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Do Star Fleet ships ever drop off the children and other family members before heading to a big battle? Timmy, daddy is very busy preparing for an important meeting at Wolf 359 tomorrow, so just keep yourself busy on the Holodeck today, ok.
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Aug 5, 2020 17:53
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:Do Star Fleet ships ever drop off the children and other family members before heading to a big battle? IIRC the in DS9 the Galaxy what got blowed up by the Dominion did that before going through the wormhole but I'm not sure? Spoilered because someone in YOSPOS (besides me, I mean) is doing a DS9 watch-through and I don't want to be that guy?
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Aug 5, 2020 18:00
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I think the idea with Star Trek is that there's no civilian ownership of ships, and the writers can't for the life of them think of anything interesting about the Federation other than the flying around the universe in spaceships thing, so everything outside of Starfleet is extremely shallow and unexplored.THE BAR posted:It still annoys me to no end, that the Entreprise-D doesn't have a science officer. Anything vaguely sciency is either handled by Geordi in Engineering or Crusher in Medical. I think the idea of a generic science officer is weird and abstract. Like one person is going to be master of all scientific fields at once instead of having individual experts for individual fields. More of a lazy conceit to centralize all exposition than a plausible position on a crew. Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:Do Star Fleet ships ever drop off the children and other family members before heading to a big battle? They had the idea in the first episode of TNG that the civilians all live in the saucer and that part can detach and retreat somewhere safe when they get into a dangerous situation, but they never really did it again. Which creates some kind of reasoning for the weird, weird design of federation ships, but then again, it's not clear how the saucer is supposed to move without the engine bits. It's all weird.
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Aug 5, 2020 18:55
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Star Trek absolutely has civilian ships, usually shuttles and freighters and suchSlothfulCobra posted:I think the idea of a generic science officer is weird and abstract. Like one person is going to be master of all scientific fields at once instead of having individual experts for individual fields. In theory that's actually how it works; the science officer is basically the head of research for a particular vessel and on larger ones like the Enterprise oversees a dept of specialists, and something similar goes for the medical officer. Bones at one point says Dr M'Benga is better at treating Vulcans, since he did his doctorate on Vulcan. Also the thing with evacuating warships of civilians before going into battle reminds me of the webcomic Schlock Mercenary; the setting specifically has a huge tech revolution or two as it goes from basically using Stargates to a recieverless teleporter as the standard method of transport, and the biggest human warships, known as Battleplates, (originally designed to use gravity control (because artificial gravity is an incredibly powerful weapon) to counter relativistic projectiles) are suddenly viable in offensive warfare when they were previously purely defensive (because they were too big to fit through wormgates); and since their superstructure is so big and modular, they actually teleport the civilian pods out before heading off to battle, leaving much of their inner space hollow.
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Aug 5, 2020 19:26
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In almost every series, probably all, there are multiple episodes of the crews running into privately owned ships that are out to make a buck, or colonize such and such a planet or explore some galactic phenomenon. What exactly do you think Harry Mudd was doing with all those tribbles?
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Aug 5, 2020 19:32
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Making memes?
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Aug 5, 2020 19:37
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In fact many - perhaps most? - of the human planets in the Federation were colonized before the Federation and Star Fleet even existed!
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Aug 5, 2020 19:40
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:What exactly do you think Harry Mudd was doing with all those tribbles? Cyrano Jones was the guy selling Tribbles. Mudd sold women.
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Aug 5, 2020 19:42
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Cerv posted:Cyrano Jones was the guy selling Tribbles. Mudd sold women. gently caress
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Aug 5, 2020 19:43
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Data was originally the science officer on TNG. He was supposed to have a blue shirt but it clashed with the makeup (or something) so they put him in a gold shirt and came up with the 'Operations Officer' title instead.SlothfulCobra posted:They had the idea in the first episode of TNG that the civilians all live in the saucer and that part can detach and retreat somewhere safe when they get into a dangerous situation, but they never really did it again. Yeah, that was the intent but the saucer separation sequence really slowed down episodes so they only did it a couple of times in the entire series. The Ent D's saucer has impulse (sublight) engines at the back but no warp engines so it's a sitting duck when separated.
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Aug 6, 2020 02:57
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It makes a little more visual sense on some of the later Starfleet ships where the saucer isn't like 85% of the ship's mass, unlike the Galaxy-class.
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Aug 6, 2020 04:06
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1000 Brown M and Ms posted:Yeah, that was the intent but the saucer separation sequence really slowed down episodes so they only did it a couple of times in the entire series. It also cost them way too much money to film, hence why they use it only like one time after the first season. The Big D had all kinds of neat things it was supposed to do that while filming the first season they realized they in no way could afford, including lotsa lovely pieces of garbage tech. My favorite was "Cetacean Ops" where they were supposed to have a tank full of dolphins who navigated the ship. Because living in the ocean means they understand 3-Dimensional navigation better you see. Man that 90's "Save the Whales/Dolphins" movement was something. Don't get me wrong It's correct to save them, It's just weird how "spiritual" it got portraying them as like these New Age enlightened beings we could learn so much from instead of, you know, dolphins.
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Aug 6, 2020 12:21
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galagazombie posted:It also cost them way too much money to film, hence why they use it only like one time after the first season. The Big D had all kinds of neat things it was supposed to do that while filming the first season they realized they in no way could afford, including lotsa lovely pieces of garbage tech. My favorite was "Cetacean Ops" where they were supposed to have a tank full of dolphins who navigated the ship. Because living in the ocean means they understand 3-Dimensional navigation better you see. Man that 90's "Save the Whales/Dolphins" movement was something. Don't get me wrong It's correct to save them, It's just weird how "spiritual" it got portraying them as like these New Age enlightened beings we could learn so much from instead of, you know, dolphins. Whales, yes. Dolphins is jerks though. I wish we got to see the Captain's Gig (it's in the NCC-1701D Technical Manual which was literally (literally-literally, not literally-figuratively) my most-prized possession when I was an literal childe of 10). E: I remember spending literally (see above) an hour in the book store (Harry W. Schwartz's: "MKE represent!" (as the kids say these days)) agonizing over whether to get the TOS or TNG one (I liked TNG but BVMU liked TOS and we were watching all the movies together because BVMF was more of a Tolkien fan who literally read the goddamn Silmarillion but never really did SciFi outside of A Canticle for Leibowitz). Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 14:30
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galagazombie posted:My favorite was "Cetacean Ops" where they were supposed to have a tank full of dolphins who navigated the ship. Because living in the ocean means they understand 3-Dimensional navigation better you see. This general idea wound up being an entire major faction in Sword of the Stars. No tech in Sword of the Stars was lovely  though the game's insistence on an actually 3D star map was 1) cool and 2) headache inducing enough that I get why most games don't do that.
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Aug 6, 2020 15:08
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galagazombie posted:It's just weird how "spiritual" it got portraying them as like these New Age enlightened beings we could learn so much from instead of, you know, dolphins. "Captain, the dolphin navigator is refusing to steer us out of this nebula unless we agree to throw a severed fish head into their tank for them to masturbate with." "Make it so, number one." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iZ1ywBK2X4 Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 16:28
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TNG was also a century after space whales almost wiped out all of humanity. Not intentionally, just because their automated probe's signal somehow had the capacity to destroy the planet somehow. Which actually fits in with the idea that was in the movies and early TNG that a comprehensive scan of the ship was a pretty traumatic thing that could cause real damage if it wasn't calibrated right. That was another idea that was dropped because it's easier for the plot to just scan everything left and right. 1000 Brown M and Ms posted:Yeah, that was the intent but the saucer separation sequence really slowed down episodes so they only did it a couple of times in the entire series. The Ent D's saucer has impulse (sublight) engines at the back but no warp engines so it's a sitting duck when separated. Yeah, just like how they stopped using shuttles because they got so tired of the sequence where they load it up, do routine safety procedures, and launch slowed down every episode they were in.
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Aug 6, 2020 17:19
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Tulip posted:This general idea wound up being an entire major faction in Sword of the Stars. I always wanted a 3D map of the Inner Sphere but it turns out the Battletech creators were reading the star maps wrong when they created it and in real life this stars are wayyyyy different lengths from each other. So essentially every Battletech fan just agrees to pretend there’s no Z-axis in space
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Aug 6, 2020 17:20
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GD_American posted:I always wanted a 3D map of the Inner Sphere but it turns out the Battletech creators were reading the star maps wrong when they created it and in real life this stars are wayyyyy different lengths from each other. Inner Circle
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Aug 6, 2020 17:22
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Tulip posted:This general idea wound up being an entire major faction in Sword of the Stars. I saw a fanon Star Trek map once that tried to do this to reconcile some of the distance discrepancies, having some territories/locations overlap on the Z-axis so that some of the Gorn Hegemony was "over" the Federation and such, and yes it quickly causes more problems than it solves. The big one being that it causes you to question how traditional terrestrial concepts of territory and boundaries would even apply to a topography composed of pinpricks of useful area surrounded by incomprehensibly vast regions of empty void.
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Aug 7, 2020 13:48
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Most sci-fi is only comprehensible if you're assuming that luminiferous aether is a thing and that space is therefore literally a sea. It makes things easier if you treat this as the first point of divergence.
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Aug 7, 2020 13:52
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I do like how it gets even weirder in some cases like the Tholians, who have completely different priorities due to being adapted to a completely different climate that's mutually incompatible with humans, and they also might not be restricted to one dimension or time period.
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Aug 7, 2020 14:43
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McSpanky posted:I saw a fanon Star Trek map once that tried to do this to reconcile some of the distance discrepancies, having some territories/locations overlap on the Z-axis so that some of the Gorn Hegemony was "over" the Federation and such, and yes it quickly causes more problems than it solves. The big one being that it causes you to question how traditional terrestrial concepts of territory and boundaries would even apply to a topography composed of pinpricks of useful area surrounded by incomprehensibly vast regions of empty void. tbh the main thing I think about when I see a Star Trek map is "isn't like 90% of the economy and political power of each of these empires in their capital, what's even the point of the rest of this, is it symbolic claims?" SOTS it was actually relatively comprehensible, though if you were playing on some map types it did hurt to look at. One of the cool parts was that different factions had radically different FTLs, so like Hivers (my main bois) had a fairly uniformly expanding sphere while most people had networks or blobs with lunges. e: The Punishment Sphere from SMAC. Not that it doesn't work, it's in fact worse that it does. Tulip fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 15:09
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galagazombie posted:It also cost them way too much money to film, hence why they use it only like one time after the first season. The Big D had all kinds of neat things it was supposed to do that while filming the first season they realized they in no way could afford, including lotsa lovely pieces of garbage tech. My favorite was "Cetacean Ops" where they were supposed to have a tank full of dolphins who navigated the ship. Because living in the ocean means they understand 3-Dimensional navigation better you see. Man that 90's "Save the Whales/Dolphins" movement was something. Don't get me wrong It's correct to save them, It's just weird how "spiritual" it got portraying them as like these New Age enlightened beings we could learn so much from instead of, you know, dolphins. Wait, like in SeaQuest DSV?
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Aug 7, 2020 15:14
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Cats have incomprehensible territory maps because they time share. It’s okay if this is Peaches’ spot at sunset as long as she clears out so Tubbers can sit on it and yell at midnight.
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Aug 7, 2020 20:15
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General Battuta posted:Cats have incomprehensible territory maps because they time share. It’s okay if this is Peaches’ spot at sunset as long as she clears out so Tubbers can sit on it and yell at midnight. I do wonder if this can be tied in with the way cats (and dogs) communicate being informed as much by scent and other senses and thought processes than humans really understand. Mind you, anyone who's had roommates and/or siblings can probably understand that idea a bit.
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Aug 8, 2020 04:48
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One of the oldest forms of land use relationships between humans, transhumance, rests on the groups involved understanding that in a fairly long term (annual cycle) and intuitive basis. Or else you get killed by herders.
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Aug 8, 2020 04:58
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I thought Data was the science officer. Especially qualified being a superintelligent sentient computer. Data was supposed to be the science officer, but they couldn't figure out how to get his makeup to not look terrible in a blue uniform. EDIT: Should have read the next page. Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Aug 9, 2020 |
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Aug 9, 2020 19:23
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McSpanky posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwx5uB0pyhQ Interesting that he comes up with 8.9 million sqft for the Enterprise-D. Compare against this internal production memo from 1987:  Also interesting that the video brings up the crew comparison with the original Enterprise. It's not authoritative per se but as an insight into at least some of the behind-the-scenes thinking at the time, David Gerrold's novelization of Farpoint suggests that the "operations crew" (presumably excluding the various blue-shirts) of the Enterprise-D is in fact no larger than that of Kirk's Enterprise. galagazombie posted:It also cost them way too much money to film, hence why they use it only like one time after the first season. The Big D had all kinds of neat things it was supposed to do that while filming the first season they realized they in no way could afford, including lotsa lovely pieces of garbage tech. My favorite was "Cetacean Ops" where they were supposed to have a tank full of dolphins who navigated the ship. Because living in the ocean means they understand 3-Dimensional navigation better you see. Man that 90's "Save the Whales/Dolphins" movement was something. Don't get me wrong It's correct to save them, It's just weird how "spiritual" it got portraying them as like these New Age enlightened beings we could learn so much from instead of, you know, dolphins. Solkanar512 posted:Wait, like in SeaQuest DSV? TNG came out in 1987, well before the 90s. If I remember right the idea got floated by Sternbach, who was ripping it off of some anime, because Sternbach is a big anime nerd. There are numerous hidden background references to Dirty Pair throughout TNG... and a couple of really blatant ones too, in the form of two different models that are shaped like the robot Nanmo.
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Aug 9, 2020 22:39
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It is also pretty clearly a riff on David Brin's Uplift books which had intelligent dolphins serving on spaceships.
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Aug 9, 2020 22:46
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commander snorky is wheeled in in a bathtub to address the ready room
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Aug 10, 2020 01:15
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Barudak posted:I liked the episode of Ghost in the Shell: Hegelian Cops Unit with the anti-implant terrorist group basically being completely correct about their issues with the implants and how the government uses non implant status among refugees to exploit them and how that wasn't even the main theme of the episode, just a thing everyone involved kind just accepts. Lol I thought it was good after the first episode with Section 9 doing a pacifist run (Miss Yoko Kanno, tho, miss her lots) Also I'm intrigued by "Hegelian Cops Unit", I always saw Section 9 as some sort of living embodiment of the philosopher-king: a bunch of people with crazy amounts of power but it works out OK because they are completely honest and upright dedicated servants of the state McSpanky posted:This will absolutely become the shittiest piece of garbage tech in reality the very moment someone figures out how to interface computer hardware with brain tissue without killing the patient (biologically that is, the disease vector of the physical interface is the biggest unsolved problem). Maybe this is all Ghost in the Shell, but that recent series especially it seemed like every episode was a demonstration of why "HOLY poo poo GUYS IT'S A BAD IDEA TO WIRE YOUR BRAIN INTO THE INTERNET" People can't distinguish between the real and the virtual and are killed in cyber attacks An AI monster is reading the software in your brain and anticipating your every move Oh and of course having your mind overwritten making you a living botnet In previous stand alone series, they actually made a big deal about Section 9 members having different levels of augmentation, with like four members having only a harmless com-link. You kinda need that to explain why Boomer and Ishikarwa are even on the team; they are the tech dudes with little to no tech to hack, and are always using those awkward-rear end VR consoles. Now people are having to scream at each other "holy poo poo turn off your cyberbrain" which strikes me as a kind of microsoft in the late 90s solution to a very very bad problem I had to laugh at Batou in the last episode: damnit Batou, you had one job: make sure nothing weird happened to Togusa
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Aug 10, 2020 01:47
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galagazombie posted:. My favorite was "Cetacean Ops" where they were supposed to have a tank full of dolphins who navigated the ship. Because living in the ocean means they understand 3-Dimensional navigation better you see. They referenced that in the first Lower Decks episode
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Aug 10, 2020 01:52
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there are actually two TNG episodes that reference it; there's an overhead page in Yesterday's Enterprise calling someone to Cetacean Ops, and there's a brief line in The Perfect Mate where Geordi asks someone 'hey have you seen the whales yet?'
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Aug 10, 2020 03:47
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:If someone replicated a couple of M16's they could probably take over an entire starship. I remember an old DS9 novel where a group of hitherto-unknown aliens (who time traveled, but that's not the key thing here) effortlessly took over the station and killed just about everyone through a combination of technologies that utterly befuddled our heroes: mirrored armor that harmlessly deflected phasers, and primitive projectile-firing weapons that shields were useless against. I remember it being a lot of fun.
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Aug 10, 2020 19:19
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Armour that actually does anything is rare to the point of unknown in Star Trek TV, the games tend to have handwaves of 'personal force fields' with no canon grounding. Mostly that Star Trek treats phasers, disruptors and personal weapons in general basically as equivalent to current-day firearms.
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Aug 10, 2020 19:27
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The Borg have personal force fields. But, given that their tech is also incredibly more advanced that the Federation's and is still circumvented time after time, we can only assume every other species has no chance of making a personal force field which is worth a drat for more than a few seconds.
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Aug 10, 2020 19:34
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Is Borg tech actually more advanced? Seems like in the show their big advantage is that they have giant ships built with unlimited redundancies and the personnel to maintain/repair them.
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Aug 10, 2020 20:29
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:Is Borg tech actually more advanced? Seems like in the show their big advantage is that they have giant ships built with unlimited redundancies and the personnel to maintain/repair them. Yeah in the show their gimmick was that they were nigh-indestructible but the reason was because they were constantly adapting to everything and repairing stuff to take into account what broke it on the fly. So like when you shoot a phaser it tends to :technobabble: have a certain range of frequency that the energy blast is in. The Borg shields pick up on that quickly and adjust to it, the Federation and folks with phasers do stuff like set their phasers to randomly modulate what frequency they fire at and this allows them to somewhat penetrate Borg shields, but eventually even that can be adapted to which is why like even one or two fully working cubes are basically a planet/species ending situation if you don't have enough poo poo to throw at them to wear them down and why even a small number of Borg can completely gently caress up some folks.
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Aug 10, 2020 21:24
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Wow, a thread just for my boy Jet Alone. The only good thing to be said for it is that it has an onboard reactor and does not run out of battery power after five minutes like its Evangelion competitors. You'd think that sounds great. Well it's also slow and doesn't seem to have any combat capabilities, and that's before you get to the part where it also completely lacks the special magic AT field that you absolutely need to fight the enemies it's supposed to fight. Having its test run sabotaged was a mercy killing.  There he goes.
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Aug 11, 2020 08:27
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muscles like this! posted:It is also pretty clearly a riff on David Brin's Uplift books which had intelligent dolphins serving on spaceships. Startide Rising was the book that got me into sci fi. Too bad about the second trilogy though. For the thread: Transporters were never supposed to be in ST. The original plan was to have the Enterprise or whatever ships just land on planets, but that would've been too expensive with models and sets, and when it came time to film the pilot, the shooting model of the shuttle wasn't ready, so they came up with transporters, which cost next-to-nothing. So, that's why every writer for ST has to come up with some reason that the transporters, which would easily solve whatever problem, won't do that this time. Also remember when they used the transporter to de-age Dr. Pulaski and then forgot about and never told anyone about the loving FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH effect you get by messing around with some sliders in the transporter settings. We could probably come up with dozens of galaxy-transforming technological leaps made by rerouting and re configuring systems that never get brought up again.
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Aug 11, 2020 18:30
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