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homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007

The way this game loves dramatic parallels, I definitely expect Ga Bu to be coming back real soon, foreshadowed and mirrored by Halric's story in Shadowbringers. And thats gonna be a big time Alisaie story

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Cleretic posted:

Yeah, and I think that's going to start paying dividends soon. If I had to make predictions I think we'll see more of that as a focus in 5.4 and 5.5, possibly even going through the next expansion as her big Thing, but right now we're only in the phase of 'seeds for a solution got planted', they haven't done a whole lot with it yet. It's just been the few scenes with Ga Bu and then like, one cutscene in 5.1

Comparing Alisaie in ShB to Urianger is hard, because the big advancement for him was never that he got new things to do, it was that he got things to do at all, this is the first time he got promoted to 'main cast'. But if you think Alisaie got more stuff to do in Shadowbringers (and new stuff, at that) than Y'shtola... well, I wanna know what Shadowbringers you played.

She gets a very personal connection to the Sin Eater plotline which lasts throughout the entire story and pays off right as the plot ends.

Y'shtola's plot is A) Getting kidnapped B) Exposition or C) Thirsty Catman, each with a side of snark.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
honestly I'm not that attached to the scions themselves, our newest catboy friend excluded. The characters invented for each new expansion tend to be more interesting to me than the ones rolled over from the last one

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

Shadowbringers made me love all the scions I didn't care too much about before

Alphinaud and Alisaie were already there

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

Fallen Rib
Honestly Y'shtola, Thancred, and Urianger have not had any meaningful representation since the end of 2.X, so I am fine with the focus on them for Shadowbringers. But Alphinaud and Alisaie also had great moments as well.

Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Aug 13, 2020

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

Ibblebibble posted:

Thanks, guess I'll need to rewatch the cutscenes to match up the lines.

please post these

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

ImpAtom posted:

She gets a very personal connection to the Sin Eater plotline which lasts throughout the entire story and pays off right as the plot ends.

Y'shtola's plot is A) Getting kidnapped B) Exposition or C) Thirsty Catman, each with a side of snark.

I think you're focusing more on 5.3, while I'm thinking more 'whole expansion'.

Alisaie does have Tesleen and later Halric tying her to the sin eater plot, and that's not nothing, but it's also, honestly, weirdly isolated from the rest of the story. It's the focus of her early intro, it comes back in Holminster, and then gets scenes in 5.1 and 5.3, but it doesn't really leave its little pocket and Alisaie's the same as normal otherwise, very much an 'and she's also there'. There is more 'seeing Sin Eaters as people who need help', but it's in the role quests, not the main story. She doesn't even get to do a whole lot with the rest of Amh Araeng.

Y'shtola on the other hand gets the whole of Rak'tika, every single time you go there, which lets you see a whole new side of her because of her connections there; we've never really seen Y'shtola caring about people. Even when she leaves Rak'tika there's still clear influences on her demeanor afterwards (like still being mad at Thancred for being a lovely dad), she feels like she's actually changed even if she's still pretty snarky, there's more care behind it. And you mention getting kidnapped, but that's interesting because it's never really happened before, we very rarely see Y'shtola put on the back foot by others like that. And apparently she loving owns it, but it's also possible that Elidibus is just very bad at kidnapping.

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
Given how Azem is a title, there must have been multiple azems who wandered the world as superhuman giants with who could create whatever they needed to solve problems.

And if people built sun-emblazoned monuments to an azem for their heroism, then they get misinterpreted as a god or goddess after a long cycle of populations getting wiped out amd resetting the area and finding what appears to be a shrine to a sun deity.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Pharohman777 posted:

Given how Azem is a title, there must have been multiple azems who wandered the world as superhuman giants with who could create whatever they needed to solve problems.

And if people built sun-emblazoned monuments to an azem for their heroism, then they get misinterpreted as a god or goddess after a long cycle of populations getting wiped out amd resetting the area and finding what appears to be a shrine to a sun deity.

So basically the WoL was Dr Manhattan.

Its Rinaldo
Aug 13, 2010

CODS BINCH

Waffleman_ posted:

Meanwhile my WoL was getting flustered when she saw that Y'shtola smiles as she threatens to take her over her knee

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

Mister Olympus posted:

please post these

RIP, Unending Journey only has Emet-Selch's crystal cutscene in it. Will have to find someone else's recording of the other crystals.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


The cat boy lives :woop:

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Fister Roboto posted:

Oh, I just realized that the shade who summons you back from the void is probably the shade of Emet-Selch, which is why he's doing his trademark sassy handwave. I thought it was Hydlothaeus for some reason.

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW gently caress. I thought it was Hythlodaeus too. That makes way more sense.

God drat.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


characters known to snap their fingers and do a sassy wave: hythlodaeus???

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



That wave was what sold me on how good they've gotten with animation since 5.0

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


put that loving wave on the mog station already

Alaemon
Jan 4, 2009

Proctors are guardians of the sanctity and integrity of legal education, therefore they are responsible for the nourishment of the soul.
I bet Arenvald really thought he was going to make varsity, but with G'raha joining the Scions, it's not going to happen this season.

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!

Alaemon posted:

I bet Arenvald really thought he was going to make varsity, but with G'raha joining the Scions, it's not going to happen this season.

the scions have too many drat casters, arenvald should definitely get a promotion

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011
I suppose it's possible in a sense that your memories are more a part of you no matter who you're recalling that the Hythlodaeus the Warrior of Light meets has always been a fragment of Emet-Selch and therefore CAN be the same Amaurotine that appears in the trial, but even if it were, the emphasis was on making it known that it was Hades helping out right then.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

SirSamVimes posted:

characters known to snap their fingers and do a sassy wave: hythlodaeus???

I didn't piece it together at the finger snap, because... hey, a lot of people snap their fingers for effect. I do that.

But then I saw the wave and my mood dropped pretty hard. Almost fortunate that I didn't like the trial very much anyway, so it's not like he tanked something I otherwise enjoyed.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


We get it

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011


I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Hythlodaeus, Emet-Selch, and Azem: Just three assholes causing trouble in Amaurot

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Fister Roboto posted:

Oh, I just realized that the shade who summons you back from the void is probably the shade of Emet-Selch, which is why he's doing his trademark sassy handwave. I thought it was Hydlothaeus for some reason.

Yep. Y'shtola spells it out in the post-trial cutscene: Emet-Selch knew he was going to die, so he crafted the Azem crystal and ensured that Hythlodaeus would pass it on to you, knowing that you could use it to help put Elidibus to rest and end the latter's suffering.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Emet Selch in SHB also makes a bit more sense now. He was the last ancient after we cut through the others - Elidibus was a primal and wasn’t a real person anymore. It makes the entire plot of SHB some sort of elaborate suicide by WoL.

I thought it was supposed to be WoL as an ancient, but then it’d have been a fist punch and not the hand wave.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Waffleman_ posted:

Hythlodaeus, Emet-Selch, and Azem: Just three assholes causing trouble in Amaurot

No, Azem was causing troubles outside Amaurot. Big difference.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



hobbesmaster posted:

Emet Selch in SHB also makes a bit more sense now. He was the last ancient after we cut through the others - Elidibus was a primal and wasn’t a real person anymore. It makes the entire plot of SHB some sort of elaborate suicide by WoL.

I mentioned it in the other thread, but 5.3 contextualizes Emet's behaviour a lot more: he acts the way he does because he's fundamentally caught in an intractable dilemma. He comes to realize that you and your ilk really are worthy of being the new stewards of the star, but it's also impossible for him to give up his crusade, due both to the promise he made to his brethren, and the incalcuable sins committed in their name. He goads you on and invites you to witness the scale of his struggle to see if you really do have the drive and determination to forge your own way, because you're ultimately the only thing that can break the deadlock he finds himself in.

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

Mister Olympus posted:

please post these

OK, pulled the dialogue from Garland Tools, let's start matching them up:

Altima:
"...day forth...bring honor to the seat of..."

Halmarut:
"Behold, my friends."
"Embraced by the earth and caressed by the wind, vibrant life flourishes. All is right in creation."

Igeyorhm:
"There can be no greater joy than to use our wisdom for the good of our people. No greater pride."

Deudalaphon:
"May all know happiness, now and forevermore."

Loghrif:
"The heavens are ablaze and the land rent asunder. What will become of the world? Is life itself to be denied?"

Mitron:
"Come what may, we must not surrender to despair. If we but hold fast to hope, we may yet find a path to salvation."

Nabriales:
"Everything burns. Crumbles. Decays. I hear the lamentations of my brethren. And soon there will be only silence."

Emmerololth:
"We will deliver our star from its doom, this we swear. So please, dry your tears."

Lahabrea:
"The time is come. We shall rewrite the laws of creation. And we shall save our star."

Elidibus:
"From this life, our savior born... May I be worthy of the honor."

Fandaniel:
"I feel my soul turning. Slowly but irrevocably. And the power I wield begins to seem terrible... But this is right. It is right."

Pashtarot:
"Though salvation is ours, it came at great sacrifice. All that remains is to pray..."
"To pray that we will one day meet again, beneath a blue sky."

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011
angered the evil eye lately

hobbesmaster posted:

Emet Selch in SHB also makes a bit more sense now. He was the last ancient after we cut through the others - Elidibus was a primal and wasn’t a real person anymore. It makes the entire plot of SHB some sort of elaborate suicide by WoL.

I thought it was supposed to be WoL as an ancient, but then it’d have been a fist punch and not the hand wave.

Hell, consider how he was introduced to us. "I had earned my rest." Emet hasn't enjoyed being alive for a while now.

I'm not sure if it was a conscious plot, but I definitely feel like by the time we reached Amaurot he was basically ok with throwing the dice, even if he couldn't consciously or emotionally give up until you took the choice away from him.

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

Ibblebibble posted:

OK, pulled the dialogue from Garland Tools, let's start matching them up:


These are definitely Pointing in Directions

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

I think the crystal was a backup rather than his real plan. I'm pretty sure he still wanted to beat us and was genuinely surprised when we pulled out stuff he couldn't see coming like Ardbert.

BUT he certainly acknowledged the possibility that we could win

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


When I first did 5.0 I thought "Remember that once we lived" was because he knew that Elidibus had absolutely no chance against us. Now I realise it was because Emet was well aware that Elidibus had already forgotten. :smith:

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011
angered the evil eye lately

Regy Rusty posted:

I think the crystal was a backup rather than his real plan. I'm pretty sure he still wanted to beat us and was genuinely surprised when we pulled out stuff he couldn't see coming like Ardbert.

BUT he certainly acknowledged the possibility that we could win

Yeah, same, I think Emet was basically in a hopeless death-or-glory mindset rather then actually wanting to lose.

Mad Wack
Mar 27, 2008

"The faster you use your cooldowns, the faster you can use them again"
Anyone understand why Amaurot warped to the surface outside of Eulmore for the starshower that led to the heroes gauntlet? I will accept Anime as an answer but I was wondering if there was more to it.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Primals love theatrics.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011
angered the evil eye lately

Mad Wack posted:

Anyone understand why Amaurot warped to the surface outside of Eulmore for the starshower that led to the heroes gauntlet? I will accept Anime as an answer but I was wondering if there was more to it.

Probably just an illusion to reinforce the Past-Life-Triggering.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011
Even people who didn't have the Echo triggered said they felt a palpable sense of loss upon seeing the image of Amaurot..

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011
angered the evil eye lately

Hogama posted:

Even people who didn't have the Echo triggered said they felt a palpable sense of loss upon seeing the image of Amaurot..

I read that as implying that everybody has souls tied to Amaurot, just not necessarily the Echo?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Hogama posted:

Even people who didn't have the Echo triggered said they felt a palpable sense of loss upon seeing the image of Amaurot..

I'd really like some sort of in-words confirmation for what exactly makes someone Echo-capable, because 5.3 kinda made a mess of how I understood that. Alisaie mentioning her soul is 'fractured' and that's why she can't, that one dude in Eulmore not getting the Echo but apparently still feeling that...

My running theory so far has been that there's a whole bunch of fragmented Ancient souls from before the Sundering, with one fragment from each whole Ancient on each shard, and then there's 'other souls' that started springing up after Zodiark broke reality, and are whole for what they are but can't become more than that by merging fragments, and don't get the Echo. And I feel like I got most of the 'shape' of what's going on there, but I have the actual facts of it wrong.

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!
Everyone has the potential to have the Echo

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CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



*soldier 76ishly*
We are all Warriors of Light now

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