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Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
5.3 also makes Praetorium, and specifically Gaius' college freshman atheist rant, hilarious.

Calling the Twelve just another bunch of primals, Gaius? You're talking to Azemya. Or at least a fragment of the woman whom the myths of Azemya/Azim are based on.

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No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

If I make one prediction for 6.0 it will be that Fandaniel tries to turn on Zenos and gives him a 'you were just a pawn in my grand scheme' speech and Zenos just goes haha no and effortlessly bodies him

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


Do we know enough about the writing structure of the FFXIV expansion cycle to say Ishikawa would even be on the next one? My assumption is: they laid the scene out for this expac back in HW, so she was a part of that process and maybe was even planning the broad strokes of the story then and during Stormblood. If that was the case (and it very well might not be, I am talking completely out of my rear end), it would make sense for another writer to take the lead on the next expansion because they were doing their own work during Shadowbringers.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


Also I love that scene with Zenos and Fandaniel because Fandaniel is just loving hamming it up for an audience of no one, clearly loving this poo poo just for its own sake, and Zenos is completely loving stonefaced the entire time. Just does not give one single poo poo about any of it.

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

What interests me about the Zenos/fandaniel dynamic is that Fandaniel very clearly does not know what he’s loving with by being in Zenos’ proximity, and he’s seemingly got a whole song and dance routine he relies on that’s just falling loving flat in this instance, because zenos doesn’t give a poo poo about anything he can offer aside from facilitating his 1v1s.

Vitamean
May 31, 2012

drat daniel will be dead by level 85.

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

Vitamean posted:

drat daniel will be dead by level 85.

I mean, assuming Zenos doesn’t murk him by 5.5

Vitamean
May 31, 2012

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

I mean, assuming Zenos doesn’t murk him by 5.5

still counts

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I like a lot of the themes present in Zenos' character even if the writing fell a bit flat in Stormblood, but I think the fact that he starts respecting you rather than starting not giving a poo poo about you will help a lot. Plus, if anyone can make Zenos a good villain, it's Ishikawa.

Veotax
May 16, 2006


I enjoy hammy Zenos from the end of 4.0 onward. He felt a bit back to being boring Zenos in that last scene, but I imagine that's since he's bored out of his mind without the WoL around and having to put up with Danny.

I liked him being a wild card, assassinating Emperor Dad for being a distraction to the WoL and then loving off leaving the empire in a civil war because he doesn't give a poo poo about ruling. Little worried that he's apparently now taken over, but I'm willing to see where this is going. Hopefully he'll be back to chewing scenery soon.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



Waffleman_ posted:

We are absolutely going on a sundered Ascian murder spree in 6.0 lol

It sounded like this happened in 5.3 as well, completely offscreen

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
the story of ffxiv has had the consistent theme of "violence is often necessary but always hosed up" whereas the gameplay has been "violence loving RULES" and the inherent tension there is a story hook that Zenos tries (inexpertly) to say something about. I liked that, even if it was executed kind of poorly, and would love to see it done again but better

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

It sounded like this happened in 5.3 as well, completely offscreen

I think there's a difference between the sundered red masks, who are members of the convocation who have been manually unsundered by gathering up the their souls from the various worlds, and the black masked ascians who are just cannon fodder

at this point I honestly expect defeating a sundered red mask to be the kind of thing that has little enough fanfare they could do it in a dungeon instead of a trial

black masks are the mobs leading up to the boss in that dungeon

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011

Waffleman_ posted:

We dunno if she's gonna be on 6.0 though but probably yeah considering how well ShB was recieved.
Ishikawa has been one of two head writers on FFXIV since Heavensward (well, really 2.x, but ARR only lists Kazutoyo Maehiro).

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
my understanding is that concepting and outlining is a team process but someone has to actually commit the words to paper (and then rewriting and editing is again a team process). Ishikawa handled the Coerthas sections of ARR, some things in HW I forget what, the Doma sections of Stormblood, and the entire MSQ for Shadowbringers

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



Does that include patch content

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011


I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

I believe she said she was only in charge of one of the patches and I think this was it.

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

cheetah7071 posted:

at this point I honestly expect defeating a sundered red mask to be the kind of thing that has little enough fanfare they could do it in a dungeon instead of a trial

Igeyorhm means it has been for a long time, but I think most remaining convocation members will get a bit more characterization than she had.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



Oh yeah they did that weird Ascian merging stuff, has that ever come up again

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.
I mean it's basically what Hades does in his fight, only he's not a total loser so it's a million times more impressive looking.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Arist posted:

Also I love that scene with Zenos and Fandaniel because Fandaniel is just loving hamming it up for an audience of no one, clearly loving this poo poo just for its own sake, and Zenos is completely loving stonefaced the entire time. Just does not give one single poo poo about any of it.

We've never seen Zenos have to play the straight man before, and I kinda love it because he clearly just hates it. It's not even like when Varis had to deal with Emet, because Varis was just kinda jaded to it all, Zenos is clearly actively loathing every second he has to spend with this idiot. It turns out Zenos is more fun as the straight man, and that's great!

And while I'm sure a conga line of fishing out the remaining Ascians would be fun, because I now trust them to make the Ascians interesting, the part I'd most look forward to there is however they'd handle the reveal of 'wait, Emmerololth already died?' They're the only one that died with no living witnesses, and that death reveal itself is practically errata, so I kinda just want to see the moment of collective surprise when people find out that people who aren't Warriors of Light pulled that off, even at great sacrifice.

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

Emmerololth was the one who got merced by Galuf and co at Baldesion right? I'm still on Pyros.

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies
yes.

Mitron, Emmerololth, Loghrif: died by NPCs

Lahabrea, Emet-Selch, Igeyorhm, Nabriales, Elidibus: die in main story

Pashtarot, Fandaniel, Halmarut, Deudalaphon: Remaining

Altima: ????? probably remaining but might have some poo poo to do with Ivalice?

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011


I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Imagining the Days of Future Past cover but with pictures of the Ascians

Also don't forget Travanchet lol

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



I am sorry, his name is friggin "FANDANIEL", just like how I can't help but tear up when thinking about a bunch of moments in 5.3, I can't help but giggle every time I read that name

BisbyWorl
Jan 12, 2019

Knowledge is pain plus observation.


Fandaniel Radcliffe

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

Waffleman_ posted:

Imagining the Days of Future Past cover but with pictures of the Ascians

Also don't forget Travanchet lol

Well, given the titles have been gradually more relevant-

Pashtarot, the Knight-Star
Fandaniel, the Protector
Halmarut, the Arbiter
Deudalaphon, the Benevolent

One of those last two? Possibly his 'job' in the convocation is essentially what we've seen him do; find methods of supplying summoners with the required crystals.

MadFriarAvelyn
Sep 25, 2007

The old Mining Internally video was all an Ascian plot to recruit Warriors of Light from other timelines that were tired of listening to Minfillia in an attempt to build an ever growing supply of crystals for Zodiark.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Ibblebibble posted:

Emmerololth was the one who got merced by Galuf and co at Baldesion right? I'm still on Pyros.

Yes. And this fact is only confirmed by an entirely optional textbox found by reading a discarded book at the end of the Eureka storyline. In-story, the only person outside of you that might know among the Scions is Krile, and even that's not clear.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
Again, Zenos is just the inevitable consequence of the Ascians' mission once it loses its guiding ideology. We need a simple monster as payoff for the complex, nuanced, and human villains' terrible, futile ambitions. He's their new Amaurot as it really exists, and now everyone has to live with that.

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011


I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Mitron and Loghrif's fates are only in the Encyclopedia Eorzea as well, so no one knows as of yet.

Sentient Data
Aug 31, 2011

My molecule scrambler ray will disintegrate your armor with one blow!
So, I'm on board with the idea that Maker's Ruin is the WoL's theme rather than Ultima's, and that leads to an interesting question - what's the song title referencing?

Does it mean that we're what will destroy the maker, and if so, exactly which entity is the maker? The Asians? Crystal Mom? The Twelve?

Or to be a little more abstract, is it "ruin" as in remains? Maybe as far back as 2.0 they were dropping hints that the WoL was what remained of the Ancients... Though to be fair, almost all of these (excerpt referring to Hydalyn) would work better if the title was Makers' Ruin

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Sentient Data posted:

So, I'm on board with the idea that Maker's Ruin is the WoL's theme rather than Ultima's, and that leads to an interesting question - what's the song title referencing?

Does it mean that we're what will destroy the maker, and if so, exactly which entity is the maker? The Asians? Crystal Mom? The Twelve?

Or to be a little more abstract, is it "ruin" as in remains? Maybe as far back as 2.0 they were dropping hints that the WoL was what remained of the Ancients... Though to be fair, almost all of these (excerpt referring to Hydalyn) would work better if the title was Makers' Ruin

My first guess is Zodiark. He's the one who made the world as it is today, and we are the one bringing ruin to his works.

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

Arist posted:

Also I love that scene with Zenos and Fandaniel because Fandaniel is just loving hamming it up for an audience of no one, clearly loving this poo poo just for its own sake, and Zenos is completely loving stonefaced the entire time. Just does not give one single poo poo about any of it.

I was waiting for Zenos to snap and murder him, so yeah I'm on team 'he's going to get sick of this poo poo.' I really really hope Zenos isn't actually the primary villain of 6.0 though, since we already played that expansion. That said, we presumably still have to deal with the Empire once and for all at some point, and he's just about the only character left we know (aside from Gaius), so maybe it's inevitable.

aegof
Mar 2, 2011

Waffleman_ posted:

Mitron and Loghrif's fates are only in the Encyclopedia Eorzea as well, so no one knows as of yet.

Is there more to it than "Ardbert & crew killed them?" Pretty sure WoL knows that, at least.

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011


I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Was it said in the game?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!
I think it came up in the all-roles capstone quest, but I don't recall exactly.

YES bread
Jun 16, 2006

Sentient Data posted:

So, I'm on board with the idea that Maker's Ruin is the WoL's theme rather than Ultima's, and that leads to an interesting question - what's the song title referencing?

WoL is notorious for wilding out on some bourbon

YES bread
Jun 16, 2006
everyone is so sick of villains with understandable motivations and tragic backstories. "please" theyre crying out, "just let me bunch a dude in a nazi uniform!!!"

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Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!

Waffleman_ posted:

Mitron and Loghrif's fates are only in the Encyclopedia Eorzea as well, so no one knows as of yet.

I thought this was one of the lore drops Emet will give to you when he's just standing around mid-MSQ in 5.0?

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