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God dammit. gently caress conflict and hard choices, there can only be an easy way out. Danica flashed back to her father talking about the helpers and then she... didn't try to help anyone? She just got opinions about what the conflict is about. You'd think she would start rescuing wounded people from both sides but instead she gets punched into an easy solution. For one panel I got my hopes up that by having both sides shoot at her we'd get some kind of stupid thing where by finding a new common enemy the two sides begin questioning their animosity. RRR, you don't need to post the next chapter, we all know that this can only go to her shaming the two fighting sides for not getting along like those other people. I loving love that he presented a nuanced, shades-of-grey moral view that was actually somewhat compelling only to explicitly reject it and assert black-and-white morality. It really tells you a lot about how he thinks as a person! I would die to see what he thinks about better stories.
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Aug 12, 2020 13:09
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I know! The lead up actually had me starting to be able to read the panels properly instead of my eyes just sliding off them (despite the utterly terrible designs for the elves which REALLY makes me think Mookie had something to do with it). Hell, the page with where Danica and questions and you see the two different answers was... Well, it had potential. And then once again, it had to snatch defeat right from the jaws of victory. Mookie really is a master class in someone who... Doesn't get stories? Hell, I reckon even I could come up with a better story. And I could think of no greater insult to a writer than that.
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Aug 12, 2020 13:18
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I can’t wait for mookie to rip Saga and introduce an offspring of the two sides
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Aug 12, 2020 13:51
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the yeti posted:I can’t wait for mookie to rip Saga and introduce an offspring of the two sides Saga?
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Aug 12, 2020 13:56
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Kavak posted:Saga? Really good then bad then good again comic book. It’s currently (still) in hiatus, I think. EDIT: god drat it’s really been 2 years since the hiatus started.
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Aug 12, 2020 13:58
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Really good then bad then good again comic book. It’s currently (still) in hiatus, I think. Aw, I only read a little of it, didn’t know it took a turn
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Aug 12, 2020 14:01
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the yeti posted:Aw, I only read a little of it, didn’t know it took a turn The “bad” wasn’t necessarily bad. It kinda just spun its wheels for a while before things really got moving again. I love the series and would love to see it continued/finished.
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Aug 12, 2020 14:03
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:EDIT: god drat it’s really been 2 years since the hiatus started. HunterXHunter eat your heart out.
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Aug 12, 2020 14:05
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Well what can I say, Star Power is unpredictable in how it fails. The shockwaves from the Mach 4 backpats Mookie gave himself must have been deafening. Yesss, yessss, what a smart twist from a smart boy. Who could’ve predicted a third, entirely innocent faction would have existed this whole time to expertly take a fat dump all over the tension and intrigue of the story. Halfway through this chapter I actually started to think Mookie was taking inspiration from conflicts in far off countries, where while the answers may look simple to those involved, Mookie (and Danica) as sheltered outsiders can’t even begin to understand. They can, at best, provide humanitarian support to civilians injured in the crossfire. Obviously the real answer is to start unloading hollow point democracy into anyone that looks like a threat. TheHan fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Aug 12, 2020 |
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Aug 12, 2020 14:06
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TheHan posted:Well what can I say, Star Power is unpredictable in how it fails. The shockwaves from the Mach 4 backpats Mookie gave himself must have been deafening. Yesss, yessss, what a smart twist from a smart boy. Who could’ve predicted a third, entirely innocent faction would have existed this whole time to expertly take a fat dump all over the tension and intrigue of the story. Thing is, they still are. The grievances and troubles of these two groups do not go away just because there're people in the crossfire or (better analogy for this situation) who have intermarried between the two clashing ethnicities.
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Aug 12, 2020 14:15
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YF-23 posted:God dammit. gently caress conflict and hard choices, there can only be an easy way out. Danica flashed back to her father talking about the helpers and then she... didn't try to help anyone? She helped one guy on each side, to ask them questions, until they both turned on her.
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Aug 12, 2020 14:29
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Mors Rattus posted:So, like Nah, this I buy, for once. Supposing that flight is not automatic, i.e. she doesn't float on her own whenever she loses her footing but rather has to think about it, she could have just been startled by the floorboards giving way and fell all the way to the bottom before recovering.
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Aug 12, 2020 14:32
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YF-23 posted:RRR, you don't need to post the next chapter, we all know that this can only go to her shaming the two fighting sides for not getting along like those other people. That's not how my brain works. No, we're seeing this through to the end. Mikl posted:Nah, this I buy, for once. Supposing that flight is not automatic, i.e. she doesn't float on her own whenever she loses her footing but rather has to think about it, she could have just been startled by the floorboards giving way and fell all the way to the bottom before recovering. I try to only include panels that have something dumb or are necessary to advance the story, so it comes off a bit confusing - what happened is she was hit by an explosion and thrown. Kavak posted:Thing is, they still are. The grievances and troubles of these two groups do not go away just because there're people in the crossfire or (better analogy for this situation) who have intermarried between the two clashing ethnicities. Ah but you see now she has someone to punch! Which, again, is called diplomacy. the yeti posted:I can’t wait for mookie to rip Saga and introduce an offspring of the two sides There are a few mixed-race kids in the group she finds, they're not any more or less important than the rest of them.
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Aug 12, 2020 15:05
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Kavak posted:Thing is, they still are. The grievances and troubles of these two groups do not go away just because there're people in the crossfire or (better analogy for this situation) who have intermarried between the two clashing ethnicities. It does if your race is just a tool for a cruel god's wish fulfillment! That's what this is, right? Or at least what it feels like. Danica was granted unlimited power for being so nice and now she can right all the wrongs she used to have to sit around and helplessly watch unfold on TV. Things may look complicated, maybe even rooted in generations of conflict... but if Danica could get in there and get them to listen to her philosophy then she'd have peace instilled in an afternoon. Thankfully Danica is also all powerful, so she doesn't have to convince anyone that she's right, she can just make them do what she wants. It looks imperialist as hell since Danica is in the military, but I think they're really just an extension of her will. Danica's the most important person in the universe and has no equal, everyone has to listen to her and let her fix all their problems with her superior moral compass.
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Aug 12, 2020 15:23
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Just to reiterate: the solution to deep seated ethnic conflict is to declare everyone wrong except this third ethnocultural group. Because you know what’s going to stop ethnic and cultural hatred exacerbated by fears and history on both sides? Beating everyone up and putting both ethnicities and cultures under the rule of a third.
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Aug 12, 2020 15:33
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I would give anything for this third group to start spouting racial epithets about the other 2 right after Danica saves them
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Aug 12, 2020 15:43
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Also while I could’ve never predicted this I am awarding myself some points as the answer is literally in-between the two races.
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Aug 12, 2020 15:50
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Mors Rattus posted:Just to reiterate: the solution to deep seated ethnic conflict is to declare everyone wrong except this third ethnocultural group. Annex the former Yugoslavia to Austria and Hungary, return Israel-Palestine to Turkish control, cede Northern Ireland to... gently caress, what would make the least amount of sense?
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Aug 12, 2020 15:58
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Kavak posted:Annex the former Yugoslavia to Austria and Hungary, return Israel-Palestine to Turkish control, cede Northern Ireland to... gently caress, what would make the least amount of sense? France.
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Aug 12, 2020 16:00
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Mors Rattus posted:France. No, Brittany, which must be granted independent. A Celtic homeland.
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Aug 12, 2020 16:00
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Post the last chapter RRR. I need people to see how our concludes.
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Aug 12, 2020 16:33
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The Little Death posted:Post the last chapter RRR. I need people to see how our concludes. Don't worry, I will. I just like having a bit of time between updates for some discussion and to let it sink in.
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Aug 12, 2020 16:37
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It's my fault for being impatient I was so excited for this arc
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Aug 12, 2020 17:01
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I can't believe I've caught up on everything. Hard to believe Snoot has been searching for dominic deegan for over a year. Thanks for this synopsis and commentary on Star Powered Guardian. It's certainly.... something.  This bit was glossed over I think, classic mookie. The old government was okay to remove from power because they were child murderers. Glad to see the feddies only ever do the right thing in the best way. Toalpaz fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Aug 12, 2020 |
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Aug 12, 2020 20:20
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Don't worry, you'll get a much closer examination of that... Whole thing in the final chapter. We have 1 more 5-issue chapter (and Mookie's issue) to get through before that.
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Aug 12, 2020 21:21
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Apologies if there are any image problems, Imgur isn’t working for me and I’m using an alternative host for the first time. Chapter 4.5  Fun fact: the book 4 kickstarter had stretch goals that were almost entirely bonus Psi Cop content.  One was supposed to be a story illustrated by Mookie.  They didn’t hit that stretch goal.  Old Tom talks to Beena about his security protocols to execute Danica if she doesn’t live by their ideals (Love and Compassion! Or face execution!) and about how the Federation does not need Danica due to it being a utopia, but the rest of the universe does.  Put a GIANT pin in this for the final chapter.  Anyway Danica is suddenly good at fighting the Venebeians and Ebebenveianans. Wow, all she needed was an arbitrary, well-timed power upgrade! Good thing she used her wit and skill to pull THAT one off!  … You know, Danica, you didn’t actually NEED the mixed race elves to justify this position… Right? It’s literally just “stop fighting or I will kill you”. Only now you can back it up because of the previously mentioned deus ex.  Mitch suddenly gets an upgrade and now looks like a Kris Straub character.  I skipped over most of it because it’s self-explanatory and pretty much a retread, but Burke explains how he killed his CO for being corrupt and taking part in slave trade. He and Purple Lady are best buds now.  I’m sure The Little Death can analyze the politics here better than I can, but it strikes me as a very, very shallow explanation for a conflict. “We’ve been fighting so long we can’t remember why” is a giant cop-out. Anyway, she decides to escort them to the gate. I’m skipping over a few pages here because it’s not that interesting, but the captain of the Traveler seems to be planning something unspecified, possibly an action that will allow them to show up much sooner.  Here’s where we learn just how big the federation is, which calls into question a lot of other details about the overall plot, but I’ve already covered that.  I think this kid is mixed race. They just end up looking like a normal member of the green haired elves for some reason. Kind of a missed opportunity.  Anyway they hike for 3 days to the gate and no one gets any more than a little scratched up.  This is the most explanation we get about how the warring factions are able to open the gate. I guess the scorpion tanks left behind (presumably by the Scitillians) have the power to open the gate. That said, if they’ve never opened it before, how would they know that…? Eh, whatever.  Just then, because god forbid Danica accomplish anything without incredible luck superseding any sort of skill or ingenuity on her part, the Traveler jumps in.  I will admit, again, this genuinely made me laugh.  All, what… Dozen of them? How is this a victory? She led one group of people to safety. Their entire nation is still a battleground, with presumably millions of other refugees still in need of aid or dead, on an entire planet still continuing to be ravaged by war. I mean, sure, it’s a good thing, but she certainly didn’t save all of them, and she has done nothing to stop the conflict.  The captain explains what they did – they intentionally burned out the engines to do one fast jump that would normally take years, but they have a way back due to the gate. Which, again I point out, is human-sized. Why wouldn’t they make a jump gate that can transport ships?  Stopping wars is literally what a Star Powered Sentinel is supposed to do, though… But I guess she’s not anything without the military to back her up. This is what really disappoints me about this chapter. Mookie had a chance to literally have Danica stop a war. She could have found the leaders and made them work out their differences, got to the root of the conflict… I don’t know exactly, I’m not a writer. But that’s the kind of thing a galactic-level hero is supposed to do. Instead she saves ONE group of refugees (apparently they never ran into ANY others, in their own homeland, huh?) and then is lucky enough to have a line back to the Federation so they can do the heavy lifting. It’s just so anti-climactic, and Danica never has to make a hard decision or do anything other than fight some dudes that are obviously the bad guys. And then the federation stops the war off-panel. Hooray. (Again The Little Death can go nuts analyzing the politics here better than I can.) It’s a story I’d be more ok with if it was a lower-powered superhero, or someone without powers at all. But someone as powerful as her? It’s a letdown. Again, I'm not a writer... But Mookie is supposedly one.  Danica talks with her mom, and we see more of the strained relationship with her that we won’t see resolved or explained.  The Doctor steps in as a clear replacement mother figure. It’s actually a pretty good page, and done entirely without words. Somehow a feat that Mookie can’t seem to accomplish in his OTHER comic, that happens to be dialogue-free.  And the chapter ends how it started – with a wet fart. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Aug 16, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 04:37
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I think it's pretty heroic of Danica to sacrifice nothing to be a interstellar space traveller, and that the friends missing her was resolved in a very tidy manner with no character growth. They just get her back. Pretty cool stuff!
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Aug 13, 2020 05:03
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Rotten Red Rod posted:
Yes, let's start with the roots of the conflict, which are a classic framing to justify interventionism. First Danica intercedes in what is frames as a multi-generational war (confusingly though it can't really have been going that long based on what the two groups said in the first chapter, so at most like 20-30 years but whatever), and concludes that in this case both sides are evil, and only a group of good "neutral" people deserve to be saved. There are explicitly children on both sides of this war, but presumably because they have been raised to hate and didn't reject it, they can gently caress off and die here and don't get to be refugees.The war starts with one side enslaving the other, the enslaved side fighting back and asking for freedom throught the gate, and the other side trying to stop this exodus. Here I have to believe that this was swerve by Mookie because that framing makes no sense given what comes afterwards. I'm sure he thought it was a clever twist to have the oppresed side be racist too but the way it's framed, it's not even clear why they are fighting over a gate if their plan relies on genociding the other side first. But the important point is that even though one side was clearly the agressor and the oppresor in the relationship before the war, Mookie's take is that both sides are equally wrong and need to be sorted out by a rational superior power to come in, oppose both sides and protect those he deems "innocent". This is a choice made by the interceder, and in any other comic, this would cause problems, but here of course it's entirely the correct choice. There's only one group of innocents. Compassion is only for the blameless, no one else. Also I guess the "death before captivity" cry is meant to paint them as crazy. Again, these people were canonically slaves until the start of this ongoing conflict for their freedom. Second, the framing is an "ancient hatreds" argument. Why do Jews and Muslims hate each other? Why do Shia and Sunni fight? Why did the Hutus kill the Tutsis? Or the brewakup of Yugoslavia? Why is Modi wiping out the Muslims of Kashmir right now? Well those idiotic non-westerners are stuck in their stupid medieval hatreds. Who can even remember why this poo poo started. Now I'm not going to break down each of these conflicts but I'm sure you all are aware that the reasons things turned out the way they did has everything to do with immediate material consideration of power and control, and none were the result of some purely cultural ancient grudge that apparently didn't translate into any sort of realworld power differential. Again Mookie frames that they were two neighbouring cultures who were protesting the influence of each other? Because they hated each other and then went to war over that? War is politics by other mean, but not to Mookie. To Mookie war is just bullying with death. It doesn't happen for any reasons of power or resources, but because people hate each other. And Mookie intercedes in these hatreds like the galaxy's cop, exactly like how America frames itself as the world's cop. Put all together this means to Mookie has created a situation where two sides of bloodthirsty zealots are practicing genocide for purely "senseless" reasons that Mookie's characters can intercede in to protect the people they deem innocent, and who they can chide for using violence even as they use force themselves. This is liberal America's understanding of foreign policy, and is way beyond even the most extreme versions of peacekeeping (which itself is full of problems and violence commited by the peacekeepers in the real world). Just picture for a second what this story would be if the purple elves had been recently slaves. Then their hatred for an oppresor in recent memory is used agaisnt them to justify their domination. This is a big problem in any debate on the sides of a conflict and reconciliation. It's not fair to demand perfect forgiveness for a group that has suffered. It doesn't mean that genocide is ok, but notice in Mookie's framing their is only black-and-white. Either a racial transcendance and perfect morality, or evil zealotry. There's no room for anger or justice or reparations. It's either you move past, or you are evil. And now the federation has to stay to protect any other innocents.  For clarity, I do not support the Taliban. But if you are familiar with the history of Afghanistan, the Mujahiddeen, the Taliban, and the Northern Alliance, you'll know that staying to protect the innocent women is really not why the US remained. But you can see how the logic remains the same. Only for Mookie, it is true, and the Millenium federation has nothing but noble goals in "stopping war" Also let's talk about this: Rotten Red Rod posted:
I feel like this is more pointing to the limits of Mookie's imagination than anything else, but the Millenium Federation has so far not been presented as a utopia. There is at the very least several sorts of exploitative crime, mercenary outfits, so sort of wage labour and class striation, and whatever the gently caress sending Black Hole Bill off to be tortured was, and an enormous array of racial slurs. There's police, security, military actions, the whole package of a modern nation state now. And that would be fine, as a setting, just roughly an extrapolated future like Mass Efffect and every other sci-fi does. But here, it is a utopia, a miracle, and explicitly the moral framework that Danica uses to judge the rest of the universe. Again, would never happen in this comic, but just imagine if one time Danica proved to be wrong. Or that Danica's magic laser beams didn't always find a way to magically kill no one. She can literally go from planet to planet, finding every uncontacted people and deciding which side to support or whether their civilization is worhty or not. Rotten Red Rod posted:
And here's what I mean by apologism for US imperialism. The solution is a permanent occupation force and presumably entry into the federation. Obviously everything will go well and no problems will arise, but what if they did? What if they had to kill to keep the gate? what if the conflict was misunderstood in any way?) Also the will secure the innocents, but not the people of either side in the conflict. There are the good helpless evebenians and everyone else needs to be brought to heel. Mookie gives no thoguht to it, but how does the federation end the war? through smiles? Or maybe throught those guns they are using for "safety". Again, here the federation gets to decide what constitutes justice and peace. This is done because they are defending innocents. This is the framing of every humanitarian mission the US ever engaged in, and was the logic in staying in Afghanistan and Iraq. Because starpower is always right, there are never any complications, but in any sort of competent story there would be actual issues and complicatiosn occuring. But because this is Mookie, nope, occupation force for good it is! And the thing is, if he had just had Danica solve the problem, we wouldn't have this issue. If Danica was annoitned by the ancient Zel Gux to be the superman of the galaxy, or the green lantern corps was rebuilt and they took over, that would still be a power fantasy and would still be bad in Mookie's hands, but it wouldn't be imperialism (or at least, only distantly like real imperialism). But it's not Danica or Danica's morality that's going to govern the elves, it's the Millenium Federation. That is a Bureaucratic Federal structure is going to annex and incoporate a world into itself. The main character of these books isn't Danica, it's the Millenium Federation, and interventionist version of Star Trek where the can mess around with inferior cultures as much as they want and do so in the name of thier moral system. It is a fantasy of a benevolent global hegemon who goes into fix problems and spread equality. Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Aug 13, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 05:38
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So does every arc just end with military intervention.
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Aug 13, 2020 05:40
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TheHan posted:So does every arc just end with military intervention. Yes lol. I amemded the post above but yeah, Mookie is not writing a superhero, he's writing about a supercivilization that is always right when it used military force, and never kills anyone.
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Aug 13, 2020 05:45
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Awesome post, The Little Death. Thanks. You put into words much better than I could some things I was thinking, and a lot of things I hadn't even considered.TheHan posted:So does every arc just end with military intervention. Holy poo poo I never thought about it, but yes, it does. Well, except for the Mookie-illustrated chapter, but that's probably because he didn't want to draw more than 2 people.
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Aug 13, 2020 05:55
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The Little Death posted:Yes lol. I amemded the post above but yeah, Mookie is not writing a superhero, he's writing about a supercivilization that is always right when it used military force, and never kills anyone. "What if the Culture, but without the elaborate moral dilemmas and fallibility, actual socialist imagination, and cool AI warships... but with a knockoff Green Lantern? Oh also weird alien racism stuff, rather than 'humanity is a wide category and the Culture is definitely multiple human species who have basically merged.'
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Aug 13, 2020 05:55
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Joe Slowboat posted:"What if the Culture, but without the elaborate moral dilemmas and fallibility, actual socialist imagination, and cool AI warships... but with a knockoff Green Lantern? Oh also weird alien racism stuff, rather than 'humanity is a wide category and the Culture is definitely multiple human species who have basically merged.' Right? This is literally like Mookie took Bank's work and made it lovely in every possible way. The utopic elements aren't utopic, and there's no actual exploration of any themes or questions as to how a benevolent superpower can exist because it's literally always right. In fact, as RRR showed, the moral of the story is that being a superpower is all about being black and white in your understanding of the universe. Mookie is a madman
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Aug 13, 2020 06:08
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Oh, good. Mookie managed to write in a dead woman floating rear end-up in a pool.
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Aug 13, 2020 07:58
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I find it interesting that in this setting, in the backstories given about the various species, humans are uniquely known for a violent history (along with like one other species). Even if you exclude the part of the galaxy that is outside the federation, you have things like mobster planet, you have the mercenaries that are running wild. You have the AI planet whose ethical standars are questionable. You have ruins of extinct civilisations. I guess the loving Supernova Dragon Lords were human, though like nothing about them makes sense. Even if you ignore any of the questionable things that RRR and The Little Death brought up, this could have been an opportunity to tie the world together a little bit, you could have had Danica flashing back to a history lesson about how the federation discovered Earth in a middle of a world war and their arrival was the catalyst for humanity having a pale blue dot moment and stopped fighting. Mookie's desire to tell stories for five year olds to adults keeps forcing him to reject any opportunity he has to do something interesting.
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Aug 13, 2020 12:03
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Rotten Red Rod posted:The captain explains what they did – they intentionally burned out the engines to do one fast jump that would normally take years, but they have a way back due to the gate. Which, again I point out, is human-sized. Why wouldn’t they make a jump gate that can transport ships? To play Mookie's advocate for a second, they can probably send engineers and spare parts through the gate and repair the ship from there. I really enjoy TLD's dissection of the liberal-imperialist mindset permeating the comic.
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Aug 13, 2020 12:49
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I can’t believe that his idea of utopia is literally What If Clinton’s America In Space, Forever, Better Things Aren’t Possible, We Are The End Of History
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Aug 13, 2020 12:51
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Mors Rattus posted:I can’t believe that his idea of utopia is literally What If Clinton’s America In Space, Forever, Better Things Aren’t Possible, We Are The End Of History Everything else about his personality congealed around then
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Aug 13, 2020 13:06
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the yeti posted:Everything else about his personality congealed around then Now it's finally clicking for me. Mookie is mentally stuck in high school, thus so are his politics and worldview. The fact that this "global policeman" interventionism died with the War on Terror is irrelevant because it was thriving when he was at his (perceived) peak.
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Aug 13, 2020 13:09
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Cat Mattress posted:To play Mookie's advocate for a second, they can probably send engineers and spare parts through the gate and repair the ship from there. Honestly, yeah. If you have a network of gates that work like that you don't need ships to begin with. Your concern is for the gates to be large enough to transport cargo. Are they still kinda small for that? Eh, maybe, but you could probably get most things through them.
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Aug 13, 2020 13:17
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