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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Was there anything in game associating Azem with the Hydaelyn summoning crew? They objected to summoning Zodiark, but were they linked with Venat and co at all, or did they just head out to do their own thing? It sounds more like Azem didn't really oppose either group. They wanted to presumably go off and murderhobo the Sound itself. We have apparently always been a murderhobo at heart.
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Aug 13, 2020 21:32
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Jetrauben posted:What happened with Lahabrea is also very similar to what happened with Elidibus. He went through bodies without changing them to his own, and therefore identities, like candy, presumably because he either felt their identities were useful or because he just didn't care. The end result was a man whose identity was falling apart, leaving nothing but a cartoon villain. My take was that since Elidibus was just a primal, he wasn't the real Elidibus to begin with. He was both Zodiark's and the peoples' wish for a saviour, and ultimately, that doesn't require memories or identities at all. He was the hero, he was salvation, and nothing else mattered. I don't think it had anything to do with body hopping like Lahabrea. His original summoners are also gone, so he's powered by the mixed prayers and needs of other scattered people. Jetrauben posted:It sounds more like Azem didn't really oppose either group. They wanted to presumably go off and murderhobo the Sound itself. We have apparently always been a murderhobo at heart. That was my take, but I heard people thinking Azem and the rest of the Twelve were Venat's thirteen other summoners. I didn't remember anything linking Azem to the rest of the summoners, and wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.
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Aug 13, 2020 21:35
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So what exactly happened in the Heroes' Gauntlet, then? The proper summoning ritual brings people over entirely, which is what happens to the WoL and the others in the Hades trial. Botching it gets what happens to the other Scions, separating soul/mind from body, but there's still a tether. Elidibus says he basically did a smash and grab on a bunch of heroes with their souls not even needing to be whole? Does that mean there are a bunch of people who are soul-damaged or whatever across the shards now
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Aug 13, 2020 21:39
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:So what exactly happened in the Heroes' Gauntlet, then? Sounds like he basically did flash-imprints of bits of people's souls, yeah. Presumably fixable or recoverable, but it's why none of them seem to have concrete identities beyond vague signifiers of their heroic deeds and pasts. I'm actually fairly confident we'll see the Necromancer again given how big a deal they made of her; the Thief is transparently just Locke from FF6. It's a pretty cute reminder that the other Shards have their own heroic sagas though. Orcs and Ostriches posted:My take was that since Elidibus was just a primal, he wasn't the real Elidibus to begin with. He was both Zodiark's and the peoples' wish for a saviour, and ultimately, that doesn't require memories or identities at all. He was the hero, he was salvation, and nothing else mattered. I don't think it had anything to do with body hopping like Lahabrea. His original summoners are also gone, so he's powered by the mixed prayers and needs of other scattered people. My running theory is that the Fourteen are tied to the same powers that the Twelve embody, since the Twelve do appear to wield concrete power in the world. After all there's seemingly a whole other galaxy or even universe beyond Hydaelyn, and the Fourteen are all tied to constellations or celestial bodies. And aether is universal, as indicated by Omega and Midgardsormr (and Ultima) all wielding it. Hell, for all we know the whole point of Sigmascape - which they make a big deal out of it being actually a different world and not just some mythic ancient era of Hydaelyn's past being referenced like the Deltascape or Omegascape - is that the world of FF6 actually exists in the cosmos of Hydaelyn and not just "beyond the Rift." Although, is the Rift space? Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Aug 13, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 21:41
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Yeah we probably did minimal damage to a whole bunch of souls. Thancred notes that there wasn't a whole bunch there when he struck the first one. I'm assuming the soul fragment would find its way back once it was dispatched, or that the original soul would recover, but it's probably not significant lasting damage in any case.
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Aug 13, 2020 21:43
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:So what exactly happened in the Heroes' Gauntlet, then? From what it was described rather than summoning the people themselves he basically opened a portal and went "I am a hero fighting the FORCES OF DARKNESS, lend me your energy" and when heroes did so he effectively molded those into Hero Egis and send them to kill you. I doubt any of them are permanently scarred or anything, they just tried to help with a Spirit Bomb only for it turn out to be an rear end in a top hat in charge.
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Aug 13, 2020 21:43
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:My take was that since Elidibus was just a primal, he wasn't the real Elidibus to begin with. He was both Zodiark's and the peoples' wish for a saviour, and ultimately, that doesn't require memories or identities at all. He was the hero, he was salvation, and nothing else mattered. I don't think it had anything to do with body hopping like Lahabrea. His original summoners are also gone, so he's powered by the mixed prayers and needs of other scattered people. In the 5.2 cutscene it states that "the dissenter" (presumably Azem) refused to help the Hydaelen summoners.
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Aug 13, 2020 21:58
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SirSamVimes posted:In the 5.2 cutscene it states that "the dissenter" (presumably Azem) refused to help the Hydaelen summoners. Perfect. Azem is definitely the dissenter. Hythlodaeus outright says it, but it's nice to confirm they didn't work with either group.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:00
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Perfect. Yeah, although it doesn't sound like there was hostility at first, either. The sad thing about the Convocations is that everyone involved totally understood why everyone was doing what they were doing. I could totally imagine that Azem absolutely refused to be party to the mass sacrifice of the people or of a child.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:01
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Elidibus says to G'raha that he only needs to summon the desires for salvation and heroism etc. and bind that desire to clumps of aether in the First to make that desire "real", loopholing himself into becoming stronger. We didn't fight any real soul.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:03
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ImpAtom posted:The real question is: How does your Chocobo get across. your chocobo is obviously a primal
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Aug 13, 2020 22:11
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I'm not going to lie, I was secretly hoping Heroes' Gauntlet was going to have a special queue to get summoned in as an enemy by Elidibus, Mirror Knight style
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Aug 13, 2020 22:14
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ImpAtom posted:It seems like you can basically bring anything across, it just depends on if it is capable of remaining together after you do so. Living beings are a lot more complex than bread and thus are at a greater risk of dissolving. As long as you think of it as part of you then it should be able to come across. In 5.1 G'raha said that you could being living things that you considered your possessions. He even said that if you were capable of thinking of the Scions as belonging to you, you would have been able to bring them over too.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:14
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Jetrauben posted:Sounds like he basically did flash-imprints of bits of people's souls, yeah. Presumably fixable or recoverable, but it's why none of them seem to have concrete identities beyond vague signifiers of their heroic deeds and pasts. I'm actually fairly confident we'll see the Necromancer again given how big a deal they made of her; the Thief is transparently just Locke from FF6. The Rift where the Ascians hang out is, I think a more metaphysical place between the shards. Space is space, and both Omega and Midgardsormr crossed it to the Source sometime after the Sundering. What's not known is are the other shards somehow isolated into little pocket dimensions that take up the same space in the universe as the source? Like if you had a spaceship and were observing the star system from outside of it, would the other shards be detectable?
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Aug 13, 2020 22:25
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Hunter Noventa posted:The Rift where the Ascians hang out is, I think a more metaphysical place between the shards. Space is space, and both Omega and Midgardsormr crossed it to the Source sometime after the Sundering. Well they refer to Omega as having "crossed the Rift."
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Aug 13, 2020 22:25
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The Androids and Machine Lifeforms are also from space. Ultima, the High Seraph is from ???
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Aug 13, 2020 22:26
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Hunter Noventa posted:The Rift where the Ascians hang out is, I think a more metaphysical place between the shards. Space is space, and both Omega and Midgardsormr crossed it to the Source sometime after the Sundering. The constellations are presumably the same on each shard and the source, so if they have a location in space, they share the same location. If that helps any.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:30
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ImpAtom posted:It seems like you can basically bring anything across, it just depends on if it is capable of remaining together after you do so. Living beings are a lot more complex than bread and thus are at a greater risk of dissolving. As long as you think of it as part of you then it should be able to come across.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:37
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Hmm this has me thinking... does the 5.3 raid development mean that the 2B/2P mirror match from Soulcalibur VI is indeed part of a unified canon... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw9Uq_C8AJA&t=11s CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Aug 13, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 22:38
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Mad Wack posted:your chocobo is obviously a primal I mean, outside of the first couple of EXs, the rest of the EX primal trials are literally just the WoL meditating super hard on their memories to become stronger. We are just conjuring mounts and weapons by reliving our memories really hard.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:58
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Jetrauben posted:Sounds like he basically did flash-imprints of bits of people's souls, yeah. Presumably fixable or recoverable, but it's why none of them seem to have concrete identities beyond vague signifiers of their heroic deeds and pasts. I'm actually fairly confident we'll see the Necromancer again given how big a deal they made of her; the Thief is transparently just Locke from FF6. Nah, Thief is definitely Bartz. Uses Chicken Knife and all. Also clearly slotted in !Ninjitsu.
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Aug 13, 2020 23:10
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Allarion posted:I mean, outside of the first couple of EXs, the rest of the EX primal trials are literally just the WoL meditating super hard on their memories to become stronger. We are just conjuring mounts and weapons by reliving our memories really hard. We've had creation magic all this time. 
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Aug 13, 2020 23:22
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Gauntlet made me realize I really want a raid series of fighting final fantasy heroes. Orbonne isn't enough.
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Aug 13, 2020 23:22
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Ibblebibble posted:Nah, Thief is definitely Bartz. Uses Chicken Knife and all. Also clearly slotted in !Ninjitsu. I actually lol'd when I saw him casting "chicken knife"
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Aug 13, 2020 23:23
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Fandaniel being the 5th Ascian in zodiac order does make me want to speculate that the next expansion will be FFV themed. Emet happened to be the 3rd Ascian which happened to line up with Crystal Tower/FF3 so something to note. Also coincidentally, the 4th, 6th, 7th, and 10th Ascians are all currently missing and not stated to be dead yet. It's possible it's just super coincidental though. What shoots down this speculation is just Eureka already existing as the hybrid of FFV and XI. Though the 11th Ascian did die in Eureka though so who knows Allarion fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Aug 13, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 23:31
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FFV themed would make me think it would have something to do with the void. Something to think about I guess.
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Aug 13, 2020 23:35
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I've never heard of any zodiac order correlation, at least not one as consistent as the legion numbers.
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Aug 13, 2020 23:41
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Mister Olympus posted:I've never heard of any zodiac order correlation, at least not one as consistent as the legion numbers. I was just using the zodiac numbers as they're usually listed of Aries → Taurus → Gemini → Cancer → Leo → Virgo → Libra → Scorpio → Sagittarius → Capricorn → Aquarius → Pisces. So just interesting coincidences in how some of them line up
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Aug 13, 2020 23:45
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apparently the summoned heroes are all references to other final fantasy games? i know the first sword guy looks like fighter from FF1 and a friend said that the dragoon that shoots down your balloon looks like kain from ffiv but i didn't notice and i haven't gone back to rewatch it yet. has anyone figured out all the references yet?
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Aug 13, 2020 23:49
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Splash Attack posted:apparently the summoned heroes are all references to other final fantasy games? i know the first sword guy looks like fighter from FF1 and a friend said that the dragoon that shoots down your balloon looks like kain from ffiv but i didn't notice and i haven't gone back to rewatch it yet. Well the basic AF armour is basically Kain's. The party that Eli/WoL summons in his trial apparently resembles the FFIV crew very heavily.
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Aug 13, 2020 23:51
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Somebody is trying to write out the lyrics for the boss theme, To The Edge.
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Aug 13, 2020 23:58
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I don't know that I've ever seen one of those get closer than like 80% correct, but it's always fun to see the attempts.
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Aug 14, 2020 00:03
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I think Equilibrium's fan transcription was the best. Completely wrong, and completely missed the theme of the song.
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Aug 14, 2020 00:09
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Elidibus was 100% a child as well. His shade's appearance at the end wasn't small just "so it could look more depressed" or any poo poo like that. Elidibus was 100% a child. In every Echo memory flash back with him, he is looking up at the other Ancients. And in one of the flashbacks they say how he is "so consumed with his studies" instead of enjoying the nice weather. Elidibus was a child who just wanted to be the hero. This also creates a link to the questing you did at the beginning of 5.3 with.... children who want to be the Warrior of Light. This all makes me feel like the writers had just finished reading "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas"
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Aug 14, 2020 00:11
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this probably got speculated on a lot already during 5.2 but the fact that the weapon storyline uses the 8th legion means we might see time compression by the end of it
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Aug 14, 2020 00:20
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It's the VIIth legion again under a new Legatus.
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Aug 14, 2020 00:24
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Depends if youre talking about the weapon quest or the WEAPON quest
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Aug 14, 2020 00:26
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Oh yeah. I just jumped straight to the Werlyt Weapon quests in my head.
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Aug 14, 2020 00:27
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can't believe the WoL honest-to-god punched a baby. maybe we were the real [jet black villains] all along...
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Aug 14, 2020 00:29
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bozja has the fourth legion tho right
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Aug 14, 2020 00:31
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