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Mulva posted:He constantly acts childishly, his PoV is always smaller and lower than the Ascians in his flashbacks, he very clearly is played more vulnerable in the very end, and every single Ascian is a FFXII reference. In this case Zodiark is kept as a child to limit his power, and in this his heart is Elidibus, a child. And there's the whole "Went out of his way to save a child in over his head from the 13th". There's a lot of references that imply that yeah, he was probably a child. The degree to which that matters ten thousand years later and after being a Primal is up for grabs, but odds are we murdered a 10 year old. Ok but none of this explains why a child would be in a position of leadership
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Aug 17, 2020 21:28
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erenoyo posted:Ok but none of this explains why a child would be in a position of leadership We put Alphinaud into a postion of leadership. 
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Aug 17, 2020 21:33
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Aug 17, 2020 21:34
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erenoyo posted:Ok but none of this explains why a child would be in a position of leadership You don’t get it. The child no longer exists - he was used to create the primal. Elidibus is zodiark’s messenger. The child died 10,000 or whatever years ago.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:38
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I think it's less that we killed a baby and more "Elidibus has a fundamentally childish view of what a hero is." Note that his major buildup this patch was basically him speaking at length along the lines of "how dare you not allow my colleagues to murder you. you maniac. you absolute monster." Dude is everything we beat G'raha Tia upside the head until he stopped being.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:47
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Yeah, Elidibus isn't a leader any more than Levi is the leader of the Sahagin. They summoned him for a purpose, he has enough of a will that he got a big head about it, but the other Ascians we see don't ever seem to ever put him in high regard. There is like a total of one or two cutscenes where anyone listens to what he has to say, and those were years ago
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Aug 17, 2020 21:48
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homeless snail posted:Yeah, Elidibus isn't a leader any more than Levi is the leader of the Sahagin. They summoned him for a purpose, he has enough of a will that he got a big head about it, but the other Ascians we see don't ever seem to ever put him in high regard. There is like a total of one or two cutscenes where anyone listens to what he has to say, and those were years ago In fairness none of them listen to what any of them have to say.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:52
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erenoyo posted:Ok but none of this explains why a child would be in a position of leadership If the role of Elidibus is to resolve extremely contentious debates, then you could imagine a system where you appoint a prodigy at a young age, before they’ve formed significant biases or factionalism, and then train them as the ideal mediator. Then it’s just a question of luck whether they’re still young when their services get called on. The alternative hypothesis is that an Elidibus is only named at contentious times; that the plan was always to have the Elidibus position become the host of Zodiark; so the Amaurotines specifically recruited a child so as to make Zodiark more innocent in mindset. I don’t think there’s enough evidence to decide between the two options (and there might be others). I do feel like most people are fixating on the latter idea, but mostly driven by a desire to see the worst.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:55
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The job of Elidibus might have been mostly ceremonial before the cataclysm, too--Elidibus says that disagreements over the fate of the star were rare and fleeting before the final disagreement over Zodiark
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Aug 17, 2020 21:57
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Yeah, it was apparently so severe that Zodiark actually had a psychic fracture and had to eject his heart in primal form so that it could fulfill its sworn duty. What does that mean for Zodiark, anyway, now that it's a heartless angel? It would actually be funny if this means that: a) Zodiark is now mindless and completely harmless and can never escape or be freed, b) unless some idiot, some complete nutter, decides to uncork him and ride him around like a big purple Gundam. But who would be mad enough to ever do that?
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Aug 17, 2020 22:01
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Rand Brittain posted:What does that mean for Zodiark, anyway, now that it's a heartless angel? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69YakPKHMvs
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Aug 17, 2020 22:04
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Are there any missable lines that explain why Emet-Selch and Lahabrea escaped being sundered? If not, I hope that gets explored in a future patch. I've had the idea in my head of there being an additional unsundered who wasn't on the convocation and escaped notice by the ascians. Possibly someone on team Hydaelyn. If nothing else, it seems reasonably likely that Hydaelyn has a living ancient at her heart just like Zodiark.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:05
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What do you think we are
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Aug 17, 2020 22:05
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 This game knows me far too well.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:06
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Waffleman_ posted:What do you think we are very clearly a sundered being
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Aug 17, 2020 22:06
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Someone (probably Ryne_____) will summon Zodiark and try to make Crystal Mom / Minfilia the new heart
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Aug 17, 2020 22:07
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cheetah7071 posted:very clearly a sundered being We're a little less so now, though
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Aug 17, 2020 22:16
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Waffleman_ posted:What do you think we are We're not that.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:21
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cheetah7071 posted:If nothing else, it seems reasonably likely that Hydaelyn has a living ancient at her heart just like Zodiark. Didn't they say explicitly that Venat is that guy?
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Aug 17, 2020 22:21
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Rand Brittain posted:Didn't they say explicitly that Venat is that guy? Yes.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:22
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hobbesmaster posted:You don’t get it. The child no longer exists - he was used to create the primal. Elidibus is zodiark’s messenger. The child died 10,000 or whatever years ago. I know that but he was still at one point a child on the Convocation
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Aug 17, 2020 22:25
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erenoyo posted:I know that but he was still at one point a child on the Convocation The previous Elidibus left, theres nothing that indicates that he wasn't chosen specifically to become Zodiark.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:27
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Rand Brittain posted:Didn't they say explicitly that Venat is that guy? my memory of even one patch ago is shaky, I guess It's clearly possible to meet Venat, in the same way we met Elidibus, and I hope we do (and then kick his rear end too)
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Aug 17, 2020 22:31
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cheetah7071 posted:my memory of even one patch ago is shaky, I guess I think Venat is still within Hydaelen.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:39
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Dedekind posted:If the role of Elidibus is to resolve extremely contentious debates, then you could imagine a system where you appoint a prodigy at a young age, before they’ve formed significant biases or factionalism, and then train them as the ideal mediator. Then it’s just a question of luck whether they’re still young when their services get called on. I can't imagine this at all actually. it just makes the ancients sound like complete idiots and its a wonder their entire civilization didn't collapse on its own before a weird noise made them scream ghosts into reality
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Aug 17, 2020 23:23
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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah there's no way that an LB3 is worth 8 seconds of raidwide dps. It isn't but I found out when it was only a whm and brd left alive after a botched mechanic sub 1% with LB2 up. Very specific set of circumstances to make it maybe useful
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Aug 17, 2020 23:40
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Rand Brittain posted:Didn't they say explicitly that Venat is that guy? Apparently the French localization uses female pronouns for Venat since it's hard to write gender-neutral in French.
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Aug 17, 2020 23:41
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I kind of got the impression that they were in fact kind of stupid because their immortality and ridiculous magical prowess meant they didn't need to have much common sense or planning ability, so the first time something came along they couldn't ignore the whole thing exploded.
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Aug 17, 2020 23:44
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possible but man you really don't get a sense of that before the whole airbud-tier "hmm, nothing in the rulebook that says a 12 year old CAN'T be Emissary of the Convocation" stuff
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Aug 17, 2020 23:47
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it's just anime at its finest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGxCMyLm6js the elidibus is a child theory does sound possible from context, but what throws me off is that they continued to have him speak with a man's deep voice in his 'child' form. there is definitely something very childlike about him in his final moments, but i don't know if it's because the real elidibus was a child or if it's a reflection of his mental state. a friend did point out to me that the rest of the convocation deciding to go ahead with sacrificing a child to be the heart of zodiark is what caused Azem to resign in protest, and i like that piece of characterization even though it's just purely based on headcanon.
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Aug 17, 2020 23:48
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Rand Brittain posted:
Oh no our HP has been reduced to 1 
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Aug 17, 2020 23:49
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I have moved past the "Elidibus kid" reading and am charging full bore into "Elidibus is Obama" territory, it's very satisfying
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Aug 17, 2020 23:51
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I have moved past the "Elidibus kid" reading and am charging full bore into "Elidibus is Obama" territory, it's very satisfying Crossposting it because it's a golden post CharlieFoxtrot posted:The 5.3 villain weaponized hope and turned the people's earnest desire to do good, particularly the youth, into a twisted power base to feed dying impulses of decrepit old men who doomed the world
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Aug 17, 2020 23:55
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Eox posted:Crossposting it because it's a golden post At first I thought "hey that sounds a lot like Spira and Sin" and then I realized how much Spira reflects our own world. And then I got sad.
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Aug 17, 2020 23:58
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erenoyo posted:Ok but none of this explains why a child would be in a position of leadership Because the Ancients made poor decisions.
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Aug 18, 2020 00:07
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So who is Biden
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Aug 18, 2020 00:08
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Definitely Lahabrea.
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Aug 18, 2020 00:17
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Can't wait until Lahabrea comes back in 7.0
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Aug 18, 2020 00:19
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it does make this line a bit more ominous though
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Aug 18, 2020 00:21
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Fister Roboto posted:At first I thought "hey that sounds a lot like Spira and Sin" and then I realized how much Spira reflects our own world. And then I got sad. Wasn't the whole story of FFX a reference to Japan's political climate or something like that?
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Aug 18, 2020 00:22
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