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Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


I agree with it too, I think Amni’s insistence only to immediately about-face feels weird, why make the original statements to then immediately renege on them?

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tpink
Feb 18, 2013

Melman
Like...let's all try and follow this thought process here:

Amnistar posted:

Also, in case it's unclear, because I know people are gonna make comments about being unclear in opinions:

I think Sci is scum and I caught them in a deliberate scumslip, so I'm not moving my vote until it is clear they are not an option.
I think Hambeet is scum, would vote for them.

I think Rarity might be scum, but it's a weak read right now.



I think Bif is town.


That is my reads right now.


Amnistar posted:

I'll freely admit it's not a read I expect anyone else to buy into. I'm not expecting to convince people Sci is scum based on that. I am refusing to let Sci get away with what I see as a gloat post.

Rarity posted:

Because once you explained it I realised you were being really dumb and I thought I might be able talk you out of it

Amnistar posted:

At this point I don't think you can because then sci gets to be doubly smug after the game if i am right.

Amnistar posted:

Me too. It's super easy for scum to say "town on town slapfight".

##vote SandNavyGuy

???

tpink
Feb 18, 2013

Melman
And as I already said, I don't think that original post was a scumslip anyway, but Amni was all in on it nonetheless - despite many people saying "hey this is silly" - and then he moves the vote after that big production anyway. What was the point of all that?

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.
Its almost like you don't read my post...that is actually how bad SNG's post was to me.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Amnistar posted:

Me too. It's super easy for scum to say "town on town slapfight".

##vote SandNavyGuy

This post??

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015

Ya know, this is going to look like an omgus, but uh, if the only defense you have to the flip flop is that my one post I put out so everyone could see where I’m coming from is bad because it’s a bunch of words that ended where I didn’t pick a scum to vote, then let me fix it for you.

## vote Amistar

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Sandwolf posted:

This post??

No, the one a bit latter where scientastic asked me the same thing.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

sandnavyguy posted:

Ya know, this is going to look like an omgus, but uh, if the only defense you have to the flip flop is that my one post I put out so everyone could see where I’m coming from is bad because it’s a bunch of words that ended where I didn’t pick a scum to vote, then let me fix it for you.

## vote Amistar

Naw, you called 2 different big fights "townie slap fights" and gave no scum reads. Considering your entry into the thread had also set off warning bells, I am happy with this vote.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015

Amnistar posted:

Naw, you called 2 different big fights "townie slap fights" and gave no scum reads. Considering your entry into the thread had also set off warning bells, I am happy with this vote.

Which, for context, my entry during jokephase twilight was me saying, “wow, a bunch of people posted!” Followed by you saying it was an excuse to lurk, followed by me posting a ton. Yes. How prescient you were.

Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.
It’s DGK

##vote DGK

Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.
That’s a good-rear end vote btw, people would be wise to join in on it.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Asphyxious posted:

That’s a good-rear end vote btw, people would be wise to join in on it.

I'd say it's a B-

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


hambeet posted:

Wow. I’ve quite clearly said I disagree with your initial jab, and then also the way you’ve tried to portray me when I’ve engaged with you about it.

Actually, can we please take this up after the game because you’re patronising shtick has gone into meta territory.

Sure, we can if you want but maybe it won't be necessary. After sleeping on it I see an exchange like this:

Me: "Can you tell me precisely what you even actually mean when you say 'you disagree with my initial jab'?" (provides a few examples of how even just this one sentence can be read in a few different ways)

You: "Wow. I've clearly said [repeats exact phrase I specifically asked you to clarify]"

And think, wow we must just have some really serious gaps in how we communicate, that end up driving us nuts in Mafia where attempts to clear them up can't be trusted at face value. I really haven't meant to patronise you, but I can see how it would very easily sound and feel like that when I start trying to pick everything apart so much until I can locate and pin down the exact cause of where you could be misunderstanding me. And when I drop that kind of sendoff.

For what it's worth, yesterday didn't get me really upset at all, just increasingly frustrated. And I thought, man if this had been back in the oldschool Auspol days, this woulda been where I start just browbeating everyone with a naked emotional plea to get you lunched no matter what. My suggestion for changing up your playstyle wasn't only meant as a put-down of your playstyle in this game. (I won't try to deny that element was there though :v: ) I remember you saying recently that you do like to try and change things up sometimes, and I really do think it might be an interesting experiment. It'd certainly throw off the thing that always gets you on my scumdar, at least. But yeah, talking about this kinda thing is more awkward when a game's still on so I'll try and save it till then next time.

I've had a nice streak of a couple really fun chill games lately, at least by my standards, where I can still get all in scum's face but it hasn't got personal at all. I want to keep that up, and I'm sorry I started reaching for more meta topics there which made it more personal.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
Bif, what do you think of this Sci/Amni thing?

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4

Bifauxnen posted:

This is kinda rich when I've been trying to make a couple serious posts in between here and you're still not replying!!

yeah yeah sorry, I missed it in my rush to shitpost

Bifauxnen posted:

Anyway, E+ have you got any response to my thoughts on binus beyond "meh I just don't wanna babble about meta ideas"?

You tried to downplay my vote by saying it was just about "third vote scum", you really don't have any reaction at all to when I explained further?

I just didn't feel like discussing it; I didn't want to get into it because it was honestly just me wanting to go off about dumb poo poo, not explicitly tied to your vote. I didn't really think when I posted it, which means I didn't really have any thoughts it was based on and it wasn't really swaying my opinion one way or another.

also I'm back from my appointment and have a work break and I'll be clawing through the thread for info now

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Rarity posted:

Bif, what do you think of this Sci/Amni thing?

Lol let me catch up, I saw that Beet reply as like the first post after I went to sleep

But where I'm at rn is I've felt good strong townie participation vibes from Sci. While Amni I can always see as scum, cause even when he starts sounding the same, I remember he could still be the Dragonlord.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Bifauxnen posted:

Lol let me catch up, I saw that Beet reply as like the first post after I went to sleep

Please see the bit where the discover the Magic of Friendship

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Bifauxnen posted:

Lol let me catch up, I saw that Beet reply as like the first post after I went to sleep

But where I'm at rn is I've felt good strong townie participation vibes from Sci. While Amni I can always see as scum, cause even when he starts sounding the same, I remember he could still be the Dragonlord.

At least it is my arguably best game as scum shooting me in the foot...

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4

Amnistar posted:

In ythe hambeet v Bif debate, bif looks good, hambeet looks bad.

disagreement box! I'm loathe to side with hambeet but it feels to me like bif just wanted to brawl about something. maybe it's scum building a fake case, maybe it's town just tunneling

thankfully I'm not loathe to disagree with amnistar because of this:

Amnistar posted:

Also, in case it's unclear, because I know people are gonna make comments about being unclear in opinions:

I think Sci is scum and I caught them in a deliberate scumslip, so I'm not moving my vote until it is clear they are not an option.

I can see from votefinder this has already changed but my god

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Epsilon Plus posted:

disagreement box! I'm loathe to side with hambeet but it feels to me like bif just wanted to brawl about something. maybe it's scum building a fake case, maybe it's town just tunneling

thankfully I'm not loathe to disagree with amnistar because of this:


I can see from votefinder this has already changed but my god

I love posts like this, that don't *actually* call me scum, just make a big deal out of my play.

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

Asphyxious posted:

It’s DGK

##vote DGK

I could see this, tbh.

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4

Scientastic posted:

That's very silly. The scum motivation for Amni to tunnel me is pretty clear, the town motivation is paper thin. My motivation in calling it out is to show other players that there is a scum motivation to Amni's actions, because so far there seem to be plenty of people who agree that his tunneling thing is dumb, but none who seem to understand why it would be a benefit as a scum play.

Rarity posted:

I'm not saying it wouldn't benefit scum to make that play, I'm saying I don't believe Amni's got the scum game to make what is a pretty high level play. I don't think most players do cause it's a very out-there move and anyone looking on would assume this is dumb town. That's why you trying to push it looks suss to me.

Amni may not have the scum game, but what about his teammates?

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Scientastic posted:

OK, Amnistar. His posting can be broadly divided into three parts that I think all have a scummy motivation... I started this based on a gut feeling, and as I looked into his posts in more detail, there is a trend that I see in here that backs that feeling up.

This is some really strong casework and I like it a lot.

##vote Amnistar

The whiteknighting-me bit I'm always especially wary of. I often feel like just when things seem the most blindingly obvious to me, people frustratingly still don't get me so only scum who do know the truth for sure are the most likely to come forward and back me up.

Amni, has Sci actually done that kind of smug breadcrumb gotcha before in the past or something? Cause I find it hard to imagine anyone doing this ever.

Rarity posted:

Ok weirdly I feel like Sci is scummy for trying to make a huge deal out of Amni's dumb tunnelling than I do for a single thing that Amni's said

I disagree, and in the follow-up posts I think Sci's explanations continue to sound sincere and rational.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Epsilon Plus posted:

Amni may not have the scum game, but what about his teammates?

Bifauxnen posted:

I disagree, and in the follow-up posts I think Sci's explanations continue to sound sincere and rational.

If it helps I'm coming round on the Sci/Amni joint scum team theory :v:

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4

Amnistar posted:

I love posts like this, that don't *actually* call me scum, just make a big deal out of my play.

that's because I'm not actually ready to call you scum, because I didn't think you were scum until we got to here:

Amnistar posted:

Your case is, I create a conspiracy about you, True, to deflect from acum hunting, False.

I made a brief case on SnG and dropped it, True.

I am diverting attention away from ??? And instead trying to make people focus on hambeet who I ha e called scum, but this is somehow no scum hunting.

I'm glad you decided to case me because it's a bad case and now maybe other people will vote for you.

amnistar literally refers to their own case as a "conspiracy", mentions a brief case on SNG and then immediately says they're dropping it, then follows up with this:

Amnistar posted:

Me too. It's super easy for scum to say "town on town slapfight".

##vote SandNavyGuy

this is scum doing a hard pivot based on what their teammates are saying in scumchat, you've gone from big effortposts to welping in a limp-dick vote

just so we're clear, this is the post where I actually call you scum: Amnistar Is Scum ##vote Amnistar

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.
EP+ looks the worst of the people jumping on me here I think.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Epsilon Plus posted:

this is scum doing a hard pivot based on what their teammates are saying in scumchat, you've gone from big effortposts to welping in a limp-dick vote

just so we're clear, this is the post where I actually call you scum: Amnistar Is Scum ##vote Amnistar

Also, EP+ has clearly never been scum with me.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Epsilon Plus posted:

amnistar literally refers to their own case as a "conspiracy"

I agree with most of your points but he clearly means that Sci is referring to his case as a conspiracy

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


SNG's posts do sound scummy though...but he hasn't said "performative" twenty more times overnight so that's way way below his average when I last saw his scum game. I'll keep considering him, but first:

Toalpaz posted:

Bif would you read BIRB for me?

SCI what do you think of BIRB?

BIRB is not diamond dogs aligned.

He's a pretty null read so far, but on the slightly scummier half of my Lumpenlist since I do wonder why his most recent serious-seeming vote is on Rarity. I didn't like it.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Rarity posted:

I agree with most of your points but he clearly means that Sci is referring to his case as a conspiracy

Naw, I was acknowledging that at that point I was committing to something insane but I was also committed because if I ended up being right and sci didn't get killed it would be a double smug.

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

Amnistar posted:

EP+ looks the worst of the people jumping on me here I think.

You think crabman looks worse than any of these?

Rarity posted:

I agree that that Amni/Sci interaction was super loving weird

tpink posted:

The whole swing from "Sci scumslipped and I'm not backing off it!!" to this is odd.

Sandwolf posted:

I agree with it too, I think Amni’s insistence only to immediately about-face feels weird, why make the original statements to then immediately renege on them?

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Epsilon Plus posted:

amnistar literally refers to their own case as a "conspiracy", mentions a brief case on SNG and then immediately says they're dropping it, then follows up with this:

I just want to say, this is a super skimming the thread read of what is happening. It completely ignores anything else that is happening between these posts and a presents them as if they are back to back with nothing happening in the game to warrent them.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Amnistar posted:

Naw, I was acknowledging that at that point I was committing to something insane but I was also committed because if I ended up being right and sci didn't get killed it would be a double smug.

Godammit, are you trying to get me to vote for you?

Wait, I figured it out, Amni's a scum lynchbomb :v:

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Mr. Humalong posted:

You think crabman looks worse than any of these?

I understand the motivation of those statements. EP+ feels the need to grand stand with their vote. If they'd just said something like that and then dropped a vote it wouldn't have been anything. The fact that EP+ feels the need to justify things and over-explain what other people are already saying is why I think EP+ is scum.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Rarity posted:

Godammit, are you trying to get me to vote for you?

Wait, I figured it out, Amni's a scum lynchbomb :v:

No, I'm just not going to lie about the fact that I called myself out for double-downing on the sci vote because I'd rather be wrong voting for sci then be right and let sci get away with it.

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4

Amnistar posted:

EP+ looks the worst of the people jumping on me here I think.

good job telling people what to think to fit your narrative instead of building a case based on my posts regarding the topic

I Refuse To Move My Vote From Amnistar Until Something Changes My Mind, So Strong Is My Blessed Town Conviction

Amnistar posted:

I just want to say, this is a super skimming the thread read of what is happening. It completely ignores anything else that is happening between these posts and a presents them as if they are back to back with nothing happening in the game to warrent them.

oh hey here's you actually thinking for a minute about things; I didn't mention every single post up to this point because they weren't of particular interest to me. either I think they're unimportant, or someone else has already addressed what I would say on the topic and I don't feel like me-tooing it.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Epsilon Plus posted:

good job telling people what to think to fit your narrative instead of building a case based on my posts regarding the topic

I Refuse To Move My Vote From Amnistar Until Something Changes My Mind, So Strong Is My Blessed Town Conviction


oh hey here's you actually thinking for a minute about things; I didn't mention every single post up to this point because they weren't of particular interest to me. either I think they're unimportant, or someone else has already addressed what I would say on the topic and I don't feel like me-tooing it.

Yea, like the bit where SandNavyGuy comes back to the thread and does clearly scummy things that make revisiting reads on them something that would happen...definately not relevant as it doesn't fit your narrative that I just switched over to SNG for no reason.

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4

Amnistar posted:

I understand the motivation of those statements. EP+ feels the need to grand stand with their vote. If they'd just said something like that and then dropped a vote it wouldn't have been anything. The fact that EP+ feels the need to justify things and over-explain what other people are already saying is why I think EP+ is scum.

Myne Moste Townne Postte is me having a laugh and also poking fun at you. the rest of it is me making a case, something that I know you're at least conceptually familiar with

Amnistar posted:

Yea, like the bit where SandNavyGuy comes back to the thread and does clearly scummy things that make revisiting reads on them something that would happen...definately not relevant as it doesn't fit your narrative that I just switched over to SNG for no reason.

"clearly scummy" to you isn't universally scummy to everyone. I think SNG is just an awkward poster. I have reread the posts in question, including feeding them through scumhunter.py, and they're 94.29% (+/- 1.23 points of scumhunter error) town. Posting "I think SNG is town" doesn't do much to move the game forward, because we don't vote for towniest poster, we vote for the scummiest one.

(that's you btw, u are the scummiest poster, Kyng Towne sayethe soe)

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.
Naw, you needed to distance yourself so you didn't come across as "me too" and look like you were hiding your vote/motives with everyone else.

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Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.
Also, that may be the most annoying thing to read...politely requesting you drop the old english spelling because that's just painful ><

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