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Watchmen was OK when it was building up mystery but got really loving bad once they revealed how everything had happened and the story started moving towards the finish line
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Aug 13, 2020 12:50
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The problem with Watchmen is when they abandoned the kickass premise of life in the aftermath of the events of the original comic, and then proceeded to play standard capeshit games with the action figures of the OG Watchmen comic. Jesus fuckme, the climax was deciding which charismaless dickhead would steal the powers from the omnipotent god-being you couldn't possibly care about anymore. Just embarrassing.
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Aug 13, 2020 12:56
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Fartbox posted:Watchmen was OK when it was building up mystery but got really loving bad once they revealed how everything had happened and the story started moving towards the finish line Twin Peaks season 2.
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Aug 13, 2020 13:03
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as someone who has not watched it my takeaway is "if you want to teach americans abuot horrifying poo poo this country has done hide it in a superhero show"
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Aug 13, 2020 13:04
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Watchmen was 2 different cool shows jammed into 1 slightly discordant season. I love it for the high-highs of each, but the first and second half are very different. One is a sci-fi tinged drama about generational racial trauma, and one is a full-on sci-fi comic book sequel with a ton of fun ideas and some really bad ones. The seams are quite evident and some of the goofy stuff doesn't land, but it generally works. And when it doesn't, the good outweighs the bad.
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Aug 13, 2020 13:06
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Snowman_McK posted:I think it's also the writers not quite understanding why their stuff worked. The twist in the first season only worked because the set ups were clear and made sense. That's why the rug being pulled out is so impactful. Because these well acted, clearly drawn characters are clearly heading places, only they aren't. By contrast, the second season has a twist every five minutes, because the creators thought the twists of the first were the interesting part. Yeah this is the problem - it's GOOD when some people figure out your twists. poo poo I did and I never read the subreddit. Would Sixth Sense work if it had just come out of left field?? I remember watching the beginning of season 2 and going man it's gonna be great when they reveal why everyone ended up drowned in the valley and then the reveal came and it was mind bendingly stupid. Taintrunner posted:The problem with Watchmen is when they abandoned the kickass premise of life in the aftermath of the events of the original comic, and then proceeded to play standard capeshit games with the action figures of the OG Watchmen comic. Jesus fuckme, the climax was deciding which charismaless dickhead would steal the powers from the omnipotent god-being you couldn't possibly care about anymore. Just embarrassing. I liked how mad fans of the show would get when you said it was clearly made by someone who didn't understand the comic and then Damon went and proved it in the (I think) last podcast.
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Aug 13, 2020 13:39
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if Alan Moore don't like it neither will I 
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Aug 13, 2020 14:24
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I hope you and Alan Moore enjoy not liking just about everything together.
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Aug 13, 2020 14:25
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Alan Smithee posted:as someone who has not watched it my takeaway is "if you want to teach americans abuot horrifying poo poo this country has done hide it in a superhero show" I mean, it took the Superman radio drama to make everyone realize how bad and dumb the KKK are so it's not like that's anything new.
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Aug 13, 2020 14:35
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Taintrunner posted:The problem with Watchmen is when they abandoned the kickass premise of life in the aftermath of the events of the original comic, and then proceeded to play standard capeshit games with the action figures of the OG Watchmen comic. Jesus fuckme, the climax was deciding which charismaless dickhead would steal the powers from the omnipotent god-being you couldn't possibly care about anymore. Just embarrassing. I was really loving Watchmen until they revealed the dumb villain plots and pulled Dr Manhattan out because GOD FORBID WATCHMEN DOESN'T HAVE THEM THERE. So typical Lindelof poo poo.
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Aug 13, 2020 14:51
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I forgive the sins of Lindelof because of The Leftovers, a show that got better each season and was wrapped up perfectly.
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Aug 13, 2020 14:55
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Never seen the leftovers but it would have to be pretty loving good to excuse lost, star trek 09, cowboys and aliens, prometheus, star trek into darkness, world war z, tomorrowland, and the motherfucking hunt
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Aug 13, 2020 15:11
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The Klowner posted:Never seen the leftovers but it would have to be pretty loving good to excuse lost, star trek 09, cowboys and aliens, prometheus, star trek into darkness, world war z, tomorrowland, and the motherfucking hunt I was thinking it's funny when people bring up the Leftovers because he has so much poo poo besides it.
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Aug 13, 2020 15:13
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The Klowner posted:Never seen the leftovers but it would have to be pretty loving good to excuse lost, star trek 09, cowboys and aliens, prometheus, star trek into darkness, world war z, tomorrowland, and the motherfucking hunt It is.
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Aug 13, 2020 15:16
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The dude's made some bad stuff, sure, but I'll stan for Lost, Prometheus, and even Star Trek '09 any day. That plus Leftovers and Watchmen give him a decent batting average in my book.
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Aug 13, 2020 15:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIzazUv2gtI
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Aug 13, 2020 15:24
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feedmyleg posted:The dude's made some bad stuff, sure, but I'll stan for Lost, Prometheus, and even Star Trek '09 any day. That plus Leftovers and Watchmen give him a decent batting average in my book. The good of Prometheus has little to do with him though.
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Aug 13, 2020 15:27
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Prometheus got unfairly savaged by people when it came out imo. Yeah the random scientists acted dumb with the space snake who gives a poo poo It was an OK sci-fi moopie
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Aug 13, 2020 15:33
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Groovelord Neato posted:The good of Prometheus has little to do with him though. Gonna go ahead and guess you could say the same about the bad of Cowboys and Aliens, World War Z, Tomorrowland, etc.
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Aug 13, 2020 15:40
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feedmyleg posted:Y'all are forgetting that Westworld season 1 was a loving mess behind the scenes and shut down mid-filming to retool the show for almost a year. Having a ton of extra time to see what they had that did and didn't work was a luxury they couldn't afford in the next two seasons. But that's on top of all the aforementioned problems. While this true, Westworld season 2 got delayed for a year and still came out like they came up with it the night before.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:10
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The Klowner posted:Never seen the leftovers but it would have to be pretty loving good to excuse lost, star trek 09, cowboys and aliens, prometheus, star trek into darkness, world war z, tomorrowland, and the motherfucking hunt I can't remember the last time I've been so annoyed while sitting in a theater. That movie was such gently caress trash.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:22
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joylessdivision posted:I can't remember the last time I've been so annoyed while sitting in a theater. That movie was such gently caress trash. Was that the second or third one? The second one was trash for sure, and I just wanna know if I can rightfully continue to snub the third one
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Aug 13, 2020 16:33
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Iron Crowned posted:Was that the second or third one? The second one was trash for sure, and I just wanna know if I can rightfully continue to snub the third one The second one. The third one is actually decent.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:40
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The third one, Beyond, is really fun. It's a much more coherent movie than Into Darkness.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:49
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So, uh, YouTube's advertising algorithm has just informed me that there is a movie adaptation of that old grifter self help book "The Secret" 
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Aug 13, 2020 17:10
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I feel like if there’s a bad time to release a movie about The Secret it’s during a pandemic where no one is getting anything they visualize
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Aug 13, 2020 17:18
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Flying Zamboni posted:The third one, Beyond, is really fun. It's a much more coherent movie than Into Darkness. Yeah, it's fun. It feels more like an episode of the original series, and it doesn't bog itself down too much. It's also smaller? Like it feels like the stakes are not as big as Into Darkness like they're going on an adventure and dealing with personal problems but it doesn't feel like they need to save the galaxy again. I mean, they probably do, I forget what the actual stakes are but it feels more personal.
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Aug 13, 2020 17:36
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feedmyleg posted:The dude's made some bad stuff, sure, but I'll stan for Lost, Prometheus, and even Star Trek '09 any day. That plus Leftovers and Watchmen give him a decent batting average in my book. Yeah hes one of those writers who just gets poo poo on so disproportionately its rediculous. I could barely finish poo poo like Tomorrowland and Cowboys & Aliens but hes done so much amazing and influential work its hard to understand the hyperbole surrounding him unless you basically frame it as a continuous grudge based completely on the ending of Lost.
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Aug 13, 2020 18:33
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I'll be honest, I don't even think that the ending of Lost was that bad. Could have been better, certainly, but it's no Game Of Thrones ending.
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Aug 13, 2020 18:56
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Yeah, the ending of Lost wasn't particularly bad, there were a bunch of points where the series was spinning its wheels that were probably worse. The real kicker about Lost is that going back to watch the older episodes feels pointless because they were all about establishing a mystery and once you either know the answer or know that there is no answer that feels pointless, and it turns out that as a whole the show wasn't that good outside of the mystery.
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Aug 13, 2020 19:12
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AccountSupervisor posted:Yeah hes one of those writers who just gets poo poo on so disproportionately its rediculous. He's worked on a lot of nerdy properties and those groups hold grudges. I'm guessing the reason a lot of people who complain about him haven't seen his best work Leftovers is because it's not in their genre.
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Aug 13, 2020 19:17
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Lost was really just the first victim of online discussion and speculation becoming so fervent. Everybody's expectations were not only so high but also so disparate that it would be impossible for the vast majority of the audience to not be disappointed because of what they'd built up in their head over years of constant discussion and theorycrafting. I think the ending is fine—really well done in some aspects and fairly mediocre in others—but every person I talk to who still hold a chip on their shoulder about it was Extremely Online About Lost leading up to it. There were other shows with online discussions that had high expectations with their endings like Sopranos or X-Files, but speculation wasn't nearly so widespread or impassioned before Lost. Now all kinds of shows are under that sort of scrutiny.
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Aug 13, 2020 19:22
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This conversation did get me thinking: what is the show with the biggest cultural impact with the most poorly received finale? I feel like it's gotta be either GOT or Roseanne.
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Aug 13, 2020 19:32
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Flying Zamboni posted:This conversation did get me thinking: what is the show with the biggest cultural impact with the most poorly received finale? I feel like it's gotta be either GOT or Roseanne. Seinfeld is a contender too, but its probably Game of Thrones. That show somehow got terrible political think pieces written about it, that acted as though the politics of the fictional setting actually mattered and not just as a reflection of real word politics.
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Aug 13, 2020 19:43
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joylessdivision posted:pulled Dr Manhattan out because GOD FORBID WATCHMEN DOESN'T HAVE THEM THERE. you might wanna go look at how DC has been handling Watchmen stuff as a whole. having that character involved was... pretty clearly not Lindelof, because DC's been basically making him their naked blue Wolverine and cramming him into everything. it's significantly more likely that the character was forced onto Lindelof by DC as a condition of the show being made at all.
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Aug 13, 2020 19:47
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Seinfeld is a contender too, but its probably Game of Thrones. That show somehow got terrible political think pieces written about it, that acted as though the politics of the fictional setting actually mattered and not just as a reflection of real word politics. I don't think Seinfeld's is as universally reviled (except maybe Elaine's confession). GoT's is so bad because it makes people retroactively look at the rest of the show in a worse light since everything prior leads up to it. The rest of Seinfeld's episodes aren't as effected by the finale being poo poo.
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Aug 13, 2020 20:19
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I would say prior to GOT the go-to answer for worst ending would've been Seinfeld for most but you are right about it not retroactively loving up much of what came before.
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Aug 13, 2020 20:20
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I didn't love the Seinfeld ending at first but it has really grown on me over the years. The bit at the end where they start having a conversation from the first episode again is a nice touch.
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Aug 13, 2020 20:35
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Uh before GOT it had to be Lost by far
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Aug 13, 2020 20:38
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Baron von Eevl posted:Yeah, it's fun. It feels more like an episode of the original series, and it doesn't bog itself down too much. It's also smaller? Like it feels like the stakes are not as big as Into Darkness like they're going on an adventure and dealing with personal problems but it doesn't feel like they need to save the galaxy again. I mean, they probably do, I forget what the actual stakes are but it feels more personal. The one thing I don't like about Beyond is that everything introduced in the story comes back as a component of the plot in some way. It's a setting that benefits from introducing some things just to add flavour and make the universe seem bigger and more lived-in, so that very mechanical approach to storytelling made everything feel a bit artificial to me in a way that took away from the story. It's a storytelling approach that I'm completely fine with in some cases but in a big, expansive sci-fi setting it didn't click for me.
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Aug 13, 2020 20:38
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