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Alan Smithee posted:Uh before GOT it had to be Lost by far Seinfeld was watched by quite a bit more people than Lost.
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Aug 13, 2020 20:43
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Groovelord Neato posted:Seinfeld was watched by quite a bit more people than Lost. I feel like the finale of Seinfeld was probably the last must watch episode of TV.
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Aug 13, 2020 20:57
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I never really watched the show, but didn't How I Met Your Mother catch a ton of poo poo for its ending?
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Aug 13, 2020 20:58
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if its got Robert Pattison, Im watching it.
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Aug 13, 2020 21:08
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Enos Cabell posted:I never really watched the show, but didn't How I Met Your Mother catch a ton of poo poo for its ending? It did because it was very bad.
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Aug 13, 2020 21:08
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Red Bones posted:The one thing I don't like about Beyond is that everything introduced in the story comes back as a component of the plot in some way. Chekov's phaser
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Aug 13, 2020 21:54
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I liked the last episode of Lost fine enough. The central conflict was solved by Matthew Fox and Terry O'Quinn punching each other, what's not to love? What soured me and probably a lot of viewers on the last season was that the MacGuffin for the central conflict was introduced literally the episode before the last, after an endless row of episodes that seemed to tread water. It felt like homework done five minutes before the lesson started, and it didn't really matter how much of it had the "correct" content. It was just a mess.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:00
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An important fact to keep in mind about why Lost was the way it was towards the end was greatly influenced by ABC wanting to milk every penny from that show and not entirely Lindelofs creative decisions. Lindelof had to fight tooth and nail to get that show to only 6 seasons and get a reduced episode count for 4-6. ABC wanted at least 8 and still wanted roughly 20 eps per season. IIRC Lindelof originally wanted it to be 5 at most. Keep in mind there are 121 episodes of Lost, that is DOUBLE what TV shows like GoT cover and that is on a major cable network in 2004. Its just an entirely different landscape of writing than what it is often compared to now. A lot of people like to chalk up every one of the shows faults in later seasons to purely writing gaffs but there was a lot of network influences forcing writers into corners they had trouble getting out of. SyFy Wire did a great podcast on the show last year and the last episode is an interview with Lindelof and Cuse and they go into a ton of detail about what went on behind the scenes between ABC and the writers room. Ill never excuse some of the dumb choices they made in that show in later seasons, but theres a lot of 2004 network TV realities people do not ever factor into what happened with the show towards the end and put it entirely on the writers rooms shoulders.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:32
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I always found the end of Lost to be appropriate and satisfying. The hatred has always seemed irrational to me.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:44
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It focuses more on ending character arcs than solving island mysteries and it turns out the fanbase was mostly more interested in the latter. It was the canary in the coal mine for “canon is more important than storytelling” becoming the dominant ideology of media.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:45
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How I Met Your Mother is absolutely a terrible finale and was the go to alongside Dexter after lost but before GoT. GoT just managed to poo poo the bed even harder, doing it over two seasons and in front if a global audience, that its all the more impressive. Lost was interesting for me because being a weirdo who had watched anime's with mystery plots and terrible loving endings I refused to get invested in it until it wrapped up. At the time everyone I knew was like "you're an idiot they clearly have a plan it all fits you gotta watch it!" and then around season 5 and definitely the finale suddenly everyone was like "good decision not to waste your time on this". It basically cemented my opinion to never watch tv shows until they finish unless they're comedies/status quo resets.
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Aug 14, 2020 00:47
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Lindelof has a distinct style and voice, you always know what youre getting with him.that means all the same flaws are there too. I love The Leftovers, but that show also has some cracks that are glossed over because it doesnt have the footprint of Lost, or of a major sci-fi franchise.and lets be honest, 50% of The Leftovers charm was the absolutely amazing performances by Carrie Coon and Theroux.Mimi Leder was also a inspired choice. He always seems to do better in ensemble caracther stories where the plot feels bigger than them. Someone convince him to write a show with steve conrad.
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Aug 14, 2020 00:47
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Groovelord Neato posted:It did because it was very bad. It and Dexter ended at roughly the same time and it’s like the show runners were having a “piss off the fans” competition
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Aug 14, 2020 00:48
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HIMYM’s finale was so bad that it killed any residual interest in the show and that’s why it’s not even airing in syndication now.
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Aug 14, 2020 00:56
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CopywrightMMXI posted:HIMYM’s finale was so bad that it killed any residual interest in the show and that’s why it’s not even airing in syndication now. And it killed a spinoff.
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Aug 14, 2020 00:58
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What about the ending to Battlestar Galactica? Didn't the showrunners admit that they were making things up as they went along? Something about their experiences with Star Trek: Deep Space Nine taught them that long term planning was pointless because outside influences (studio execs, actors demanding to write/direct, etc.) would mess it up. I would say the Walking Dead but that show is still shambling along somehow. Cowboy Bebop had a good ending.
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Aug 14, 2020 01:00
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DC Murderverse posted:It and Dexter ended at roughly the same time and it’s like the show runners were having a “piss off the fans” competition Other competitors I can think of on this tier of stupid-rear end finale: Enterprise, Sons of Anarchy
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Aug 14, 2020 01:09
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MH Knights posted:What about the ending to Battlestar Galactica? Didn't the showrunners admit that they were making things up as they went along? Something about their experiences with Star Trek: Deep Space Nine taught them that long term planning was pointless because outside influences (studio execs, actors demanding to write/direct, etc.) would mess it up. Only one of the showrunners worked on DS9, and if you look into stuff on how they came up with ideas for show, almost all of the terrible decisions (including the entire concept of the Cylons having "a plan" which the writers could never fully deliver on) came from David Eick, the non-DS9 guy. Which if you look at his resume, is not surprising. Also the writers' strike led to them completely changing their ideas for the back half of the final season, and I think the original idea would have been a lot better.
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Aug 14, 2020 01:12
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The actual ending of Lost is pretty good and is largely the type of ending one might expect. The last season leading up to it though was pretty rough. I rewatched the whole series a couple years back and from about midway through season 3 up through the end of season 5 is really drat strong. Then you have to work your way though season 6.
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Aug 14, 2020 01:18
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CopywrightMMXI posted:HIMYM’s finale was so bad that it killed any residual interest in the show and that’s why it’s not even airing in syndication now. I'm in the dark about this, what was so bad about it?
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Aug 14, 2020 01:23
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Byzantine posted:I'm in the dark about this, what was so bad about it? So the entire show they'd been cutting to shots of "the kids" he was telling this story to, and they filmed all of these ahead of time because otherwise the kids were going to age up. This meant that they stuck with the ending they'd planned way back when, ahead of all the development or changes the cast went through. And that's why everyone was furious when the final scene we see reveals this entire tale of how I met your mom was describing their NOW DEAD MOTHER in the present (who we only met in the final season!) and Dad was telling this tale to get permission from the kids to go gently caress Robin. If I don't misremember. Imagine if your sitcom ends with the montage that opens Up and then the old man's response to loneliness is asking his children "but I can still bang this woman who you treat as an aunt, right? That's cool?" It's so tonally hosed on a lot of levels.
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Aug 14, 2020 01:25
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END ME SCOOB posted:So the entire show they'd been cutting to shots of "the kids" he was telling this story to, and they filmed all of these ahead of time because otherwise the kids were going to age up. This meant that they stuck with the ending they'd planned way back when, ahead of all the development or changes the cast went through. Hahaha, drat.
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Aug 14, 2020 01:27
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Byzantine posted:I'm in the dark about this, what was so bad about it? Spent all the seasons building up to it. The final season takes place over 1 day at 2 of the characters wedding where everyone but Ted meets the mother and has a moment with her. In the final episode they finally meet and then after a little bit of how they started dating and such, they finally get married, and only really because Ted knocked her up and then she dies. The whole shows plotline about Future Ted telling the story of How he Met the Mother was all so that he could get their permission to hook up with one of the other main characters who he spent the whole shows run in love with. Which by the end of the series everyone was super tired of. It was just utter trash. DurosKlav fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 01:31
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MH Knights posted:What about the ending to Battlestar Galactica? Didn't the showrunners admit that they were making things up as they went along? Something about their experiences with Star Trek: Deep Space Nine taught them that long term planning was pointless because outside influences (studio execs, actors demanding to write/direct, etc.) would mess it up. BSG at least had a dramatic, interesting ending that wrapped up everyone's stories even as it didn't make a whole lot of sense. GOT managed to not make sense and also not resolve anyone's arcs satisfactorily. The only major aspect that doesn't pay off is the idea that the cylons have a plan, since they seemed to be making it up as they went along, and had forgotten about half their own members. It more became a different show about exploring ancient mysteries rather than fighting the cylons. I would understand if someone held that against the show. DurosKlav posted:Spent all the seasons building up to it. The final season takes place over 1 day at 2 of the characters wedding where everyone but Ted meets the mother and has a moment with her. In the final episode they finally meet and then after a little bit of how they started dating and such, they finally get married, and only really because Ted knocked her up and then she dies. The whole shows plotline about Future Ted telling the story of How he Met the Mother was all so that he could get their permission to hook up with one of the other main characters who he spent the whole shows run in love with. Which by the end of the series everyone was super tired of. Will they won't they things are generally the loving worst (scrubs was especially bad on changing whether whosits and elliot would stay together) and they get worse as the show goes on longer, but himym managed to be even worse by undercutting the actual point of the whole show. There's a fan edit that just cuts the last five minutes and ends with ted's monologue and it's a bajillion times better. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 01:49
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DurosKlav posted:Spent all the seasons building up to it. The final season takes place over 1 day at 2 of the characters wedding where everyone but Ted meets the mother and has a moment with her. In the final episode they finally meet and then after a little bit of how they started dating and such, they finally get married, and only really because Ted knocked her up and then she dies. The whole shows plotline about Future Ted telling the story of How he Met the Mother was all so that he could get their permission to hook up with one of the other main characters who he spent the whole shows run in love with. Which by the end of the series everyone was super tired of. oh man. I gotta go find a watch thread or live blog or something like that of this
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Aug 14, 2020 01:50
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Mr Gentleman posted:oh man. I gotta go find a watch thread or live blog or something like that of this Im sure the TVIV thread is in the archives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgj16KSgtIE This video does a good job of explaining it from what I've seen of it. The creators set the ending up all the way back at the beginning of the show and stuck with it. The problem being after so many seasons the characters and such had changed dramatically to the point where it wouldnt work anymore. Robin spent years rejecting Ted and telling him she didnt want to have kids which is something he very much wanted and that she wanted to focus on her career not a family. They spent years and years building up the mother with various clues and plot threads only to have her mean pretty much nothing. DurosKlav fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 01:56
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Mr Gentleman posted:oh man. I gotta go find a watch thread or live blog or something like that of this I'm going to link you to the point prior to the finale in the final thread and let you laugh as it begins with the words "This show has been really good lately". https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3570831&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=69 Watch the chaos unfold.
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Aug 14, 2020 01:58
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Ultimately BSG ended good enough, but it was the last 2 minute-ish postscript scene that just completely turned me against it. You had something great where all the character beats ended well and you poo poo all over it with a final scene where the characters grab the camera and look straight in going DO YOU GET IT? DO YOU SEE THE PARALLEL???????
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Aug 14, 2020 02:32
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Yeah the ending of How I Met Your Mother is kind of incredible because it was a completely unforced error, just not using that footage would have been fine enough but instead that show is not on syndication because nobody wants to be involved with it. Watching it live was incredible because everyone hated it. With other bad endings you get people damage controlling due to their time investment but here it was instantaneous "gently caress this show gently caress it forever". Game of Thrones at least had some neutral or mildly positive ending think piece articles but HIMYM's most positive articles about its ending were "other show runners can learn from this egregious error"
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Aug 14, 2020 02:37
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I have to wonder about the 5 GOT prequels and if any of them will ever come out. I can't be the only one who has no interest in finding out about the first Dragon King or Stark or whoever when I know it all ends with such a whimper. None of the mysteries have any allure to me. Executives might only care about money, but they have to give a poo poo that their golden franchise got permanently stained in the popular imagination.
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Aug 14, 2020 02:47
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I loved the Dexter finale just for the reaction of the fans. The lumberjack thing was dumb, no arguments there, but for years fans were saying "The show has to end with him arrested or dead. It has to. IT HAS TO!!!!" It reminded me of when fans who ship lose their minds when the show/movie/book doesn't pair up the characters that they want paired up.
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Aug 14, 2020 02:52
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Dexter's ending had a problem where Showtime told the showrunners that no matter what they couldn't give the ending of the series any finality because they wanted to leave it open for a revival down the line.
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Aug 14, 2020 02:54
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Smirking_Serpent posted:I have to wonder about the 5 GOT prequels and if any of them will ever come out. I can't be the only one who has no interest in finding out about the first Dragon King or Stark or whoever when I know it all ends with such a whimper. None of the mysteries have any allure to me. I feel like we get one tops. I think those are as dead as the showrunners' "Confederate" which also went dead loving silent.
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Aug 14, 2020 03:00
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Smirking_Serpent posted:I have to wonder about the 5 GOT prequels and if any of them will ever come out. I can't be the only one who has no interest in finding out about the first Dragon King or Stark or whoever when I know it all ends with such a whimper. None of the mysteries have any allure to me. Someone might do a really good show or movie with the Dunk and Egg stories. But after the ending it's not happening.
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Aug 14, 2020 03:36
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END ME SCOOB posted:I feel like we get one tops. I think those are as dead as the showrunners' "Confederate" which also went dead loving silent. Or their Star Wars which was taken out back and shot. Its impressive because not only did they absolutely destroy the brand with the ending, they then went on to give interviews clarifying how bad at their jobs they were and how they weren't responsible as show runners which is why they lost all their other gigs too except the Netflix thing.
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Aug 14, 2020 03:49
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END ME SCOOB posted:I feel like we get one tops. I think those are as dead as the showrunners' "Confederate" which also went dead loving silent. I was kinda disappointed in that, tbh. Most if not all "what if the south won" stuff is lazy and just has one absorb the other, a world where the South broke off and then there's two States of America jockeying for position during the 20th century has potential. I mean, I get it, but still.
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Aug 14, 2020 04:03
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GOT's ending actually had the same problem as HIMYM in that they obviously wrote an ending that had to fit with the original plan (re: how the book's author planned to end the series). The difference is that GOT's ending reads better in a vacuum than HIMYM's. The good guys all turning on each other as they attempt to take Westeros from the villains culminating in them enacting or participating in a supreme act of civilian genocide is thematically fitting but boy did they muff the execution.
CPFortest fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 04:25
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END ME SCOOB posted:So the entire show they'd been cutting to shots of "the kids" he was telling this story to, and they filmed all of these ahead of time because otherwise the kids were going to age up. This meant that they stuck with the ending they'd planned way back when, ahead of all the development or changes the cast went through. Also they built up to this woman for 7 years and teased all sorts of really cool women as potential mothers and so finding a woman who could actually live up to all that was such a tall task and they found her and still hosed it up. It cannot be overstated how perfect Cristin Milioti is (in that role and generally) and how they threaded the needle of finding someone that was lovable enough that she could hang with characters who fans had followed for years and totally believable as someone you could fall in love with the first time you meet her and pretty seamlessly integrated into the timeline of the show. You see her sing La Vie en Rose on a ukulele, which should be impossibly twee but instead it completely melts your heart because of how good their casting was, and by the time you’ve spent the season watching her and Ted’s love story blossom and everyone was ready to watch them ride into the sunset and then they put a cap in her rear end and siked everyone out. It’s like catching a potentially game-winning pick-six after you let a massive comeback happen and then at the one yard-line you drop the ball before the endzone because you want to flex and end up losing the game. Everyone go watch Palm Springs, she’s also perfect in that movie even if she doesn’t get to sing.
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Aug 14, 2020 04:25
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Cael posted:Ultimately BSG ended good enough, but it was the last 2 minute-ish postscript scene that just completely turned me against it. You had something great where all the character beats ended well and you poo poo all over it with a final scene where the characters grab the camera and look straight in going DO YOU GET IT? DO YOU SEE THE PARALLEL??????? Hard agree on this. The overall ending had a lot of literal deus ex machina and other goofy poo poo, and they obviously never had any idea what some of the plot threads were supposed to be, but it was still entertaining and sorta wraps things up OH WAIT it's dancing robot montage! It was both hamfisted and moronic, and retroactively poo poo up the whole series. quote:[Lost] focuses more on ending character arcs than solving island mysteries and it turns out the fanbase was mostly more interested in the latter.
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Aug 14, 2020 04:31
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Barudak posted:Or their Star Wars which was taken out back and shot. With every one of their post episode recap interview things they were doing at the end of the episodes, it became more and more clear that they had no loving idea what they were doing at all. I'm pretty sure they contradicted themselves about why dany did what she did, even within the one interview.
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Aug 14, 2020 04:49
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