order, the Awakened Explore some more and spend an action fortifying the reactor complex.

Not to be outdone by the newly arrived Brazenkragg, the Farmers spend some of their hoarded wealth to raise a city of their own, on the shore of the lake.



The Antlings attack the Rats, desperately trying to reduce their population below the threshold for an Extermination. The Antlings fail.

The Fiend keeps up her alliance with the Rats. She never actually bothers the Farmers because they aren’t Good aligned, and she only cares about loving with Good people.

Brazenkragg tries and fails to extort the Fiend, who’s substantially weaker than the well defended Farmers. Failing that, they build a Wizard’s Quarter and get a star for their troubles, to be spent in a future conflict.

The Rats Breed and Exterminate the Antlings, spending three population to overrun and eliminate them. Since that leaves them with uncontested control of Strata 5, they Corrupt it.



Since the Ants were eliminated, spawning another Monster at the end of the turn was actually the right choice. We draw some Fungaliths.



They spawn on the same layer as the Rats. This is not good for the Fungaliths, since they need to either eliminate other groups or harvest biomes to achieve anything. Hemmed in like this, they don't achieve anything of note for the rest of the game.

Top of the order, the Farmers attempt an alliance with Brazenkragg, but fail to establish diplomatic relations.

The Fungaliths scout the caverns around them, spreading mycelium and coming into contact with the rats.

The Fiend desperately tries to maintain her Alliance with the Rats, but fails.

Brazenkragg brings in the mages to put the screws to the Fiend, and persuades her to part with some treasure. They spend it on a Stepwell, to increase the maximum population they can support.

The Awakened know the Rats are a threat, and savagely attack their scouts. The Rats win.

The Rats increase their population, overrun and destroy the Fiend, and Corrupt Strata 2.

The round ends with the appearance of a Blue Wizard in the dungeon.



She enters the dungeon through the old Dwarven tunnels that brought the first settlers, looking for magical artifacts and knowledge.



Top of the order, the Fungaliths decide the Rats are worth paying off to leave them alone. They successfully offer a point of treasure to keep the rodents off their backs.

The Awakened attack the Rats, and lose again. The situation is getting desperate.

The ever-prosperous Farmers keep stacking treasure and population.

The Rats burst forth onto the surface and completely overrun the Farmers, Exterminating them.

The totally amoral Blue Wizard is uninterested in developments on the surface world. She uses her command of the world’s language to open trade negotiations with the Rats, purchasing a mystical boon from them. She then uses this magical knowledge to construct an omphalos. Presumably, since the blessing originated in the Temple, this object has some religious significance to the Rats.

Brazenkragg successfully deals some damage to the Rats, buying themselves some false hope.

The Fungaliths are hemmed in and not willing to spend any population fighting the Rats.

The Awakened frantically increase their numbers, knowing what’s about to happen.

The Rats overrun and Exterminate Brazenkragg, corrupting the surface in the process.

The Blue Wizard tries to trade with the Awakened for some of their technology, but they rip her off and she ends up with nothing of value.

At the end of the round, a Wizard takes up residence in the old Fiend lair.



Top of the order, the Blue Wizard visits the monochrome Wizard, and buys some arcane secrets off him.

The Fungaliths are cowed into mycological terror by the Rats.

The Wizard exploits the Dwarven Tomb below the Fiend lair, plundering it for arcane power.

The Rats descend into the Shrine of Starhelm and defile it, Corrupting Layer 6

The Awakened fight the rats and force them back.

At the end of the round, a Vampire takes up residence in the dungeon.



At the top of the order, the Vampire realizes she’s in harm’s way. The Rats need to exterminate everything on a floor in order to Corrupt it. But once the floor is Corrupt, they’re less interested in killing things that move into it. She uses her IF action to migrate up into the Citadel, then her ALWAYS action to pick off some Rats for food. Then, to make sure she isn’t targeted for deletion, she forges an Alliance with the Rats for good measure.

The Rats Breed and attack the awakened. The awakened win the skirmish, then the Rats overrun them anyway.

The Fungaliths notice that the Rat population is substantially reduced after repeatedly overrunning their enemies. They seize this opportunity to attack, but fail to make any gains.

The Wizard exploits the Dwarven tomb, then uses the power he stored up to attack the Rats, thinking the same thing as the Fungaliths. He has more success, carving off a point of population.

The Blue Wizard descends back into the cold lake to see what Awakened technology she can salvage, after the Rats poo poo up the place.

A Giant enters the dungeon on Layer 4, but swiftly relocates to avoid the Rat Horde.





Next turn, the Blue Wizard descends the tunnels left by the Awakened, to Exploit the underground biome there.

The Rats use their ALWAYS and IF actions to Breed, their IF action to attack the Fungaliths (which they fail) and then Overwhelm the Wizard in the Dwarven Tombs.

The Fungaliths attack the Vampire, hoping to use her for mulch and replenish their declining population. The Vampire kills them.

The Vampire Hunts some rats.

The Giant digs out some ore and builds himself a Castle in the ruins of the old Dwarven power station, overlooking the four Magma Seas and the Glass Desert.

An Ogre Mage makes his home in the oft-occupied Fiend Lair.



First in the draw, the Ogre mage opens the turn by hunting some Rats.

The Giant hunts Rats and extorts them, not realizing how much danger he’s in.

The Rats Breed, descend to the final Strata and Overwhelm the Blue Mage, who would have lived if she’d just stayed one level up and out of their way.

Without anyone on the eighth Strata, the Rats Corrupt it. With all eight Strata Corrupted, the Rats win.

Survivors: Rats, Giant, Vampire, Ogre Mage.

The final map looks like this



The Age of Villainy. Was it fun? Yes. Was it exhausting? Also yes. Even without my mistakes, the Rats had the ability to Breed so prodigiously that they were almost guaranteed to Exterminate one enemy per turn, making their victory a foregone conclusion. Yet it still took several rounds of grinding out the actions of the other factions, none of which were significant. The Age of Civilization didn’t take long at all, but Villainy and Monsters together took an entire afternoon, and then some.

I like the final map. The Giant with a castle in the Glass Desert is cool. A Vampire stalking an abandoned Dwarven train station is cool. A Horde of Rats is boring and overdone, but left the map full of holes and burrows and other little details.


Comstar posted:

Is there building a Kingdom version of HOW TO HOST A DUNGEON? I think I'm going to buy it, but I really want one I can try and use to give my Oathmark kingdom a back story. I might end up using the old 2nd AD&D World Builders Guidebook, but I'm looking for something more...modern.

Falconier111 posted:

The 1st edition is a lot less based on reaching down from the surface than the second seems to be; the only interaction it has are some possibilities in the geography stage and surface kingdoms that occasionally send adventures down. If you’re interested, I recommend using its rules but flipping the results 90 degrees; think of chambers as occupied regions, switch the monster types out for surface equivalents, and pretend groups coming in from above or below or whatever are coming from adjacent areas. Takes some rethinking, and the age of monsters in the first edition is a lot longer and same-ier than this, but if you’re world building that’s probably not an issue. You can probably do that with second edition, too, but I don’t know it as well so :shrug:
The second edition mechanics could easily be recycled, but the meat of the game are the cards and tables, which you'd have to make yourself. At that point, you'd basically be writing your own game from scratch anyway.

Rosemont posted:

I don't care if it's a reference, I really like the story of the ratpeople. :allears:

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

I know this is always a good thread but drat we've gotten some real bangers on the last couple pages, between Star Wars Life, How to Host a Dungeon, and more Degenesis (i love you stupid game), plus Sigmar eternal. Cheers to all of you for continuing to make this one of the best threads on the forums.

Joe Slowboat posted:

I went and got the free version of HTHAD 2nd edition because of this review, because I love little history generators with weird interactions and stuff, I'll have fun doodling it.

Meinberg posted:

Yeah, can’t lie, this seems like a real cool dungeon generator.

MonsterEnvy posted:

It is. I would like to see a second attempt at it just see what changes.
I’m going to create a couple more Dungeons using the other Civilizations. I’ll give summaries rather than blow-by-blow accounts, and present the end results.

I have four choices of civ.
  • Alien
  • Deep Elf
  • Demon
  • Magician
Reply with the one you want to see next. I’ll probably do the top two vote getters in the next post.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



Ultiville posted:

Yeah agreed, I'm not interested in this card as a "aha, you shouldn't have helped her!" situation. It just didn't look like that was the case from the card summary. Maybe there are some details in there that got glossed over that change it.

In any case, it's also missing some information I'd want, like what you highlighted there, to create some sort of clear conflict or larger situation to interact with than just "throw the lady a rope, move on with life."
Unfortunately your take is more interesting than the card itself. Here's the full text.

The Pcs are given free tickets to
the zoo from the inn where they are staying. As they travel about the zoo they see
many strange and outright unusual creatures from all over the realm, as well as
numerous mundane, ordinary animals.
While passing the tiger cage they see a
beautiful unclothed woman in the cage
with the big cats. She calls out to the Pcs
for help, crying that she is hurt and
trapped, and needs their help to escape the
cage.
If the Pcs help her out of the cage she
responds gratefully. However, if they suggest calling the keeper, she urges them to
rescue her now. An Intelligence check
means the Pc has noted she seems to be in
no apparent danger of attack from the
beasts. Indeed, they react almost like
house cats around her, if they are not ignoring her completely.
The Pcs must choose between the lady
and the tigers. If they refuse to release her,
she becomes infuriated and changes to her
weretiger form. She springs forward,
throwing herself against the bars of the
cage in an attempt to grab any of the Pcs
standing near the enclosure

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E
Definitely, definitely alien. Deep elf and demon were in 1st ed and I don’t care about magicians.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
I would like Demon.

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements



Alien sounds like a fun change of pace.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Alien civilization!

Rosemont
Nov 4, 2009
Aliens and Demons sound good.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Night10194 posted:

An elemental attack in a city should be the hitherto unseen and terrifying Pizza Elemental.

You know, thinking about it, I'm surprised there's no fanmade PnP version of the QfG universe.

Ithle01
May 28, 2013
Gotta say Alien as my choice.

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BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000

Dallbun posted:

144: Shopping Trip
In a busy marketplace, the PCs are passing by a weaponsmith’s when a burly, heavily-armored warrior comes up to them and starts swinging around his unusually-designed bastard sword, speaking in an unknown language that sounds like “guttural gibberish”.

He is not actually attacking, he is a weapons fanatic who is very excited to show off his newest acquisition to the party’s warriors.

Hmm. I’m not sure why he’s confidently speaking his language in a region where people have never even heard it before. Shouldn’t he be speaking halting Common if he’s a beginning CSL learner? I dunno. Seems a little contrived, and a little “gotcha” if the PCs accidentally murder an innocent man. Then again, he is a man who swings large swords around in busy marketplaces, so maybe “innocent” isn’t the right word.

Eh. Keep but have him clearly not be attacking, and let the party make the acquaintance of this F9 weapons nerd. “Doesn’t talk much” and “enthusiastic about one specific thing” is exactly the correct amount of personality for a D&D henchman.

P.S. The guy’s stat block lists his damage as “Damage by weapon (bastard sword).” That is where you put the damage for the bastard sword. That is the point of the stat block.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17weg7weEkQ

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