Dungeon Crawl: coglin chaos knights have an unfortunate abbreviation

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tylertfb: Mar 3, 2004; Time.Space.Transmat.

Weapon choice time:

I am a Demonspawn of Oka, base str = 17
a) +9 scimitar of flaming (11 base damage)
b) +2 randart double sword of slicing, Mr+, Str+8 (14 base damage)

long blades skill is at mindelay for both.
How does the damage output compare between the two?

# ? Aug 10, 2020 17:23

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 13:53

bees x1000: Jun 11, 2020

My gut says the double sword is slightly better here, because base damage is the most heavily weighted thing in damage calculation.

Of course, if the devs weren't so insistent on hiding numbers from the player then people wouldn't have to keep asking these questions. Do you know the difference between . and ! and !!! ?

and no, running fsim is not an acceptable solution to this problem

# ? Aug 10, 2020 17:31

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Back of the envelope calculation here, but flaming does up to 50% extra fire damage, slicing does up 33% extra physical damage for an average of about 16%. It's pretty close, but having the same attack delay and considering the bonus strength, I think you would do higher straight damage per hit with the randart against anything that is not weak to fire and definitely against anything that is strong to fire. Lower chance to hit, though. The scimitar is really nice and if nothing else it's worth keeping around for hydras.

# ? Aug 10, 2020 17:34

Arzaac: Jan 2, 2020

I'd also lean towards the double sword because MR is amazing and having it on a strong weapon is even better.

# ? Aug 10, 2020 18:09

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

That is one hell of a good bonus and I'd personally also pick the randart just for that, yes. A tiny bit less damage per hit is a more than acceptable trade-off for something that might save your life later and keeps being useful no matter where you go.

# ? Aug 10, 2020 18:17

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

Also the str is probably worth around 4 slaying anyway, in addition to its effects on your armour. Definitely the 2sword.

# ? Aug 10, 2020 20:56

Slaapaav: Mar 3, 2006; by Azathoth

why havent they removed abyss and adders its not fun? ive played this game for 10+ years and ive never had fun with them . does anyone itt enjoy these features?

# ? Aug 11, 2020 00:12

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

The Abyss is so eminently avoidable that I do not think I've ever gone there involuntarily after the first time it happened to me, so I see no reason whatsoever to remove it. In the last fifteen years, I don't think I've had to deal with it more than three or four times total. 15-rune wins are for people who are willing to drag themselves through a lot of very painful content as a mark of distinction and I feel no need to get rid of it just if there are people left who want to have it.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 00:20

Canine Blues Arooo: Jan 7, 2008; when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with; Grimey Drawer

Abyss is fine and I like that it as a threat in the mid game. I don't necessarily like how it's invoked, but some of my favorite moments are getting sent to the abyss before I was ready for it and then escaping. It's a very 'pure' roguelike experience where you have to overcome this obstacle that feels unfair up front, but you frequently have the tools to do it.

I actually think the design of Abyss 1 - 5 is a good change in modern crawl as there is this distinction between Abyss being this scary place you want to leave and Abyss being this place you must deeply traverse for a reward.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 02:20

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

I personally like that when you are adequately prepared for it, the shallow Abyss is actually often an improvement over where you were at the moment you got banished into it. I think Lugonu's entire top-level ability is about exploiting that for a very reliable escape ability, isn't it? It's a real threat at low levels. It quickly turns into more of an asset at mid to high levels. That's really cool and it's a neat mechanic. You don't often see content that can be revisited at multiple points in a run and will have different uses at each of them. The fact that it also contains a rune is pretty much an afterthought to me.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 02:24

Meunkin: Sep 11, 2001; puppiespuppiespuppies

Weapon choice request, in endgame, MiBe of TSO, doing hells.

+12 Exe axe (vorpal, Dex +4)
or
+9 Exe axe (holy wrath)

Holy wrath seems bonkers good in the code, good enough to beat out an extra +3 enchant and some bonus dex?

# ? Aug 11, 2020 05:40

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Holy wrath against anything that's vulnerable to it, the other one against everything else

# ? Aug 11, 2020 05:48

bees x1000: Jun 11, 2020

if you're too lazy to switch weapons (like me) just use the vorpal axe

re: Abyss, I think it's an important part of Crawl and it's downsides are outweighed by the flavor they add and the fact that it's generally a completely optional area.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 05:58

Caustic Soda: Nov 1, 2010

Except you can encounter Banishment well before you have a character capable of surviving the Abyss. Being stuck in the Abyss with a doomed character is an intensely unfun experience, IMO. It's so unfun I'd actually prefer if Banishment was replaced with a % chance to kill a character outright, even though that'd still be terrible gameplay.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 06:28

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

The two types that struggle in the Abyss early on is the unstealthy (though this can be mitigated somewhat by having a good grasp of Line of Sight tactics) and the slow (WELP!); all the rest have a healthy chance of making it out of there. Early Banishment you aren't there to kill things, you're there to hide in the blind corners of the ever-changing landscape, moving away from encounters. It's not only the portal that can get you out but also stumbling on the altar to Lugonu and converting. Which isn't jumping from the frying pan into the fire, their powers also include an early cheap escape tool as well as turning the power of Banishment for wrath spawns or bouncing out of a heavy HP loss situation for a bit. It's a decently designed area for being randomly generated!

# ? Aug 11, 2020 07:08

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Where exactly do you go that this is a common thing that happens to you before you are able to deal with it? Because I'm not kidding when I say that in fifteen years, I've been there about three times. If this happens to you regularly, then maybe the solution would be for you to just stop going there so early.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 20:09

PlasticAutomaton: Nov 12, 2016; Artoria Pendonut

Seriously, there's only a handful of things that have a chance of abyssing you early. Distortion weapons, which are rare, and like one or two uniques. The biggest threat of that is Elven Halls, which you should never enter before having 3+ pips of MR, and is one of the most dangerous areas in the mid-game.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 20:56

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Generally speaking barring a fluky appearance of a wizard from a vault or Vault entrance, the only time I get abyssed before I would like it to happen is during an unlucky dive into Orc or Elf.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 21:27

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

I go through Elf in basically every game I play because its final vault tends to generate really good stuff in my experience, but I've never been banished there, neven even mind in Orc. Makes me wonder why some people seem to be so unlucky with that.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 21:41

tylertfb: Mar 3, 2004; Time.Space.Transmat.

tylertfb posted:

Weapon choice time:

I am a Demonspawn of Oka, base str = 17
a) +9 scimitar of flaming (11 base damage)
b) +2 randart double sword of slicing, Mr+, Str+8 (14 base damage)

long blades skill is at mindelay for both.
How does the damage output compare between the two?

Turns out weapon choice is pretty academic when you can cast singularity, ignition, and tornado

https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/hoshi/morgue-hoshi-20200811-212242.txt

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.22-a0-998-g47aa21b7c3 (webtiles) character file.

10841983 hoshi the Plane Walker (level 27, 273/273 HPs)
             Began as a Demonspawn Archaeologist on Aug 8, 2020.
             Was an Initiate of Gozag.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Aug 11, 2020!
             
             The game lasted 09:55:27 (162047 turns).

hoshi the Plane Walker (Demonspawn Archaeologist) Turns: 162047, Time: 09:55:28

Health: 273/273    AC: 44    Str: 26    XL:     27
Magic:  56/56      EV: 32    Int: 24    God:    Gozag
Gold:   24006      SH: 13    Dex: 14    Spells: 2/80 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis +   b - +17 lance "Wyrmbane" {slay drac, rPois rF+ rC+ AC+3}
rCold    + + +     Gourm    .   k - +3 warlock's mirror {reflect}
rNeg     + + +     Faith    .   V - +10 pearl dragon scales
rPois    &#8734;         Spirit   .   Y - +0 Maxwell's etheric cage {RegenMP+ *Contam rElec MP+4}
rElec    +         Reflect  +   i - scarf {rC+ rF+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   S - +2 pair of boots {run}
MR       +++..                  P - amulet of Imudeplis {Acrobat rF+ Str+6 Int-3 SInv}
Stlth    +++.......             K - ring "Duykk" {Wiz rC+ MP+9 Int+7}
HPRegen  0.55/turn              I - ring "Jikk" {MP+9 EV+4 Slay+3 Stlth+}
MPRegen  0.85/turn*

@: lich-form, quick
A: claws 3, see invisible, cold resistance 1, demonic guardian 3, high mp 1,
negative energy resistance 1, sense surroundings 1, poison resistance, robust 1,
spiny 3, 50% torment resistance, strong 1, black mark, MP-powered wands, sturdy
frame 3
0: Orb of Zot
}: 15/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian, icy, bone,
abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer
a: End Transformation, Release Permanent Buffs, Potion Petition, Call Merchant,
Bribe Branch, Renounce Religion


You escaped.
You worshipped Gozag.
Gozag was extremely pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You have taken no pledge.

You were a lich.

You visited 18 branches of the dungeon, and saw 90 of its levels.
You visited Pandemonium 1 time, and saw 12 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 5 times.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You visited 4 ziggurats (completing 3), and saw 105 of their levels.
You also visited: Ice Cave, Wizlab and Desolation.

You collected 96620 gold pieces.
You spent 7311 gold pieces at shops.
You paid 65303 gold pieces to Gozag.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 01:11

Caustic Soda: Nov 1, 2010

Tl;dr: Ignore me, my bad experiences are from back when you could learn an enemy is wielding a short sword of distortion the first time it triggers in your face, when the spell-ists of Uniques didn't appear on right-click, etc.

@Cardiovorax & @PlasticAutomaton

Being abyssed is not a thing that happens to me regularly. I think I've had it happen like 5 times over the years I've played crawl. On reflection, my bad experiences with banishment are a relic of how long I've played, since before the modern UI improvements. For context, I got started sometime before they removed dwarf armor, back when you learned how to wield a shield by letting a goblin try to attack you repeatedly. Of the 5 times I've been abyssed, only 4 have been intensely unfun. My bad experiences with being Abyssed are things like learning a kobold is weilding a Distortion weapon the first time it activates, encountering Louise before I knew about Knowledge bots, etc.

The one time I got Abyssed in Elf didn't feel nearly as bad. Probably because a) as you say PlasticAutomaton, Elf is already very dangerous, and there are a lot of other things more likely to end my runs there b) going into Elf is an active choice to take a risk.

One of the things I like about Crawl is that when my character dies, it's generally due to a (bunch of) mistake(s) I made, that I can then (fail to) learn from. I feel like Distortion etc. has historically been an exception to that.

@Sage Grimm

I appreciate you going into solutions-mode and coming up with tactics I can use if/when I get Abyssed in the future. I hope I won't have an occasion to put it into practice, but better to have the knowledge and not need it, right

# ? Aug 12, 2020 06:12

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Yeah, I can understand treating Distortion a bit like the "Gnome with a wand of death" once it has happened to you once or twice. It's one of those annoyances that loom large in your memory, even if it doesn't really happen all that often in practice.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 19:03

Arzaac: Jan 2, 2020

It's a bit like getting shafted for 3 floors and landing next to Sigmund.

Or, back in the day, getting caught in the middle of a hallway on D:1 by a kobold with exploding darts.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 20:09

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Ijyb with a bolt wand on d2 lmao

# ? Aug 13, 2020 12:49

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Committed the ports of DCSS's throwing overhaul and identifying monster equipment (courtesy of Surprise T Rex). I don't think anything will break as it looks like it will convert okay. The only thing I found is if you somehow still managed to have a blowgun and needles in your game after conversion, it will crash when you fire them.

Let me know if things break more than that.

# ? Aug 13, 2020 15:21

Slaapaav: Mar 3, 2006; by Azathoth

i rolled a combo i suck with and then i get two potions of experience on D1.......

# ? Aug 14, 2020 18:08

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Floodkiller posted:

Committed the ports of DCSS's throwing overhaul

woo!

quote:

identifying monster equipment

boo!

# ? Aug 15, 2020 03:09

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

Floodkiller posted:

Committed the ports of DCSS's throwing overhaul and identifying monster equipment (courtesy of Surprise T Rex). I don't think anything will break as it looks like it will convert okay. The only thing I found is if you somehow still managed to have a blowgun and needles in your game after conversion, it will crash when you fire them.

Let me know if things break more than that.

heck yeah

# ? Aug 15, 2020 03:21

cock hero flux: Apr 17, 2011

Floodkiller posted:

Committed the ports of DCSS's throwing overhaul

i don't understand why people wanted this

# ? Aug 15, 2020 04:07

Vadun: Mar 9, 2011; I'm hungrier than a green snake in a sugar cane field.

cock hero flux posted:

i don't understand why people wanted this

Boomerangs are cool and darts are way better than blowguns. What are the arguments against?

# ? Aug 15, 2020 06:38

parthenocarpy: Dec 18, 2003

but... but... my lore... my dwarven blowgun.... my elvish needles...

# ? Aug 15, 2020 07:36

Einwand: Nov 3, 2012; You idiot.
In this world it's pet or BE pet.

The only real downside I see to it is making shoals even harder than it already is, by turning every single merfolk javelin into a penetrating one.

# ? Aug 15, 2020 08:39

bees x1000: Jun 11, 2020

is it just me or are none of the lair branches fun

# ? Aug 15, 2020 20:38

tylertfb: Mar 3, 2004; Time.Space.Transmat.

bees x1000 posted:

is it just me or are none of the lair branches fun

I like Snake and Shoals, am ok with Swamp, really dislike Spider

# ? Aug 15, 2020 21:56

Victory Position: Mar 16, 2004

Einwand posted:

The only real downside I see to it is making shoals even harder than it already is, by turning every single merfolk javelin into a penetrating one.

At this point in time, given one's ability to see missiles flying at one's self, I'm not sure why there isn't a Dark Souls-style Force spell that just causes every and all things flying at you to immediately pivot in place and fly back towards the caster/thrower/yaktaur.

I know Deflect Missiles is more or less gone, but you would have thought they would have put a more proactive version back into place.

# ? Aug 16, 2020 00:03

Pigbuster: Sep 12, 2010; Fun Shoe

Victory Position posted:

At this point in time, given one's ability to see missiles flying at one's self, I'm not sure why there isn't a Dark Souls-style Force spell that just causes every and all things flying at you to immediately pivot in place and fly back towards the caster/thrower/yaktaur.

I know Deflect Missiles is more or less gone, but you would have thought they would have put a more proactive version back into place.

Makes me imagine a spell like Gell's Gravitas except it makes all nearby items fly into a guy.

# ? Aug 16, 2020 00:09

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Pigbuster posted:

Makes me imagine a spell like Gell's Gravitas except it makes all nearby items fly into a guy.

Just turn Portal Projectile around and use it as a shield

# ? Aug 16, 2020 00:20

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

Is there anything besides force lance that does knock back?

# ? Aug 16, 2020 01:45

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

I might be misremembering this, but I think Shatter did cause knockback at one point. I can understand why there isn't a proper knockback spell, though. The ability to completely prevent monsters from approaching you or to push away ones that are already in melee range would be incredibly powerful in a game like this. You could exploit that to a silly degree.

# ? Aug 16, 2020 01:48

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 13:53

parthenocarpy: Dec 18, 2003

Worthleast posted:

Is there anything besides force lance that does knock back?

The current Iskenderun's Mystic Blast knocks players back two+ tiles. Centered on the player with two tile radius. This is a starting spell of conjurers.

L4 Cj/TLoc. Damages and knocks back each enemy within 2 tiles of the player. Can miss. Knocks back monsters at least 2 tiles, scaling up with power.

# ? Aug 16, 2020 04:48

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