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I'm not exactly sure how this plays into  rules since it's a clip of a particular scene (usually kosher) taken from a cam rip (probably not kosher), buthere's a more-or-less representative clip from Fate Heaven's Feel 3, in case anyone's on the fence the very start of this clip might be one of my favorite shots/shot transitions/musical cues in the entire history of animation, the way it smash cuts from the cross dropping to Shirou and Kirei's fists smashing into each other's faces with that loud rear end choir blaring in the background  e: like, ufotable has been doing some loving next level poo poo with these movies and they deserve a lot more recognition for it than they've been getting. these are legit up there with poo poo like Redline and I am bonkers-rear end excited for this movie to get a high-quality release; like, god drat, it looks good even in the worst quality humanly possible and i feel like that really says a lot WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Aug 17, 2020 |
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Aug 17, 2020 11:02
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I took my son, then aged 6, to see the live-action AtlA film in theaters. He was a huge fan of the TV series and begged me to take him. He watched the whole thing in silence. We got to the end of the movie. Credits rolled. He's still completely silent. We get up, we walk out. Still not a peep. We get to the car, and he finally speaks. "Daddy, that was a bad movie."
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Aug 17, 2020 19:38
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I’m so glad kid me was turned off by the theatrical trailer for it. To this day, all I’ve seen of it is the Blue Spirit scene.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:15
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:you know, "serious and grounded Mega Man" is one of those ideas that should be absolutely awful and hateful to all things good... We might as well just admit that “serious Megaman” is so fraught because Megaman itself is a weak concept with a bad design. Like, the specific reason Megaman looks as he does is because he’s a cutesy animatronic butler haphazardly modified for combat. You know what that looks like if we make it ‘live action, but not too ‘gritty’, etc.? It looks like the character Vision from Avengers 2: Age Of Ultron, but blue.
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Aug 18, 2020 00:28
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:We might as well just admit that “serious Megaman” is so fraught because Megaman itself is a weak concept with a bad design. ...er, you're aware of Astro Boy, right? Like, I feel like if you take the cutesy out of Mega Man, but don't replace it with absurdly grim nonsense, you just get the original Astro Boy manga. Which whips rear end. e: there's also solid odds it would end up looking like Alita, which was similarly a really drat good movie.
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Aug 18, 2020 02:12
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:you know, "serious and grounded Mega Man" is one of those ideas that should be absolutely awful and hateful to all things good... Isn't that kinda what hosed up the Jem movie? That is, the first draft of the script was reasonably faithful to the cartoon, but some overpaid butthole in a suit was like "make it more realistic"? BrianWilly posted:Mega Man X absolutely deserves a gritty interpretation but like...PG-13 gritty, not David Ayer gritty. If I remember correctly, the opening cutscenes in some of the X games mentioned things getting pretty dark and gritty for the meatbags who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Aug 18, 2020 03:06
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My wife and I are making our way through our rewatch of all the Disney animated movies and got to Dumbo. We're sort of of ranking as we go, and I generally don't think we're going to get something as bad as Dumbo. It's not as interesting a failure as The Black Cauldron and Chicken Little isn't racist. Also-- I forget his name is Jumbo, Jr. Dumbo is an insult from the bitchy elephants-- like he's dumb. And Dumbo can't speak. We've been calling a mute character Dumbo for eighty years. And made a remake of that movie last year. I just don't understand why that never hit me and it's kinda gross.
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Aug 18, 2020 03:12
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Dumbo is charming and I like it. The old one anyway.
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Aug 18, 2020 03:20
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Cockmaster posted:Isn't that kinda what hosed up the Jem movie? Reminds me to watch the final cut, since I saw a very rough workprint with missing FX. quote:If I remember correctly, the opening cutscenes in some of the X games mentioned things getting pretty dark and gritty for the meatbags who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Timeless Appeal posted:Also-- I forget his name is Jumbo, Jr. Dumbo is an insult from the bitchy elephants-- like he's dumb. And Dumbo can't speak. We've been calling a mute character Dumbo for eighty years. And made a remake of that movie last year. I just don't understand why that never hit me and it's kinda gross. I mean, it's not a great film but it is the film that saved Disney from financial ruin (and the cheapness of it no doubt helped). Part of me feels like there was just the faintest glimmer of something good in its story, with parallels between the working bodies building up the tent in pouring rain, Ms. Jumbo's incarceration, the heartfelt moment when the mother gets a fleeting touch of her son's childhood, etc. And then you have the racist crows which just backtracks all over that for some jive poo poo.
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Aug 18, 2020 03:51
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FilthyImp posted:Part of me feels like there was just the faintest glimmer of something good in its story, with parallels between the working bodies building up the tent in pouring rain, Ms. Jumbo's incarceration, the heartfelt moment when the mother gets a fleeting touch of her son's childhood, etc. quote:We work all day, we work all night I also don't mind the cheapness of it so much as the aesthetics beings a bit of a mess. Sometimes it resembles Pinocchio aesthetically, you get some proto-Mike Mine Music stuff with PInk Elephants, sometimes it resembles a silly symphonies short, but it also has stuff like the train that has this whole other look to it. It's a really messy film and just kind of a bore.
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Aug 18, 2020 04:04
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It's not like you can actually hear the roundabouts song. That's why people always have to post the lyrics, because no one ever heard them in the actual movie.
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Aug 18, 2020 04:05
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Pick posted:It's not like you can actually hear the roundabouts song. That's why people always have to post the lyrics, because no one ever heard them in the actual movie.
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Aug 18, 2020 04:14
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It's night, as a kid I never could tell they were black or what they were saying. e: I actually still can't hear it even trying to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P75mur1xF7U I think it matters more where they have content that's a little bit more... audible? I don't know why people always whip out Dumbo when Peter Pan is 100x worse and you can absolutely hear what's going on. Pick fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Aug 18, 2020 |
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Aug 18, 2020 04:22
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I mean they're both bad... My bigger issue with Dumbo is that it's kind of a bore. I think with "What Makes the Red Man Red?" it's a really bad part of a really good movie. With Dumbo, the most engaging part of the movie besides Pink Elephants involves a character named Jim Crow. There's just more race stuff in Dumbo and not a lot else that's actually good. But I dunno... experiences vary I guess. I was always bored by Dumbo as a kid so I don't think I was paying attention. But like they're clearly black and while the lyrics are hard to hear, I think the sentiment comes through enough to be skeeved out. My wife's reaction was "oh no." What's weird is that Pinocchio and Fantasia are actively pretty bawdy and sometimes scary movies. But Dumbo's the first movie we actively found offputting.* *I know we're getting a sanitized Fantasia.
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Aug 18, 2020 05:10
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Isn't the point of happy-hearted roustabouts that it's a very sarcastic song? Kind of pointing out that they are trapped in a lovely situation but putting on a farcical brave face?
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Aug 18, 2020 05:21
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Something, uh... 'impressive' about Peter Pan is that the racism is toned down (arguably) from the stage musical version.
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Aug 18, 2020 05:31
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Timeless Appeal posted:But I dunno... experiences vary I guess. I was always bored by Dumbo as a kid so I don't think I was paying attention. But like they're clearly black and while the lyrics are hard to hear, I think the sentiment comes through enough to be skeeved out. My wife's reaction was "oh no." Even then, I wasn't  enough to think "it's dark, who knows if those are black men working hard". Like Jesus Pick what a take.I think with Dumbo it's the supporting cast that does all the lifting while Dumbo just kind of Dopey's his way through things because he's a child. And though all the race related things are interesting, there's not much they can do with it when that's the hero.
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Aug 18, 2020 05:39
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BioEnchanted posted:Isn't the point of happy-hearted roustabouts that it's a very sarcastic song? Kind of pointing out that they are trapped in a lovely situation but putting on a farcical brave face?
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Aug 18, 2020 06:02
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I dislike Dumbo. It's my least favourite of the golden age 5 by a long shot. It's racist and all that, yeah, but also it's really boring, even though it barely clocks in past an hour total running time. There's a whole rear end musical number about a train? Like i don't know who Casey Junior is, nor do i care that he's back. Please stop singing about him. Timeless Appeal posted:My wife and I are making our way through our rewatch of all the Disney animated movies and got to Dumbo. I've been doing the same thing since last year! I'm actually nearly done, next up is Wreck-it Ralph. I can say without a doubt that the absolute worst movie of the 59 was Meet the Robinsons. Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Aug 18, 2020 |
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Aug 18, 2020 06:25
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:...er, you're aware of Astro Boy, right? Astro Boy is similar, but also a distinctly different situation. Going back to Megaman, the basic narrative is that the naive inventor fucks up and endangers the world, but his robot butler is so servile that he demands to become his creator's personal superhero and sets about trying to fix the problems. It's the story of a class truce where the slave and his owner unite against the 'totalitarian' threats generated by the owner. It practically satirizes itself: "The neverending battle continues until all destructive forces are defeated. Fight, Megaman! For everlasting peace!" But anyways, the key point is that Megaman is 'self-made': he requests that his inventor graft weapons onto him, in order to become a better servant. With Astro Boy, you have a much more nuanced and hosed-up situation where the inventor tries to create a bizarre 'angelic' fantasy version of his dead son. Then, he rejects this creation as a monstrosity and sells him to the circus, before Astro is adopted by a 'good' father who teaches him values. So Astro Boy is, ultimately, the story of a freakish monster who was built weird by a flawed creator but tries to do good. He's the kid robot from AI crossed with Dumbo, with bits of Superman.... Megaman's just the cover art for Brute by Fatima Al Qadiri. 
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Aug 18, 2020 06:52
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BioEnchanted posted:Isn't the point of happy-hearted roustabouts that it's a very sarcastic song? Kind of pointing out that they are trapped in a lovely situation but putting on a farcical brave face?
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Aug 18, 2020 07:12
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I would watch an animated version of Pluto, tbf
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Aug 18, 2020 09:01
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Astro Boy is similar, but also a distinctly different situation. two nitpicks. first off, I feel like you sort of forgot Dr. Wily existed. the problem isn't so much "naive inventor fucks up and endangers the world," as it is "naive inventor makes world-changing positive technological advances, but an asshat disgruntled employee decides to turn them into nukes and endanger the world because gently caress You Dr. Light." Dr. Light is essentially blameless, except that he somehow offended Wily badly enough to cause Wily to turn his inventions into WMDs (which, given the portrayal of Wily as an egotistical megalomaniac, doesn't necessarily require it to have been a legitimate offense). second off, what Rock and Roll were originally intended as has varied over time. "helper robot" was the original phrasing, indicating what you've said, but as the series has gone on and fleshed itself out more, it's become clear that Light views Rock and Roll as his surrogate children (a plot point taken directly from... drumroll... you guessed it, Astro Boy) rather than as butlers or slaves; the holograms he leaves for X in the MMX series further indicate this, as he essentially speaks to X in the manner of a dying father writing letters to the child he'll never meet. coincidentally, these are also probably the best two angles for genuine pathos in the premise, and the two things i'd expect a "grounded" take to be hammering the hardest on: the deteriorated relationship with Light and Wily and the possible reasons it could've gone south, and the juxtaposition of Light viewing Rock as his surrogate son with him sending Rock out as an attack dog. "Danny the Dog meets Alita meets The Social Network" isn't the worst elevator pitch a movie could have.
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Aug 18, 2020 09:05
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Boxman posted:Bad Box Art Megaman (and Pac-Man driving a mech) was a character in Street Fighter x Tekken and it was glorious I'm sorry to interrupt the conversation, but jeez louise does the way Pac-Man keeps smiling and staring in front of him with no variation whatsoever in his facial expression for 90% of the time comes across as creepy. e: I have also found something called Peter Pan Jr. (I think it's meant to be something that schools can turn into a show? For theater class and such?) that has changed the lyrics of the red man song in an effort to make it slightly less racist, but honestly, I feel like it's kind of works because you don't even have the "those were different times" excuse. I can't find when this was put out but surely it was after the movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UDeD3wNfGk paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Aug 18, 2020 |
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Aug 18, 2020 09:51
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:two nitpicks. The sadly short-lived Archie comics had a fun take on Wily; a bit more interesting than just a generic villain, but a brilliant egomaniac who deep down still is kind of friends with Dr Light, but seems to consider world domination to be the stakes of the game to prove which one is better. And that Wily's been explicitly banned from working on robotics (something Light basically helps him flout) because he has tendency to get completely over the top- one of his old projects for the military comes up and it's basically a doomsday war crime machine so dangerous and durable that it's still around in X's era and takes the whole Maverick Hunters team to bring down. They also have of course the Sonic crossover mostly notable for Wily and Eggman's villainous bromance. And interestingly, it inevitably breaks apart because Wily is actually a less monstrous villain than Eggman by a long shot, and he turns on him when Eggman tries to kill Dr Light just to stop Wily from getting distracted. Astro Boy has had some fun takes on Dr Tenma over the years, while Dr Oshida is usually more or less the same. Usually involves Tenma getting weirder and more fanatical while watching Astro Boy from a distance due to his unresolved issues, but on some level eventually realising how badly he treated Astro, and often putting aside whatever villainous plan that his personal ideology led him to not for its own problems but because Astro doesn't want him to do it. I know it's easy to write off cartoon villains as interchangeable and usually irrelevant to the narrative, but I think with video game villains in particular this is a bad idea, especially since they usually tend to get more characterisation than the vaguely heroic heroes and support characters do. Bowser set a bit of a precedent here, the villain is often the coolest part of the game. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Aug 18, 2020 |
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Aug 18, 2020 10:14
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Since we're on the topic of Mega Man, it's important to post the official ranking of all the Mega Man robots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zum81Rwa2fw
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Aug 18, 2020 11:24
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Also, there's the whole deal with Blues, aka Protoman, the estranged older brother who's what happens when you build a substitute son who's also a super fighting robot prototype with major design flaws. At least one version actually has him be flawed because Dr Light tried to install a buggy version of the Three Laws, while the abovementioned comic has Dr Light get frustrated with Blues' initial independence and developing in ways he doesn't understand (probably not a coincidence that Blues presents as a teenager while Rock and Roll are children) and talk to himself about potentially installing limiters on Blues' behaviour- he talks himself out of it, but Blues overheard and ran away without hearing the last part. The Protomen has an interesting take on this as well. I think it's Mega Man 9 that has an interesting plot where Wily recruits eight Robot Masters as ageing models who are scheduled to be scrapped but don't wanna.
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Aug 18, 2020 13:15
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The games have plots? First I’m hearing of it.
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Aug 18, 2020 13:50
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FilthyImp posted:Yep. By the PSx era games it's "cities decimated by rogue robots that humans keep building for some dumb reason, then a sky-city 9-11's, then a Space Colony 9-11's the earth and ruins the biosphere." One of the weirder bits of Megaman storytelling is how central humanity's role in the plot is (like the aforementioned space colony 9/11, and also how the human city in Mega Man Z is very important) but we literally never even see a human after Light and Doppler, who stops showing up by the time of X4. I guess Weil...sort of counts? Maybe? EDIT: The core games barely have plots, the X series has something resembling a plot that wraps up at X6 (the series lumbered on after, but going from X6 to MMZ makes the most sense), and Z and ZX both have actual decent plotlines. Z, in particular, tells a coherent story. With completely insane names. Might I interest you in Childre Inarabitta of the Eight Gentle Judges? And obviously Battle Network, Star Force, and Legends all tell coherent stories, but those are pretty far removed from Mega Man gameplay. Boxman fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Aug 18, 2020 |
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Aug 18, 2020 13:51
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Well this is in the 80s and 90s when most of the plot is in the manual, because a single paragraph blurb means cutting a boss fight or two. Also there's some tie-in stuff involving elements like environmental collapse (which might be why Wood Man's stage has cybernetic trees and robot animals) and implications that humanity's rapidly become very dependent on robots.
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Aug 18, 2020 13:51
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Mega Man Battle Network isn't fiction anymore.
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Aug 18, 2020 15:04
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The problem with adapting serious Mega Man is that you quickly run into the fact that Mega Man is not only undisguisedly derivative of a dozen other properties, but is specifically a playful take on them. Even the "darker" series like X and Zero have all the gravity of a scary episode of the 90s X-men cartoon.
Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Aug 18, 2020 |
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Aug 18, 2020 15:04
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Timeless Appeal posted:I dunno... between the comments about them being uneducated and wasting their money along with being five years off from Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah, it's kind of hard to get a good read on it for me. Right after the lyric you posted, they sing When Other Folks Have Gone to Bed We Slave Until We're Almost Dead Which reinforces the ironic nature of the song, but not any less than the footage of the men being intercut with the majestic elephant performing the same tasks, getting off the same train etc. You will also notice they are working at night in the thunder and rain, which really obviously draws home that this is terrible hard ruthless work. And more to the point, people will talk forever about the crows and this song but fail to pick up on the fact that Dumbo is African and born into slavery. They put his mother in a cage! Later, right before the "creation myth" portion of the pink elephants sequence, we see a camel elephant hybrid walking amongst the pyramids as if to really reestablish, elephants are not from here. Someone stole them. His entire story is about suffering against a cruel, degrading environment and ultimately transcending it. You can argue if the moral is really an effective solution to his problems, but you shouldn't ignore what the film is actually depicting.
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Aug 18, 2020 16:27
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I feel like even if I was making an ironic song, I wouldn't put in such directly self-insulting lyrics like "We never learned to read or write", even if it was true, and especially not "We don't know when we get our pay, and when we do we blow our pay away"
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Aug 18, 2020 16:46
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Schwarzwald posted:The problem with adapting serious Mega Man is that you quickly run into the fact that Mega Man is not only undisguisedly derivative of a dozen other properties, but is specifically a playful take on them. Even the "darker" series like X and Zero have all the gravity of a scary episode of the 90s X-men cartoon. Exactly, this strongly reeks of "screw fans of the source material, lightheartedness is for babies" horseshit. Has there ever been a case of a more-or-less lighthearted work being re-imagined as dark and gritty, with the remake turning out to be the least bit respectable? The best I can come up with is Batman (who's been made to work pretty much equally well on both sides of the spectrum, but that's been going on since before most of us were born).
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Aug 18, 2020 17:06
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A grounded Mega Man is Pluto
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Aug 18, 2020 18:22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=Bz8l935Bv0Y&feature=emb_title So Hades (Supergiant) dropped their trailer for the switch, and this is Studio Grackle's first animation project, I think we'll see some more cool stuff from them in the future based on this.
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Aug 18, 2020 18:38
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paradoxGentleman posted:I feel like even if I was making an ironic song, I wouldn't put in such directly self-insulting lyrics like "We never learned to read or write", even if it was true, and especially not "We don't know when we get our pay, and when we do we blow our pay away" The song isn't the point of view of an individual, it's a dramatic telling of the circumstances of these characters' lives. They're like actors singing that to the audience because it's important that we know how poorly everyone involved in the circus is treated, and how hard they work. "We don't know when we get our pay, and when we do we blow our pay away" is a literal description of their circumstances, and a pretty neat summation of ways free blacks continued to be exploited in a post "reconstruction" south.
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Aug 18, 2020 18:41
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paradoxGentleman posted:I feel like even if I was making an ironic song, I wouldn't put in such directly self-insulting lyrics like "We never learned to read or write", even if it was true, and especially not "We don't know when we get our pay, and when we do we blow our pay away" The racism of Song of the South is more insidious because Uncle Remus is like the crows an actual character and he's not necessarily bafoonish. But the film exists with a more idealogical current that there is something inherently subservient and animal like about Blacks. It's fair to say that "Happy Roundabout Workers" isn't doing the same whitewashing of slavery and sharecropping as "Zip-a-Dee Doo Dah" does. There is an acknowledgement of the workers as doing hard work, but the context of the song also acknowledges a sort of hopelessness for them.They cannot read or write. They waste all their money. They only want to sleep and eat. On top of that, they're being depicted similarly to the golem like henchman from Pinocchio.
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Aug 18, 2020 18:52
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Timeless Appeal posted:Yeah... I feel like the defense is also removing historical context. The racism of Song of the South isn't the same as the racism of the Crows or "What Made the Red Man Red?" The latter is reducing a race to buffoons and playing up stereotypes for laughs. The Crows in many ways are pretty benign on first glance because they're proactive and clever characters. The offensiveness in them exists in their intent as minstrel characters. I think it's fair to say that it exists in a continuum of really racist stuff, by a lot of the same people and the same studio, but that the intent of these two films is very different. It is difficult to imagine what the intent of song of the south is, being a white adaptation of afro-american folklore, but i havent actually seen it. Dumbo seems sympathetic yet ignorant, And I think the whole of the production, the rain and the music and the imagery, is trying to "hammer" the point home, the circus, this thing you 1942s man take for granted, is built on misery. Yes, they waste all their money because that's how exploitive institutions of labor work, they pay little and if they themselves establish a store or trade they would likely upcharge liqour and food. The pitching of a circus tent bears a striking resemblance to the construction of a railroad, where labor conditions were as bad as any time else, and exploited immigrant, native and black american labor. Though Dumbo is born on a happy choo choo train, the train and railroad are in this and later scenes firmly depicted as oppressive machines, the cars literal cages. A couple camels are there, bringing to mind biblical "pyramid" schemes, And the hoisting of the tent is like raising the sails of a ship in a storm. I get the sense maybe it's "happy" in the eyes of the child dumbo but it's pretty unambiguously tragic by the end. So basically, yes they are depicted as hopeless but in a realist depiction that might reach the heart of a kid better than some lie would, but I think they're far from golems. Or else golems are people too. E: It's also like, an ironic counterpoint to singing mining dwarves FunkyAl fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Aug 18, 2020 |
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Aug 18, 2020 19:46
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