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HopperUK posted:I am a white English woman of Irish descent. Calling your father Daddy is completely usual in Irish families and would not raise an eyebrow. I have never called my siblings brother or sister though. While not a Southerner myself, I understand that down there it's not unusual to call your father "Daddy." And my brother and myself never use "brother," "bro," or any variation thereof to address each other.
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# ? Aug 14, 2020 23:33 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 15:08 |
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Selachian posted:While not a Southerner myself, I understand that down there it's not unusual to call your father "Daddy." It's VERY unusual if you're an adult man. Women, girls, and young boys it's not unusual. Adult men? Yeah you're definitely going to get weird looks about calling your father 'daddy'. Me and my brothers all called each other 'brother' in some form, so that didn't really bother me.
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# ? Aug 15, 2020 00:01 |
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wizzardstaff posted:My degree (for all the good it's done me) is in linguistics and my favorite topic was conversational principles. Basically there's a model that says everyone who is "cooperating" in a conversation is earnestly attempting to engage with their partners by providing sentences which have an appropriate topic, relevance, detail, politeness, etc. Flouting these maxims can be its own form of communication (for example, to be humorous or to make a rhetorical point) but it mostly sounds weird. So when a character makes an "as we all know..." infodump it's violating one of those principles. Hey's that's interesting! I bet you write awesome dialogue. wizzardstaff posted:I have been generally trying to avoid spoilers for the later trilogy but I couldn't help myself on this and I am actually kind of excited by that concept. Yes, the concept is very exciting. The execution - as with everything else - is rather lacking. TheGreatEvilKing posted:I feel like going back to The Lord of the Rings is the stock answer here, because unlike most modern fantasy The Lord of the Rings is about something and pulls from actual good mythology. Despite Tolkien claiming to hate allegory and blah blah blah there's a lot more going on than "man journeys with wizard, fights the supernatural". Sauron is a 20th-century authoritarian reinterpreted as an enemy of the heroes of the Old Norse sagas. The Ring is symbolic of they power of tyranny - at its weakest, it lets the bearer do whatever they want with no repercussions for their actions like Plato's Ring of Gyges, and at its most powerful wielded by Sauron it can command and enslave others (much like Wagner's Ring which is its own bundle of symbolism). Sanderson's big themes that he explores over and over again in most of his books are religion and redemption. These are fundamental to both Stormlight Archive and Mistborn, and for me, he does it rather well. Is your main critique of his writing that you are not a fan of his prose and his tendency to use modern terms? Sanderson made very deliberate choices in that regard (he's said in his YouTube lectures that he prefers Orwellian "window glass" prose over stained glass windows): Brandon Sanderson posted:Questioner Anyway, if that's what you like, then I'd suggest you look at Janny Wurtz. She writes beautiful "stained glass" style prose. Another author I'd suggest is Helen Lowe - Wall of Night is her debut series and she's currently working on the last book - note that because it is a debut series there's some pretty cringe-y TheGreatEvilKing posted:Much of Sanderson's dialog comes across as modern people being dropped into a fantasy world and given wacky superpowers. Tolkien goes out of his way to use archaic dialogue to show that these are not modern people - for the most part, they do not think as we do, they don't act as we necessarily would, and they value things a modern reader would not (despising technology, valuing bloodlines and nobility, etc). Lift is divisive even amongst hardcore Sanderson fans; I can't stand her (and all the "awesomeness"), even after reading Edgedancer, though maybe my view will change once I finish Rhythm of War. Lift aside, you've picked lines from Celeborn and Galadriel versus Kaladin and Syl (or someone from Bridge Four) - the former are wise leaders of their world who are thousands of years old and the latter is an unusually well educated soldier (but still waaaaaaaaaay beneath the former) and his magical child-like non-human companion. By definition, the dialogue is not going to be on the same level in terms of sophistication of the prose, turn of phrase or vocabulary. A Shallan-Jasnah dialogue is probably a fairer candidate for comparison, but it's still not really fair since it's a master-apprentice conversation between a world-renowned scholar and her ward, and neither have even a hundredth of the elves' lived experience: quote:"There is a secret you must learn, child," Jasnah said. "A secret that is even more important than those relating to Shadesmar and spren. Power is an illusion of perception." I think the differing views comes down to the reason we read fantasy - I read it primarily for escapism (when I'm completely braindead from a stressful Selachian posted:While not a Southerner myself, I understand that down there it's not unusual to call your father "Daddy." Kchama posted:It's VERY unusual if you're an adult man. Women, girls, and young boys it's not unusual. Adult men? Yeah you're definitely going to get weird looks about calling your father 'daddy'. Perhaps the true idiot here is me; it did not occur to me that Green was trying to write a Southern accent because Port Entril is...in the southern part of the Empire. The "Daddy" thing (especially from two grown men) was not enough to get me there, though perhaps I should have realized when both Mirra and her father refer to her mother as "Momma".
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# ? Aug 16, 2020 15:04 |
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We're now in the first chapter that kicks off the main plot and it's 6218 words long. Here's what Grammarly had to say:quote:CHAPTER SIX 299 words to fail at two things in this banal exchange: establish the capitol city of Gan Garee and further develop Hat and Lorand as characters. All I know is Gan Garee is "big" and Hat seems like he might be a closeted incel. quote:The immense wall clearly surrounded an area that wasn't open to the general public, the presence of sword and spear and armor-clad guardsmen reinforcing that observation. Lorand slowly approached one pair that were already staring at him and Hat, but when he reached them he didn't quite know what to say. In a world where virtually everyone has elemental magic, these guardsmen are carrying swords and spears. WHY? I don't believe we see this ever again - from Book 4 onwards, guardsmen fight in link groups of like aspects (five per group). quote:"We're—we're supposed to test," Hat stumbled in explanation, now sounding as uncertain as Lorand felt. "Can you tell us where we're supposed to go?" Can you guys believe that we're going to have to read this drivel four more times? Yeah, that's right. These ticket stubs are so important that Green writes this exact thing in Chapters 7, 8, 9 and 10. quote:'You go to the main building right behind this gate," the guardsman told them, drawling the words in a way that said he'd repeated them any number of times before. "Use the entrance second from the right, and turn in these tickets when you're told to. They'll let you know what to do next." If you're guessing that we'll have to see this same song and dance again WITH IN THE SAME CHAPTER, you'd be right. quote:And then the two guardsmen were stepping out of their way, giving them clear access to the gate. Lorand felt the strangest urge to wipe his sweating palms on his tunic, but he couldn't stand the thought of doing it in front of the guardsmen. There was already a definite gleam of amusement in the dismissive glances he and Hat had been getting, as if the guardsmen knew these two bumpkins had no chance to pass the tests. Well, Lorand did have a chance, and he meant to make the most of it. Hat still stood unmoving beside him, so he took a better grip on his case and resolutely moved through the gate . . . The only time Green bothers to spend on description of the setting and she chooses this. I mean, I don't need her to spend five pages on describing the city like some other authors, but it would be nice to get three vivid sentences so I can use my own imagination to fill in the gaps. Right now I'm trying to use my imagination to paint the whole damned canvas. quote:"Look at all the people coming in," Hat murmured from his left, obviously having stopped when he did. "They're using all those other gates, but only a few are heading toward the entrance we were told to use." This does not turn out to be even mildly relevant to the plot whatsoever. quote:It was strange that Lorand had actually missed noticing the people, but Hat's mentioning them brought sight and awareness of them. There were dozens of people moving in and out of the immense building, men and women alike. Those coming out moved briskly in a businesslike way, as did some of those going in. Most of the others, though . . . Most of the others seemed like himself and Hat, nervous, unsure, hesitant, maybe even frightened. And most of them were alone, which made Lorand grateful for Hat's presence. Green will never get any better at description. Crowds of people are only ever described as "men and women", their approximate number and their emotional state. quote:"No sense in just standing here," Lorand said after taking a deep breath. "It's already past noon, and we'll have to find someplace to stay before it gets dark. Let's go tell them we're here and find out when the testing will start, and then we can go looking for a place to live until it's our turn." Please, no. We're going to have to watch Lorand and Hat door knock at every inn and hostel to ask if there are rooms available. Just kidding. This is here to characterize Lorand as the responsible one who looks after Hat. But I bet I got you there for a second, didn't I? Also I want you to remember that Lorand said the words "No sense in just standing here." quote:"Which won't be too long after our silver runs out," Hat agreed sourly, joining him in walking toward the building. "I don't know why official doings have to take so long to happen, but they always do. Remember the five-year-old tests?" Have a flashback in the middle of this conversation that will be made redundant by Lorand's next line of dialogue: quote:It had been a long time ago, but Lorand did remember. Every child in every district went to registration at the age of five, when they were enrolled in school and given their first tests. Lorand could also remember his father muttering about fool wastes of time, the elder Coll hating the need to allow anyone else access to his children. And allowing them a say over those children. Camil Coll would have kept his children illiterate if the law hadn't refused to let him do it, but Lorand hadn't known that at the time. Remember back in Chapter 1 how it was confusing Lorand's dad had such a yokel accent and Lorand had none? Instead of working to build characters Green just reverts to stupid stereotypes. Like HopperUK pointed out, it makes no sense because according to this flashback, Camil Coll would have had to go to school too. quote:"I'll never forget how long it took for them to get around to me at the five-year-old testing," Lorand answered ruefully. "It was so long that I forgot all about what my father had said about not showing off. I really wanted everyone to know what I could do, but if I'd remembered the orders I'd been given . . . Do you think that's why they made us wait so long? So we'd forget what we'd been told?" This is a dumb theory. quote:"Since my father didn't tell me anything but to do my best, I doubt it," Hat answered distractedly, his gaze on the entrance they meant to use. "They were just acting true to form, and showing everyone how important they were by keeping us waiting. What do you think these tests will be like?" ...you're seriously telling me that you guys were cooped up in a coach for an unspecified amount of time (but based on the other chapters, likely to be at least a week or more since you are coming from basically the western edge of the Empire) and you guys did not spend the majority of the time speculating on this fairly important point? quote:"I . . . don't know." Lorand hesitated before answering the question they'd both been careful to avoid all during the trip. "And I'd rather not even think about it. Master Lugal said we have to be ready for anything and everything, and you can't do that if you decide something has to be a certain way—" Idiot. There's a middle ground between deluding yourself into knowing what the test will be and not preparing at all. "Failing to plan is planning to fail" and all that. And it's not like this is some mystery pop quiz either! It's a test for High practitioner of your aspect! You should be able to extrapolate the kinds of things that they would ask you do to. Encouraging crops has been mentioned twice so far, working with animals once and we saw Lorand put out a fireball by moving around a lot of dirt. I'd say these are all pretty good bets as to what the test will be about! For the record, this is a pet hate of mine. I've worked in post graduate education for the last five years and it continues to astound me that grown rear end adults will do the same thing as college and high school kids - i.e. try to guess what's in the exam and cram for that by relying on rote memorization, instead of just studying properly in the first place and doing some actual learning. quote:"Well, I am ready, and I'll bet I know what they're going to do," Hat interrupted as if he hadn't heard what Lorand had said. "I know what they'll do and I can handle it easy, so I don't have to worry about passing. I will pass, and after it's all over I'll be a High." It's your own fault for avoiding the topic during your journey. Just saying. quote:Lorand was disturbed as they reached the archway they'd been told to use, but once he stepped through it was awe that suddenly filled him. The area inside was nothing less than vast, the ceiling so far above their heads that it was difficult to see. People walked as quietly as possible inside that vastness, and those who spoke to one another whispered. Every ten feet or so a torch burned in an ornamental sconce on the walls, but the torches did little beyond making the inner dimness a bit less intense. All the way down at the other end of the building it was possible to see some daylight through other arches, but that also did nothing to brighten the place. It's remarkable how many words Green uses to describe things so vaguely. What do you guys make of: "archway", "awe", "vast", "ceiling so far above...it was difficult to see", "quiet", "whispered", "torch burned", "other end", "some daylight", "arches" - inside the "most utilitarian gray building"? Also I watched this Shadiversity video on torches the other week and now I can't ever read about torches used inside ever again without thinking : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsBNHbWGdbY quote:"Coach tickets, please," a brisk voice said, and Lorand took his attention from the vastness to look at the man who sat behind a small table just a few feet inside the entrance. The man was dressed in the sort of wide-sleeved shirt Master Lugal usually wore, and he hadn't spoken in a whisper. But the silence around them seemed to soak up the sound of the words so that no one more than five feet away would hear them. Lorand moved closer to the table and produced his ticket stub again, and he and Hat handed the stubs over together. Here's part two of this fascinating stuff about ticket stubs, paperwork and dog tags. We will need to read this crap another four times as well. quote:"Of course we understand!" Hat snapped before Lorand could answer a bit more civilly. "We may not come from this city, but we're not complete idiots." Another poor attempt at characterizing Lorand as the reasonable peacemaker. One reason why Green's writing sucks is because she prioritizes everything in the wrong order: she relies first on internal monologue, then dialogue, then action and description is basically an afterthought. Better authors tend to reveal character through action first, then description and dialogue, followed by internal monologue. quote:"All right, here are your tags," the man finally said after another few minutes, pushing them toward Lorand and Hat. Once their names had been put on the tags, the man had attached a wide loop of fine chain to an eye in the middle top of the tags. Those loops would fit over their heads, and the tags would hang in the middle of their chests. I have not googled this, but I'm guessing swipe cards were invented after these were published? I thought the general concept of IDs would have been prevalent enough that I don't need TWO SENTENCES explaining what an ID looks like. quote:"Thank you," Lorand said with as much warmth as he could muster, taking the tag with his name on it. "Can you give us any idea of how long it will be before the first test? We know we're not the only ones here for the purpose, but even a guess would help us to—" Green has wasted 2247 words so far, rambling about coach ticket stubs, paperwork and IDs. You'd think we'd be done, but oh no, we're not done, not by a long shot. quote:Lorand took his set of papers woodenly, shocked to hear that the testing would begin so soon. But it wasn't his expression that the man behind the table was watching. The man's faint smile was a reaction to the way Hat had paled, as well as to the visible unsteadiness of Hat's hands as he took his own sheaf of papers. The sudden appearance of another man, from a group of three in the dimness to the right rather than out of thin air, caught Lorand's attention, but Hat had to be nudged with an elbow before he could gather himself together well enough to follow the newcomer. You should not use the phrase "out of thin air" in a story where people have magical powers. Book 8 spoilers yes teleportation becomes a power that the main cast can use at the end of the second series. quote:Their guide led the way across the vastness of the building without looking back, and Lorand had to deliberately keep himself from running to keep up. Lengthening his stride did the job well enough, not to mention keeping him from looking like a scatterbrained fool. He still felt shaken at the idea that the testing would start so soon, but he refused to lose himself to mindless fright. I see Vallant isn't the only drama king in this crew. Look Lorand, it'd be fair for Hat to not feel particularly chatty right before he's supposed to do a big exam that has the potential to be life altering when it's just been sprung on him - especially if you've been lifelong friends going to school together because you should have seen this multiple times each year at school. Cut Hat a little slack here, will you? quote:At the brisk pace their guide Jamrin set, they crossed the wide stone floor rather quickly. Lorand wouldn't have been surprised if they'd been taken to one of the flights of steps that led higher in that gray stone building, but instead they were guided to one of the far archways leading outside again. Jamrin went down the two steps at the same brisk pace and headed across another stone walkway, which meant Lorand had no chance to stop and stare at the five buildings which stood in a circle beyond the building they'd just left. The five buildings were each rather large in their own right, but not as incredibly big as the one which guarded the approach to them. So much time spent trying to describe a place we will never see again. At least, I don't think we do. This place is so forgettable that I can't remember. quote:"That's where you go," he said, negligently throwing a thumb over his shoulder toward the building. "They'll tell you what to do next once you're inside. Now you can give me my tip." Green continually tries to shove random attempts at characterization in between important plot moments and doesn't seem to be aware that it's possible to develop characters while moving the plot forward - and that in fact those moments would be better for characterization! quote:And now that Lorand had the time to notice, he could see that the building was made of oak resin rather than stone. The resin could only be extracted from trees by the concerted efforts of three talents, Earth, Water, and Spirit. It came out in a semi-liquid state, and hardened so slowly that it was possible to shape almost anything out of it before it reached its final solidified state. Lorand had never seen an entire building made out of resin, but he'd heard they were popular in areas which had regular earthquakes. Even solidified, the resin had a slight rubbery resilience which would let a building move with an earthquake rather than fall. But that left the question of why they had one—no, five—such buildings here in Gan Garee. This is actually a kind of important world building point. Resin has special properties in this world and we will see resin buildings again and again throughout the first series. quote:But Lorand had no time to consider a question like that, not when he'd reached the doorway leading into the creamy-white building. Hat was already inside, standing in front of another table with another man behind it, so Lorand joined him. The entrance area was fairly large and completely unfurnished except for the table and the chair the man sat in, but the lamps on the walls turned the area warm and friendly. The cream-colored resin was responsible for that, of course, being a good deal more cheerful than even light gray stone. Green's used the word "another" twice in one sentence here. Maybe she's getting just as bored of this as we are. quote:"All right, Hattial," the man behind the desk said, looking up from the sheaf of papers Hat had given him. "Everything is in order including Lugal's final evaluation, so we'll get right to the testing. Go through that doorway all the way to your left, and you'll be taken care of." This sounds like it's probably a shower curtain from IKEA. quote:"Let's wish each other good luck now," Lorand began as he looked back toward Hat. "We may not get the chance later, so—" Remember this moment. From everything we've seen on screen of Hat and Lorand's friendship, it's a pretty shallow one though we're supposed to take that they're best friends. Either people don't know how to be friends in Widdertown or Lorand just doesn't actually have any real friends. quote:"It often goes like that," Lorand heard once Hat had disappeared through the curtain. It was the man behind the table speaking, so Lorand turned back and handed over his set of papers as the man continued, "The ones with the smallest chance are often the ones who want it the most, and by the time they get here they can't see anyone or anything but those wants and wishes. He has every ounce of himself invested in what he's about to face, so don't think too unkindly of him." Oh, oh, here we go! It's our first instance of blatant moralizing! What an exciting thing to find in my fantasy novel, which I primarily read for the purpose of escapism! I'm so ready to be lectured at by minor characters espousing some pet view of the author's! quote:Lorand nodded his thanks, but was suddenly aware of an uneasy feeling that wasn't for himself. Hat had been sent to the left, and the man behind the table seemed to know Master Lugal's opinion of Hat's chances. Were they going to put Hat through something that he couldn't possibly hope to handle? Maybe if he followed after he could do something to protect Hat . . . Now I'm wondering how many instances of academic misconduct Lorand and Hat both committed individually and together while they were at school. There's universities in this world so I assume academic misconduct is a thing. quote:Lorand took a deep breath and nodded, thanked the man, then walked to the doorway to the right. There was nothing left he could do for Hat, and he did have his own test ahead of him. But somehow the brightness of the curtain over the doorway had lost some of its warmth and welcome. Yes, we will also get see the rest of the protagonists on their intriguing journeys through the different buildings, hallways and rooms of the testing facility. Four more times. quote:"Leave your case out here and go inside, then sit on the stool," the man who had been in the lead said, gesturing to the closed door. "You'll be given further directions in just a few minutes." We are 4076 words or about two thirds of the way into the chapter and we're finally about to see some plot relevant action. Most authors would have just skipped over all this filler with a sentence or two along the lines of: "A week after leaving Widdertown, the coach dumped Lorand and Hat at a nondescript tightly guarded facility on the outskirts of Gan Garee, where they were separated by their handlers after several rounds of paper shuffling. He prayed to the Highest Aspect that both of them would pass, despite Master Lugal's reservations about Hat. Conscious of his handler's gaze, Lorand wiped his palms on his travel stained tunic and pushed open the door to his testing room." quote:"That's right, you can't get out again unless we let you out," Lorand heard, but from somewhere above. He looked up to see that a large square panel high in the wall had been opened, and the man he'd followed looked out of it. And now that he'd noticed the one square, he could see the others, smaller and still closed, which completely circled the room well above his head. Did anyone else hear this an unwritten "nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah" school yard taunt to this? By the way this is supposed to be a government official. quote:"This is the first of your tests, but it can also turn out to be the last," the man continued, sounding as if he spoke a prepared speech. "It doesn't matter whether or not you want to pass, you have to pass if you intend to continue living-Failure in this test means death, so you'd better keep that in mind during the next few minutes. Good luck or goodbye." Green is such a master of building tension. We've gone straight from incredible boredom to immediate peril. Wait, I still don't care because Lorand still hasn't done anything as a character to make me like him, so we're still at incredible boredom. quote:All thoughts of protest died when the smaller square windows opened all around, and soil began to pour through them. Lorand was already on his feet, and reflex sent his head down and his arms up to keep the cascading earth away from his face. His last glimpse said they meant to drop tons of earth on him, enough to bury him alive. But they also hadn't told him what to do, what way they expected him to save himself! You have Earth magic, you can move this dirt around however you like! Did you expect them to hand you an instruction manual? quote:And that was when the chills hit, despite the dust and closeness generated by the falling soil. How Lorand avoided dying was for him to figure out, there on the spot, in the middle of the cascading earth. It had already begun to pile up on the floor, showing how little time it would take to fill the room completely. He would be dead long before that happened, of course, buried under the first tons of earth to rise above his six-feet-plus worth of height. Yet another awkward reminder that Lorand is six-foot-plus of hot blond muscular farmer. Because I care so much at this point. quote:Lorand had never been so frightened in his entire life, but when he began to cough and choke on the dust rising into the air he also began to get angry. He wanted to be there and show what he could do, but no one had stopped to find that out. They'd simply assumed he had to be forced into trying his best, and had put his life at risk to accomplish that. They were ignorant fools and would-be murderers, and he'd show them the error of their ways if it was the last thing he did! Are you literally just standing there? AFTER your earlier remark about there not being any sense in just standing in one place? quote:And that was when he reached for the power, finding it leaping to join with him even more eagerly than it usually did. He used it first to cause the earth to fall around rather than on him, at the same time clearing the dust from the air he breathed. That gave him a place to stand and think in peace, at least for a handful of minutes. After that he'd start to run out of time, but he hadn't yet reached that point. He still had time to think of something . . . You WERE literally just standing there. A mystery fireball comes at you and you react instantly, but massive amounts of dirt are obviously a different ballgame. quote:He sent a searching gaze all around the room, looking for something, anything that would help to save him, and he almost missed it. With all that earth pouring out of the walls it was hard to see anything clearly, but he finally noticed that the large panel his guide had opened and spoken from wasn't joining the others in pouring dirt on him. Beyond the stream of earth he could just see that it remained closed and quiet, and even more importantly didn't have mounds of earth piled in front of it. The door he'd come in by did, and trying to clear it would have been futile even if he could have opened it. It was possible to do many things using Earth magic, but making earth go against its nature and not mound wasn't something that would work for long. You can almost hear the lightbulb switching on. quote:So that left the large panel as Lorand's only chance for escape. The biggest problem with that, however, was the panel's location, a good six feet above Lorand's head. The falling earth had already mounded knee-deep around Lorand and got deeper by the minute, but it wasn't deep enough—or firm enough—to stand on to reach that panel. Oh wait, no, not yet. Lorand still wants to just stand there some more. quote:Lorand automatically pushed his clear space out a little farther as he looked around again, wasting no strength or effort on keeping his feet and legs free. When he thought of something to do he'd free himself, but right now he needed to figure out how to get a lot higher. If only there was something to climb on! The short stool was useless, of course, not to mention being half buried already. There had to be something—! How about now? quote:And then the obvious answer came to Lorand with a groan. The panel was the only way out of that room, and the only way to reach it was to climb something. The only thing available to climb was the falling earth, which he'd be able to fashion into a flight of stairs. It was just about certain he was meant to use the earth to fashion a stairway, but the solution wasn't as easy to do as it was to say. Magic had all the limitations of the element of its affinity, and earth was notoriously stubborn about not allowing the impossible. The throwaway line about "limitations of the element of its affinity" has never mattered and will never matter. quote:Like stacking it up to make a stairway, for instance. Even a temporary stairway had to be properly and firmly based, otherwise the whole construction would come tumbling down at the worst possible minute. Even a ramp would need a usable angle, one that could be climbed in some way that wasn't straight up. That room wasn't big enough to allow the construction of a decent ramp so it would have to be stairs after all, but that brought up one very important question: was there enough earth to build a usable stairway with? Yes, let's have a discussion about basic engineering principles during a life or death situation. quote:Lorand looked up at the earth pouring out of the panels and groaned again. It was already deep enough in the room that his knees were covered, but that didn't mean there was enough earth to construct a stairway almost twelve feet high. His base would have to be the entire width of the room, otherwise he'd run out of tread space before he reached the necessary height. Or run out of building material. I am trying to picture this as a scene from a movie and all I can see is a tall, blond dude standing in the middle of a dirt shower and groaning repeatedly. It is the most boring scene ever. quote:Lorand cursed under his breath, suddenly realizing what he would have to do but not knowing if he could. He'd have to begin to build his stairway with the earth already available, and then would have to hold it together until enough new earth fell through to continue and complete the job. It would be one of the hardest things he'd ever done, requiring as it did that he split his attention and ability. While knowing that if he faltered, it would all come crashing down to bury him . . . Right, no problem at all. I do not understand how this is actually any different to how he formed the whirlwind of dirt to smother the fireball. quote:A small stream of falling earth hit Lorand in the face, showing him the direct way that he'd let his attention wander. He wiped away the dirt even as he reestablished full control, realizing it was a good thing the lapse in attention had happened. It had been a mild lesson in what would happen if he let his attention wander again, when he would pay for the distraction with more than a dirty face. He knew what had to be done, so he'd better get started doing it. He is still just standing there. quote:Another minute of thought before beginning brought Lorand a small revelation. If he made his stairway only wide enough to hold his foot, he'd need less earth to make it which would in turn take less time. He'd been picturing fairly wide treads, but those weren't necessary. He only needed enough width for stability, and a base as wide as possible would help with that. Now to get down to it. . . This is the most boring minute of all time. And also, it took you a minute to think of that? Guess Lorand didn't win the jackpot in the brains department. *checks how long he's just been standing there* yep, confirmed. quote:"Me and my big mouth," Lorand muttered after many long minutes of sweat-filled effort. Getting "down" to it had proven to be the first of his problems, since the earth that had already fallen was neither properly placed nor solidly packed. Lorand had to move the soil away from where he meant to construct his base, hold it back while placing his building material properly, then begin the first treads. He also had to keep the newly falling earth from damaging his stairway, while at the same time keep it off his face so that he could see. Not to mention breathe, which was becoming harder rather than easier. It's been six paragraphs since Lorand made a big hoo hah about how you can't make earth do things against its elemental nature. But if I understand his plan correctly, he is going to escape by packing the falling dirt into a staircase just wide enough for him to stand on to reach the window at the top of the room. How exactly does dirt NOT want to get packed together tightly? You understand that this is literally how rocks are made, right? I would have thought that you've already made dirt act against its nature when you CAUSED IT TO FLY AROUND IN A WHIRLWIND when you don't have Air magic. quote:By the time Lorand had half a dozen steps built, the stairway was better than five feet high, all the available earth had been used, and he himself had turned to mud because of the sweat pouring out of him. The magic flowed into him just as strongly as it ever had, but his handling of it wasn't the same. The more tired he became the harder it was to control the magic, and suddenly a new worry added itself to the rest: would he continue to be able to stay merged with his magic? We've spent more paragraphs on Lorand standing there, wondering how to save himself, than we have on watching him actually struggle to save himself. I'm sorry Green, but I don't buy that he's having a hard time here. Well, I guess if he's got low intelligence, that is a pretty big combat penalty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MTKcRgoSQQ&t=216s (if you've never seen Tripod vs the Dragon and you like musical comedy about D&D, you should watch this) quote:A spurt of falling earth broke through the shield he had over himself, adding itself to the mud already smeared on his face. Important point about how magical talents work just buried (heh) in here. Shields will be used by multiple characters throughout the series. quote:Lorand wiped at it with the back of his hand, making the mess worse rather than better, wishing he could be impatient with himself over the brief lapse. But what he felt now was more fear than impatience, since every childhood horror story he'd ever heard was suddenly coming back to him. All those warnings against trying to do more with the power than you were naturally able to . . . How naughty children who didn't listen turned themselves into mindless vegetables that people had to put down like the poor, maimed animals they were . . . Are you ready for another pointless flashback??? quote:If Lorand had had the strength he would have shuddered, knowing as he did that all those stories hadn't been exaggerations on the part of adults trying to keep their children manageable. He could still remember that little girl at school, when he'd been nine or ten and she'd been about the same. Her talent had been Water magic, she'd been incredibly strong for her age, and the indulgence of her parents had made her more arrogant than anyone should have been allowed to be. This is a really ham-fisted attempt at building on your theme, Green. quote:Lorand carefully filtered more of the dust out of the air around him, needing to take a deep breath without tiny pieces of grit filling his mouth and lungs. That little girl had ignored the words of caution from their teachers, and had constantly searched for new ways to show how good she was. When spring came that year with its thunderstorms, the little girl had been delighted. She decided to gentle a thunderstorm the way Middle practitioners sometimes did, not realizing it took more than one Middle and more than Water magic. Lorand could still see her quietly slipping out of the schoolroom with a triumphant smile on her face . . . Just randomly dropping in the fact that Lorand can filter particles out of the air, something that I would have thought was an Air magic thing. quote:Her screams had brought everyone running outside, but by then it was already too late for the girl. Afterward their teachers had explained that she'd summoned enough power to handle the thunderstorm, but hadn't herself been able to handle that much power. It had filled her beyond bursting, raging through her when her control slipped. The teachers had quickly herded the other children back inside the school building, but not before Lorand had seen the girl. Just like how saying something was "frightening" doesn't make it feel frightening, saying something was "horrible" doesn't make it feel horrible. Green has a real talent for draining the emotion out of a scene. quote:Lorand did shudder then, and then another spurt of earth into his face brought him a frightening awareness. The soil was now coming faster and harder out of the openings, almost as if it meant to batter down his stairway along with himself. Now it would be more difficult to shield everything, not to mention harder to slow the rain of earth in order to work with it. "I have no idea what to do here to keep up the suspense so uh, I'll just keep on pointing out that more dirt is falling down on Lorand." quote:Lorand felt the aching weariness in both his body and his mind, at the same time becoming too aware of the increasing strength of his magic. He would need that much strength and more to do what had to be done, but would he be able to handle it? A sickening picture of that little girl's face rose up before him, bringing with it a terrible chill. He'd have to find a way to handle the magic, but what if he failed and ended up the same way? How was he supposed to do what was necessary with that hanging over him? How . ..? "I've got it - I'll just end the chapter right here!" Summary: Since we've now actually kicked off the main story, I'll begin making a note of what day it is in the timeline from here on. As we're not given dates or anything concrete, I'm just going to arbitrarily start counting from Day 1. Day 1 Lorand and Hat arrived in Gan Garee (still no clue what the city is like). They get shiny IDs but do not part on good terms. The test involves escaping live burial and Lorand ends the chapter still stuck in the testing room with dirt falling on him (turns out Lorand is not so smart). Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 8 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 3 COACH RIDES: 4 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 7 "CLIFFHANGERS": 3 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 6 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 1 Possible fixes: While my version of Chapter 1 stuck pretty close to Green's original sequence of events. From Chapter 2, I made more changes:
Edit: typos Leng fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Aug 17, 2020 |
# ? Aug 17, 2020 14:31 |
Leng posted:Sanderson's big themes that he explores over and over again in most of his books are religion and redemption. These are fundamental to both Stormlight Archive and Mistborn, and for me, he does it rather well. Is your main critique of his writing that you are not a fan of his prose and his tendency to use modern terms? Sanderson made very deliberate choices in that regard (he's said in his YouTube lectures that he prefers Orwellian "window glass" prose over stained glass windows): Redemption I'll grant is present, but honestly Sanderson's treatment of religion is weird to me because there's very little faith involved. The only character I can describe as actually faithful is the priest from Elantris whose faith convinces him to side against the evil monk invasion but people who actually engage with their religion instead of spouting platitudes about how you have to fake worship the evil brother god are rare. It's doubly weird because all the magic systems are supposed to be the power of a splintered god that is invested in people, yet people granted the ability to perform actual miracles is just reduced to what is basically experimentation with anti-gravity technology like it's Star Trek. The Orwellian prose works for what Orwell is trying to do - provide a slice of life into a horrible regime directly derived from modernity and convey how the regime dulls the human mind and the world around it. 1984 posted:Inside the flat a fruity voice was reading out a list of figures which had something to do with the production of pig iron. The voice came from an oblong metal plaque like a dulled mirror which formed part of the surface of the right-hand wall. Winston turned a switch and the voice sank somewhat, though the words were still distinguishable. The instrument (the telescreen, it was called) could be dimmed, but there was no way of shutting it off completely. He moved over to the window: a smallish, frail figure, the meagerness of his body merely emphasized by the blue overalls which were the uniform of the Party The lack of emotion is the point - the telescreen is dull and unremarkable because the best the Party can provide is unremarkable. The dulled mirror comparison works because it's mundane - much like Winston's life - and because trying to provide some elegant comparison would completely defeat the point of portraying that this is a terrible apartment provided by the Party doing the bare minimum. There's even some great symbolism where we link Winston's smallness and frailness to the uniform of the Party. It works because Orwell makes the events stand on their own and because the characters in 1984 don't really have the intellectual training to start conjuring Shakespeare like John the Savage. Anyway, watching the video, I can see what Sanderson is saying, that if you poo poo up your story with inept metaphors you're just going to confuse and distract the reader, but I don't think his prose is nearly as stained glass as he thinks it is. Tolkien got his prose compared to the Bible a lot, and I think that kind of mythic writing works a lot better for providing a window pane than the kind of bloated prose you'll see Jordan or Sanderson use. The Silmarillion posted:Great was the triumph of Morgoth, and his design was accomplished in a manner after his own heart; for Men took the lives of Men, and betrayed the Eldar, and fear and hatred were aroused among those that should have been united against him. The King James Bible posted:And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. Before anyone accuses me of dragging religion into this, Herman Melville among others was inspired by the Bible. Leng posted:Anyway, if that's what you like, then I'd suggest you look at Janny Wurtz. She writes beautiful "stained glass" style prose. Another author I'd suggest is Helen Lowe - Wall of Night is her debut series and she's currently working on the last book - note that because it is a debut series there's some pretty cringe-y I'll give Wurtz a shot, to Amazon! Leng posted:I think the differing views comes down to the reason we read fantasy - I read it primarily for escapism (when I'm completely braindead from a stressful Honestly I think fantasy designed to be read as braindead escapism is part of the problem in general here. This isn't a shot at you - God knows I've read enough blah fantasy Kindle books on planes - but when we ask "how is Sharon Green published despite being so bad" I think a large part of it is that this book is designed to be skimmed while braindead rather than actively read. That's why we have five different fireball scenes, so that when you're checked out you will remember "fireball bad" and why there are so many forgettable characters and whatnot. It's why when you break these down it doesn't feel like an adventure with perils, magical wonders, and creatures of myth and legend, but like formulaic shovelware designed to appeal to nerds. The swords and spears of the guardsmen are there to assure the readers that this is a fantasy novel and because half the target audience is picturing D&D city guards anyway. The characters are barebones stereotypes because if you dip into Jovvi's section for a few lines you can go "oh, a magic hooker" and keep skimming to the parts where she presumably blows up a dude or gets nekkid or whatever. This is why Sharon Green is worth 3 million dollars despite writing crap like this. This is also why any kind of consistent characterization or ideas gets stripped right out of these books. Lorand's father's MO screams "guy raising kids to do crime" or some kind of indocrination, but I suspect we have to get through more melodramatic testing scenes first and that will never be brought up again. Lorand is a hardened battle mage who can fight assassination attempts in one scene but is completely unprepared for the potentially lethal test when he is literally in his element. All this said, I hope I'm not just crapping in the thread here, I do enjoy vitrol.
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# ? Aug 18, 2020 01:32 |
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Redemption I'll grant is present, but honestly Sanderson's treatment of religion is weird to me because there's very little faith involved. The only character I can describe as actually faithful is the priest from Elantris whose faith convinces him to side against the evil monk invasion but people who actually engage with their religion instead of spouting platitudes about how you have to fake worship the evil brother god are rare. It's doubly weird because all the magic systems are supposed to be the power of a splintered god that is invested in people, yet people granted the ability to perform actual miracles is just reduced to what is basically experimentation with anti-gravity technology like it's Star Trek. Hrathen is awesome indeed. Sazed is another good example - his entire arc in Hero of Ages is about religion requiring faith. Spoilers for those who haven't read the third Mistborn book: Brandon Sanderson in Hero of Ages posted:For some reason, he had assumed that the truth would be different. The scholarly side of him argued with his desire for belief. How could he believe in something so filled with mythological clichés? In terms of his Cosmere works, there's "gods" (e.g. any Vessel who holds the power of a Shard of Adonalsium, who are sometimes worshipped as gods - see Ruin and Preservation on Scadrial in the Mistborn books and Honor in Stormlight Archive) but there's also a notion of a greater "God Beyond" (discussed most prominently I think in Mistborn: Secret History, Alloy of Law and the short story Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell) which Sanderson has said he will never definitively answer: Arcanum posted:Questioner I find that pretty admirable and respectful of him as an author. TheGreatEvilKing posted:All this said, I hope I'm not just crapping in the thread here, I do enjoy vitrol. All good! A thread is not a thread without discussion, and this has been interesting discussion for me. I like looking at things from different perspectives. Let me know how you find Wurtz!
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# ? Aug 20, 2020 13:03 |
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quote:CHAPTER SEVEN Hi Lorand (and Hat)! This will be the only time that we see any character look at Lorand without thinking he's hot. quote:The single man leaving the coach to Jovvi's left was dressed in the height of fashion, and his annoyed movements and sullen frown directed toward the coach he'd just left told her he was probably newly arrived and therefore would be just as useless for her purposes. Hi Clarion! This will also be the only time that a female character will consider him useless. quote:She needed someone who could tell her which neighborhood to rent her house in, something she intended to see to before getting around to that testing. That way she'd be all ready to begin her new life as soon as she failed that tiresome test. Jovvi, the brilliant wantrepreneur, has only one idea of how to do market research and doesn't bother to do any of it before arriving in Gan Garee. She's had at least a one week journey by coach (judging by Clarion and Vallant's estimates) which is plenty of opportunity for a woman with supposedly amazing social skills to chat up any traveler or hospitality staff she happens to encounter and glean a ton of information. Is she a closeted antisocial introvert? In which case, being a courtesan AND talented in Spirit magic would suck. It'd be better to have Air magic so you could literally block out the sound and sight of other people (Book 8 spoilers: eventually Jovvi does get to use Air magic). quote:"Just step this way, ma'am," the coach guard said to her gently and carefully, gesturing toward the closest entrance through the wall. "Hark and me'll carry your trunk that far, and then the gate guards'll get somebody to take over." Wow. Laying in on a bit thick with the "safe and comfortable", aren't you Jovvi? Male goons, please tell me that you would not actually fall for this kind of line. She's not even trying. Also, witness Jovvi's sophisticated questioning and conversational skills in action! She's been very particular about the kind of neighborhood she needs but all she comes up with is "nicer"? Why yes, Jovvi, there's a lot of places in a capitol city where there are houses for rent that would all arguably be "nicer" than some industrial complex. I doubt most of them are what you have in mind. quote:The wistfulness Jovvi put into the question nearly melted the man where he stood, but he still found it possible to shake his head regretfully. I'm trying to picture how she plans for the next conversation to go: "I asked my coachman where I could find nice houses to rent and he had no idea. You look like a nice person, can you help me?" quote:Feeling considerably brightened by that thought, Jovvi followed the two men with her trunk to the opening in the wall, where the guardsmen who stood the post were already studying her. In point of fact they'd had their eyes on her since she'd left the coach, and their attitudes were perfectly plain. She'd seen the same on every man who had come to the residence and then had discovered her, which hopefully meant that the residences there in Gan Garee weren't stuffed full of courtesans of her caliber. When the gentlemen of this city found out she'd taken up residence here, she would hopefully have more gold than she could easily count. Jovvi knows that people can find more than one person physically attractive at the same time, right? Just because you have men leering at you doesn't actually mean that you are the hottest person in the city; it actually means that you're the hottest one in their immediate line of sight. Which (assuming everyone here is straight, isn't saying much) since the only competition right now is Lorand, Hat and Clarion. And none of those three noticed you - not even the closeted incel, so... quote:"This lady's here for the testin'," the coach guard told the gate guards as soon as they were all close enough. "This here's her trunk, and you'll need to call somebody to carry it for her." As if the bloat in this book isn't bad enough, Green is now spending dialogue lines describing what happens to Jovvi's luggage. This is relevant because...oh wait, it's not because Jovvi sewed all of her gold into tiny pockets in her travelling clothes. She could lose her entire trunk and it wouldn't matter, except then we'd have to spend a chapter following Jovvi around while she goes clothes shopping, which is something I have no interest in reading. Anyway, spoilers for the next Jovvi chapter and another chapter later in this book: her trunk will not be lost and we still have to read about Jovvi going for a dress fitting. Green is the worst. quote:The coach guard and driver did as they'd been told, then took an awkward minute saying goodbye and wishing her luck. Jovvi was as gracious to the two as she made a habit of being to all men, since a girl never knew which of them would turn out to be most significant in her life. In Jovvi's previous viewpoint chapter, she made a point about how it never paid to make enemies when it was possible to make friends instead. Now she's just reducing that from all people to just men. quote:When they finally went back to their coach Jovvi turned her attention to the gate guards, but before she could speak one of them held out his hand. This is the stupidest way of verifying someone's identity. Only people of Middle strength or higher are supposed to go in right? Why wouldn't you just put a Guild member at the gates and dispense with this stupid coach ticket business? quote:The request surprised Jovvi, but not so far that it completely disrupted her plans. She reached into her bag for the stub which was all there was left of her ticket, and tremulously smiled as she handed it over. Foreshadowing! Though I guess it probably doesn't count since we already know how it's gonna go from Lorand's POV. Also, I thought Jovvi was going to ask some more about houses, or how to register. Technically at this point, she's got no reason to assume that she's going straight into the test. This is another stupid plothole - Lorand has an excuse for not knowing any more details, since he probably got told by Master Lugal to tell his dad he needs to leave the farm, was disowned and then attacked by a fireball while Master Lugal was running late, and then had to bolt for the coach before it left without him. In Jovvi's case, she still had to wait for the coach to arrive after the fireball attack. The Guild man was one of her clients, so she would have had a pretty good pre-existing relationship with him (even if she can't remember his name), plus the benefit of literally being a damsel in distress. If you are a deft, socially savvy manipulator, that would have been the perfect time to gather some intel! He's a Guild dude who sends people off for this testing every year - whatever you can get out of him is going to be vastly more informative that Nameless Gate Guard #1 over here. quote:"I wish I could help you," the guardsman said quite sincerely, apparently caught in the depth of her eyes. "If I knew what they did in there I'd tell you all about it, but all I know is what I tell every applicant: use the archway directly behind this post to enter the building, and then hand over this stub. They'll let you know what to do next. I'm really sorry." It's things like this that make me think Green doesn't actually have any clue how to describe an attractive person in specific terms. She simply just describes them as "really quite attractive" and leaves it at that EVERY SINGLE TIME. quote:and although it was unlikely he'd ever be able to afford to become one of her regular patrons, there was no sense in hurting him. He would have helped her if he could have, after all. His inability simply meant she'd have to find someone else. Jovvi be walking around rating everyone's net worth and disposable income as their key stats. If this were a first person camera view game from Jovvi's perspective, we'd have a HUD where there's dollar signs floating over every NPC's head. quote:The second gate guard hadn't said a word, but he stepped aside just as quickly as the first when Jovvi moved toward the gate and through it. She could see the archway she was supposed to use to enter the very large building straight ahead, as well as other people heading for that building. Most of the others seemed rather hesitant about approaching, and although Jovvi could understand that, she didn't share the emotion. She wanted this registering business over and done with, and then she'd be able to get on with what was really important. I want your chapter over and done with too. quote:The archway took her from afternoon sunshine into lamplit dimness, but it wasn't so dark that she couldn't see a table to the right of the archway with a man seated behind it. Oh hey, she got my editorial note about the torches! quote:The table was clearly being used as a desk, and when the man looked up, Jovvi produced her tremulous smile again. Uh, what? When would a table not be used as a desk? Though, given Jovvi's profession, I suppose it's not unreasonable that they had a dedicated room for office/schoolroom BDSM kink fantasies. What I don't get is since Green's going to go there eventually anyway, why she doesn't make things more interesting by injecting some characterization into the description! Instead of that nonsense sentence, she could have done something like this: "The way he beckoned her to come forward reminded Jovvi of a particular patron who liked to play at 'headmaster and naughty school girl' in one of the residence's specially outfitted rooms." which would have changed how Jovvi is perceived as a reader - i.e. actually being observant, taking cues from other characters and responding in a calculated way that is specific to the character she is interacting with to achieve her goal: quote:"I was told someone in here is supposed to take what's left of my ticket," she ventured, hesitantly holding out the stub. "Is this the right place?" WE DON'T NEED TO READ THIS WHY quote:"You'll need to wear this identification at all times, my dear," he instructed in a kindly way as he attached a chain to the middle of the card. "Just slip it over your head and take the paperwork, and then I'll have someone show you where you go next." You are already tiresome, Jovvi, and it's only your second viewpoint chapter. quote:"Reshin here will accompany you the rest of the way," the man said, gesturing to the woman he'd called over from a small group of people to one side of his table. "Just go along with her, and you'll be on your way to proper lodgings before you know it." Uh, Jovvi? As a fellow hater of wearing lanyards and other badges around my neck, it is totally possible to wear one at all times on your person without it being around your neck. The easiest one is to loop it around your belt so it hangs around your waist. Gay characters will later show up, so presumably LGBTQ people exist in this universe, yet Jovvi doesn't seem to know about them despite being a sex worker. This is pretty bizarre, since we'll later see that non-heterosexual relationships are kind of shunned so technically there should be a huge demand to cater to that market. quote:"I love that suit you're wearing," the woman Reshin said, sounding as if she really meant it. "Did you buy it here in Gan Garee?" I think Green is trying to paint the sex work industry as having a bitchy backstabby work culture and poor Jovvi doesn't have any real female friends because of that. Again, not having researched much into this, I'd be betting it's just like any other industry - some places are like that, some places are not. Right now, based on what we've got in the text, Jovvi is a self-centred operator who doesn't care about anyone. Eldra, who genuinely likes her and is about to be forced into sexual slavery, gets dismissed with an "oh well, that's life". There were "some girls" whom Jovvi would miss, but not apparently enough to think of them by name. And somehow we're supposed to buy the line that Jovvi doesn't have any real female friends because they're all jealous and resentful? I don't think so. Jovvi is a Regina George: quote:"Well, that pale violet really suits you," Reshin continued in the same friendly way. "I wish it suited me as well since I love the color, but I've learned that it doesn't love me back. But that's just as well, I suppose. My husband-to-be likes to see me in red, and that color I do get along with." Anyone into fashion want to explain to me why pale violet wouldn't suit a black haired woman but a red-trimmed gray dress is apparently fine? Like...black hair is about as neutral a hair color as you can get. quote:Jovvi remained silent until they had almost reached the far archway, but then she simply had to ask about what lay ahead. Making decent plans without knowing what you were about to face just wasn't possible, and there was too much at stake not to take the chance. Nothing wrong with the sentiment but you basically did zero research about your predicament and you have no actual plan besides "ask people where I can rent a nice house". If Green was a more talented author, I'd say perhaps she's trying to develop Jovvi as an unreliable narrator or something, but no, we're supposed to perceive Jovvi as the mature, responsible one. quote:"Reshin . . . what's supposed to happen next?" she asked diffidently, deliberately slowing the pace they'd both been walking at. "I'm , . . not really used to things like this, and I hate to admit it but I'm . . . frightened. Is there anything you can tell me?" That's your entire job? It sounds boring as hell and requires lots of walking. Why do you even want to keep this job if (presumably) your fiancé is rich enough that you don't have to work? quote:Jovvi nodded, understanding the woman's position perfectly. There were few enough positions for women in the business world as it was. Losing a good one for being too nosy would have been horrible, but that left her swinging in the wind. Well, there were bound to be people inside that building Reshin had mentioned, and at least one of them would have to be a man. . . . Walking people from the gate to a building is NOT a job in the "business world". The last time I checked, "business world" would refer to merchants and trade. Since this is testing required by law, I'd say it's more properly termed "public sector" or "government" work: very little skills required, no promotion or career progression opportunities, very little to no value add - yep, checks out. quote:Stepping outside again was something of a relief, at least until Jovvi got a good look at the circle of buildings beyond the wide walk separating them from the very large entrance building. The buildings that were part of the circle were made of resin, a material Jovvi had seen only once before in her life. It had been used by a very wealthy man to form his "playroom" just beyond his back garden, and Jovvi had almost ended up inside it. She'd been very young at the time and hadn't yet met Allestine, and hadn't known what that very wealthy man did to young girls in that room of his. If he hadn't decided to take that other girl in first, and if Jovvi hadn't been lucky enough to hear the girl's screams when a servant had opened the door . . . And here's a flashback of Jovvi narrowly escaping rape and battery in order to tell us that resin buildings are soundproof. I'm assuming that this property only applies to "oak resin" as per Lorand's chapter. quote:"Well, this is it," Reshin said, drawing Jovvi back from nightmare memories. "Just go straight in, and try not to worry. They really do need people like you, remember, so they can't possibly do anything too terrible to them." I think we're supposed to read this as Jovvi overcoming the trauma from her past due to her own mental fortitude and resilience, but this whole passage is so flat that I don't feel anything. quote:Inside there were lamps to brighten up the cream-colored resin of the walls, not to mention colorful hangings covering what seemed to be multiple doorways. Seeing hangings rather than actual doors made Jovvi feel even better, enough so that she was able to approach the man at another table with something like her usual confidence. This is how the guy's supposed to know you're looking to rent a house in a specific neighborhood that would be a good residence for courtesans? You're really bad at this. quote:"All in good time, child," the man interrupted gently, his smile still very evident. "We'll make sure you have what you need, but first you have to speak to some of our people. Just go through that doorway all the way to the right, and they'll take care of you." I don't know why Jovvi's only feeling "faintly uneasy" at this point. If it were me, being forced to follow a man deeper into a resin building (which is associated with a past traumatic event) while his two buddies are blocking my escape route to the rear, then my brain would be screaming " DANGER DANGER POTENTIAL GANG RAPE ATTEMPT ABORT ABORT " no matter how much it is supposed to be passed off as a government thing (and in some cases, particularly if it is being passed off as a government thing). quote:The man who walked ahead led her around a curve in the hall, then stopped in front of a door. It was made of the same resin as the rest of the building, but opened easily when the man pushed on it. How did you NOT notice that the door is leading to a pitch black room? Like, usually when doors are opened, you can see into a room and whether it's dark. This should not be a surprise to you. And if your isn't going off right now, then you have a terrible sense of self-preservation and I literally don't know how you made it through your harsh childhood on the streets. quote:"Oh, good grief, some fool turned down all the lamps," the man holding the door behind her said in annoyance. "If you'll just step forward one more pace, I'll be able to reach this lamp right by the door." This is the worst excuse. Also in a preindustrial world, I'm assuming there's no light switches, so if he's not a Fire talent, then he'd have to get a striker of some sort out - which begs the question of how would he even see what he's trying to light? Unless he's saying he's going to grab the lamp out of the dark, light it in the hallway and then put it back? And if he's a Fire talent, then it shouldn't matter! quote:Jovvi didn't like the idea of moving forward into all that pitch darkness, but the promise of immediate lamplight helped her to do it. "Just stand still now," she heard the man say, but instead of producing more light she suddenly had less. Rather than light a lamp he had closed the door, and now even the feeble light from the hall was gone! Oh no, no one could have possibly guessed that this would happen! quote:"Oh, no!" Jovvi tried to scream out, but the terrified protest turned into a whisper. She had been left in the dark with who-knew-what, and couldn't even bring herself to try to retrace her steps to the door. Darkness like that had always terrified her, and it was so bad that she couldn't even begin to think of anything to do! Hold on, you're scared of the dark and you...couldn't recognize from outside the doorway that the room was dark? quote:It seemed like forever that she stood trembling mindlessly there in the dark, but then she heard a noise from somewhere above her. It sounded like a scraping of some sort, but she was distracted from it by the sudden brightening of lamps being turned up. She saw the lamps as soon as they began to glow, and it didn't matter that they sat behind windows of clear resin higher in the walls of that place. They were providing the light she needed so badly, which soothed her terror—until she was able to look around. The light source is above you and you're scared of the dark which is around and below you, so why would you be scared of looking up?! quote:Jovvi wanted to scream that she was about to fall off that very narrow walkway, but she wouldn't have been able to get the words out even if they'd been true. Even as terrified as she was, she would not let herself do anything stupid like fainting, which would certainly have plunged her off into the unlit depths to either side of where she stood. Only the four-foot-wide walkway stretched across the abyss, providing footing between the door she'd come in by and another door at the far end. "very narrow walkway" =/= "four-foot-wide walkway" That's more generous than a typical staircase? quote:"In order to leave that room, you have to reach the doorway you can see at the other end of the walkway," the man above her continued. "The door behind you can't be opened from your side, but the other one can be. All you have to do to reach it is exercise your talent. If you do it properly you'll survive to reach the other side, but if you don't you'll die. The choice is yours, and I certainly hope you'll make the right one. Good luck or goodbye." It's...nerve-wracking to walk across a four-foot-wide walkway? Is Jovvi scared of heights as well as of the dark? I mean, I get that there's an abyss of unknown fathomless depths on either side, but this is plenty wide. If you're that scared of falling off, get on your hands and knees and crawl for ultimate stability. quote:Jovvi had served men of every aspect there was, and suddenly it felt as if the room were filled with every one of them—and all of them were either angry or upset. All those people were probably hidden somewhere below, but it did feel as though they were right there in the room. The heavy feelings battered at her where she stood, almost knocking her over, as palpable and real as if someone stood beside her pushing at her. Jovvi knew then she'd been wrong. She would have to use her ability, or she'd never be able to stand up under the assault. So...don't stand? Crawling is an option, just saying. quote:And "standing up" had taken on a very special, very important meaning. Jovvi could feel the sweat begin to bead her forehead as the mass of projected feelings grew even stronger, threatening to knock her around like some invisible wind. When she almost staggered under the load her terror increased; staggering now could mean falling off the walkway, into the depths and certain death. Look, I don't know about you, but usual strategy for managing headwind or crosswinds is to minimize surface area. This is "emotionwind" but if it's affecting your actual physical sense of balance, then there is a very simple thing you can do that will enhance your physical sense of balance. Like crouching down to lower your center of gravity and crawling, because that would give you at least 3 points of contact with the walkway which is significantly more stable than 2. quote:Jovvi had been frightened many times in her life, and each of those times she had reached out blindly with her skill, learning the best ways to keep herself safe. Now she no longer reached out blindly, but with the experience of practice and a certain maturity. It was her place to soothe all those raging feelings, to calm them to a proper balance that would let her maintain her own balance. In the last chapter maybe a week ago, you said you still had no idea what you were doing with Spirit magic. Are we supposed to understand from this that Jovvi was practicing during her entire trip to Gan Garee? If so, that would be completely out of character with what we've seen from her! quote:She had no more than about twenty-five or thirty feet to walk before she reached safety, but she needed to be steady on her feet to do it. That's all? DROP AND CRAWL, COME ON. quote:So she pushed her fear aside and reached out with that very special part of herself, knowing she first had to calm the storm before she might escape. There were women as well as men raging about, she could tell that easily, but reaching and calming them all wasn't quite the same. Bringing one or two or three to balance took no more effort than it ever had, but when she released them to touch the others they immediately went back to raging. It was like trying to gather up a bunch of frightened chickens without using an enclosure to hold them. As soon as she took her attention from the ones she'd caught to catch the others, the first bunch scattered again. YOU DON'T HAVE TO CATCH THEM ALL; THIS IS NOT POKEMON. quote:Which wasn't precisely what was happening, but the analogy was close enough. She had to touch and soothe and balance all those minds at the same time, something she'd never tried before. Just quote:And something she wasn't sure she could do. Her body had begun to tremble from being held so rigidly, but she didn't dare relax. And the storm felt as if it were growing stronger again, which would make it all that much harder to do. But if she didn't find a way to succeed she would die, and she didn't want to die. She wanted to live, but how was she supposed to accomplish that? How . . . ? YOU. GET. DOWN. AND. CRAWL. Summary: Day 1 Lorand and Hat, Jovvi and Clarion (yay, we'll get to relive the whole thing yet AGAIN from his perspective in the next chapter) all arrived in Gan Garee (still no clue what the city is like). They all get shiny IDs. The test involves escaping Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 10 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
PLOTHOLES: 4 COACH RIDES: 4 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 7 "CLIFFHANGERS": 4 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 6 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 1 Possible fixes: Let's see how many element specific ways I can say this for the rest of the remaining repetitive POV chapters from now until the end of the series. Fair warning, I will be pulling out a thesaurus because there are SO MANY OF THEM. Edit: typos and a messed up count Leng fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Aug 21, 2020 |
# ? Aug 20, 2020 15:45 |
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These sections make me think that Green would be absolutely horrible as a GM in a roleplaying game, because she loves to present contrived scenarios where there is only one acceptable escape. She would create an intricate trap room that requires a specific sequence of rolls to disable and punish any improvisation or creative solutions from the players. (And I bet she'd love the "forced moral choice" scenarios where you have to kill a baby goblin or something to solve a puzzle.) Jovvi should be able to crawl across the floor. Lorand should be able to stand on a pile of dirt instead of sculpting it into a staircase. But that's not the scene she had in mind, so she makes her characters pass their trials in the hardest way possible. Speaking of authors as RPG players and jumping in on the Sanderson chat, I see his treatment of religion as the same kind of mental trick that some conservative Christians feel helps them reconcile playing a game with gods and demons. Despite seeming omnipotent to mere humans they aren't real gods, they're mechanistic aspects of the universe left behind by an absent or hidden Creator. Which is why his magic systems lack the sense of wonder that TheGreatEvilKing has mentioned here and in other threads: they are explicitly not wondrous, they're just strange physics. Sanderson himself is very religious but tries to incorporate other perspectives. Traditionally he is praised for his worldbuilding and not his characterization but I think his approach to both stems from trying to write outside his own perspective: he writes stiff YA romance because he's not comfortable with premarital relations, and he writes magic like a Prima strategy guide because his natural viewpoint is to see divine hand in everything.
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# ? Aug 20, 2020 16:43 |
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wizzardstaff posted:These sections make me think that Green would be absolutely horrible as a GM in a roleplaying game, because she loves to present contrived scenarios where there is only one acceptable escape. She would create an intricate trap room that requires a specific sequence of rolls to disable and punish any improvisation or creative solutions from the players. (And I bet she'd love the "forced moral choice" scenarios where you have to kill a baby goblin or something to solve a puzzle.) Yes, exactly! She's approaching storytelling like a maths problem she's constructed where there's only one answer. Her characters are so wooden and lifeless because you never feel like any choices that they make are choices, because they're just arbitrary ways of getting to Green's solution. In addition to being able to crawl, we learned in the Lorand chapter that you can SHIELD. Later, in Book 8 we'll see a Middle in Spirit talk about a shield that he's developed which is plot critical. There is nothing to indicate that the concept of shielding shouldn't apply to all elements and there's also nothing to indicate that you can only affect other people with your talent. So other valid options would be: 1) Jovvi creates a shield around her own mind, to block out the emotions of others (spoilers for Book 4 or 5 I think during the endless stupid Tamrissa/Vallant relationship drama that is about to kick off in a few chapters, Jovvi specifically mentions she's having trouble blocking Tamrissa the way she's been able to do for a while); or 2) Jovvi uses her talent to take away her own fear and then give herself a massive boost of confidence I'd bet that if Green's asked why Jovvi can't do these things right now, it's because Jovvi doesn't know how her talent works. Given Jovvi's opening chapters were all like "what do I know about magic and talents and all that stuff", I'd buy that if Green hadn't put in that specific line about how Jovvi's now reaching out with "the experience of practice and a certain maturity". wizzardstaff posted:Speaking of authors as RPG players and jumping in on the Sanderson chat, I see his treatment of religion as the same kind of mental trick that some conservative Christians feel helps them reconcile playing a game with gods and demons. Despite seeming omnipotent to mere humans they aren't real gods, they're mechanistic aspects of the universe left behind by an absent or hidden Creator. Which is why his magic systems lack the sense of wonder that TheGreatEvilKing has mentioned here and in other threads: they are explicitly not wondrous, they're just strange physics. I think there's two parts to this: Sanderson actually talks a lot about why he writes magic the way he does and I don't think it's actually tied to his own religious beliefs. He discusses how he views it as writing magic on a spectrum of "sense of wonder" to "magic as science". Here's him specifically talking about how it applies to Lord of the Rings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATNvOk5rIJA&t=952s I also wonder whether there is an issue of pantheism vs monotheism. If you believe in a religion that emphasises there is a singular omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent deity who is absolutely benevolent then it follows that it would be difficult to build a pantheistic world where the deities don't come off as simply more powerful mortals - because what else distinguishes your gods from your mortals? I'm trying to think of some non-Sanderson examples where they have been able to create a sense of wonder in religion and I'm struggling:
The only thing I've read recently where there's a clear sense of wonder is the Wurtz and Feist collaboration on Empire - there's a very strong pantheistic religion throughout all three books and two beautiful moments in Book 2 Servant of the Empire and Book 3 Mistress of the Empire where the gods act through their priests and it's amazing.
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# ? Aug 21, 2020 02:20 |
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There's only 2901 words in this chapter. It's like Green realized partway through that she really shouldn't be writing about this but couldn't bear to not show every aspect's trials individually. This is the kind of thing you should release as "bonus content" on your website for hardcore fans who care about seeing the minutiae from every character's perspective, not include in your actual published book.quote:CHAPTER EIGHT Green's attempt at trying to develop character by showing how each of them react differently to the same setting is awful. I think Hat and Lorand were supposed to be awed since they are mere country bumpkins, except they were focused on guardsmen and Lorand describes the place as ultra utilitarian (is that even a word he should know? I know he's been to school and all, but still). All Jovvi remarks on is that the neighborhood is "odd" since it's not "middle-of-town" or "residential" and Clarion doesn't do any better. Is "coach rides are uncomfortable" the icebreaker in this world? Every single character has remarked on this particular point so far. quote:But that statistic was in danger of being topped by whatever his next experience would be. He turned to study the guard wall again as the coachmen struggled to remove his trunk from their vehicle, trying not to be incensed a second time over their refusal to take him anywhere near his and Mother's house there in the city. His ticket demanded that he be brought here, they'd insisted, and even an ordinary coach stop deeper in the city wouldn't do. He was supposed to "register" in this place, whatever that meant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM quote:"This here one's yours," the driver said to one of the guardsmen before setting Clarion's trunk down just beyond the men and inside the gate. "You boys have yourselves a real nice day." Ding ding ding! That makes all three male protagonists more melodramatic than their female counterparts. I don't know if this is an attempt by Green at inverting the stereotype but if so, then trying to do it via inner monologue is not effective. quote:"Let's see your ticket, friend," one of the guardsmen said, taking Clarion's attention. The hand he held out was large and meaty and blunt-fingered, clearly marking another member of the lower classes. What? Rich people can't be born large, meaty and have blunt-fingers? Or is it because they all hire Earth magic practitioners to sculpt their hands into the genteel noble ideal? (overpowered as Earth magic is, no, we will never find out if cosmetic surgery via Earth magic is a thing) quote:"Ticket?" Clarion echoed, thoroughly confused. "No one told me I needed a ticket to enter here. Are you trying to charge me for something I have no real need of, my good man? If so, then—" Please write this scene instead, rather than rehashing the same stupid "present ticket at gate, present ticket at desk, register and get ID, then proceed to testing do not pass GO do not collect $200" sequence. I want to read about Clarion getting himself thrown into jail because he tried to assert his nobleman's "rights" and having to grow up because he gets beaten up by all the other inmates. quote:"Okay," the guardsman grunted after inspecting the stub, now offering the useless thing back. "Take this inside to the archway just to the left of the one directly behind this post. When you give it to them, they'll tell you what to do next." Since I already pointed out the uselessness of this to the actual plot in Jovvi's chapter, I guess we should talk about where all the other trunks are. These guys are not the only people who are arriving for testing. There should be a giant cloakroom or luggage store for all of this stuff! Also how is it possible none of the three POVs have noticed luggage from other people? They all took a public coach service right? Shouldn't they all have been travelling with other people? In this world there is no COVID-19 so they shouldn't be required to socially distance in a coach or have passenger limits. By the way history was my worst subject so I'm literally picturing Skyrim carriages as my reference, with maybe like some sort of enclosure: Like this perhaps? Plenty of room in there for other passengers! And yes, if you're travelling like this, then I agree, that looks like an uncomfortable ride. My point is, the physical uncomfortableness of the ride is the least relevant part of the discomfort. Surely as a noble, accustomed to his own private carriage and driver, Clarion should have been complaining not about the actual coach itself, but about having to be crammed in next to five or so commoners who don't shower and having to stay overnight in public inn rooms smaller than the size of his tiniest closet at the Mardimill's fourth estate that they only ever go to once every three years. quote:Inside was one of those would-be grand administrative buildings one could find in various parts of the city, but this one lacked the doors of the last one Clarion had seen. The structure had nothing but simple archways, and the one he'd been told to use was the next one to the left of the archway straight ahead. Clarion had the urge to pick an archway at random and use that instead, Write this scene instead! I would love to read about Clarion randomly bullying his way into the testing room of some other aspect and then just breezing through the test. Falling earth? No problem, create an umbrella of hardened Air to shield himself from the dirt and then effortlessly walk up an invisible staircase of his own construction (with fancy invisible wrought Air railings none of those commoners could possibly appreciate because they lack his refined artistic tastes). Raging emotions threatening to tumble him into the bottomless pits on either side of the walkway? Easy! Just put up two sturdy fences of hardened Air on either side and stroll on through, unbothered by the unimportant emotions of peasants who are always undoubtedly upset or angry by one thing or another since that's their natural state. But no, that would make the plot much more interesting and have Clarion behaving in ways that is consistent with his character and we can't have that in a Sharon Green book. quote:but being frivolous would only delay his reaching Mother's house and some true comfort. He therefore strode to the proper entrance and walked inside. Oh no, not the hat! I think, but I can't confirm for sure, this is the last time we see Clarion wear a hat (mainly because I can't be bothered searching for "hat" through the next seven books). quote:"This is Fellar, and he'll take you to where you have to go," the man behind the table said. "Give them that set of papers when you get there, and they'll tell you what to do next." I don't think Green understands what "intolerable" means. If it really is intolerable, Clarion should have straight up strangled someone with Air magic by now. quote:Fellar moved at a brisk pace ahead of Clarion, but Clarion made no effort to hurry and catch up as he might have done earlier. He'd gotten to Gan Garee completely on his own without the least difficulty, ...you got on a public coach, the physical motions of which are no different to getting into a private carriage. You didn't even have to buy your own ticket, which would have required you to demonstrate some basic skill in handling money and logistics. quote:and soon he would be free of these stupid people and their nonsensical requirements. With that in view he had no reason to put himself out hurrying after some nobody who was there for no other reason than to guide him. If the man found himself too far ahead of Clarion, he'd have to stop and wait. Two coppers? What a scrooge. Even Hat tipped a whole silver! quote:The symbol for Air magic had been next to the door on the outside of the building, but the first inner room was perfectly ordinary. Soft lamps lit cream-white walls of resin, garish hangings covered various doorways, and another table held another man sitting behind it. This man was fractionally younger than the one in the other building, and he looked up at Clarion with a neutral smile. Not one, but TWO women! I thought there were very few jobs for women per Jovvi? Is Jovvi wrong? Jovvi's probably wrong. quote:"Follow me, please," he said, then began to lead the way up the hall they stood in. But at least this new guide moved slowly enough to be followed easily and looked back to be sure his charge was with him, so again Clarion made no protest. He followed the man while the two women followed him, and in a moment they reached a closed door. A boring chapter, this is. quote:lit by lamps hidden behind windows of clear resin high in the walls, with no furniture but a single low stool. Clarion turned to demand what sort of joke that was supposed to be, but the man was gone behind the door which had silently closed. It's not unacceptable if you're able to accept it - particularly if you've only grumbled about it internally to yourself. That's called an annoyance. Hope that helps! quote:He stepped back to the door, intending to throw it open and march out to confront the fools, but there was nothing on the inside of the door to grasp. And it was closed so tightly the joining of door and jamb seemed almost seamless, giving Clarion the fleeting impression it was also sealed. I already didn't when I read this line in Lorand's POV, I was bored when I saw it again in Jovvi's POV and now I'm just... *snore* quote:Clarion was so appalled, the man had pulled back and pushed closed the small door before Clarion had gathered his wits together enough to speak. By then it was too late, of course, but that didn't seem to matter much. Any demand for further explanations would probably have been ignored, and even if they'd been given, Clarion would certainly have had trouble understanding. Never before had his life been threatened, and he couldn't believe it was happening now. The man must have been joking, if not simply lying . . . Did you forget last week's fireball attack? Or do you mean to say that you didn't feel threatened by the fireball? I had to check Clarion's last chapter to be sure, and yep, he didn't feel threatened. Fine, one point to Green for being consistent with this aspect of Clarion's character. quote:But that was when Clarion became aware of something else that had never happened. The air in the room ... although he no longer consciously noticed it, he was always aware of the air in any place he happened to be. The pressure and shape of it changed according to the elevation of the place where it was, but the volume of it had never varied. Now . . . now the volume in that room was changing and lowering, as if someone or something slowly drew out the air and refused to allow it to flow back in. If something wasn't done, he would eventually lack enough to breathe! Stop with the hat. I don't understand why you need to take off the hat. Does wearing a hat affect your ability to do Air magic? Or possibly to think? quote:The answer to that came quickly, as though part of his mind had waited all his life to begin functioning. The first thing he had to do was keep from losing any more air, and stretching out the fingers of his ability soon found the place where the air was being drawn out. He thickened the air at that point to keep it from flowing through the set of tiny holes in the wall, and the stratagem worked perfectly. No more air was drawn out through those holes, but that was when he became aware of the second set. Oh the horror of having to do multiple things at once! quote:For he still had no way out of that place, except for the wild idea he'd gotten in passing. The small door his guide to that room had looked out of; it had closed inwardly, so it ought to be possible to push it open from his side. The only problem with that idea was how high the small door was, more than six feet higher than the top of his head. Standing on the stool would be a waste of time, but what else could he stand on? I swear Green wrote this whole chapter as the setup for an extremely unfunny punny ending of having Clarion the Air magic practitioner "walk on Air". quote:And how long would it be before his strength gave out, bringing an abrupt end to his life? Clarion tangled his fingers in his hair, feeling the fear inside him grow stronger. He had to find a way out of there, but how? How? How . ..? Green's not even trying at this point, compared to the two previous cliffhangers. Summary: Day 1 Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 11 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 4 COACH RIDES: 4 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 7 "CLIFFHANGERS": 5 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 6 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes:
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# ? Aug 21, 2020 03:33 |
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quote:CHAPTER NINE Green manufactures a lot of stupid plot points, but this probably takes the cake. There are so many plothole issues with this:
There's so many other ways you could get the protagonists into a communal living situation that don't involve this convoluted plot point. Green did this purely in order to try and give Tamrissa an appearance of being strong and independent, as well as to kick off the eternally stupid Tamrissa/Vallant conflict that will last for basically the rest of this series. quote:Should be able to. I sighed at that thought as the public carriage took me toward the testing center, the city just beginning to wake up all around us. At the moment all I could concentrate on was the knot of fear in my middle, which twisted and tightened with every breath I took. My life and sanity depended on my passing that test, and determination isn't quite the same as confidence. This is just as dumb as the coach tickets. quote:I'd heard that people of lesser ability were always trying to sneak in to take one of the tests, most of them being convinced that their evaluations had been wrong and they did have the potential to reach High if only they were given the chance to try. I could understand that outlook all too easily, but although I sympathized with those poor unfortunates I didn't think much of their intelligence. Even marginal talents were sent for testing, just to be on the safe side, so misevaluations weren't very likely. Or just post a freaking Guild talent at the gates, geez. quote:There weren't many people around at that early hour of the morning, and the coolness of the air made me glad I wore a long-sleeved dress. I'd been directed to a particular archway into the building, and when I stepped through it I saw a man to the right, sitting behind a table. Even as I watched he patted back a yawn, and I knew exactly how he felt. ...why? There's literally no reason I can see how this benefits anybody. The test is the test, when they take it makes no difference. quote:He flashed me another neutral smile, then gave all his attention to writing on a larger card than the one I'd given him. He was being very polite and pleasantly distant, but I knew it wasn't simply good manners making him act like that. Tamrissa just having idle homicidal thoughts here. Totally perfectly normal. quote:And then there was the matter of the tests. No one knew in advance who would or would not pass, and insulting an applicant could turn out to mean having insulted a High. At that point the man who did the insulting would certainly be out of a job, and possibly even finding it difficult to get another. Those who claim gold and silver mean nothing have never been in the position of needing to support a family, otherwise they would have learned better. Besides the "love your children" stuff, I feel like Green's secondary theme in the books is "strength is the only thing that matters". She kind of laid some groundwork, with the whole "the strongest Blending rules" in the Prologue, and the magic system itself. There's also quite frequent attempts to draw parallels between magical and physical strength and the relative strength of a parent vs a child, in the context of convincing everybody to do what you want and disciplining/raising a child. Spoilers for the first series: the main cast will be the strongest High talents ever discovered, and they basically use their strength to do whatever they want, and it is totally okay because they're Good People so everything they do is Right Book 8 spoilers: at the very end, Tamrissa asks why the advanced nation of full Blendings manipulating things from the shadows didn't just make everyone do the right thing, and the answer is "because making people do what we believe is the right thing by force isn't very fair minded". quote:"All right, here you are," the man behind the table said, recapturing my attention. "This is your identification as an applicant, and you must wear it at all times. You have a number of stops to make throughout this building, and then you'll be taken to the place you have to go. Don't lose these papers, since you'll need to show them at all the stops." This time, we're even told in advance there's going to be a "number of stops" IN THE BUILDING. And yes, we're going to have to read about Tamrissa making every single one of them. quote:By then I'd slipped the chain attached to the card over my head, so I accepted the set of papers as a woman came up to the table. I'd seen the man gesture the woman over, so she had to be the one who would show me where to go. She touched my arm before heading toward a stairway, proving my theory, so I quickly followed along. People only usually use the word "theory" in relation to conjecture they've made about a relatively nuanced or difficult problem. Figuring out who your guide to the next stop in the building does not qualify. quote:The stairs were made of the same stone as the building, and we climbed quite a few of them before reaching the second floor. I would have asked my guide about where we were going and how long the stop would take, but she moved just far enough ahead of me to make conversation awkward. She also had no trouble using both hands to raise her skirt high enough to avoid stepping on it, but one of my hands was full of papers. Also using it to hold up my skirt took concentration, which worked even more against getting involved in talk. What? That is a picture of my actual wedding dress from the dressmaker. There was sufficient fabric in the skirt that I required assistance from my maid of honor to go to the bathroom (yeah that was a new experience). The amount of concentration it took me to hold up my skirt on my wedding day with ONE hand whenever I was moving faster than a walk (because you really don't need to hold it up if you're just walking and you also don't need two hands if your gown is properly fitted which Tamrissa's should be since she's a rich merchant's widow) was...let's see...ZERO. How elaborate and badly fitting a gown is Tamrissa wearing that she needs both hands and enough concentration that it would be too difficult to hold a conversation? quote:At the top of the stairs the woman turned left, walked a short distance to a door also on the left, then opened it and went through. Because these vaguely specific directions are so vital to our understanding of the story. quote:When I followed I found myself in a small room with a man behind a table, a row of plain wooden chairs, and two closed doors behind the man and his table. My guide waited until I was inside, then silently left, closing the door behind herself. Yep, they are literally playing "musical rooms" with all of the Gan Garee applicants. And we're going to have to read about Tamrissa sitting in all of these stupid rooms for no good reason other than because Green doesn't know how to control pacing in her own narrative. quote:The relief was exquisite when I rose to my feet and followed the man to the righthand door behind his table. He opened it to allow me through, then closed it behind me without entering the room. It was smaller than the first, and had only another man behind another table without any other chairs in sight. For someone who identifies herself as a sci-fi writer, I am extremely disappointed that Green did not call it room forty-two. quote:The thought that my next stop might well be the test itself kept me silent until I'd walked out the indicated door, and then I was occupied with finding room twenty-two. It turned out to be on the other side of the building, but when I opened its door I saw an exact copy of the outer room I'd so recently left. Please, do!! Give in to your homicidal urges Tamrissa! It'd be disturbing but more entertaining reading about you committing mass murder. quote:but I simply didn't dare. I couldn't do anything at all that might jeopardize my chance to be tested, not even raise my voice to protest. I'd have to continue on with the pointless, and put up with it for as long as necessary. Our fierce would-be murderer is so brave that it takes a LOOK to cow her into sitting on an uncomfortable chair. quote:When the time finally came for it to be over, it took a moment before I realized it. I'd had nothing to do all that time but think, and it occurred to me that the government wanted the tests to be as equitable as possible. That way fewer mistakes in evaluation would be made, since it was far easier to come in for testing from one of the city's neighborhoods than it was to come in from one of the provinces. Some people spent a week in a coach before reaching Gan Garee, and their strength would necessarily be less than that of someone who came from the other side of the city. I think we're supposed to buy this as a legitimate and genuinely good in-world reason for why the coach arrivals are timed so carefully. Not having done the full cost/benefit analysis for the Gandistran Empire, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that prima facie it'd be less expensive and more logical to just schedule all tests the day after any non-local applicants arrive, and the local ones as and when their appointments are. Not to mention less irritating for us readers. quote:So they'd developed a method of wearing down city residents to the point of feeling as if they'd spent a week in a coach. All that endless waiting in incredibly uncomfortable chairs, of being sent from one side of the building to the other for no reason other than being told to do it. After countless hours I felt as wearily impatient as it was possible to be, and that was why it took a moment before I noticed the first deviation from what had become the norm: when I was shown into an inner room, there were two men in it rather than one. Sharon Green obviously has no experience in wearing long skirts. Skirts have a penalty to overall dexterity in proportion to their length and bulkiness, not a particular direction of travel on stairs. quote:but that time I think I discovered the secret of flying. The man I followed walked too fast for me to take my time without also taking the chance of losing him, so flying was the only way to keep up. I reached the bottom of the stairs without remembering anything of how I got there, and then I nearly ran to keep my guide in sight. If I lost him I'd probably kill myself, and I really didn't want to die. This is some weirdness going on with Green and how fast she thinks women are capable of moving in a dress. Unless it's 15 kgs (30 lbs) of heavy crystal beaded brocade ballgown with a cathedral train, it's not going to slow me significantly. If I'm in five inch stilettos...maybe, but probably not even then because if you actually are wearing a pair of well-fitted heels, you can run in them. I have played soccer whilst wearing stiletto boots in social settings; all they did was make my opponents fear the possibility of me stepping on their feet. quote:I was led outside to the back of the building, and was shocked to discover it was only somewhere around noon. I'd been ready to swear I'd spent a long enough time on the second floor for it to be past sundown, but obviously I'd been mistaken. There were a lot more people around now than earlier, and some of them were moving as close to a run as I was. But I noticed that only in passing, since most of my attention was on the man I followed. Hahaha, Tamrissa is so sheltered she doesn't understand the concept of a tip. Actually good characterization from Green. quote:Inside the doorway was a rather large room, and once again there was a man behind a table. This one was slightly older than the others had been, and his smile looked a bit more real. Uh no, it really is not. The same " ALERT ALERT POTENTIAL GANG RAPE ABDUCTION ABORT ABORT " that should have gone off in Jovvi's head should have been going off in Tamrissa's head as soon as she saw three men waiting. I guess despite her history of being sexually abused doesn't make her survival radar any better. Nor does Tamrissa also notice the PITCH BLACK ROOM from the hallway. And as a Fire talent, instead of instinctively summoning a bundle of candle-sized flames to see, she just goes and steps into the dark. What. The. Hell. quote:but despite my eagerness to see that experience over and done with, I suddenly found myself suspicious. Even in the perpetual dimness of the main building, none of the rooms had been this dark. quote:I reached toward the man with one hand and all my ability, and a raging inferno roared toward him where he stood beyond the now-closing door. About time! I'm actually cheering for Tamrissa, who's been the only one to actually DO anything so far. Part of me wonders whether Green intentionally had the others appear like idiots just so she could have Tamrissa look proactive in comparison. quote:I could feel him trying to raise and hold a barrier with his own Fire talent, but his strength seemed only a small fraction of mine. Another clear mention of the ability to shield, even by a Low talent. quote:I would reach him and keep that door from closing, and then I would— And then I would run into a heavy sheet of rain produced by Water magic! The curtain of rain appeared right in front of the man my flames were about to reach, and the resulting steam made everyone flinch back. That included the other two men, who now stood behind the first, and it was obvious that they were the source of the Water magic. Not a very strong source even working together, and not one that could have stopped my flames for long, but they'd stopped them for just long enough. The resin door finished closing between us, and by the light of the fire raging uselessly against it, I was able to see that there was nothing I could use to open it again. We now get the belated explanation on why there are so many people accompanying each applicant. It's actually logical but Green is so bad at description that whenever she does do something that makes sense it always hits as a bit of a surprise. quote:I slumped in defeat where I stood, the chill of fear spreading through my bones, and let all but a slender flame of fire die. Once resin hardens it refuses to burn, and even melting it takes hours and hours of effort by a team of Middles. I had no idea why I'd been locked into that room, but it couldn't have been for anything good. I'd learned that lesson from my husband as well, a thought which made me sick to my stomach. Just so everyone's clear, the exit is fifteen feet away (about 4.5 meters), through a barred door. quote:"I sincerely hope you've regained control of yourself, ma'am," a voice said, and I looked up to see the man who'd pushed me into the room. He now looked out of a small door high in the wall, and he seemed almost as shaken as I felt. Time to run Tamrissa! You can do it - you're the most proactive one so far! Surely you won't just stand there like the others? quote:Hope rose in me briefly, only to die out again as I made some mental calculations. The U of metal was narrow, so narrow I would barely have the room to stand when it stopped the walls. And I certainly would find it impossible to pass the U in order to reach that second door. Not that reaching it would help. The moving walls would end up covering most of it, hiding it behind the resin I could do nothing against. Oh, you are. Of course you are. quote:Terror came again as those walls rumbled steadily toward me, a terror that screamed at me to do something! I wanted to do something, anything that was possible, but nothing was. I put my hands to my mouth to keep from screaming aloud, the words of defeat ringing in my mind: there's nothing to do! Nothing to do! Nothing to do ... ! Look if you want to scream, go ahead a scream. But how about you do it while RUNNING TOWARDS THE EXIT? Summary: Day 1 Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 11 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 5 COACH RIDES: 4 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 8 "CLIFFHANGERS": 6 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 6 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
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# ? Aug 22, 2020 15:19 |
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The whole "tricked into the testing room" bit seems pointless anyway. The subjects know they are there for testing, they are (relatively-speaking) willing (in the sense that they turned up, rather than trying to run away), so why not just say "go in that room, that's where the test is" to them? There's not even a need for the room to be dark, initially.
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# ? Aug 23, 2020 04:40 |
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Technically the in-world explanation that we'll get five times from Chapters 11 through 15 is "pass or die" thing is for people like Jovvi and Vallant who intend to fail so they can return to their own lives. Though if you mean the bit about tricking them into walking into the room, yeah, that makes no sense whatsoever. The pitch black excuse I assume is presumably to prevent them from "seeing" the test in advance (like the equivalent of "do not turn over your exam paper until you are told to do so"). They could have even constructed a small entry way like those horse stalls before a race where it's one way only. It's plotholes galore whichever way you look at it. From somewhere at the back end of Book 1, we'll get some noble POVs this the sole purpose of pulling back the curtain on the ridiculous amount of pageantry put on by the nobility that serves no purpose other than to create a convoluted plot that is not interesting at all. Green would have been better served by thinking through some of these plotholes rather than trying to explain them away but
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# ? Aug 23, 2020 06:09 |
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Only 2320 words until we get to the...middle of this overdramatized travesty that is the initial test for High practitioner. There's another five chapter slog to watch them all finish it, but on the plus side, from Chapter 11 onwards, they'll all be more or less in the same location so we start seeing them interact with each. (I just flipped ahead to Chapter 11 to refresh myself on what happens and maybe I should not have used the phrase "on the plus side", but whatever, we'll talk about that in Chapter 11) quote:CHAPTER TEN Hello terrible D&D style character building! Because Green couldn't be bothered creating real characters with real flaws, she gave them quirky not-a-real-flaw flaws. Here's the list so far:
You'll notice Clarion and Tamrissa aren't on the list because I think those two are Green's favorites. Both of their flaws are basically "they have terrible abusive parents". quote:But it still wasn't going to happen. Vallant's basic love of life pushed its way through his depression, making him smile faintly with self-ridicule. No one was trying to break him, they just didn't understand what true freedom meant. To them what they did was ordinary and everyday, not an imposition on a man's right to be unencumbered. Vallant could have felt sorry for them if he hadn't been working so hard not to feel sorry for himself. I'm pretty sure this will be the last or close to last time we will ever see a character point out their own genuine idiocy in an inner monologue. quote:"Just take what's left of yer ticket to them guardsmen, Val," the coach driver, Ennis, said as he handed over Vallant's sea bag. "They'll tell ya what t'do next." It would have been nicer character building if Green had actually written a scene with Vallant telling Ennis outlandish tales. quote:"I'm told you need to see this stub," Vallant said to the guardsmen when he reached them, handing over the item. "What would have happened if I'd thrown it away?" This is why this stupid coach ticket stub system is terrible. We've also got another obvious plothole - 3 of the 5 protagonists (Jovvi, Clarion and Vallant) don't want to have anything to do with this test. Two of them are using it as an excuse to get away from people trying to control them. Despite this, they all merrily proceed as told and Clarion is the only one who even considers doing anything different. I could buy Vallant deciding to play it by the book because he made up his mind in his previous chapter to not bring dishonor on his family. Technically Clarion is in the same boat because his mother is obviously getting some form of political pressure to force him through it; except Clarion doesn't have a fraction of the life experience that Vallant does so he shouldn't be able to understand this subtext and therefore should have just wandered off like the noble rear end he is to do whatever he pleases. Jovvi makes the least sense of all. She grew up on the streets so she's got skills from before she was a courtesan. She's got definite "plans" (they're really sucky plans but still) of what she'd rather be doing instead. She's at least a strong Middle in Spirit so she's the best placed to just give her coach driver the slip along the way by disappearing or faking her death, or something. She's got enough gold on her to bribe someone into silence, and came prepared to start life over - which you would think involves PICKING A NEW PERSONA. We literally just got in text confirmation that the Gandistran Empire doesn't even do a proper check to make sure no one goes missing along the way - it's so lax that anybody claiming to be here when they shouldn't is kept waiting for a week - and not even in a secure location so they can't disappear. Jovvi, our savvy Littlefinger wannabe manipulatress, should have been all over this and just gone "oops, I can't find my coach ticket", been sent on her way and hey, her character's goal is achieved without any struggle. But that would have completely derailed Green's plot so instead of FIXING THE PLOTHOLE, her characters just act like lemmings. quote:Vallant grunted noncommittally and headed for the gate, glad he'd asked the question even if he hadn't liked the answer. Without the ticket stub he wouldn't have starved or had to live on the street, not when the bank his family used had its main office there in Gan Garee. It was the extra time he would have wasted that made him glad he hadn't tossed away the means of identifying him when Ennis had first told him about it. The tickets of applicants for High were special and different, and that's why those who were sent to Gan Garee weren't left to buy their own. Remember Vallant's thought about the bank. This will be relevant later in Book 1. quote:The sun above him told Vallant it was just about noon, and the people hurrying in and out of the large building he walked toward seemed to be ready for lunch. Vallant had already eaten his at Ennis's suggestion while they were still on the road. He'd bought the food at the roadhouse where they'd stopped for breakfast while the horses were being changed, and the sliced beef sandwich had been kept fresh because he'd thought to form and hold some ice around it. Vallant is a walking fridge. quote:He'd done the same for Ennis's sandwich and the driver had returned the favor by heating both sandwiches and melting some cheese on them when he and Vallant had been ready to eat. Lucky Ennis's coach guard had taken sick at the beginning of the run and hadn't been replaced. That had let Vallant ride on top of the coach rather than leaving him cooped up inside. . . . He's also the only one with any actual social skills in this group of protagonists. quote:The building was large on the inside as well, which came as a relief to Vallant. Small areas and crowded buildings tended to make him uncomfortable, especially when there was no easy access to the outside. His cabin aboard the Sea Queen wasn't enormous, but it had large bow windows which he usually left wide open. This building didn't have much in the way of windows, but its very high ceiling and open floor let Vallant ignore that fact as he walked up to the table a short distance from the archway he'd used to enter. We get it, dude is claustrophobic. quote:"I believe this is supposed to be given to you," Vallant said to the man behind the table, once again handing over his ticket stub. "And I would also appreciate knowin' how long I'll be here. After a week on a coach seat, I could use some place stationary to stretch out for a while." Annnd we're back to Vallant being an rear end. Dude, she's just not that into you. Get over it. It happens. You are not the Prime Aspect's gift to women, believe it or not. quote:But he wasn't here to involve himself with women, after all. He was here to fail a test and then head home, so he followed along behind the pretty little thing without complaint. If he wondered what she might look like under that very plain gown she wore, it was only to give himself something to occupy his mind. rear end in a top hat quote:So far his first trip to the legendary Gan Garee was even more boring than being becalmed. Us too. Green had a chance to show us this supposedly legendary capitol city in Lorand's POV and wasted it. Instead of treating us to the sights and sounds of Gan Garee as the coach winds its way through the city, we got a description of a large wall surrounding a grey compound. Nobody else actually cares since Tamrissa's a local and Clarion is a noble, Jovvi doesn't notice anything unless dollar signs are involved and Vallant is a well traveled sailor. quote:The woman led Vallant out of the large building and across the outer walkway, obviously heading toward a group of odd-looking buildings standing in a circle a short distance away. They passed two of the buildings before the woman stopped, and the relatively small doorway she gestured to wasn't particularly encouraging. But the door had the symbol for Water magic on the wall beside it, and it was standing open. That was enough to let Vallant walk inside, which he did without giving the woman more than one final glance. But she was already on her way back to the large building, so Vallant shrugged and forgot about her. I too would like to forget about you. quote:This smaller building immediately made Vallant uncomfortable, but not so much so that he was willing to show it. He walked up to another man seated at another table, and handed over the set of papers he'd been given. How does this guy manage to survive living in a room in the Roaring Sailor tavern when his claustrophobia's so bad he can't even walk down this hallway? quote:"Please follow me," one of the men said, and began to lead the way up that horribly narrow hall. Vallant followed, giving all his attention to the man rather than what they walked through. And it wasn't even a very long walk. In just a couple of minutes the man stopped and opened a door on the left, so Vallant immediately passed the man and plunged into the room. His breath wanted to come in gasps to match the whirling behind his eyes, but as soon as he found those windows he would be fine. He just had to shake his head hard enough to clear his vision . . . And that makes all five of them stupid enough to walk into a place without looking ahead. Observational skills are not this crew's strong point. quote:"You can't get out that way," a voice said, making him whirl around. The man who had led him to that trap looked out of a small door he'd opened fairly high in the wall opposite, too far out of reach for Vallant to get his hands on him. Finally! Vallant is the only one who automatically DOES SOMETHING SENSIBLE when in danger instead of freezing in place like the others. Yes, this is all part of Green's grand plan to characterize him as the resourceful commander in charge. I guess it can't be helped if he's saddled with idiots instead of sensible people. quote:Began to. Vallant had only just gotten started with putting out the fires when the first of the flames began to burn again. Only this time they were somewhat closer to where he'd retreated to, the approximate center of the room. That had to mean the circle of fire would continue to tighten until it met inside him, and he would probably find it impossible to put out all of it. Even now sparks were beginning to fly at him, trying randomly to set him afire. He had to get out of that room in order to survive—not to mention stay sane— but how was he supposed to do that? And of course she immediately ruins it by having the experienced Captain Ro, who probably has survived any number of life threatening storms at sea, freeze in place just like the rest of the protagonists. This is totally out of character, since potential loss of life is basically an occupational hazard for a sailor. quote:Now do you see what I meant when I said we all had a terrible time? There can't be anyone reading this who doesn't know we survived, but what it cost us to survive is another matter entirely. And not long after that was when we met, with not a single one of us at his or her best. The biggest surprise isn't that we survived the tests, but that we all survived the meetings. Now let's see, in what order did we finish those tests . . . ? Just when you thought we had the benefit of Green dropping Tamrissa's odious narration that hasn't appeared in the last four chapters, here it is again! Summary: Day 1 Counts so far: (I'll start bolding the changes so it's clearer) NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 12 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 6 COACH RIDES: 4 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 9 "CLIFFHANGERS": 7 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 7 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
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# ? Aug 23, 2020 13:41 |
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Get ready for a disruption to the order of the rotating POVs! According to Tamrissa's narration, it apparently is important for her account of these events to be done in the order that they finished the tests for...reasons. I'm pretty sure the only reason they were able to figure out the order of events is because everyone's first action was to go have a bath and therefore they were able to figure it out because everyone meets each other in the bath house. (you think I'm joking but no, I'm not. Here begins the first bath house sequence) Anyway, since this chapter is so boring, I've decided to try and translate the rest of the test into what it would have looked like in Arena.xlsm (which is an awesome little game): pre:D = first door T = Tamrissa U = U shaped piece of metal B = barred door We start the chapter with the walls closing in: +----------B---------+ | | | | | U | | | | | | T | +----------D---------+ quote:CHAPTER ELEVEN So Tamrissa does not believe she's in danger of being crushed but she's "almost too terrified to think"? pre:The walls continue to close in: +----------B---------+ | | | | | U | | | | | | T | +----------D---------+ quote:That was when a terrible thought occurred to me, so I moved over closer to that U and took a really good look at it. Sure enough, it wasn't made of steel the way I'd thought at first. It was made of some very light metal I wasn't familiar with, which brought my terror back full force. This is almost as bad an error as the "lavishly sponging" error in Jovvi's first POV chapter. If Tamrissa is almost "too terrified to think" then her terror certainly hasn't gone anywhere to be coming "back full force". By definition, being almost too terrified to think implies that Tamrissa's terror-o-meter is at close to max already, as opposed to having nearly subsided. The Twilight thread complains a lot about Meyer using a thesaurus but I feel like Green really could have benefited from one. She's used "terrified", "terrible" and "terror" in the first two sentences of this chapter already. quote:It might keep those grinding walls apart for a time, but if they continued to push on it they would crush the U between them. I could feel that the metal wasn't tempered with heat, which would have made it significantly stronger. We've now seen all five aspects in action, and it's pretty basic elemental magic:
Spoilers for Book 5 onwards: Sight - perception of the probability of certain events occuring, basically futuresight Earth is overpowered by a significant margin. I have a feeling the reason we mainly see like aspect combat/contests (the author being overly obsessed with her concept of FIVE FIVE FIVE) is because she couldn't figure out how to make it work because her magic system is so unbalanced. wizzardstaff's earlier comment about Green being a really crappy DM is so on point. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make here is that it is pretty weird for Tamrissa, a Fire talent, to be able to sense that this U-shaped piece of metal is not tempered. According to everything else we've seen and will see on the page, Lorand should be the only one who can feel the composition of metals through Earth magic and therefore know this particular piece of metal not tempered. quote:Which meant that I was in danger of being crushed, only not right away. I'd be able to stand there and watch the metal being destroyed, knowing my own destruction would come immediately thereafter. A shudder rippled through me, turning my knees weak, threatening to send me to the floor in the midst of swirling blackness. First Jovvi, now Tamrissa. Green's really feeling like she needs to hit the fainting female trope here. quote:In just a few minutes I would die horribly, proving my parents had been right to believe I'd never pass this test. pre:The walls continue to close in: +----------B---------+ | | | | | U | | | | | | T | +----------D---------+ quote:And that thought, strangely enough, immediately began to give me back some control over myself. I hated the idea of my parents being right about anything that concerned me, knowing how scornful and demeaning their thoughts would be even while they were being told I was dead. They would also be furious that I'd escaped them, but that wasn't the way I'd planned to escape. I wanted to be there to see their faces when they learned I was free, had to be there to see it, so there was only one thing I could do. Pass that test and survive. Thanks for needlessly repeating things you already told us in your first viewpoint chapter. pre:The walls continue to close in: +----------B---------+ | | | | | U | | | | | | T | +----------D---------+ quote:But that was more easily decided than done. I put a trembling hand to my hair as I really looked around, my mind searching for ideas. This is such a bizarre action to do right now. quote:I'd been thinking that nothing was possible, but that couldn't be true. There had to be something, and the trick would be to find it. Maybe a closer look at the barred door would help . . . NO KIDDING?!?~?!!??@!! pre:Tamrissa heads north: +----------B---------+ | | | | | U | | | | T | | | +----------D---------+ quote:I slid around the U of metal even though the moving walls weren't close enough yet to be a real problem, and hurried over to the door. pre:Tamrissa runs north: +----------B---------+ | T | | | | U | | | | | | | +----------D---------+ quote:It was barred closed all right, but not with a metal as light as what the U was made of. In order to open the door the bar would have to be slid from the rings it had been run through, but there was no room on either side to do that. The bar would have to be cut in two places at the very least, and the only thing available to cut it would be my flames. It would take time and a lot of effort, but I suddenly began to think it might be possible. What?
Also there were four paragraphs at the end of Chapter 9 and another six paragraphs up to this point of hand waving in despair. It could have all just been avoided in two sentences. "I ran for the exit, a barred door on the other side of the room. The bar was welded in place; in order to escape I would have to cut through it in at least two places by summoning fire." quote:That, of course, was when I remembered about those moving walls. I didn't have a lot of time, especially since one end of the door seemed to have some mechanism to open it, and the ends of the door were what would be covered first by the walls. I had to stop those walls long enough to give me time to work on the door, but how was I supposed to do that? The walls and floor and ceiling were made of resin, and hardened resin can't be affected by the Fire magic of one individual . . . pre:The walls continue closing in: +----------B---------+ | T | | | | U | | | | | | | +----------D---------+ quote:But the walls would not be stopped easily and not for long. I took a shaky breath as my mind raced, trying to estimate time and strength factors. I would have to heat the light metal to a high enough temperature to change its shape, and then I would have to temper it to higher strength—but without water. Whether or not it would work was questionable, especially since I'd also have to cut through the bar on the door. After the horribly tiring day I'd had, would I have enough strength to do it? Maybe being dead would be enough of a triumph over my parents . . . pre:The walls continue closing in: +----------B---------+ | T | | | | U | | | | | | | +----------D---------+ quote:So I turned my attention and talent first to the U of metal. Reaching out with fingers of fire I began to caress it, following its shape and learning the feel of it as it now was. Even as I explored I heated my flames higher and higher, and after a moment I was able to detect the beginning of the change. Everything changes when fire is applied to it, and awareness of those changes is all part of learning your talent. pre:The walls continue closing in: +----------B---------+ | T | | | | U | | | | | | | +----------D---------+ Tamrissa attacks the U with Fire! The U is critically hit! (5/10 hitpoints remaining) quote:By the time I had both arms of the U flattened down to a more or less straight line, the walls were almost up to them and I was close to drowning in sweat. I'd not only been exerting a lot of strength, I hadn't been able to block all of the heat from my fire. Blocking it completely would have meant losing contact and control, so the only real choice I had was to sweat. But I'd slowly been lowering the temperature of my flames and feeling the metal begin to harden again, so it was time to withdraw from that part of it. pre:The walls continue closing in: +----------B---------+ | T | | | | --- | | | | | | | +----------D---------+ Tamrissa attacks the U with Fire! The U takes 2 points of damage. (3/10 hitpoints remaining) Tamrissa attacks the U with Fire! The U takes 1 point of damage. (2/10 hitpoints remaining) Tamrissa attacks the U with Fire! The U takes a critical hit! The U is now a flat metal brace! quote:I took a moment to rest then, using the time to check on the position of the walls and judge their rate of speed. They were still almost two feet away from the ends of" my metal brace, and the longer they took to reach it, the cooler—and therefore harder—it would be. What I didn't know was how long the brace would hold, how long it would take me to cut through the bar on the door, and whether or not I was wasting my time. If I'd guessed wrong about what the proper response to the test situation was . . . I'm gonna pause here for a second to point out that while I don't know much about metal working, I'm pretty sure that none of the above made any sense. I feel like Green tried to act out this scene with some cling wrap that was shaped into a U and a hairdryer. I would have thought that trying to melt a U shape (which I still can't figure out if it's suspended in mid air or if the bottom of the U is sitting on the floor) just kind of...doesn't work? In all of the metal working I've seen (other than casting which is not an option here), you need to heat up the metal to its forging temperature where it is malleable enough to be shaped with tools by applying some form of physical pressure. And it kind of takes a while for the metal to cool down. If there are any metal working goons from DIY who happen to be following along, please shed some light. quote:But I couldn't afford to spend effort doubting myself, not when there was so much left to do. I wiped the sweat from my eyes with the back of my right hand and turned to the door, then gave the bar my attention. Four cuts would make removing it effortless, but I might not have the time to make that many. The only thing I could do was start with the two most important cuts, and see how things went when they were done. pre:The walls continue closing in: +----------B---------+ | T | | | |---| | | | | | | +----------D---------+ Tamrissa attacks the bar with Fire! The bar takes 3 points of damage. (7/10 hitpoints remaining) The walls hit the flat metal brace! The flat metal brace blocks the attack (5/5 hitpoints remaining) quote:I used a very light and gentle flame to check on the condition of the brace, and found myself less than encouraged. It was holding for the moment, but the pressure of the advancing walls strained the metal in a way it wasn't going to be able to resist for long. If I didn't have the bar out of the way before it collapsed completely, I'd never get out of there—or pass the test. Tamrissa feeling things through her flames has pretty gross implications for the rest of the series. Also this is a plothole within the same chapter - since she didn't have to run a flame over the U in the first place to feel that it wasn't tempered. quote:That thought made me turn quickly back to what I'd been doing, but before beginning again I realized I couldn't simply ignore the brace. I had to stay aware of its condition, and do whatever might be possible to hold off its final collapse. That meant splitting my attention, something else I'd never done before, but this was obviously a day for firsts. Fear returned briefly as I fought to maintain flame in two places and at two intensities, but then insight came to make the new practice easier. Only a small part of my attention was necessary to simply watch the brace; the rest of it was free to control my active work. pre:The walls continue closing in: +----------B---------+ | T | | | |~~~| | | | | | | +----------D---------+ Tamrissa attacks the bar with Fire! The bar takes 6 points of damage. (3/10 hitpoints remaining) The walls hit the flat metal brace! The flat metal brace takes 3 points of damage. (2/5 hitpoints remaining) The flat metal brace begins warping. quote:For an instant I had no idea what to do, then a crazy idea came. If the lower side of the arms were heated to softness in a couple of places, the arms might buckle downward and counter the upward pressure they were currently under. Since I'd never worked with metal in quite this way before, I had no idea if the plan would succeed. All I could do was try, but at the same time I had to maintain the cutting. The test had now turned into a real race against time, and faltering would certainly mean losing. Tamrissa's "never worked with metal in quite this way before" - so does she just wander around her house melting her silverware or what? quote:By the time I had everything moving properly, I was beyond sweating. The flames on the underside of the brace had to be concentrated almost as narrowly as the flames cutting the bar, but the intensities remained different. If I became confused and altered the intensities it was probable everything would be ruined, so careful concentration became my foremost need. It felt as if I were in two places at the same time, living two different lives as I performed different tasks, but I couldn't think about that. Cutting through that bar was the only thing to consider, the only objective in a narrowed-down world. pre:The walls continue closing in: +----------B---------+ | T | | | |^~^| | | | | | | +----------D---------+ Tamrissa attacks the bar with Fire! Tamrissa attacks the metal brace with Fire! The bar takes 2 points of damage. (1/10 hitpoints remaining) The walls hit the metal brace! The flat metal brace takes 1 point of damage. (1/5 hitpoints remaining) The metal brace crumples. Tamrissa attacks the bar with Fire! The bar takes 1 point of damage. (0/10 hitpoints remaining) The bar is severed at both ends! quote:I actually reached toward the small section of bar with my physical hands, but happily the residual heat was intense enough to stop me a short distance away. I couldn't touch the thing as it was but I had to get it free, and then another ridiculous idea came. Without wasting a moment I took off my shoe, used a heavy fold of my skirt to push the large section of bar on the left as high up as it would go, then beat at the small section in the brace with my shoe heel. pre:The walls continue closing in: +----------b---------+ |T| | | |~| | | | | | | +----------D---------+ Tamrissa attacks the severed bar with her shoe! The severed bar resists the attack. quote:It felt as if I beat at the small section forever before it let itself be knocked out of the way, but a frantic sense of hurry let me keep at it. The metal brace holding the walls apart was in the process of collapsing into a mass of useless tangle, and I had to reach that door release before everything fell apart. Once the small bar section was out of the way I straightened the lefthand section and pulled with all my strength—which at that point wasn't very much at all. But it proved to be enough to move the bar section just out of the way, letting me reach to the small lever that was hopefully all that kept the door closed. I fumbled the lever open, pushed hard against the door— pre:The walls continue closing in: +----------T---------+ || || || || || || +----------D---------+ Tamrissa attacks the severed bar with her shoe! The severed bar falls to the floor. The walls hit the metal brace! Tamrissa opens the door. The metal brace collapses! Tamrissa escapes to the north. quote:—and almost fell sprawling into the hall beyond the door. The door itself had moved so easily once the lever was released ... it was over and I'd gotten out. . . now I could let go . . . Not sure about you guys, but I felt a faint spark of suspense there. I think it was only because I was having fun drawing out my crappy little ASCII depictions, not because of anything the author wrote. quote:"Just rest there, young lady, and drink some of this," a voice came, and suddenly the man from the front room was beside me and holding a cup to my lips. I thought it was water and gulped at it greedily, but it turned out to be more than water. The taste of the drink was sweet, and once it slid down my throat it seemed to spread all through me. Still-tense muscles began to relax, and a small but steady influx of strength began to return to my limbs. Green's flat out stopped trying to foreshadow poorly, in Chapter 11, and gone straight to putting in Blatantly Suspicious Things. quote:"There, that's much better," the man said encouragingly once I'd drained the large cup. "Sit where you are for another moment or two and pull yourself together, and then we'll get you back on your feet." The redundancy in that dialogue tag is killing me. And Green's not done either. quote:finding it impossible not to shudder. "I came here determined to pass your test, but you didn't care. You put my life on the line, then turned your back and walked away." Alright so this explanation really bugs me in multiple ways. As a first time reader, you sit here and you're like, this is stupid. If it's all about incentivizing people not to sandbag on a test, then either: 1) change the incentives so passing is worth their while - carrot or stick or both would work here; and 2) set things up so that they don't know that they're being tested. As a re-reader (if you've made it past...oh, say Book 4), you're thinking is this possibly Green wanting you to realize that this is a dumb reason because any intelligent reader would go, things aren't adding up at this point: all Middles are tested, but there's very few Highs; even assuming a distribution of talent like a pyramid with many Lows, less middles and not a lot of Highs, there should be enough confirmed Highs that their fates are generally known; nobody knows anything about people who test for High; ergo, High talents are being kidnapped and being enslaved in an army. I said earlier in Chapter 4 that I felt like Green tried to write a mystery plot and just didn't do it well, at all. This is one of the instances where it becomes pretty apparent. quote:"And if their best isn't good enough, they die," I summed up, no longer looking at him. "I can understand your need, but I hope you'll forgive me for not having much sympathy with it. When can I go home?" I wonder if Green moonlighted as a technical writer of instruction manuals for a while. There's just sections and sections of these books which all involve exchanges like this where Character A asks Character B what will happen to them, Character B explains the exact steps to Character A and then we have to read Character A going about those exact steps. It's like instead of learning to "show not tell", Green got her wires crossed and went "yep, got it, tell and then show". quote:"At the moment, that's all I can cope with," I muttered, finally feeling enough recovered to look down at myself. My dress was probably ruined beyond repair, part of my hair was flyaway and the rest hung in greasy strands, and the shoe I'd used to hammer at the piece of bar still lay where I'd dropped it, just past the doorway into this hall. Whether or not it was usable, I still meant to wear it home. Looking like a hag was one thing; going half barefoot like some wild woman was quite another. This is so weird. Does this world have a foot fetish or is this supposed to be characterization of Tamrissa as a lily footed lady or a characterization of the setting as a gross dusty typical fantasy town? We've so little specifics about what Gan Garee is like that I have no idea whether we're talking cobblestone roads, stone paved roads or dirt in the streets. Either way, she's going to be chauffeured home, why not go barefoot? It's not like anyone would see, since Tamrissa had to HOLD UP HER DRESS WITH GREAT CONCENTRATION USING TWO HANDS to walk through the testing facility before. quote:"Let's see now if you're able to stand," the man said, straightening to walk to where my shoe lay and bending to retrieve it. "This seems somewhat the worse for wear, but it should still serve to get you home. Dama?" And there's that "I think I'm a hag but I'm really not because I'm so beautiful that it's impossible for me to look ugly" trope. quote:The idea was very depressing, but right now I had too many other things to worry about. He'd said there would be "sessions" and competitions; what did that mean? Did I have enough strength left to stand knowing what it meant? We'll see this guy again (Book 4 spoilers: this is Lord Lanir, the ostensible Seated High in Fire magic) quote:I could feel my cheeks go even more pallid as he closed the door and told the coach driver he could leave. The man had reminded me of what I'd done when I'd been pushed into the testing room, which was strike out with all my talent. Doing that to people was against the law, since most unpleasant situations can be avoided with the use of a good deal less than full strength. If I were charged with being out of control and then convicted, I could end up condemned to the Deep Caverns for the rest of my life. What? You got exactly what you hoped for. quote:Smiling out into the late afternoon streets felt strange, but I felt strange. I'd wanted to pass that test more than anything in the world, and despite a small but intense core of doubt deep inside me, I'd actually done it. Even now that was hard to believe, but the thrill of the realization still felt marvelous. Tamrissa's entire character arc (such that it is) is supposed to be about overcoming self doubt and developing self confidence, basically through mastery of her Fire magic. It doesn't work at all because Green started the character arc at the point where 90% of the inner battle is already done (i.e. she's already put a plan into motion on how to defy her parents) and it's just the execution left. The Fire magic part of it just happens along the way with Tamrissa figuring things out as she goes so it feels unearned. Passing the test for High is meant to be this huge emotional point but since we have no connection to the character and we don't feel her struggle, the resolution just falls flat. quote:The coach took me right to my door up the winding driveway, and only after I'd gotten out did I discover that the driver had already been paid and tipped. Warla met me at the door with wide-eyed concern for my condition, but that changed to a stunned expression when I told her I'd passed. Apparently she hadn't had any more faith in my doing that than my core of doubt had, and it felt wonderful to tell her she'd been wrong. Then I sent her to my bedchamber to fetch a change of clothes, and spoke to the staff about expecting house guests until she returned. Once she had I told her the same, took the clothes, and headed directly for the bath house. quote:There are bath houses all over the city for the use of ordinary people, but those of my late husband's class took pride in never having to use them. Our private bath house stood just beyond the back of the main house in its own little bower, a pretty addition to one side just before the gardens. I'd grown up being used to a private bath house, so it had taken me awhile to understand Gimmis's pride in the one he had. Once I understood that my husband hadn't been raised by an affluent family, I began to understand more than one thing about him. Four paragraphs describing the bath house. I think Tamrissa's bath house has legitimately received more characterization than the main cast. I also can't figure out what Green was going for here in terms of bath house decor. Asian bath houses have a very clear separation between wet areas and dry areas for many reasons, but practical ones first and foremost. Given that the concept of wet and dry areas still applies to modern construction, I'm reasonably certain that it should also apply to fantasy construction. Why the hell would there be padded mats and chairs in there?! quote:The water was delightfully warm as I stepped down into it, kept that way by the efforts of two of the house servants who had minor Fire talents. After submerging completely for a moment I moved to one of the molded areas and sank down into it, letting free a deep sigh as I did so. The water felt marvelous to my tired, aching body, and I thought about spending the entire night right there without moving. If I hadn't been so hungry I would have considered the idea more seriously, but I felt hollow all the way down to my toes. I had only a limited time to soak before dinner would be ready, but coming back again after dinner was always an option . . . Sucks to be the Water talent, it's the magical equivalent of stirring a giant bowl of water your whole shift. At least the Fire talents can take a break once the water is heated, since water is a pretty good heat sink. quote:I floated along, finding the experience delicious—and then I jerked awake at the sound of the door opening! At first I thought it was Gimmis and my heart began to race, but then I remembered that Gimmis was dead. The man who had simply walked in was a stranger, and fear suddenly changed to outrage. Hi Vallant! quote:I almost sputtered in outrage at that, as well as at the way he glanced at me before starting to search for a towel. He was a very large man with long pale-blond hair, light eyes, a deep tan, and broad shoulders. Obviously he was very used to getting his way with women, but this wasn't going to be one of the times he did. I used the opportunity of his back being turned to scramble out of the bath and wrap myself in my towel, and then I turned back to him. What a shame I was too exhausted to do anything but talk . . . Uh, what? The last thing you did before you headed to take a bath was to tell Warla and the staff to expect other successful applicants. Based on your own experience, you should be expecting them all to descend on the bath house. quote:"I didn't break in, I walked in," he countered calmly, having turned back to look at me as he began to unbutton his shirt. "And if you own this house, I was told you would be expectin' me. I'm Vallant Ro, here in this accursed town to test for somethin' I never wanted. If you dislike havin' me here, you can thank the fools in our government for my presence. If not for them, I'd already be on my way back home." Here we go. quote:I stared at him openmouthed for a moment, suddenly so furious that it was a good thing I'd have trouble reaching fire now. I'd had to go through hell because of people like him, people who didn't want to test for High and therefore had to be forced into doing their best! I grew so furious that I barely noticed he now stood bare-chested, his body as well-tanned as his face. Tamrissa deciding to blame individuals who annoy her, rather than the messed up system and those in power. quote:I did notice, however, when he reached to his trousers and began to open them without hesitation. I lost most of what I'd meant to say, and could only turn quickly to face the wall. This is a stupid plothole. Culture informs and drives design. Whatever a society's bathing customs are, would naturally be reflected in how a bath house is designed. In Japan, mixed bathing was traditional until the Meiji Restoration banned it. These days, most bath houses in Japan are built into separate male and female baths. Since there is ONE bath house with ONE entrance only, this would imply that the bathing customs in Gan Garee (if not the Empire at large) is mixed by default - in which case Vallant's not being uncivilized here. That said, Tamrissa's specifically noticed that he's looked at her twice and based on what we've seen in his POVs, these looks would be creepy as hell. Add in being freshly widowed off the back of two years of domestic violence and sexual abuse, Tamrissa's got plenty of reasons to be all jumpy about the situation. My biggest problem with this entire scene is that Green doesn't use any of these actually legitimate reasons to inform Tamrissa's actions, thoughts or dialogue. quote:But once outside, I paused to remove the "occupied" sign from the door. If this Vallant Ro didn't mind intruding on me, he shouldn't mind having someone else doing the same to him. And his presence guaranteed the other applicants couldn't be far behind, hopefully with one among them who was as rude and intrusive as Ro himself! What are you, eight years old? Come on, that's just petty. Summary: Day 1 Tamrissa escapes being crushed alive by melting and cutting pieces of metal. Her house is officially deemed an official residence when she passes. A creepy dude gives her "water" to drink. She goes home and falls asleep in the bath house. Vallant wakes her up when he walks in unexpectedly. They exchange angry and she leaves. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 12 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 10 COACH RIDES: 5 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 9 "CLIFFHANGERS": 7 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 7 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 1 BATH SCENES: 1 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: Melt all 5500 words of this chapter into a pile of slag. Edit: forgot to talk about the "fixes". Leng fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Aug 27, 2020 |
# ? Aug 24, 2020 17:08 |
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quote:CHAPTER TWELVE I can't get over how dumb the internal monologues are. Green seems to be going for a Jane Austen style kind of humour and she fails so badly at it every single time. quote:Vallant looked around for a third time, distantly finding it strange that the fire concerned him less than the confined space of the room. That had to be because holding off the fire was fractionally easier, even if it wasn't possible to put it out completely. He'd hung a curtain of light moisture all around himself not far from the inner ring of flames, and so far the flames hadn't gone past it. It's like this chapter exists to erase any positive emotion I had in Chapter 10 when we saw Vallant actually behave like the man of action he should be as a captain of a large trading vessel. quote:Vallant briefly cursed his stupidity under his breath, at last understanding one of the reasons his recent guide had appeared at the window-door. That was Vallant's way out, but how was he supposed to reach it? He'd never managed to learn to fly like a bird, although people claimed he swam like a fish . . . I would be enormously entertained if Vallant passes the test by filling the entire room with water and swimming his way out. quote:And of course that was it. Water, the element of his talent, what he was there to be tested in. In order to save himself he'd have to use his talent, an act he'd intended to refrain from. This time it was the government he cursed under his breath, hating the way they'd manipulated him into doing his best. It wasn't fair, and he meant to tell them so as soon as he was out of there. You were explicitly told that you'd be sent to test for High practitioner. How did you think you were going to get away with not using your talent at all? It's a practical exam, not a theoretical one. They weren't exactly going to give you a piece of paper and ask you to write down your answers about how to use Water magic. Another issue I have is with all these protagonists whining about things not being fair. They all do it in a way that makes them sound like they're five years old. Green doesn't seem to know how to write the difference between someone not being a pushover and a whiner. quote:But first he had to get out, which wouldn't be easy. That large amount of water he could sense somewhere nearby wasn't large enough to flood the room and float him up to the door, at the same time quenching those flames. It would have to be used differently, but how? How could that large but limited amount of water get him out of here? This is such a stupid way to plug a plothole. Vallant isn't limited to water that exists in liquid form and he has quite the range. In Chapter 5, we saw him condense moisture out of the air and pull it down from the clouds. The fact that he's pulling liquid water from a nearby store (room? tank? who knows?) into what seems to be a closed room implies that this room is not sealed. I'm picturing Vallant standing inside a ring of fire with water droplets steadily streaming inside the room, kind of like how water was dripping into the Titanic: Since the room isn't sealed, he should actually be able to flood the room, he's just got to pull moisture out of the air from everywhere in the building! But that would mean Vallant gets to complete the test in a way that is different and unique to his element, so we can't have that. quote:Vallant noticed that he was sweating harder, and not just from his terror at being looked in such a small room. That ring of flames had somehow moved past his curtain of water, and now burned that much closer to him. It was circling tighter and tighter, intent on surrounding and smothering him as well as burning . . . There's like five redundant statements in that paragraph alone. quote:Once again Vallant had to fight blind panic, and this time pulling out of it was harder. The thought of being enclosed by the fire really was harder to deal with than being burned by it, but putting out one section of it and escaping the circle wasn't likely to help. It was logical to expect the fire to follow wherever he went, and would undoubtedly trap him against the wall if necessary. He had to get out of that room to escape the double trap, and he had to use his Water magic to do it. But how . . . ? How severe is Vallant's claustrophobia exactly? Green writes him as if he has severe claustrophobia but this is a really unrealistic depiction if that's the case. Not surprising I guess, given the time period in which this was written. quote:He began to wipe the sweat from his face again, wishing the room could be cooler, and just that easily he had his answer. Ice, he would have to form ice from the water, and that way he'd be able to reach the window door. But with most of the room's heat coming from that fire, how was he supposed to form and maintain ice? Curse those codding bureaucrats! That was why they threatened him with fire! To make forming ice that much harder! "Codding"? So we are in 17th century fantasy Britain? quote:Vallant briefly considered clamping down on his temper, then dismissed the idea with a snarl. He needed every advantage he could get, and anger—directed anger—often increased his strength. And took his attention from other things, like a crippling fear. He just had to stay angry long enough to get the job done, which would be hard enough even that way. Ice, in all that heat , . . It's so great how we'll be getting an entire romance subplot about the woman with rage issues and the man with anger issues failing to get together for five books. quote:But it could be done in a small way, so it ought to be possible on a large scale with enough strength behind the effort. First he would have to establish some protection from those flames, and then he could start building his ice bridge. But what shape should it be in? And did he really want a bridge . . . ? Does Green mean this: Or this: This is hella confusing because the first one doesn't make any sense since it wouldn't actually get Vallant up higher to the exit since the actual part of the bridge he would traverse is flat, and while second one is plausible - since a) it is actually raised up higher from the deck and b) it would be in character for Vallant the sailor to mean a ship's bridge - it's also a ridiculous amount of ice to create in a room that's on fire, to the point where flooding the room to put out the fire would honestly be a lot easier. quote:It would have been nice if Vallant could have spent a while considering those questions, but he simply didn't have the time. Everything including his own mind pushed at him to hurry, but he had to hurry cautiously. A serious mistake would mean needing to start all over again, and by then the flames would be right on top of him . . . I know Green's putting these constant reminders in here in an attempt to make this chapter feel fast-paced and intense, but all it does is drag down the action. It's like she doesn't have any idea what a person's thought process is like in a high stakes time sensitive situation. If she had simply used short sentences and cut paragraphs like this one, that alone would make a big difference. quote:Reaching out to every bit of moisture in the air, Vallant caused a fairly heavy cascade to form over the arc of fire that was in the way of where he needed to put his ice platform. And platform was what it would have to be, since there might not be enough water—or time—for anything more involved. And if things worked properly, he'd even bypass the need to climb up to that platform. Ok, creating a waterfall by rapidly condensing moisture out of the air is pretty cool. I'm guessing that's how he's doing it because there's no other way to move the water from the nearby source since he's in an enclosed room, in which case Vallant works faster than the fastest dehumidifier on the market. And also defies the laws of physics because I'm pretty sure he'd be stripping the air of the available moisture faster than the "large but limited amount of water" can evaporate AND for the air from where that water source is to circulate into Vallant's enclosed but unsealed testing room. But Vallant is about to do something cool-er. quote:But first he had to move around behind that cascade, closer to the wall where the window-door was. Everyone knew that fire melted ice without needing to think about it, but it took some people a moment to realize that pouring water did the same. He would have to protect his ice platform from both things, as well as maintain the cascade while he built the ice. I feel incredibly patronized by this paragraph. quote:Just thinking about it was a waste of time and strength, not to mention taking the edge off his anger by increasing his fear. He'd never had to do so much with his talent before, but worrying about whether or not he could would just lessen his chances. For that reason he quickly reached to the large supply of water, established a bridge to the room he stood in, and began bringing the water through. As soon as it reached him he added frozen chips from way up in the sky, which froze the rest of what it touched. Err...what now? Is this a magical bridge? Because it's clearly neither a nautical bridge or a land lubber bridge. Does Vallant's Water magic defy the space time continuum by creating a tiny wormhole to a nearby water source that he doesn't even need to see to be able to do this? And he's STILL able to reach "frozen chips from way up in the sky" - presumably meaning the ice crystals that exist in cirrus clouds. How far is his range exactly? What if it's a sunny day and there are no clouds in the immediate vicinity? quote:And the ice began to form under his feet, or more precisely, under his shoes. He would have been happier about his balance—if more uncomfortable—if he were barefoot, but his body heat would make the problem a lot harder to handle. He'd keep one hand on the wall he built his platform in front of, and try to maintain his balance that way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE Now if Vallant can teleport ice from like 20,000 feet/6 kms away in the sky to underneath his feet to create his own personal ice elevator, will Lorand and Rion be able do something similar? We'll soon find out in Chapters 13 and 14! quote:It took a number of very difficult minutes, but his ice platform finally brought him high enough to reach the window-door. He reached out to it gingerly with his free hand, briefly afraid that it would refuse to open, but the wood pushed back out of his way with very little effort. The only problem that left was sight of the space behind it, an area only a little larger than his body. There was a much wider opening beyond the very cramped area, but in order to reach it he would have to go through that tiny, airless, confining space . . . Any goons with experience in claustrophobia here able to comment on how realistic this depiction is? It reads to me like an unresearched take. quote:Vallant lowered himself to the meager grass on his left side, concentrating on nothing but breathing and trying to gather some small amount of strength. If for nothing else he'd need it eventually to stand up, and right now he felt completely emptied. He'd also closed his eyes again, but the sound of footsteps made him open them quickly. The man who had been in the outer room of this building now walked toward him, holding a cup of something. In case you missed the blatantly obvious in Tamrissa's, this is Not Water and is Significant. But don't worry if you miss it here, we'll see it three more times! quote:"Thank you for that, at least," he allowed, less of an edge to his tone than he'd wanted it to have. "Now that your game is over, you can just point me to the nearest coach stop. I'm goin' home whether you like it or not." Go on Vallant, call his bluff! Granted, you're completely tapped out right now so it wouldn't be much of a fight. Book Four spoilers: There are literally no official High practitioners around in Gan Garee - anyone who actually is a High was enslaved in the armies invading Astinda and Gracely; those who haven't are being kept around as cannon fodder for the competitions. quote:Vallant stared at the man, trying to read the truth under the words the way he did with the merchants he dealt with, but the effort was useless. Either the man was a most accomplished liar, or everything he'd said was the truth. Not that it really mattered. Even if their "punishment" had been something he could bear, he still couldn't have allowed himself to run that far afoul of the law. He had his family to think of and the possibility of ruining the excellent reputation they'd always enjoyed, which meant he was well and truly trapped. I think Green subscribes to the "if we didn't see it on screen, it didn't happen" school of thought. The prohibition on discussing the tests with other people who have already passed them is stupid. The people you don't want knowing about the nature of the tests is anyone who hasn't taken them. And to be honest, does it really matter if it did get out to the public? There are laws in the Empire saying that all Middles have to test, and fleeing/avoiding the tests is punishable by five years of hard labor (and the implication is most people are unlikely to survive that long). As far as the average person is concerned, it's basically a death sentence either way - so what does it matter if everybody knows? I'd argue that this whole story would be WAY MORE INTERESTING if this was known in advance. Green's going to be dealing with mind control, enslavement, etc for most of the series anyway, and it would be way more interesting to explore how a group lacking power enslaves a group with power. Not to mention it would cut through about 2-3 books' worth of "let's figure out the sinister plans" part of the main plot. quote:Vallant could also hear the creak of wheels and springs accompanied by the clip-clop of hooves, which meant the coach was undoubtedly on the outer side of the building, but Vallant had had more than enough of that place. The assertive man of action is now back. It irks me that Green's given Vallant this not-flaw of claustrophobia, because he's plenty flawed already given what an rear end in a top hat he is to women. The claustrophobia is a plot-convenient device (for very bad reasons) and Vallant will never have to deal with it in any meaningful way (Book 5 spoilers: Jovvi basically messes around with Vallant's memories right before the final confrontation with the antagonists for the first series. She does the same thing for Lorand's fear of burn out. Neither fears ever come up again in the sequel series.). quote:By the time Vallant circled the building, the man he'd spoken to waited beside the coach with his seabag. Vallant took it silently with a curt nod and entered the coach, which at this point looked more spacious than confining. Sitting down also felt incredibly good, especially when the coach began to move. He was finally on his way out of that place, even though it wasn't to go home. Six chapters after our first protagonist arrives in the capitol, we finally get a description of the city in passing - and it's weird and bland. How fast is this coach going (or alternatively, how small is this city?) if it's not a long trip and Vallant still passes through several neighborhoods? The blandness comes from the fact that Green always writes at the highest level in the pyramid of abstraction (here's Sanderson talking about this concept), which is just so lazy. Descriptions like "official-looking" and "surprisingly large houses with drives" are so abstract that it completely relies on the reader to picture the details of this world. Also this proves my point from Chapter 5: Vallant's rich and powerful merchant "daddy" does have a massive house in town but Vallant chooses to hire room(s) in a tavern. What a missed opportunity for characterization. quote:When the coach pulled up at the front of the house, a young woman stepped out timidly to meet it. There was only a single step between the drive and the approach to the house, and the fact that Vallant noticed the one step said quite a lot about the woman. She was a plain little thing in a plain dress of gray, medium brown hair and eyes doing nothing to add to her attractiveness. Actually it was her very obvious timidity that put Vallant off most, but he still gave her his best smile once he'd gotten out of the coach. This thing about not having to pay or tip the coach driver will again come up five times. It is not remotely interesting and doesn't add anything to the story. quote:"Apparently I'm to be all yours without delay," he said with another smile. "Are you the owner of this lovely house?" Extremely odd for Vallant to say this; he's a rich kid who grew up in a house full of servants. He should know that rich people don't come out to greet new arrivals. Unless he's just being flirty here which...ugh. quote:"Oh, my, no," the girl said with a timid and embarrassed laugh, now looking even younger than she had. "This is the house of Dama Tamrissa Domon, and I'm Warla, her companion. We've been told to expect you, Captain Ro, and your room is ready. If you'll follow me?" If only Green would take the hint to show rather than tell! quote:"Your room is this way, Captain." Warla's gentle reminder that he'd slowed almost to a stop pulled Vallant away from the unkind assessment he'd been in the midst of. The girl waited at the foot of the very wide staircase, but she began to climb it as soon as it was obvious that he was ready to follow again. Vallant should get together with Jovvi instead of Tamrissa. He's a rich kid who likes leering at women and she's a gold digger accustomed to men leering at her - it's a match sent by the Highest Aspect! quote:"Oh, but the dom is gone," Warla told him over her shoulder with more upset than the statement called for. "He's dead, I mean, and Tamrissa lives here alone now. Or at least she used to be alone." Warla just casually referring to her boss by name to a stranger, even though we saw that they have a very proper and formal relationship in Chapter 4. quote:It sounded to Vallant as if the girl had swallowed a giggle at the end of her comment, which made him sigh. So his hostess was a widow, probably an older lady who had no children, and that was why she'd offered her house as a residence. And Warla seemed to expect that her employer would take an interest in him, which wasn't the best of news. Back home a number of the older ladies had seemed to declare open season on him and his brothers, and when one of his brothers had decided to accommodate them, the young fool had barely escaped with all his parts intact. Dude resolved in Chapter 5 that he was sick of women and concluded if he needed to get his rocks off, he'd find courtesans. You'd think that a wealthy cougar would be exactly what he's looking for, but since we're talking about Vallant the rear end in a top hat he probably thinks women have a short shelf life. quote:"With me around, the dama will probably still think she's alone," Vallant commented carefully. "I'm under a vow for as long as I stay away from home, and I'm sure you know how things like that go. I've had cause to regret the vow, but there's no getting out of it now." Vallant is a liar for no good reason - he could have just...not responded? quote:At the top of the staircase Warla led him to the left, and then left again into the first room. Vallant was relieved to see an entire wall of windows opposite the door, and that let him stroll inside after Warla. Tamrissa is 19, referred to herself as "getting on in years" and was married to a sadist for two years. I don't know how they define "women" in this world but I suppose if we go by Eldra, then I guess they come of age at 15. That's a pretty short shelf life. quote:Vallant took his coat off and dropped it to the floor, knowing it needed cleaning as much as his cap and the rest of his clothes. After his bath he'd have a servant see to all of it, but first he had to see to himself. He carried his change of clothes downstairs, found a servant and asked the way to the bath house, then followed directions to the back garden. Every room in that house seemed to have been furnished with more money than taste, so Vallant had really high hopes for the bath house. Why didn't you knock and yell out first? quote:only to discover that the occupant of the bath house hadn't died, and certainly not of old age. The way the girl jumped said she'd probably fallen asleep in the water, and before her arms came up to cover her Vallant could see that she certainly had what to cover. A ripely rounded body despite the slender frame, long, shapely legs easily visible through the clear water, light hair darkened now from being wet, a face of unexpected and exceptional beauty. High yet gentle cheekbones, a straight and delicate nose, ripely full lips , . . Hadn't he already used that word "ripe" in connection with her? He wasn't sure any longer, not with those gorgeous violet eyes there to fall into . . . Remember Tamrissa's amateur porn self description? We actually didn't need that, because we get an actual porn description from Vallant, right here. quote:"Who are you and what are you doing here?" the vision suddenly demanded, pulling Vallant back from the edge of stopping to stare. What edge? You fell off that cliff already! quote:"No, never mind about answering that. Just get out of here!" I assume Vallant means using his break up to go from to quickly, but this reads weirdly, particularly the temporary condition bit. Male goons?? quote:"Not until I've had my share of that water," he answered her demand that he leave, spotting the towel cabinet and starting for it. "I feel singed from head to foot, not to mention broken and stomped on and covered in old sweat. I need that bath, but don't let me hurry you. Stay as long as you like." quote:So he said, "I didn't break in, I walked in," at the same time turning to look at her and beginning to remove his shirt. "And if you own this house, I was told you'd be expectin' me. I'm Vallant Ro, here in this accursed town to test for somethin' I never wanted. If you dislike havin' me here, you can thank the fools in our government for my presence. If not for them, I'd already be on my way back home." Are there laws against the use of magic or not? On the one hand, we get all this info dumping about laws that are strictly enforced, then we get crap like this which seems like the use of magic is just like using another limb. I'm getting whiplash from chapter to chapter. quote:"I'm going to speak to someone about having you put elsewhere," she announced in a voice that trembled slightly. She'd also turned to the wall with supposed ladylike modesty when he began to take off the rest of his clothes, probably trying to impress him with the gesture. Uh, no. I don't care how impressive you think Little Captain Ro is, unsolicited dick waving from a stranger is generally unwanted, especially when that stranger wandered in uninvited. quote:"You haven't the first idea about civilized behavior, and I refuse to have you in my house a moment longer than absolutely necessary. And if they can't find another place for you, I hope you'll have to sleep in the street!" Hello toxic masculinity! quote:But falling asleep proved to be anything but beyond him. With his eyes closed Vallant simply drifted off, floating away to a world where there were no problems. He stood again on the deck of the Sea Queen, the wind playing in his hair, gleaming water all around and as far as the eye could see. He was just about to turn to his crew and give the necessary orders, when someone dropped a belaying pin— Why didn't you knock earlier? quote:"There was no sign on the door, but common is certainly the proper word," the fop returned in a baritone so pettish that Vallant expected the man to start fluttering a silk hankie. "Your courtesy is very common, my man, but I haven't the strength to argue with you. Nor do I intend to share that bath. I'm accustomed to bathing alone as a gentleman should, so you will take yourself out of there at once." Vallant: "bro, do u even lift?" quote:The fop colored at the very clear implication that he'd never try to throw Vallant out by himself, but he wasn't stupid enough to deny the claim. Instead he stiffened in insult, then straightened to his full height. Every character only has one gear and therefore one predominant adverb. Tamrissa demands, Vallant drawls and Clarion does everything stiffly. quote:"I think I've been blind as well as insensitive," Vallant said with sudden insight, sitting up in the molded part of the bath bottom. If only you possessed this kind of insight whenever you interact with a woman. quote:"You're an applicant just the way I am, and you're too tired because you just passed your test. What did they do to force you to participate?" We're getting a recap of things we've already seen. And we'll get to see THIS EXACT SAME CONVERSATION AGAIN in the next chapter. quote:"Lord Clarion Mardimil, Air magic," the man grudged, apparently finding the conversation distasteful but necessary. "And yes, let us indeed compare notes later. Getting free of this horror would be worth any price. A pity it can't be accomplished with gold." This is probably the best dialogue exchange in the book so far. quote:"There has to be an answer," Vallant said, shaking his head stubbornly against the suggestion that there wasn't. "High practitioners are supposed to be willin' to do the job, so those who are unwillin' have to be let go at some point. That's the point we need, as long as it isn't one that involves dyin'. . ." Clarion: "check out my guns, abs and rock hard butt" quote:"We'll speak again later," Vallant said when he'd finished dressing, gathering up his dirty clothing but leaving the towel for the servants to see to. "Enjoy your bath." Another redundant paragraph. quote:Clarion made a sound of some sort that might have been agreement, so Vallant took it like that and simply left. If the man needed to relax as badly as he had, leaving him alone was the most considerate thing he could do. And Vallant meant to be very considerate to someone who apparently had access to the Blending. If they came up with the right thing to say, that access might well get the two of them out of that waking nightmare. We will find out later that Hallina Mardimil is related to three out of five members of the Seated Blending. This should be an advantage that the main characters pursue! Unfortunately, because none of the characters are actually skilled political players, and it would require writing a different plot instead of copy/pasting the same chapter and changing the names and aspects, Green just writes in a crappy justification for why it won't work and it gets left at that. quote:But in the meanwhile, Vallant trudged back to the main house wondering how long it would be before dinner was ready. He was hungry enough to eat a shark, teeth, fin and all. And maybe he'd even see that girl again. She was probably one of the servants, and would be embarrassed at the need to serve him. He'd let her squirm for a while, thinking he might have her fired, but then he'd . . . let's see, just what would he most enjoy doing to—or with— her ... ? Obligatory rear end in a top hat. Summary: Day 1 Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 12 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 12 COACH RIDES: 6 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 9 "CLIFFHANGERS": 7 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 7 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 1 BATH SCENES: 2 (yeah, I'm gonna count this twice) WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 2 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: This chapter should be put on ice and forgotten forever. The main cast is comprised of characters who are superficially different but are pretty much the same cardboard cut out underneath the differences. There's no sense of the various characters having different strengths that complement each other. You could condense Tamrissa/Jovvi into one female character and Lorand/Clarion/Vallant into one male character and the only thing that would break in the main story line is the FIVE FIVE FIVE FIVE FIVE aspect of things. Even at the point when the women and men get together to do things separately, both groups end up thinking and doing the same damned things, so you could make a strong argument for rolling all five protagonists together into a single protagonist. Leng fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Aug 27, 2020 |
# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:13 |
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The bathhouse scenes are one of the most blatantly lazy sequences in the whole series. It's easy to describe the rest of this book as copy/paste when all the characters go through nearly identical trials, but this is literal copy paste where we see the same dialogue twice from two perspectives. I'll admit that I didn't see the foreshadowing with the cups of water the first time I read the book. I actually kind of like it, to be honest. I don't remember if we get to see what happened during the "lost time" while they were under the influence of Puredan or if we're just told about it, but it would make a good flashback scene. Maybe a better flashback in a visual medium though. It's hard to think of how to fix this book because the repetition is really baked into the core concept. Ripping out four chapters and making one stand on its own to represent the others would ruin the symmetry of the viewpoints, and Green is really committed to giving them all equal screen time. So if you're going to break that symmetry then maybe the right move is to just really lean into it and tell the story from a single point of view. That being said, adding another viewpoint would also be a way to fix the bathhouse chapters. Tell it from Warla's perspective as she greets everyone and overhears confrontations within the bathhouse. We don't need to eavesdrop on every line of dialogue since most of it adds nothing to the characterization or plot. I appreciated the ASCII recap, by the way. And that's a nice dress.
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# ? Aug 26, 2020 17:36 |
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Leng posted:so you could make a strong argument for rolling all five protagonists together into a single protagonist. Cue Captain Planet theme song...
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# ? Aug 26, 2020 17:43 |
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wizzardstaff posted:The bathhouse scenes are one of the most blatantly lazy sequences in the whole series. It's easy to describe the rest of this book as copy/paste when all the characters go through nearly identical trials, but this is literal copy paste where we see the same dialogue twice from two perspectives. It's a gimmick that would work better if you actually had two strong opposing characters. I honestly really liked it when LE Modesitt Jr wrote The Magic Engineer from Dorrin's perspective, and then we got to see the other side of the story from Cerryl in The White Order and Colors of Chaos. Will Wight has also done this with his Elder Empire series which is made up of two parallel trilogies from opposing sides of the story. In both of these cases, we got authors who established strong characters who are largely doing their own thing independently of each other for most of the story. The scenes they share are generally at key turning points in the overall plot, so seeing the other side's perspective adds to the overall appreciation of the nuances in the conflict. And we get these scenes in SEPARATELY PUBLISHED BOOKS, not back to back to each other (though some fans of both series do rereads in parallel for fun). wizzardstaff posted:I'll admit that I didn't see the foreshadowing with the cups of water the first time I read the book. I actually kind of like it, to be honest. I don't remember if we get to see what happened during the "lost time" while they were under the influence of Puredan or if we're just told about it, but it would make a good flashback scene. Maybe a better flashback in a visual medium though. Nope, we never actually see the list time, though we get a scene with them figuring it out due to how quickly the coaches came around. We do get to see Naran triggering the command phrase on Rion and him having no sense of the passage of time, and we see it again when Vallant does the same on Holter. wizzardstaff posted:It's hard to think of how to fix this book because the repetition is really baked into the core concept. Ripping out four chapters and making one stand on its own to represent the others would ruin the symmetry of the viewpoints, and Green is really committed to giving them all equal screen time. The idea of symmetry is an interesting one, but I think Green's execution of it is just so lazy. She only goes so far as to do surface level symmetry with plot beats. The way Sanderson executes the same concept in Stormlight Archive is on another plane entirely: you have the physical geography (Roshar is a super continent shaped like the Julia set), in world writing, how places and people are named, entire artforms (keteks) as well as characters whose narrative arcs are in opposing symmetry (see Dalinar and Taravangian, or Kaladin and Moash), and each book itself being structured as a ketek. wizzardstaff posted:So if you're going to break that symmetry then maybe the right move is to just really lean into it and tell the story from a single point of view. Yep, the options I see are: 1. Pick one POV character and stick with them throughout 1A. As above, but sprinkle in other POVs occasionally to mix things up. 2. Rotate through all the main cast as POV characters, but give each of them a distinct self contained character arc within all of their POV chapters, and tie each of those character arcs to key points in the overall story arc so their character grown actually drives the overall plot A Warla POV could actually work quite well as a Prologue, particularly given Book 5 reveals. There's a question of whether we even need to see the tests for High, since the main plot is all about competitions and there's still a bunch of additional qualifying round that happen after that first test. That's plenty of time to explain how magic works, plus the actual competition itself. wizzardstaff posted:I appreciated the ASCII recap, by the way. And that's a nice dress. Thanks!
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# ? Aug 27, 2020 05:08 |
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I think there's a great argument for skipping these tests entirely. Not even having them offscreen, just removing them as a worldbuilding/plot point altogether. They've got lots of problems: - The tests are supposed to demonstrate to the reader that each character is very powerful and can use magic to solve problems better than others, but we already saw this with the fireball attacks and will see it again during later competitions. - The "deadly threat" has all the suspense and tension of a syndicated Saturday morning cartoon because of the inherent plot armor of the books' premise. (Not to mention it loses its punch after several repetitions.) - The mystery of why all potential Highs have to go through this harrowing life-and-death test is so hackneyed. - And of course they're poorly written and repetitive but it's unfair to single out these specific chapters for that. I say just have them go straight to Tamrissa's house on arrival in the city and pick up some characterization based on the different ways they greet Warla. Hell, that could be the opening chapter of the book. Ditch everything up to this point and reveal everyone's motivations/backstory as we get to know the characters.
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# ? Aug 27, 2020 05:34 |
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It will create an interesting problem in that much of what happens in the rest of Book 1 is also redundant. Arguably, you could start in the middle of Book 2 and it'd still be fine. Essentially what Green did was mash up a tournament plot with a mystery plot and a rebellion plot, executing all three pretty badly. It's hilarious, because the original Hunger Games trilogy takes the same concepts (minus the magic and add the technology), and executes it SO MUCH BETTER. Just taking the tournament plotline alone and comparing it to say, Goblet of Fire or Will Wight's Uncrowned (which had its own flaws so I should really come back and do this comparison again once Wintersteel comes out and look at it together), we can see Green fails to do the most basic things:
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# ? Aug 27, 2020 12:16 |
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quote:CHAPTER THIRTEEN Clarion's test is confusing for many reasons. Air is getting sucked out of the room - presumably if he does nothing, he will end up being inside a vacuum and therefore die from asphyxiation, assuming the room is strong enough to not implode due to the differential in air pressure. But if he can grab air molecules with his talent, then...why would you bother sealing off all the holes? Why wouldn't you just grab all the air molecules and hug them close with your talent like your precioussessses? Is it because grabbing air molecules is like herding lots of microscopically sized cats? quote:But remembering still wasn't getting him out of there. The nothing he had to stand on was obviously supposed to be air, but simply thickening it enough to hold him wasn't the entire problem. He also had to keep the air from being drawn out of the room, as well as hold it near him so that he might breathe. Any one or two of those things might be managed, but all three? He could feel the strength draining from him by the moment, so even two tasks might soon be beyond him. What was he to do? In case you forgot that Clarion has never done anything independently in his life. I don't know what being a noble in fantasy 17th century Britain is like, but presumably you did not have servants assist you with going to the bathroom when you're an able young man. quote:Clarion straightened to his full height, and began by examining the matter logically. He still had the strength to do two of the tasks necessary to free himself, so the obvious first question was which of the three actions were basically unnecessary? He couldn't very well dispense with breathing, and if he released the thickened air in front of the holes, he'd not only have nothing to breathe, but also nothing to work with. I wonder if Green included this in response to wizzardstaff's comment. "What do you mean I refuse to let my characters engage in original solutions? Here try this one! Clarion's going to go back through his ORIGINAL DOOR instead of the exit everybody else takes because he THINKS DIFFERENTLY thanks to his unique isolated childhood of abuse, take that critics!" quote:Happily the stool proved to be fairly light, so he would have little trouble pushing it into the doorway with his talent once the door was open. Clarion placed it directly against the wall a good number of feet to the left of the door, where it would hopefully be out of the direct line of his efforts. Those efforts would be at maximum strength, and anything with less than significant weight would certainly be caught up— I don't understand why these two paragraphs are broken up like this. There is no break in actual thought. quote:Pushing away all doubts and fears, Clarion gathered up every bit of air in the room and forced it together in front of the door. That left him able to breathe from the edge of the mass, while at the same time left nothing that could leak out of the now-unblocked holes. He forced the mass harder and harder against the door, compressing it so tightly that he soon withdrew his breathing supply. When that happened he quickly released the mass with a snap, also pulling with every ounce of his talent's strength. Clarion acting like a giant...toilet plunger I guess? quote:The returning door tried to knock the stool out of its way, but Clarion had anticipated that and used his talent to keep the stool in place. If the door closed he'd have to start all over again, but this time with most of his strength already spent. Clarion swiped at the sweat on his face with the sleeve of his coat, forced himself into motion, and reached the door as quickly as possible. Opening it wide again would normally have taken very little effort, but right now Clarion could only just get it done. Then he staggered out into the hall and to the wall opposite the door, where he let himself fall slowly to a seated posture on the floor. I think that's a record. Test done and over with in less than 1300 words! quote:Clarion spent a few moments simply breathing, the only effort that wasn't currently beyond him. Then he heard approaching footsteps, and looked up to see the man from the outside room coming over with a cup in his hand. Here's the handwaving. Which end of Book 2/early Book 3 spoilers is a lie, since the Seated Blending are only figurehead Middles who don't hold any real power in the Empire and wouldn't have been able to pass the first test. quote:"And what penalties are those?" Clarion asked, wondering how he could have missed the fact that the Blending had begun by passing these very same tests. It must have been because Mother had been so certain she'd be able to get him excused. It had obviously been wishful thinking on her part, with nothing of the clear logic she usually demanded from him . . . This would be a great bit of cultural world building, except it doesn't actually stack up since Green has done nothing to show us how High talents work to benefit anyone in the Empire. Book 4 spoilers enslavement in the army doesn't count since a) it's enslavement and b) pretty sure invading neighboring nations are not to the benefit of most people in the Empire. quote:"But that would apply only to someone who passed the first test and refused to continue. How much will it cost me in gold for the records to show that I failed? Just name the figure, my man, and you'll have it within two days." There are things called false identities, you know. Well, to be fair, maybe Clarion doesn't know, given his upbringing. We'll find out later that he read a lot of romance novels growing up though - surely at least one or two of them mentioned the concept of mistaken identity or false identities? I am very disappointed that more of the romance novel reading doesn't translate through to his character, because it would be hilarious. quote:"We've arranged accommodations for you with someone who volunteered their house as a residence," the man said after a moment, taking Clarion's silence for the admission of defeat that it was. "Your place there will be paid for by us, but your meals and other requirements will need to be seen to by you. After the sessions will come the competitions, and if you qualify for those you will have the opportunity to earn bonuses in gold. You will be given a short time to rest, but the first of the sessions will be scheduled in just a few days. Please remember that you're not to discuss the details of this test with anyone, a caution that will have been given to the others at the house as well. Now let's see if your coach has arrived." This is why Clarion is shredded - he's been building his own home gym with Air magic since he was a kid and constantly works out because he has no friends. quote:Clarion followed the man back out the front door of the building, to find that a coach was indeed waiting. His trunk was also stowed in the boot and secured firmly, so all Clarion had to do was climb into the coach. He did so without showing the aches the action caused him, and looked out the window once he was seated and the door had been closed behind him. Spoilers: they won't send the hat and Clarion doesn't do anything about it. I wish Green would have written that because I would have been more entertained by his side quest to track down the ridiculous hat than by what he eventually ends up doing. quote:and then the coach had begun to move away from that outrageous place. If Clarion hadn't been so tired, he might have ordered the driver to wait while he made a sharp comment or two about the building man's misplaced sense of humor. As it was he simply leaned back in the seat with a grunt, wishing local public coaches were better upholstered. It wasn't nearly as uncomfortable as the long distance coach had been, but discomfort came in too many degrees for that difference to be at all uplifting. Book 2 spoilers: we will see the noble antagonists do their thing as well. Based on the information we get from their POVs, Clarion's childhood is REALLY WEIRD because it seems he was excluded not just from social events but also magically by the Guild and Air magic instructors. quote:"But one day I'll see the score evened," Clarion murmured as they approached the house, giving himself a solemn oath. "At the moment it's their turn to win, but one day the turn will be mine. And when that happens , . ." We will also see the Mardimill household a few times later in these books. There are definitely female servants on Hallina Mardimill's staff. Either this is a continuity error or subtle characterization from Green. I'm tempted to bet on continuity error based on her track record so far. quote:"Perhaps it would be best if I discussed the matter with your mistress later," he said quickly, certain he would be completely out of his depth if the girl began to cry. "For now you may show me to this . . . room, an offer I greatly appreciate the kindness of." Any romance fans want to guess at what Clarion was reading while growing up based on this interaction? quote:"Yes, sir, thank you, sir," she said, acting as though he'd saved her from execution. "Please come this way." Maybe Green took a writing course some time on how to develop characters by having them describe and react to the same things differently. Did she accidentally turn in the character studies she did as part of a workshop instead of a manuscript to her editor? quote:The house's entrance area had been decorated with a trowel, spreading expensive items everywhere one looked. The action was typical of those commoners who happened to acquire gold, and seemed to be painful only to those with decent taste. Clarion carefully looked away from the garish display to keep himself from growing ill, and followed the girl up the wide staircase and to the left. She proceeded up the hall to the first door on the right, threw it open, then stepped aside. So. Much. Toxic. Masculinity. quote:No female had ever seemed to fear him as a man before, most especially not the serving girls of his and Mother's household. Some of them had actually flaunted themselves before him when Mother hadn't been able to see them do it, their belief in their safety always perfectly correct. One of the first times it had happened, when he was still rather young, he'd caught the girl and pulled her into his arms. That, of course, had been when Mother had walked in, and the resulting scene was a memory which still caused him to flinch. Hahahahahahahahahahaha what. quote:Mother had assured him that that was only his imagination, and then had gone on to explain why the girls avoided his company. She'd said the girls had quickly come to understand how high above them he stood, and didn't dare aspire to such exalted heights. Perhaps one day he would find a woman worthy of him, but until that day arrived he could rest untroubled, secure in the knowledge that he still had his mother. Unfortunately for us, Vallant is the wonderful role model that he's going to run into first. quote:He chuckled as he rose from the chair, and wasn't even more than mildly annoyed when he realized that without a personal manservant, he would have to unpack clean clothes for himself. He opened the trunk and took the first outfit to come to hand, each motion making him more and more aware of how badly he needed that bath. This would be another day he'd never forget, and certainly wasn't any less unpleasant than the rest of those days. We now have interrupted monologuing DURING totally redundant monologuing that adds nothing to character or plot or setting whatsoever! quote:The man in the water started, as though Clarion's entrance had awakened him from sleep, and then he frowned. Just casually dropping in the fact that Clarion's used to doing violence with magic. I think Green wants this to come across as self-defence, but based on how off kilter Clarion's sense of how normal social interactions are supposed to go, I'm gonna bet that not everyone he thought was a bully was actually engaged in bullying. quote:"I think I've been blind as well as insensitive," the stranger's voice came suddenly, no longer sounding mocking. "You're an applicant just the way I am, and you're too tired because you just passed your test. What did they do to force you to participate?" The phrase "class brothers" really irritates me. As does "class equals" and other similar phrases Green loves. quote:"What makes you think it can't be?" Ro asked as he actually left the bath, ceding the possession of it without argument. The man was Clarion's own size and must be at least as weary if he'd also passed his test, which he must have done in order to be there. Ro had a look about him that shouted of a familiarity with physical labor as well as being accustomed to command, and yet he'd still given up the bathwater without needing to be forced to it. Clarion was even more impressed than surprised, and both feelings brought him to an attitude of indulgence which he'd never before experienced with an inferior. This is as deep as Green's portrayal of the nobility will ever get. Despite loads of real world history across many different cultures to draw on, she just goes with "nobles good because they are rich, peasants common and therefore bad, unless they have money in which case they are not so bad". quote:"Possibly you didn't think of it because you dislike wasting your time," Clarion answered, remembering his failure with a great deal of distaste. "I, on the other hand, must enjoy it immensely, as I spent much too much time engaged in the useless practice. If there's an answer, it definitely lies elsewhere." Who's next??? Can you guess? Well, we were talking about symmetry before, and Green's certainly tried to go for it here. Complete this oh-so-tricky pattern: Tamrissa -> "meet cute" with Vallant -> has initially angry then friendly words with Clarion -> has initially friendly then angry words with ??? -> "meet cute" with ??? quote:Clarion fell asleep for a while, but not a long enough while. He was still tired when the sound of the door opening woke him, and he looked around to see another stranger entering. This one was dressed in what Clarion considered low-class farm fashion, and he apparently had no idea anyone else was in the bath house. He looked around at the cabinets ranged to the left of the door, and actually had to open each of them before he located the one with towels. Then he went back to the one with soap, and carefully withdrew a jar. Clarion: "Lorand, will you be my friend?" quote:"I didn't intend to hesitate," the mudfoot answered, returning to removing the sacks he obviously considered clothing. "You startled me because I thought the bath house was empty, but it isn't as if I've never used a bath house before. Our town has a large one for the use of the public, and week's end night usually had the place filled to capacity." Lorand: "No" quote:Clarion couldn't answer that question, not in any words the mudfoot was likely to understand. It made a good deal of difference where one bathed, and anyone capable of questioning that truth would certainly be incapable of comprehending it. Instead of continuing with the subject, Clarion waited until the lout had settled himself in the place Ro had vacated, and then he spoke more to the point. Clarion: "Please? Look, I'm being very nice" quote:"Lorand Coll, Earth magic," the man responded, raising his head to frown at Clarion. "What do you mean, how was I forced? I didn't have to be forced to participate, I wanted very much to try." Lorand: "Die of starvation, you useless leech" quote:Clarion was out of the water by then, and he refused to dignify the lout's moronic claims by commenting. Instead he used air to force all the water from his body, finding that even so small an effort as that was nearly beyond him. He quickly used the towel on the bottoms of his feet and then dressed, still maintaining his silence. Of all the mindless, idiotic things to say, calling him low class and worthless! If he weren't so tired, he'd show that lout exactly how worthless he was! An actually good use of an interrupted monologue! quote:But the mudfoot had come far too close to thoughts of doubt that Clarion himself had had from time to time. When Mother had occasionally gone away without him, leaving him with a few of the male servants to see to his needs, he'd sometimes wondered what would become of him if she never returned. He had no idea where her funds came from, or how much was actually there. All he knew how to do was draw his allowance from the bank, that and how to spend it. . . . If Mother had failed to return he would have been completely on his own, without support and companionship, without funds, and without the ability to care for himself. Useless. ... A literal man child. quote:Clarion threw himself into a chair and covered his eyes with his palms, struggling with all his might to force those horrid thoughts away. He didn't want to be where he was, bowing to the demands of others and risking his life at their whim, but perhaps this was the answer to his dilemma. If he did qualify as a High practitioner, he would have a career if he needed or wanted it, one that no one without greater talent could deny him. Clarion's Oedipal complex is extremely messed up. Summary: Day 1 Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 12 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 12 COACH RIDES: 7 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 11 "CLIFFHANGERS": 7 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 7 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 1 BATH SCENES: 3 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 2 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: This chapter should be strangled and put out of its misery. I don't know about Clarion's whole character arc either, which is "Oedipal man child learns to adult" and therefore includes an incredibly cringey B plot of "discovers sex is a thing". I'm leaning towards getting rid of it entirely and replacing his character arc with the political intrigue stuff that starts popping up in Books 2-5 and becomes important in the sequel series. Green attempts to do some political intrigue plot through various other secondary characters that no one cares about. Moving this away from the secondary characters to Clarion entirely would cut down a lot of character bloat and make his arc actually interesting. Leng fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Aug 28, 2020 |
# ? Aug 27, 2020 13:38 |
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quote:CHAPTER FOURTEEN How about we change Lorand's backstory from farm boy to animal tamer in Camil Coll's Cirque du Magnifique? Power over animals is cool and we do not see enough of this in the actual books. There's one scene in Book 2 and another one in Book...6 or 7 and that's pretty much it. quote:Lorand wiped his muddy right palm on his trousers before reaching to the square of wood, his left hand flat on the resin wall to help maintain his balance. If he found the square barred on the other side and unmoving he knew he'd probably cry, but happily he was spared that. The wood pushed in easily, and once opened stayed that way. Now all he had to do was climb through, and then he'd be able to rest for a while. Lorand, a farm boy used to physical labour and presumably would significant core and upper body strength, is unable to do one pull up to get through the exit. Putting your characters in situations that force them to grow is generally good but this not-choice happening in Lorand's third POV chapter. The stakes go from nothing (fireball non-event) to 100 ("open to more power or die!") so there's no indication Lorand is even capable of pushing through his debilitating fear of burnout. quote:But that meant using even more of the power, and Lorand wasn't sure he had the nerve to try it. Every other adult he knew used their talent almost carelessly, either not knowing or deliberately ignoring what could happen if they drew in too much power. Lorand often did the same when it came to casual use, but something inside refused to allow that when he had to increase the amount of "usual" power. He knew he was good and could handle a lot more of the power than most people, but . . . When I first read this, I remember thinking that Lorand had to take in more power in order to pass. Re-reading this section again, I can't see where Green explicitly says he does so, other than "No, no buts". Every single other time, we're specifically told when a character opens to the power or draws in more power. quote:Crawling the few feet to the far opening and twisting around to put himself feet-first toward the ladder was almost harder than everything else he'd done. But Lorand finally managed it, then slowly got himself down the ladder. Only when he finally stood in the narrow hallway below did he let go, sitting down hard on the resin floor and not even feeling it. Exhaustion had that one benefit of dulling the pain of other happenings, and Lorand meant to take full advantage of it. Foreshadowing! Book 4 spoilers: unfortunately we won't find this kid when they liberate the enslaved Highs. Which is a pity, because it would have impacted events in Book 5 quote:But that wasn't the most important point the man had made. The one that affected Lorand personally was the one about reaching a level he might not have reached if his life hadn't been at stake. He couldn't very well argue the truth of it, not when it had actually happened to him, but he still felt a formless yet definite sense of unhappiness. Later we'll get info about how there's a barrier Middles can't push through, so this is in-text confirmation that Lorand took in more power. quote:"I understand all the reasons you've mentioned, but I still think you're . . . not doing it quite right," Lorand said hesitantly. "There ought to be a way to accomplish the same thing without risking people's lives." In-text excuse for Green not doing her homework. quote:"Right now your coach ought to be here soon, so let me explain a few things. Now that you've passed this test, you'll be scheduled for other sessions in the applicant process. The first of the sessions won't be for a few days, so we've arranged for you to stay at a residence along with other applicants." No, no, no! Please write Lorand being torn between trying not to be a country bumpkin and money conscious to the point where he doesn't want to pay 1 silver to take a bath. Also has Green never had to do a quick shower using a washbasin? It's not that hard assuming you a) have privacy or b) don't care who sees. quote:He put the towel back down to find that his clothes case had been leaned up against the basin stand, so he picked it up and joined the man he'd been speaking to at the door the man had opened in the wall. We won't see Lorand taking any action on this point at all, the side plot will basically get shoved in his face. quote:Lorand leaned back slowly, the urge to ask the driver to turn around and go back draining out of him. Right now he wasn't strong enough to face the reality of Hat's death; the possibility alone was almost more than he could handle. There was always a chance that Hat had survived and had even passed the test, and Lorand would end up seeing him at the residence he was being taken to. He'd wait, and ask discreet questions if necessary, and above all get some rest. After that he'd be able to decide what to do if Hat did turn out to be dead. Continue on as if nothing at all had happened, or turn around and walk away in disgust . . . ? Look, a "cliffhanger" in the middle of a chapter! quote:The rest of the ride wasn't as pleasant as Lorand had expected it to be, not with painful thoughts clanging around in his head. Gan Garee was a giant city completely filled with strangers, and Lorand had never known it was possible to feel so alone. He watched those strangers on the street as his coach passed them, dressed in their odd clothes and going about business he couldn't even imagine. Most ignored the vehicle as if it were invisible, but some, not as well-dressed or prosperous-looking as the rest, glared at it and him with a sense of personal insult. As if to say, "How dare you ride like that when we have to walk? Who do you think you are . . . ?" It's so great that Green decided not to show off the wondrous, near legendary city of Gan Garee through the eyes of a character who should be genuinely amazed by everything he encounters, firstly by skipping over his initial experience as he arrives in the city and secondly by having him sudden succumb to faux depression about his "best friend". This is the laziest description writing yet - Green couldn't be bothered imagining things so she just has her character state that he couldn't imagine it. And that's a terrible way of establishing "unhappy general populace with the current status quo, ripe for rebellion". quote:Closing his eyes and leaning his head against the seat back for a moment let Lorand banish that foolishness. It was the tiredness inside him that caused those thoughts, that and the guilt he felt about Hat. Objectively he knew that Hat would have come alone if Lorand hadn't come with him, but emotionally Lorand was hearing one of his father's lectures on the damage it was possible to do by trying to reach too far above yourself. You hurt others even more than yourself, the elder Coll had been fond of insisting, knowing better than most how sensitive Lorand was over the well-being of others. ...why didn't you just write a short flashback? We're literally in Lorand's head. I don't think to myself "I am emotionally hearing one of my parents' oft-repeated lectures", I would be recalling a supercut of the exact words, phrasing, tone of voice, facial expressions and body language of my parents delivering that lecture over a decade or so of my life. quote:"Yeah, he always knew how to reach me," Lorand murmured, but memory of his father was lessening the feelings of guilt rather than increasing them. Hat had been just as determined as Lorand to escape the life they'd been born into, and the most telling point was the one he'd have to think about : would he rather have to go home a failure, or would he prefer to be dead? There were usually other options besides those two, but what if the others didn't count? And what would he have done if he'd known about the risk beforehand? Would he have tried anyway? What do you mean the other options don't count?! quote:There was still too much weariness in him to make any firm decisions, so Lorand let the whole thing go while he looked at the scenery again. They'd reached a really nice neighborhood with big houses on both sides of the street, and Lorand expected the coach to continue on through it. When it turned into one driveway instead he was startled, but then the most obvious answer came to him. The coach was meant to take someone else to that residence, and this was where they'd pick them up. Is plant life in this world sentient? Who knows! We'll never see Lorand do anything with plants for the rest of the books. If anyone likes reading about this kind of thing, then I'd recommend Tamora Pierce's Circle Universe books. In that universe, plants are sentient and "green mages" (basically druids with power over plants only) are a thing. Rosethorn is a boss and Briar's POVs are very fun to read. quote:"Excuse me," a woman's voice interrupted his mental rambling, and Lorand looked down at a rather plain girl who had apparently come out of the house they'd stopped near. Foreshadowing! quote:The girl Warla was already climbing the beautifully grand staircase, so Lorand hurried to follow even though the idea of any sort of stairs still disturbed him. His hurry lasted for all of three steps upward, and then he was forced to remember how little strength he had left. He was also forced to slow down, but Warla didn't try to lose him the way his previous guide had. She waited at the top of the stairs until he'd joined her, and then she led him to the left. It is never explained why Lorand finds the concept of servants "appalling". We already know from Clarion's POVs that a servant's life is pretty crap if you're serving in a noble household and it's just luck of the draw as to how terrible your boss is. It's not farfetched to assume most merchant households wouldn't be any better, given Tamrissa's POVs (since Vallant hasn't thought about this much, except to mentally undress the women around him, and it's hard to tell whether that's Vallant being an rear end in a top hat or representative of the merchant class). Spoilers for Book 4: when the general populace are getting whipped up into a rebellious frenzy, the servants unionize and blacklist a bunch of nobles and merchants who are horrible employers, but we'll never get to see any of this way more interesting stuff, other than as a side note in a chapter with Storn and Avrina Torgar, and Hallina Mardimill. quote:Whether or not that meant Lorand had decided to continue on with the testing was something he didn't care to consider at the moment. His first and most pressing need was a bath and a change of clothes, but he hadn't seen any bath houses in the neighborhood. He'd have to ask someone, but the nearest bath house had better not be too far away. If it was, he'd find a stream or something and use that instead. Please write this instead of the ultra lame bath house sequence! quote:Lorand unpacked a change of clothes, then went downstairs again and found someone to put his question to. Happily the man misunderstood, and answered, "Yes, sir, I certainly can tell you where the bath house is. Just follow this hall to the back of the house, and step outside. A few feet to your left is the pathway to the bath house, which stands between this house and the gardens." Dude, you're an Earth magic practitioner which in theory means you're the closest thing to a nutritionist. Just eat carbs and fibre, that's cheap. You grew up on a farm, so you should know how to harvest seeds from edible plants, plant them and magically Encourage them to grow so you can harvest your own food. And you have control over animals so if you really needed to, you can probably call some pigeons to you and count that as game. If they are parasite infested, well, you can heal yourself. Lorand has the most overpowered magical talent, the training and background to be super capable with it, and doesn't do anything with it at all. He will make this observation out loud at some point in Book...7 or so. quote:but was yanked back to reality when he saw the series of cabinets to the left of the door. Soap and towels must be in there, but Lorand had no idea of what would be where. In the public bath house, he'd been given soap and a towel when he'd paid his use fee. Here, the only thing he could do was search. The only thing that comes up consistently in Lorand's POVs is this worry to not appear like a backwards hick, which will be plot relevant later on in Book 8. Unfortunately Green always writes this sentiment as coming from other people and Lorand repeating the thought in his head without any connection to a particular motive for Lorand to feel that way. We don't get the sense of a lack of self-assurance in Lorand the way we do in Hat so I don't buy that Lorand cares, it just depends on Green's whim at the time. quote:The stranger didn't seem to have an answer to that, so Lorand used the opportunity of his silence to duck completely underwater. It felt wonderful to be wet all over, but it felt even better to know that the stranger had believed him. Lorand's family had a tub installed in one corner of the barn, and that cramped area was where they all bathed. There was a small hearth near it to heat the water, which they'd used in the winter to also warm the area. It was crude but usable, which had always been his father's standard of good enough. Another example of why I think Green's theme (if any) in these books is "raise your children with love". There's so many instances of the main characters explicitly doing something as a reaction to their parents that it's pervasive. quote:"At least I'm not from the useless segment of our society," he growled at Mardimil, who was in the midst of leaving the bath. "If I end up without a High position, I'll still be able to contribute more than I use up. If you end up without one, all you'll be able to do is go back to being a worthless sponge. If you suddenly lost all your mountains of gold, you'd starve to death in a week. Since I'd survive no matter what, I'd say you need to rethink your conclusion about which of us is really the lowest." Nobody is preventing Clarion from learning any useful skills. He's got gold and lots of spare time - he can afford to hire tutors and things if he wants to. quote:"It would be like living with my father, only worse," Lorand decided with a sigh. For him, leaving home hadn't been much of a hardship, and wouldn't have been one even if he'd had to do it on his own. Aside from his mother and brothers, there hadn't been anything left behind that he would miss. He also had a trained ability to offer an employer, and hadn't been raised to consider honest work a shame and a scandal. And he hadn't gotten used to things that only a large amount of gold would buy. Lorand just conveniently glossing over the fact that anybody who passes the test for High practitioner will have at least the same level of facility with their magical talent as himself. quote:Lorand washed his body first, knowing his eyes would end up filled with soap when he did his hair. He'd been thinking his hair was too long, but most men in Gan Garee seemed to wear it even longer. If that was the current style he'd have to learn to live with it, or else stand out even more than his clothes would make him do. Master Lugal had been right about those clothes, and as soon as he won some gold he'd have to see about buying new ones. Tight breeches and wide-sleeved shirts, in all colors but drab green, dull blue, and lifeless gray. Those were the only colors his clothes came in now, but once he had that gold . . . This sudden obsession with clothes makes no sense for Lorand. quote:His hair seemed to be as full of earth as the testing room had been, so Lorand just kept scrubbing at it even when he heard the door open and close again. He thought it might be Mardimil coming back to get in his rebuttal now, but it wasn't possible to open his eyes and look. When the silence continued Lorand decided it was some, other applicant coming in to wash away the sweat of his efforts, and simply continued scrubbing at his hair. Once he got his strength back he'd be able to remove any still-present grains of earth easily, but right now scrubbing was all that could make him feel clean again. How do you lose the edge of the bath while scrubbing and rinsing your hair? You're in a bath, presumably with water that comes up to at least waist level when standing or chest level when sitting, so you rinse by either submerging yourself or bending over to dunk your hair or using a towel or other container to pour water over your head. None of this requires moving in any significant way! For the record, I am super grossed out by the fact that everyone is both RINSING OFF BODILY GRIME and then lounging in the SAME WATER that nobody is cleaning in between bathers. I'm pretty sure the separation of the rinsing and the relaxing areas of a bath house is not a thing unique to Asian bath houses. quote:"I'm sorry to bother you, but I seem to have lost the edge of the bath," he said, speaking in the general direction of the gentle splashes he'd heard. The man had come into the water, and wasn't far from where Lorand stood. "If you'll guide me back to it, I'll introduce myself in the proper way once I can see again." Spoilers: it's not who Lorand thinks it is! I don't even know why he persists in this stupid assumption when he heard a chuckle. That alone should be enough to tell him he's wrong just from the timbre and register of chuckler's voice. quote:"Lorand Coll, Earth magic, at your—" service, only his mind finished, his tongue too frozen with shock to speak the word—or any other. The man with the very small hands wasn't a man at all. He was a woman— She was a woman, and the most beautiful woman he'd ever seen despite the obvious hardship she'd been through. Golden-blond hair and blue-green eyes, an oval face with the most perfect features, a slender body with large breasts, a tiny waist, and beautifully shaped legs . . . Perfect was the only word to describe her, that and— quote:"I'm a woman and you're a man, and we're both unclothed. Do people usually bathe in their clothes where you come from?" quote:"Then I really must apologize," she said in that velvet voice, now sounding completely sincere. "If you're not used to mixed bathing, then you must be horribly embarrassed. I should have waited until you were through and gone, instead of barging in and intruding. I'll wrap up in a towel and wait outside, and you can—" Looks like Clarion wasn't alone in binge reading trashy romance novels! quote:"That must be the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me," she replied, speaking what had to be a lie, but a very pleasant one. "I'll accept your offer if you insist, but it would be perfectly all right if you stayed. I won't mind in the least." Trust me, she noticed. quote:Or relatively safe. He kept his back turned while he dried himself in record time, briefly wishing his magic could have helped the way Mardimil's magic had dried him. Jovvi certainly wasn't watching him, but that wasn't keeping him from imagining her gaze on him, rating what she saw. Rating what usually wasn't seen by anyone but other men. drat it, stop thinking like that before you start to blush like a schoolgirl! That last sentence sticks out so oddly, since Green hasn't used direct thought in any POVs other than Tamrissa's. Also the typesetting doesn't italicize it or anything to distinguish it. Finally, remember Tamrissa is narrating the whole thing via her journal. Writing Lorand's POV in third person limited is already weird in that context, and inserting a direct thought in third person limited is even more weird. quote:Lorand couldn't remember dressing ever taking so long, and the fact that he couldn't hurry in any obvious way just made it worse. But he wasn't going to add to that by saying anything, so as soon as he was ready he gathered up his dirty clothes and headed for the door. When he reached it he thought he was in the clear, but Jovvi's voice came just as he began to push through. Did he just ? quote:"I certainly hope so," he managed to get out, then finally escaped without looking back. But he'd wanted to look back, and after he reached his room he wondered if she would have minded. She hadn't seemed to mind when they were in the water, but it wouldn't have been the same with him fully dressed. No, he'd been right not to impose on her broad-mindedness, especially since he couldn't match it. Between the two of them, he was the overly-modest old maid. Summary: Day 1 Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 12 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 12 COACH RIDES: 8 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 13 "CLIFFHANGERS": 8 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 7 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 1 BATH SCENES: 4 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 2 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: Lorand and Jovvi's entire romance arc is about him having to overcome his prejudices regarding polygamy and women's autonomy over their own bodies. Since Jovvi is a courtesan, the conflicting world views will eventually come up anyway (as we'll see in about...13 chapters) so we don't need their initial meeting to establish that conflict. In which case, the initial meeting is simply about establishing attraction, which means it can take place anywhere. Green's writing of this arc is so hilariously paced that they basically go from attraction to Lorand proposing in the space of 1-2 interactions that take place over 1-2 days. I think it's because Green's background as a romance writer means she's got romance plotting in her head; two people who are interested in each other just simply can't get together immediately - there wouldn't be enough angst to sustain the plot otherwise! Since this is supposed to be a fantasy novel, not a romance novel, the THREE romance plots should be subplots that provide variety to the main plot. Instead, Green can't seem to distinguish between which of her plot lines is the main one. There being three romances going on versus the singular storyline about the competition to become the next Seated Blending, the page time spent on the romances far outweigh the time spent on preparing for the competition (during which every single protagonist agonizes over the manufactured not-drama in their love life). This - apart from all of the repetition of the same beats over and over five times - is what drags down the pacing of these novels so much. In my rewrite so far, I threw out the bath house sequence and made a big change with regards to Hat he passes easily and Lorand struggles to get through, so there's an equal friendship/rivalry instead of the unbalanced one we've got now. The Lorand/Jovvi relationship is set up via casual Lorand/Hat banter to pull back from the heavy romance focus. I did write a Lorand/Jovvi scene to establish the dynamic of their relationship, but kept it minimal. If I rewrite this again, I think I would link that scene somehow to the main plot to make it do more work.
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# ? Aug 28, 2020 03:06 |
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quote:CHAPTER FIFTEEN Maybe crawling is not an option because Jovvi is a lady, or whatever? quote:She was really terrified and desperate, but when her quaking mind began to think that she'd never been so frightened in her entire life, some tiny part inside her immediately denied that. Her father had been killed in a mining accident when she was nine, and her mother had been left with Jovvi and her two older brothers and the baby. Her mother, a very minor talent in Water magic, was already taking in washing to help make ends meet, and the death of her husband was a blow she'd never recovered from. This backstory about how Jovvi's dad died should really have featured more prominently. As we don't have any other information about mining generally in this world, I'm assuming he worked in the Deep Caverns though that doesn't make sense since it's implied that only lawbreakers are sent there. quote:Some women fall apart when tragedy takes away the one source of strength and safety in their lives, but some grow hard and tough themselves as a replacement for what was gone. Jovvi's mother had been a pleasant and loving woman who scolded but smiled indulgently when her husband tried to spoil their children. That changed completely and without warning once her husband was dead, as though someone had taken her a great distance away without moving her body an inch. Parli, Jovvi's mother, turned as cold as an uncaring stranger, and never again looked at her children with love. Somebody please describe what a "darkly musing way" is supposed to be. It's unclear whether the "death price" is from her father's employer or from the government (I'd assume the former). This paragraph is pretty ambiguously written, so it's unclear who the "she" in the last sentence is - Parli or Jovvi. I'm thinking it's supposed to be Parli, since Jovvi is nine, but maybe it's supposed to be Jovvi. quote:For a very long time, Jovvi had no idea what that something would turn out to be. Living on almost nothing was very hard, and she and her brothers took to roaming around their part of town, searching the refuse of those who were wealthier. Almost everyone fell into that category, and occasionally they found things that were edible. When that happened she and her brothers shared the treasure, making no effort to bring any of it back to the stranger who pretended to look after them. This is pretty sad. quote:Then, about eleven months after her father's death, Jovvi's oldest brother disappeared. She and her last remaining brother searched everywhere for him, but no one had seen him nor did anyone see him again. It was supposed that he ran away from what could no longer be called a home, but he hadn't even said goodbye to her. They'd been so close . . . had he been afraid she'd beg to go with him, and hadn't wanted her any more than their mother did? That grammatical error is from the actual text. Looks like this book didn't get a copy edit either. quote:Jovvi had had no idea what Parli was talking about, and grew even more confused when decent food was available more often than it had ever been before. She still wore rags, but at least she now had what to eat every once in a while. It wasn't until she was almost twelve years old that the man and his bully boys came to get her, the man her mother had sold her to. That was when she realized that the baby hadn't died and the boys hadn't run away . . . and even though she was a widow her mother was pregnant again. . . . Annnnd there goes Green, ruining what was otherwise a half decent flashback to Jovvi's traumatic childhood by beating us over the head with the obvious conclusions. quote:"Now, that was when I first understood the meaning of fear," Jovvi whispered to herself, gathering together the scraps of her courage. "But I survived it and the worse that followed, so I refuse to not survive this. There's supposed to be a way to win, and all I have to do is find it." Green keeps on having her protagonists talk to themselves in these "critical moments" which is really bizarre. As an author, you've got so many choices as to how to go about showing what the characters are thinking. She did this just one chapter ago, by going into direct thought in Lorand's POV! If that feels too weird, she's also got the option of indirect though. Why would you choose to opt for direct speech of all things when you got the other choices? quote:All. That had been easy to say, but doing it would prove a good deal harder. The invisible wind of all those emotions buffeted her mercilessly and with ever-increasing strength, and simple determination would never get her across those twenty-five feet to escape and safety. She'd have to calm and balance the emotions, but the way she'd already tried hadn't worked. Maybe if she ran . . . MAYBE IF YOU CRAWLED!??!?!?! quote:Jovvi sighed, discarding the idea of running without any further consideration. She'd been a very fast runner during her childhood, and could have managed a good deal of speed even dressed the way she was. But the strength of the invisible wind would overcome even the fastest runner in the world, knocking her off balance and off the walkway. No, she needed to find a way to shield herself from the buffeting long enough to get across the walkway, but how could she do that? You should first learn to CRAWL before you try to walk and then run! quote:And that wasn't something she was prepared to let happen. She'd worked too long and hard to get where she was to let it all go to waste, not even if that gauntlet of unbalance stretched all the way back to Rincammon. There had to be a way to get past it— Close enough. quote:Balancing the first two groups of emotion on either side of her was fractionally harder than it had been the last time she'd tried, showing she was seriously beginning to tire. That meant she had no time to waste, so she moved to the far side of her small island of calm, dropped the two groups, and reached for two more. She nearly lost her balance before the second two groups were calmed, but she couldn't let herself notice that. She simply had to keep on with it, moving three or so feet ahead with every successful effort. This is such a weird detail. The different ways the exit doors are barred are irrelevant to the story and adds nothing. quote:Paying no attention to whether or not the hallway floor was clean, Jovvi used the wall opposite the door to help her sit down without falling down. The muscles in all four of her limbs had turned to quivering water, and she couldn't understand why she hadn't passed out. Fainting wasn't something she'd ever actually done, but passing out after a time of incredible harshness . . . You were on the verge of fainting after the fireball attack. I don't believe you when you say you're not the fainting type. quote:"There, there, my dear, it's all over now," a male voice soothed, and suddenly there was an arm around her shoulders helping to support her. "Here, drink this and it will make you feel better." This guy is and the way Jovvi thinks about it is...actually good characterization! quote:"I've made it my business to have an adequate knowledge of the law, and I've never heard of the one you just referred to," she told him flatly. "If you think you can bully me into going along even further with this madness, you're very much mistaken. I'm not a fool and I never let myself be bullied." This would have been a much better place to put the flashback about Jovvi's father. quote:"Your expression tells me you're prepared to be your usual gracious and agreeable self," the man said after a moment, straightening from his crouch before offering her his hand. "With that in view we'll get you on your way to the residence where you've been assigned and where you may rest. You need only remember that discussing the details of your test with anyone at all is strictly forbidden." Foreshadowing! And Jovvi's the only one to notice this detail so far. It's unclear whether we're supposed to take it further confirmation that the rest of the crew are unobservant (which we already know) or that the trial was so harrowing that only someone "super observant" like Jovvi would notice. quote:"There you are, my dear," the man said once he'd helped her into the coach. "The driver will take you where you're supposed to go, and you'll have the opportunity to rest before your first session. Perhaps we'll even meet again." I think this is another attempt to characterize Jovvi as oh so socially savvy - she can convey whole speeches in a single look and read motives in every expression! But this is just...awful. Let's compare Green's attempts to one from Janny Wurtz/Raymond Feist, from a scene in Servant of the Empire: Mara waved for a servant to carry away the refreshment tray, which Jiro had not touched. Although she regretted provoking Jican's disappointment that the finest fruits in the kitchens should be spurned, she was too tense to indulge herself. She did not like the way Jiro's eyes darted about, taking in every detail of the Acoma hall, servants, and guardsmen. His interest held the hunger of an officer in an enemy camp who gathered information in preparation for an assault. Never as straightforward as his elder brother, Halesco, Jiro thought in subtleties that were rooted in ambition. Mara strove to sort out how much of what he spoke was truth, and how much was exaggeration designed to scare her. The difference is striking - Mara's inner monologue shows a constant awareness of how other characters think and their motives. The specific details called out in the description adds so much characterization. The only emotions that are flat out stated are Mara's own, in a thought that demonstrates Mara herself is self aware of her own emotions and the consequences of her actions in managing them. quote:It took only a few moments before they passed through an archway in the outer wall and were on the street, and then Jovvi was finally able to relax. There had been something disturbing about that entire area, and it was a positive relief to leave it. She hated the idea of not being able to get on with her plans, but there was a bright note in all that hampering fog: that bonus in gold the man had mentioned. It simply wasn't possible to have too much gold, and if it turned out she had to participate in those competitions, she fully intended to make the most of the time. The constant references to "bonus in gold" drives me nuts. I'm not asking Green to have figured out the whole economy for her fake fantasy world but we should get some indications of how much things cost, relative wealth, etc. We've had five chapters of the protagonists, all of whom (other than Lorand) either come from money or are independently wealthy, so none of them should be impressed by a vague promise of more gold. Like are we talking 10 gold or 200,000 gold? Is it a fancy meal at the best restaurant in Gan Garee or the equivalent to the total yearly income from a High Lord's estates? In theory, Jovvi the wantrepreneur should really be running some calculations of opportunity costs in her head. How much gold does she bring in as a famous courtesan in a month? 1,000 gold? 5,000 gold? 10,000 gold? What's her profit after her expenses? How much does it cost to rent the kind of house that is suitable for a courtesan's residence? How much would Jovvi's cut be as a sponsor for other courtesans? How long does it take to become cash flow positive when starting a new residence? Because if Jovvi started out with 10,000 gold sewn into her travelling clothes, with rent for a suitable furnished residence being 2,000 gold per month, she can pull in 1,000 gold per week alone and it only takes 5-10 leads to secure 3-4 regular patrons assuming she's as desirable as all her POV chapters seem to indicate, then the competitions better be paying some insane one-off bonus in the tune of at least 10,000 gold or more. quote:Once they left the area of the testing center, the drive became rather pleasant for Jovvi. The neighborhoods they passed through slowly improved to the point of being quite lovely, and possibly even the sort of area she'd been looking for. Large private houses were to either side of the street, but most of them couldn't be seen by the casual passerby. Only occasional glimpses were visible, but those glimpses suggested the necessary combination of large-scale privacy and good taste. More Words of Wisdom from our Jovvi. quote:The coach pulled up in front of a house that fit Jovvi's mind picture perfectly, making her feel a good deal better. Her enforced stay here would not be a total waste of time after all, since living in a neighborhood let you look around quite easily for property on the market. But first she badly needed to refresh herself, not to mention spend a long, full night asleep in a real bed. If she'd been weary when she'd reached the testing center, now she was nearly done in completely. At what point does courtesan training include interior design and decoration? quote:Too much of anything—including expensive things—made a clutter, and gave people the impression that you were trying to prove something. And distracted visitors from really impressive things like that magnificent staircase. Jovvi examined it with pleasure as she followed Warla in climbing it, promising herself one just like it once that testing nonsense was behind her. Because girls can't be best friends unless they have rooms right next to each other. quote:She and Warla stood to one side while the men carried in her trunk, and once the servants were gone Warla turned to her with another of those shy smiles. She's been in Tamrissa's house for 10 minutes and she's already planning on headhunting away the staff. With her background of growing up on the streets, it's implied that Jovvi used to steal. This book would be a lot more interesting to read if Jovvi systematically stole all of the expensive things in Tamrissa's house and fenced them for additional start up capital. quote:But that thought was for later, and getting clean again was for as soon as she could reach the bath house. There weren't many people about as she made her way through the house, just quiet servants going about their business. Did that mean she and Warla's mistress were the only two applicants in the house right now? That would be pleasant—or not, depending on what sort of woman Warla's mistress was. And was there a master as well? She'd have to remember to ask. Remember when you saw the exact same guy when you got out of the coach earlier that day and you did not think he was hot at all? quote:Jovvi lost no time in getting out of her clothes and into the water, and her companion did nothing to acknowledge her presence. He seemed far too involved with scrubbing his light hair, which probably meant he was another applicant. Her own hair felt twice its normal weight from having soaked up her sweat, but the delightfully warm water would soon take care of that—once she'd soaked a bit. quote:Jovvi carefully turned the stranger in the proper direction, then watched as he groped his way to the towel lying at the edge of the bath. He used it first on his eyes and then to interrupt the dripping from his stylishly long hair, and finally turned back to her to say, "Lorand Coll, Earth magic, at your—" I can't tell whether or not Green's trying to signal something early about Spirit magic or not. Spoilers for Books 2 and 3: Spirit and Earth magic users are walking lie detectors quote:"Then I really must apologize," she said instead, trying to give back the honesty she'd gotten. "If you're not used to mixed bathing, then you must be horribly embarrassed. I should have waited until you were through and gone, instead of barging in and intruding. I'll wrap up in a towel and wait outside, and you can—" One look with your eyes or with your talent? quote:"That must be the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me," she told him with her own honesty and the sort of smile her patrons had never gotten to see. "I'll accept your offer if you insist, but it would be perfectly all right if you stayed. I won't mind in the least." Oh, just with your eyes. quote:Jovvi was content to wait and see, especially since she had the back of Lorand to look at while he dried himself. And a lovely back it was, so broad and nicely muscled and leading down to hard, firm buttocks and those strong, well-shaped legs. He was a desirable man, all right, but Jovvi didn't realize completely just how desirable he was until he was all dressed, had gathered up his dirty clothes, and was heading for the door. Without saying anything else, she smugly pointed out to her suspicion. But that didn't mean she had to stay equally as silent. Ding ding ding! Also apparently Jovvi can tell whether or not someone will be a good lover just by looking at their . quote:Jovvi suddenly laughed at herself, interrupting the daydreaming to get down to the business of washing. She was still stuck with having to go through those "sessions," and so, obviously, was Lorand. Until she found a loophole in the law to free the two of them, making plans was a foolish waste of time. Time that could be used more profitably napping while waiting for dinner to be ready. Hi Beldara! We'll get to hating you in Chapter 17. quote:Stretching out on the bed felt wonderful even if she was fully clothed. Getting in and out of her things was completely beyond her, and there was still dinner to look forward to. But not before she'd napped a little . . . and then added a few touches of makeup . . . brushed her hair . . . hid her gold. . . . If you were going to sleep, why did you bother to get fully dressed after your bath? Being as image conscious as you are, I refuse to believe you are ok with your dress being all wrinkled from sleeping in it. quote:So you see some of us had an easier time of it than others. Meeting each other, I mean. None of that first part was easy, nor were the times that followed. I often found myself wondering if it was really worth what we were putting into it, but most of that came later. It was when—Oh, all right, I'll tell it in the order it happened. There were other things happening as well, much of which we either heard about later, or put together with guesswork. You see, it was—All right, all right, I'll stop telling them about it and show them! But if you feel so strongly about my innocent comments, I'll just have to make fewer of them in future. YES, PLEASE SHUT UP WITH YOUR STUPID COMMENTS TAMRISSA!! Summary: Day 1 Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 13 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 12 COACH RIDES: 9 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 14 "CLIFFHANGERS": 8 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 1 BATH SCENES: 5 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 2 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: Brainwash this chapter into being something else. And maybe the whole book up until this point. I did a quick count and we are at 71,161 words (15 out of the 44 chapters in Book 1) so far. The chapter lengths are so unbalanced (the shortest being 726 words long in the Prologue or 2320 words in Chapter 10 vs 6828 words in Chapter 14) that it's hard to tell whether being one third of the way through the chapters is about a third of the way through the book. Green has written more words than the minimum word count to win NaNoWriMo to introduce her main characters and nothing pertaining to the main plot (it's a twenty-fifth year, magic users are being gathered from all over the Empire for a competition where the winner gets to rule the Empire as part of a Blending for the next quarter century) has happened whatsoever. So what can we do instead? Here are some thoughts: - The title of Book 1 is "Convergence" for obvious reasons. The problem is, unless there is some conflict or problem with how the main cast gets together, there is no actual plot happening. "Convergence" as a concept would work as the title of Chapter 1 only. We'd have to do something to indicate supernatural/Fate at play though, if we stick with the Prophecy angle. - If we were following the typical hero's journey and picking a single POV for the whole story, then it would make sense to start where Green did, with one of the protagonists leaving home and responding to the "Call to adventure". The hook itself ("the law requires you to!") isn't a very compelling one; mainly because none of the protagonists make any sort of active choices; they just get dragged along for the ride and at some point most of them make up their minds to follow along, which is quite possibly the least compelling decision to cross the threshold, ever. - It's debatable whether we should even start chronologically at all - instead of having a crappy Prologue, perhaps we'd get a better hook if we started the book with Lorand in the middle of the competition and then doing a flash back to how Lorand got there, then picking up and resolving that round of the competition in the last chapter. - Thinking about the idea of the "Promise", let's take a look at the blurb on Book 1 (yes the typos are actual typos in the blurb on the ebook; my physical copy is in a box somewhere so I can't confirm if the typos exist in the print version): quote:"In a world of magical adepts, every quarter-century the five talents must he brought only this powerful union of can prevent the prophesied return of the Evil Ones who once enslaved the land." The cover and blurb is promising political intrigue culminating in some sort of awesome action sequence using magic to defeat Super Evil that will otherwise destroy the world. After reading all of the books, I have no idea what the "fearsome depravity that hungers for their world" is (Books 5 and 8 spoilers: it's the general concept of depraved people ruining their children creating an endless cycle of abuse, which is most definitely not the Super World Destroying Evil that was promised). Earlier, I said that I would map Books 1-3 roughly as Act I (they become the most powerful mages), Books 4-5 as Act 2 (they fight a bunch of battles and end a war) and Books 6-8 as Act 3 (political hijinks and a new external threat must be overcome to stabilize their reign) in terms of the overall story in this universe. When we get further into the books, I can discuss that in more detail, but for now I think I would use the materials and plot a new trilogy like this: - Book 1 is a tournament arc that answers the question of who gets to rule the Empire next, seeding a lot of the background for the political intrigue to come - Book 2 is focused on political intrigue and stabilizing their new rule, with hints of the Prophecy and the Big Bad in the background - Book 3 is all out action dealing with the Prophecy and a mad battle with the Big Bad I'm not sure how to deal with the polygamy stuff at the moment. I don't think Green did a particularly informed portrayal of it but it's pretty fundamental to plot progression and the magic system. Suggestions welcome! Assuming we take the default path of hero's journey, etc, the whole first chapter of the rewrite would be Lorand leaving home and qualifying as an applicant, fireball and near death testing experience included. I'm pretty sure I can nail that in 6000-7000 words or so, and we'd be at the same point in the overall story as we are right now.
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# ? Aug 30, 2020 04:39 |
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Welcome to our first interlude! Green doesn't call it this but since I'm a huge Sanderson fan, I'm going to use the term because in a Sanderson book, this would absolutely be classified as an interlude. Sadly, it's not an exciting one, because I don't think Green can recognize what exciting looks like in novel form.quote:CHAPTER SIXTEEN Ugh. We're at a board meeting. quote:The other five men present were not the same. They were clearly individuals, but the resemblance each had to the others was quite noticeable. All of them were of middle years or approximately so, each had a pleasant, oval face which inspired trust and friendliness, and none of them was remarkable in any negative way. All had medium brown hair and unprepossessing brown eyes, average builds on bodies of average height, and hands unmarked by any sign of manual labor. They dressed in varying colors, but all wore the same sort of loose-sleeved shirt and cloth trousers. Nothing remarkable, except for the remarkable resemblance. Like most boards, it's full of middle aged white men. These are the creepy guys who were giving the test instructions and the Not Water in the previous 10 chapters. quote:"You may begin your reports," the man at the head of the table announced, removing a pen and jar of ink from the inner pockets of his coat. "Am I mistaken, or have we finally reached the end of the flow? Air?" I feel like the chairman of the board would not be carrying around his own pen and jar of ink in his coat pocket. Usually you don't chair the meeting AND take the minutes at the same time. quote:"Yes, sir, we have reached the end of it," one of the five responded with a faint smile. "The last of the applicants arrived and were processed, and now we're almost ready to move forward. Would you like the figures?" There's that faint smile that every single character uses! And yeah, we're about to get the TL;DR summary of the first 15 chapters here. quote:"If you please," the man at the head of the table agreed, his pen already inked and now poised over the papers set before him. I hate badly run meetings and this definitely looks like one. Strike one: no agenda. Strike two: papers were not circulated for reading prior to the meeting, so now we have to sit through five verbal reports and wait for the chair to minute them down. Ugh. quote:"This month, the final month, the Air magic applicants totaled twenty," the other man obliged. "Three of them proved to be no more than ordinary Middles, incapable of drawing in more of the power than that level calls for. We rescued them before they died, thanked them gently for coming, then sent them home. One of them cried, but they all went." This is the closest we're ever going to get regarding data on population, so I'm gonna keep a count just for this chapter: pre:+-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | | Air | Earth | Fire | Water | Spirit | Total | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Rescued Middles | 3 | | | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Died | 15 | | | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Passed | 2 | | | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Total | 20 | | | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ quote:"Well done," the man at the head of the table commented, most of his attention on the figures he wrote. What? Air only proved he was able to summarize a list of records. This is not exactly a demanding skill. quote:"And those two were given the proper drink, were they not? Along with the proper instructions?" They were given a mind control drug. The foreshadowing with the Not Water resolved in the chapter immediately after all those viewpoints. Despite this, we're still going to have to spend a bunch more chapters on this plot point with the characters not figuring it out until Chapter 17 in Book 3. quote:"Excellent," the man at the head of the table said, taking the two sets of papers handed to him. If Green included all those previous paragraphs on the paper shuffling just for a payoff here so we'd realize that the papers being handed over are applicant dossiers, I don't think she understands the concept of a "payoff". quote:Then his glance went to another of the five. "Earth?" pre:+-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | | Air | Earth | Fire | Water | Spirit | Total | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Rescued Middles | 3 | 5 | | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Died | 15 | 10 | | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Passed | 2 | 3 | | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Total | 20 | 18 | | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ quote:The man at the head of the table wrote again, accepted the three sets of papers passed over, then said, "Fire?" Book 4 spoilers: 'Sup, Lanir? pre:+-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | | Air | Earth | Fire | Water | Spirit | Total | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Rescued Middles | 3 | 5 | 5 | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Died | 15 | 10 | 13 | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Passed | 2 | 3 | 4 | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Total | 20 | 18 | 22 | | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ quote:The ordinary people of this land don't know how grateful they should be to us. We cull those who are born unfit before they're able to pass on their handicaps, thereby keeping their numbers manageably low. If not for us, every town and village and city would be knee-deep in flawed Highs." 16 chapters in and we finally get somewhat a statement of the theme - controlling others. I should have probably put it together earlier but Green is so bad at this that it takes a while to sift through all of the mess. Yeah, ok, so the theme of these books is about control - when is control good and when is it bad? It will not surprise you that Green doesn't have anything deep to say on this point: self control is good, controlling other people is bad, unless you are the protagonist in which case it is totally ok to mind control other people because you're the protagonist and it's cool when you do it because you only do it when you have no other choices (because not controlling people is not a choice). quote:"Water magic applicants were just as cooperative, with thirteen of the nineteen dying. Two were Middles and were rescued, four were unflawed and therefore passed. At least to this point. What they'll find it possible to do next remains to be seen." pre:+-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | | Air | Earth | Fire | Water | Spirit | Total | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Rescued Middles | 3 | 5 | 5 | 2 | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Died | 15 | 10 | 13 | 13 | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Passed | 2 | 3 | 4 | 4 | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Total | 20 | 18 | 22 | 19 | | | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ quote:"Especially when they find themselves competing with other applicants who have been here and practicing for months, if not all year." This from the last of the men, who wore his own faint smile. "At least a third of them won't survive, and another third will try to withdraw. My figures for Spirit magic, by the way, are seventeen applicants, two Middles, another thirteen dead, and two who were successful. Successful, that is, for the moment." pre:+-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | | Air | Earth | Fire | Water | Spirit | Total | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Rescued Middles | 3 | 5 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 17 | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Died | 15 | 10 | 13 | 13 | 13 | 64 | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Passed | 2 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 15 | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ | Total | 20 | 18 | 22 | 19 | 17 | 96 | +-----------------+-----+-------+------+-------+--------+-------+ This system results in the stupidest waste of lives and magical talent ever! We will never get an explanation of why "flawed potential Highs" are bad, or how they are actually different from Middles. By all accounts so far, Middle talents are pretty strong so it's really weird to do this as a government. You have mind control drugs; why don't you just drug everyone of Middle strength and higher? Books 6-8 will feature a bunch of Middle talents doing things as part of the B plot and they can actually do a lot of stuff! Also how big exactly is this Empire? Is the population of Australia (~25 million) a fair estimate? Because if we take this test for High practitioner as an age-based thing (since you just randomly get sent when you develop sufficient strength and everyone is checked up until the age of 25), we could use the end of high school exams as a proxy. Taking the 3 most populous states, we've got roughly 75,000 in NSW, 50,000 in VIC and 40,000 in QLD so 165,000 people, give or take, so let's be generous and round that up to 200,000 seniors sitting their high school exams in a year. 1,200/200,000 is 0.6% of the population having a magical talent of Middle strength or higher which just seems bizarre in a world where her main premise is everyone can do magic because she wanted magic to be prevalent instead of restricted to a few people. Either her world building is broken, or she copped out and said "yes everyone can do magic, only most people can do so little with magic that they might as well not have any magical talent". quote:All five of the men chuckled at that, but the one at the head of the table was too busy finishing the figures and gathering up sets of papers to do the same. By appearances he neither approved nor disapproved of the banter, and when he'd put everything in order he looked up again. ...the substantive part of the reports were reading out a summary of statistics that could have been circulated beforehand. quote:"Now I will ask you for the final time: has any of you seen anything that might match one of the Prophecies? It won't necessarily be anything overt, remember, as some of the verses refer to happenings that are quite subtle. The more obvious signs will come 'out of the sight of the Five's enemies,' which at this point would be us. Is there anything to report?" Hello reference to the completely useless and aggravating Prologue! quote:"My report is that there's nothing at all to report," the man representing Water magic replied calmly but confidently. "I've been watching carefully, and none of the applicants seemed especially heroic. Some, in fact, appear to have personal flaws which will see them quickly eliminated. No one has asked this before, so allow me to put the question which is surely in all our minds: Is this matter of the Prophecies something that should concern us to this great a degree? I know of no one who actually believes that the infamous Four will return, or that it will take a special Blending to defeat them. These are children's stories, and it's almost inconceivable that anyone in authority can take them seriously." Finally! An actual, not useless part of the meeting that follows the principles of useful meetings: discuss things only by exception! quote:"Then they must be among the talents who will form Blendings from those applicants who are nobly born," the man representing Air magic offered in a calm and reasonable tone. "They're excused from going through this same nonsense required of commoners, so what would be more logical? And since it will be one of their Blendings which will win as always, that fits as well." Way to spoil your own series, Green. We're going to have to spend the next two books watching the main characters clumsily come to this conclusion. quote:This time, however, is not meant to be the same, for it's the time spoken of in the Prophecies! Is none of you able to take that in? The Prophecies are not to be dismissed, they're to be worried about!" This whole series is extremely bizarre. quote:"But. . . that makes for greater confusion rather than less," the representative of Fire said at last, speaking slowly. "If the Prophecies do come true after all, then somehow the infamous Four will return to take over. They turned everyone into virtual slaves before they were defeated by the first Fivefold Blending, and if they return and regain their position, they'll do the same again. With that in mind, why are we searching for the Five meant to stop them? To give them our support? But that doesn't—" Here's that promised Big Bad on the blurb! Spoilers for Book 5: it turns out that it was a transcribing error, because the actual words of the Prophecy refer to the "devastating evil of the Four" and so the Four are truly dead and buried quote:"Enough!" the man's superior interrupted, slamming his hand down hard on the table. "This is precisely why the matter has been kept from the populace, to avoid their jumping to such emotional and illogical conclusions! That was actually a very logical line of thinking. quote:And you of all people should know better than to interpret all the Prophecies so literally. They've been correct in predicting some sort of crisis during the twenty-five year reign of each Blending, but what about the rest of it? The Prophecies claim that any Blending not seated in 'full fairness' will fail to survive and find victory on the 'blackest of days,' but has that happened? Hasn't every crisis been successfully met during the last century?" In case you somehow missed Green spoiling her own series, she does it a second time to make sure any possibility of tension is thoroughly ruined. quote:"Forgive my momentary naivete," Fire said after a moment, his expression rueful. "Emotionalism is a heady wine, and I clearly drank too deeply. May I ask, sir, what the true state of affairs is? Explanations will aid our ability to assist in the matter." Wow, Green's just piling on the spoilers here. And yes, we're still going to have to see the main characters figure this out in Book 2. A reminder that the position of Seated High is different to Seated Blending. For...reasons? It's never made clear what the Seated Highs do. At any rate, since Green spoiled things, I can talk about how both the Seated Highs and the Seated Blending are figureheads for the Advisors (a group of Lords and High Lords) who are the true power behind the Fivefold Throne. This would be a delightful set up for a political intrigue, except for one little problem: Green doesn't world build or do character development so we won't get a sense that there are different factions vying for influence or what their objectives are other than "stay in control". quote:The five men smiled with pleased amusement, enjoying the jest as much as they always did, but their attention had not strayed from their superior. They were about to learn things they needed to know, and those who meant to survive in their world always listened carefully at such times. Where was the jest? Because I totally missed it! I've sat through some really boring meetings but this one beats all of them. quote:"Our disturbance over the Prophecies is really quite simple," their superior began, putting the tips of his fingers together before his face. "Somehow or other the threat of the Four will come to pass, but just how that will happen doesn't concern us at the moment. What does concern us is the very unreasonable—but easily reached—conclusion that our chosen Blending will fail against the threat. Past experience has shown us that the opposite is true, as there's no reason to believe that this 'crisis' will be any different from previous ones. Does this guy believe in the Prophecies or not? He's lambasted his lackeys for not taking the Prophecies seriously, then said that the Prophecies have come true in the past because all of their puppet Blendings have successfully overcome the crisis that occurred in their quarter-century, which he open admittedly to manufacturing. quote:All five of his listeners shook their heads slowly, considering the matter with similar frowns. Then Earth stirred in his seat. Book 8 spoilers: the state of Blending basically symbolizes nirvana, because not only have you found The One, you've found The Others who make you a Complete Whole entity when you Blend both magically and physically in an everlasting state of total fulfilled polygamous bliss which also means you'll magically be the bestest parents to any offspring that result from said polygamy because the Power of Love conquers all. I seriously can't tell whether this is Green trying to lay down red herrings for the magic system's she's got planned or an attempt at representing people who don't fit into the polygamy required for her magic system to work. There's also an actual plot hole here, because Book 2 spoilers the Seated Highs themselves are actually Middles and they know it; they've basically been self selectively breeding out strong magical talent so they had trouble scraping up enough noble High talents to face the commoner High talents . quote:"That point has already occurred to the Advisors," their superior replied with a nod. "Once the common Blendings are thrown together for the contest, there will be many eyes examining them. We'd hoped to save ourselves the trouble, but apparently that's not to be. Ah well, we'll find them eventually, and then they'll be gotten out of our way. Thank you for your reports, gentlemen, and do enjoy yourselves watching the final sessions and practices of this last batch of applicants. The time ought to be most amusing." Surely, somewhere along the way, an editor had hoped to save us the trouble of reading this mess. quote:The five smiled their agreement and rose to their feet when their superior did, then watched him leave the room. Once again he seemed the ordinary, successful businessman, rather than one of the Advisors' best and most dangerous agents. He came from one of the most powerful noble families in the empire, and hadn't let his handicap of low-talent status keep him from a most successful career. I actually haven't figured out who the Chairman is yet! There's not enough identity clues so it could actually be a few possibilities. The front runner is probably Embisson Ruhl, though you wouldn't be able to make this guess until you've read Book 6. quote:"I really dislike that man," Fire murmured, the look in his eyes no longer mild and unperturbed. "One day I'll find him in just the right place, and then I'll leave him as nothing more than a pile of ashes." The world building is so inconsistent. The term "cripple" is normally used in the novels to refer to "nulls" (someone born without magical talent), yet here it's being used to refer to a Low, who is normally just referred to as a Low. quote:"One of my sons managed to qualify, as did my brother's youngest daughter," Air commented, sounding rather smug. "If either of them is Seated on the Fivefold Throne, our difficulties will be over. They both have an incredibly strong sense of family, and will support us even against the Advisors." WHERE IS GREEN'S EDITOR?! This chapter isn't all that long (2983 words) and we just got told that the entire competition is rigged! This whole exchange doesn't make any sense. You guys already know who's going to win, and therefore whether or not your son and niece are in that Blending. There should be no "ifs" involved at all. quote:All of them agreed to that with laughter, all except Spirit. The man had been very quiet, and Water studied him for a moment. I'm annoyed enough by this whole exchange that I'm going to count this as blatant moralizing because it's close enough. quote:The others agreed with Water, and Spirit finally unbent enough to join them in a ridiculing laugh. Then they left to find some excellent wine and even better female companionship, and no longer worried about something that would never happen. The infamous Four, returning to enslave everyone in reach! Really . . . ! A reminder that we're reading Tamrissa's journal so there's no way that she could reconstruct these events unless Book 8 spoilers she interviewed Embisson Ruhl and Book 4 spoilers somehow this subject came up while she was being held captive by Lord Lanir, which I very much doubt because of Green's habit of writing EVERYTHING that happens and we did not see this Summary: Day 1 Our Five protagonists arrive in Gan Garee and pass their tests with Great Drama. Everyone is sent to live at Tamrissa's house which is now an official residence for applicants. They meet each other via a series of lazily written exchanges set in the bath house because Green wanted to have people naked on screen for reasons before Game of Thrones made sexposition a thing. We get a spoiler laden chapter from the creepy dudes administering the tests that flat out states everything is rigged and people have been dosed with mind control drugs to ensure their absolute compliance. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 13 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 16 COACH RIDES: 9 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 14 "CLIFFHANGERS": 8 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 2 BATH SCENES: 5 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 2 MIND CONTROL: 5 (I'm starting this counter at 5 since we just got in-text confirmation of what was done in the previous chapters) REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: For some reason, Green deviated from POVs entirely and went to third person omniscient for this interlude. The constant changing from first person in the Tamrissa chapters, to third person limited in everyone else's and then randomly to third person omniscient here bugs me no end. Assuming it makes any sense to keep this chapter, I would be picking a POV and sticking to it. Of the available characters, the only two that make sense (because they have further roles in the story later on) would be the Chairman (assuming it actually is Embisson Ruhl) or Fire (Book 4 spoilers: Lord Lanir, who holds the position of Seated High in Fire). I think Green loaded up all the spoilers in this chapter because she was going for an impending sense of doom in an attempt to raise the stakes. Except she's chosen the "secret conspiracy" brand of doom instead of "evil ruling openly" which does not work at all. The whole hook of the secret conspiracy is trying to uncover what the conspiracy is - and Green's just gone and blurted out the whole punch line. Now when we get to the chapters where the main characters making discoveries, it's boring because we've already been told the answers and the characters themselves are not doing anything interesting or entertaining as part of discovering the answers. The whole "secret conspiracy" angle results in a lot of middle school "hee hee we're smart and they're so dumb and they don't even know it" gloating and string pulling by the various antagonists to create useless drama which is tedious to read. And of course, the promised Big Bad never shows up in any of the books. So in order of importance: 1) Bring back the Big Bad - find magical reasons to have the Evil Four show up in the flesh and attempt to enslave everyone in the Empire in Book 3 as promised in the book's blurb as per Prophecy 2) Drop the "secret conspiracy" and go with "this system sucks" - the protagonists (willing or unwilling) know going in it's a rigged system and spend their time trying to get out or break the system without being discovered 3) Based on the two points above, I'd drop this chapter as entirely unnecessary. It's basically an info dump and does nothing to move the plot forward. Leng fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Aug 31, 2020 |
# ? Aug 31, 2020 14:47 |
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This loving book posted:So you see some of us had an easier time of it than others. Meeting each other, I mean. None of that first part was easy, nor were the times that followed. I often found myself wondering if it was really worth what we were putting into it, but most of that came later. It was when—Oh, all right, I'll tell it in the order it happened. There were other things happening as well, much of which we either heard about later, or put together with guesswork. You see, it was—All right, all right, I'll stop telling them about it and show them! But if you feel so strongly about my innocent comments, I'll just have to make fewer of them in future. Is she writing this down or telling it out loud? What is this?
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# ? Aug 31, 2020 19:37 |
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We'll see Tamrissa working on her "journal" in Book 5. The way the scene plays out, she's probably sitting there writing and everyone else in the main cast just wanders past from time to time to read over her shoulder and offer unsolicited opinions/commentary. Given Tamrissa's rage issues, her mental state at that point as well as the events happening in the main storyline, it's actually pretty stupid. The journal device probably could work if it was done more skilfully and involved Tamrissa doing actual reflection. Unfortunately all of her commentary are unfunny "tongue in cheek" scribbles in the margin. If we're talking trashy fantasy novels, then Cassandra Clare did actually execute this well in The Shadowhunter's Codex. The reason it worked though was because: 1) the published book is a companion book pulled together based on Clare's world building notes, not a novel trying to tell a story; 2) it is supposed to be an actual in-world textbook for Shadowhunters and we see the protagonist referring to it often throughout the early books; and 3) the scribbled notes in the margins are from multiple characters and are a mix of a) the protagonist doing actual reflection on the contents tied in with key plot points throughout the main storyline b) three of the main characters scribbling juvenile things to each other, in the same way that people passed notes or wrote in each other's books when bored in classes before cell phones existed and none of these factors are present in Green's books.
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# ? Sep 1, 2020 03:33 |
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quote:CHAPTER SEVENTEEN Hahaha you guys thought we were done with Day 1. Nope, we've still got to get through dinner which is split across two chapters because...reasons. quote:"Did you tell her that that part of it should be discussed with you rather than me?" I asked, fighting to wake up the rest of the way. "I'm lucky I know that I got back here." You packed everyone into a coach with drivers you pay to take them to a destination that you specified. We've already had in-text confirmation that your employees aren't susceptible to bribes and that you've drugged all successful applicants to do as they're told. This makes no sense. quote:I took her hand somewhat gingerly, never having shaken hands before. It had always been something that only men did, but this Eltrina Razas acted as if it were perfectly natural. quote:She wore an emerald green suit and cream blouse, with a matching cream-and-green hat on her carefully styled brown hair. There was a line of tiny embroidery all along the hem of her skirt where it brushed her shoes as well as along the cuffs of her jacket, an indication that her outfit was rather expensive. But her manner was open and friendly, so I tried to return her smile. This is about as long as we'll like Eltrina for. It all goes downhill from here. quote:I stood where I'd been left and watched them, not quite knowing how to behave. The woman was a member of the nobility, and dealing with the nobility was something else I'd never done. On a day with so many firsts, it would have been nice if I hadn't felt half asleep. Remembering eight names in a sequence is...not hard? quote:"Yes, Warla is an excellent companion," I agreed, leaning back in the chair because I really needed to. "I've never relied on her quite this much before, but I don't expect to be disappointed. I wonder if I might—ask something." That's the euphemism Green's going to go with for rape? quote:"No, he made no effort to go beyond simple rudeness," I admitted, more than a little disappointed. "If that changes I'll have to insist he be sent elsewhere, but I suppose I can live with the situation for now. Is there anything else I need to know about?" quote:"One or two things," she answered, that warm smile flashing again. "And you're so reasonable, I can't tell you what a pleasure it is to deal with you. Some of the others who volunteered their houses . . . Well, I'm sure you know how stubborn some people can get. In one case we actually had to withdraw all the applicants, and cancel the agreement making the house a residence. That's one of the reasons we're so short of space, but I know we won't have to do the same thing here." We haven't gotten much info about women's rights under the law other than the "living under your father's roof" thing, but presumably since the house wasn't part of Gimmis' business dealings, it's actually Tamrissa's property. Even if it stopped being an official residence, it still belongs to her rather than her father and she's also been co-opted into the whole competition thing, where she'll either end up dead or on the Fivefold throne. Tamrissa should not care about this whatsoever. quote:"Now let's discuss one of those things you need to know," Eltrina continued, her good mood completely restored. "It's come to our attention that you've used the lodging fees we paid to buy food for the applicants. There's nothing wrong with doing that to start yourself off, but those fees are meant for other things. I'll be setting a figure they'll have to pay weekly in order to eat at your table, and the silver will go directly into your food budget. If one or more of them are unable to pay, I'm afraid you'll have to refuse them a place at the table." This really needs to be part of the terms and conditions of applying for your house to be classed as a residence. quote:Hearing that was something of a shock, but not an overwhelming one. I'd never been allowed to have anything to do with running the house while Gimmis was alive, and I'd only recently begun to get the hang of how it was done. Not having to bother now was actually more of a relief, but then an uncomfortable thought occurred to me. This brings up a good point - if Tamrissa's father got all of her ex-husband's business interests, how exactly does Tamrissa have the funds to staff and maintain the house? quote:"Am I mistaken, or does that mean I can be barred from the table as easily as anyone else?" I asked, now feeling disturbed. "It sounded as if the lodging fees would be disbursed by someone else, and if so I don't know where I'd get the necessary silver. I don't have any money of my own, you see, so—" Oh right, she doesn't! Why didn't we get this important information about her desperate situation back in Chapter 4? It would have made the fight with her mother mean something and the comments about Tamrissa being destitute and living on the streets would have had context. quote:"No, no, that won't be a problem," she soothed, quickly leaning forward in her chair. "You're correct in believing that you'll be subject to the same rules as the others, but you haven't yet been given the silver for living expenses that all applicants are given. I have yours and Pagin Holter's, who also comes from Gan Garee. He's one of your seven guests, and if you haven't met him yet you soon will. And don't forget about the bonuses in gold that will be offered during your future competitions. If you earn the bonus, you'll be able to keep it and spend it—but only on yourself. Sharing with other applicants is strictly against the rules." This is a stupid rule that is unenforceable. quote:Yes, it would be, I realized with a sigh. The bonuses in gold were there to tempt people like Vallant Ro into doing their best, or simply to keep themselves eating if temptation didn't enter into it. It was an idea easier to get along with than the pass-or-die of the first test, so I couldn't quite bring myself to criticize it. Do we need to add suicidal to Tamrissa's list of attributes? quote:"I'm glad to see you're wearing your identification," she went on, gesturing to the chain and card I'd put back around my neck. "No one not wearing the same will be served or fed, and I'll make that clear to the other applicants as well. And the last thing we need to discuss right now is clothing, yours and everyone else's." Look, it's grown up magic school! With uniforms and everything! quote:And Warla certainly must have obeyed, I realized as I took the small pouch she removed from the silk handbag which matched her suit. Even Warla wasn't completely mine any longer, but I swallowed the urge to protest as I rose to put the pouch of silver in a safe place. There was no turning back now, not from the testing and certainly not from my plan to escape my parents. Nothing could be worse than what they had in mind for me, so going forward was nothing but a step in the right direction. It would not turn out to be just as bad ... it couldn't. . . ! You just admitted you have no money of your own. Warla's not a slave, she's your employee. How were you planning to pay her? quote:Vallant Ro walked into the dining room slowly, still beyond moving quickly despite the nap he'd had. Nothing short of a full night's sleep would help, he knew, but first he had to get something to eat. His insides were rumbling like a thunderstorm in the distance, and sight of the table set for eight was enough to make his mouth water. If the food wasn't brought quickly, he just might attack whoever did bring it eventually. So many writing lectures attack adverbs for good reason - reliance on adverbs to convey action or emotion makes for lazy writing: "walked", "slowly" and "still beyond moving quickly" could have all been replaced with "trudged", a stronger verb that would have conveyed the way Vallant moved and his exhaustion. I am now super conscious about this. quote:The thought of attacking anyone or anything right now made him chuckle to himself as he looked around. The room's walls were papered in a boring floral pattern, but at least the dark rose drapes matched one of the colors in the paper and the seats of the chairs. The hardwood floor was polished to a spotless gleam, and the sideboard was a perfect match to the table and chairs. The chandelier was a bit much though, especially with most of its candles lit. That much crystal could easily blind the unwary, but once again it was a matter of cost taking precedence over taste. That's Beldara Lant, whom Jovvi passed on her way out of the bath house. The only reason she exists is because she's discount Tamrissa. quote:"It feels marvelous to get off one's feet, does it not?" the man to Vallant's left commented with a sigh. "I arrived here so late, I barely had time to use the bath house before being summoned to the meal. I'm Eskin Drowd, Earth magic." Green loves to arbitrarily tag her characters with adjectives like this, even though they've said or done things no differently to any of her other characters. Instead of trying to find ways to show Eskin Drowd being pedantic, she just shoves the description in there even though we haven't seen him being pedantic. quote:and then he looked beyond Vallant. "And you, my dear? Would you care to introduce yourself to us?" The Gandistran Empire is not large by any metric. It's about two weeks' travel by coach from one border to another and you're only testing 1,200 people in a year. quote:To expect a mere applicant to be known beyond the boundaries of her own area is folly, and there is folly enough for each of us in this life without our deliberately adding to it. Others hearing your remark might well have laughed, but Ro and I are gentlemen. For that reason I repeat: would you care to introduce yourself?" We'll never hear anything else about Regisard again, or what research that those universities actually produce of value. We've never seen the University of Lightsbridge from Tamora Pierce's Circle books either, but there was a clear role in the world for the place. Here, it's like Green thought randomly that a large Empire needs academics, academics exist at universities and let's shove a bunch of them in a city somewhere. Please, Beldara, tell me what exactly a Seated High does that is so awesome. quote:"Let me speculate a moment," Drowd said with a faint smile as he sat back in his chair, studying the angry woman. "Either one or both of your parents have told you that all your life, about how no endeavor but being a High is worthy of your attention. They're undoubtedly the same ones who constantly praised your use of the power, and assured you that you're known both far and wide. Am I mistaken?" Here's that unsubtle hammering of the theme about control and raising children again. quote:Especially since almost everyone else had now come in and taken places around the table at Warla's direction. A man sat silently to Beldara's right, dressed for all the world like a farmer and looking extremely uncomfortable and out of place. Directly across from Vallant was the fop Clarion Mardimil, dressed in another of those ridiculous outfits, this time in blinding green. But the man nodded to him in a stiff but civil manner, so Vallant nodded back. Clarion: *squee* my first bro friend!! quote:And then he forgot about Mardimil to look at the woman seated to the man's left. She had golden-blond hair and light eyes, and was as beautiful as the girl Vallant had seen in the bath house, just in a different way. This one seemed to be laughing silently at the world, her flawless skin glowing with the amusement. Even Mardimil was finding it hard not to stare at her, but the girl didn't seem to mind or notice. She simply smiled and nodded to the farmer on Vallant's side of the table, who darkened slightly but managed to smile back. Vallant: *tears off all of Jovvi's clothes with his eyes* Jovvi: Jovvi: "Hey Lorand, did you have a good ?" Lorand: quote:The last of their number was another man, seated to the beautiful woman's left, next to the empty chair at the head of the table. He was slight and dark and looked almost as uncomfortable as the farmer, which wasn't hard to understand. His collarless shirt must have been matched by knee breeches and hose, the usual dress of grooms and stablemen. Vallant had never come into direct contact with one of them, not when he preferred a deck under his feet to a saddle under his rump, but he'd certainly seen enough of them. Obligatory rear end in a top hat. You are not the center of every woman's universe. quote:"Good evening, ladies and gentlemen," the older woman said suddenly, pulling Vallant out of his stare. The stableman had already returned to his seat at the table, and Vallant hadn't even noticed. This is so stupidly inefficient. There's no reason to go through this song and dance - you could have just deducted the 3 silvers a week from the pouch of silver you gave each person for passing. I get that this is supposed to be some sort of power play, except Green's forgotten to do the other half of it - i.e. restrict their ability to leave the residence. quote:"Another thing some of you will have to fetch is your identification as an applicant," the Lady Eltrina went on, now looking at them with a shade less friendliness. "You were told to wear it at all times, but half of you have come down here without it. From now on anyone appearing without identification will not be fed, even if he or she has already paid the necessary silver." Even something that's supposed to be dehumanizing reads so flatly. quote:"As a final matter, you must all be ready just after luncheon tomorrow for the carriages which will come for you," Lady Eltrina said. "You will be taken to a tailoring shop which is familiar with our requirements, and there you will have fitted two outfits each for attending sessions in. The gentlemen will be given gray trousers and white shirts, and the ladies gray skirts and white blouses. You will also be expected to pay for the clothing, but a mere token rather than full price. If you use the shop afterwards to buy other, more usual clothing, then you'll pay full price. Now be so kind as to fetch the silver—and your identification, if necessary—so that I may leave you to your meal and the rest you undoubtedly crave." Aren't you guys so excited for the dress fitting scenes that will be forthcoming? quote:It wasn't a happy group which rose from the table, but it also wasn't a slow-moving group. Everyone was obviously just as hungry as Vallant, and the only way to make the food start coming was to pay. Tomorrow Vallant would visit his family's bank and draw some gold, to replace what he would spend tonight and tomorrow at the tailor. He still had some silver left from what he'd been given at the start of the trip, but not all that much. Spoilers: he won't do this. quote:And as he watched the girl from the bath house leave the room along with everyone else, he finally had to admit that he owed her an apology. Warla had told him that the owner of the house was named Tamrissa Domon, and the older woman had called herself Eltrina Razas. That left his bathing companion as Tamrissa, especially since she'd also worn her identification. He'd finally noticed that as well, after spending most of his time staring at her face. And that beautiful reddish-blond hair. . . . All it took for Vallant to get over what should be a pretty rough break up with his fiancé is one glimpse at a naked Tamrissa. This sure sounds like a mature guy ready for a long committed relationship. Summary: Day 1 Our Five protagonists arrive in Gan Garee and pass their tests with Great Drama. Everyone is sent to live at Tamrissa's house which is now an official residence for applicants. They meet each other via a series of lazily written exchanges set in the bath house because Green wanted to have people naked on screen for reasons before Game of Thrones made sexposition a thing. We get a spoiler laden chapter from the creepy dudes administering the tests that flat out states everything is rigged and people have been dosed with mind control drugs to ensure their absolute compliance. Lady Eltrina Razas shows up to boss everyone around and implement pointless attempts at dehumanizing the protagonists. We're 17 chapters in and we still haven't finished dinner on Day 1. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 13 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 16 COACH RIDES: 9 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 14 "CLIFFHANGERS": 8 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 3 BATH SCENES: 5 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 2 MIND CONTROL: 5 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: The point of this chapter is to convey the dehumanization of the protagonists and set up a jailer/prisoners dynamic in a genteel setting. I guess it kind of achieves this purpose but everything is written so on the nose that reading this is a chore. My preference would be to have these rules known in the background and only discovered by the characters as they go about their business - in which case this shouldn't be a chapter at all but just small events that happen along the way. Leng fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Sep 1, 2020 |
# ? Sep 1, 2020 04:44 |
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quote:CHAPTER EIGHTEEN Annnd...the waving contest begins. It's been like a few hours, max, and Lorand has already forgotten his resolve to be nice to Clarion post bath encounter. Curiously, "fool" is a weird insult for Lorand to call Clarion in his head; if anything, Lorand felt like he was the foolish one and their last interaction established that Clarion was the useless one. quote:"Ladies and gentlemen, thank you," Eltrina Razas said at last, hefting the pouch she'd put the silver in. "Our business is concluded for the moment, so I wish you hearty appetites and a pleasant night. When I return, I'll have your session schedules. Warla will name each of you for the others, and then you'll be left to your own devices." Eltrina Razas considers herself a Very Important Person and narratively speaking, there's nothing contradicting that. What's bizarre is that the government apparently considers it a good use of a Very Important Person's time to send them around collecting food money from people and basically showing up to make announcements. quote:"Ladies and gentlemen, the names are as follows," the girl Warla said, sounding frightened to death rather than sure and confident the way Eltrina had. "At the head of the table is Tamrissa Domon, owner of this house. Beside her on her left is Lorand Coll, then Beldara Lant, then Vallant Ro, then Eskin Drowd, then Clarion Mardimil, then Jovvi Hafford, then Pagin Holter. Please enjoy your meal." I'm pretty sure Vallant's fantasizing about spanking Tamrissa right now because he has no self control whatsoever. quote:Her curtsy was hurried and very self-conscious, and the Razas woman was amused when she followed Warla out of the room at a much more leisurely pace. Lorand heard a very faint "Finally!" along with a sigh from the girl who had been named Tamrissa Domon, so he smiled at her. As if we haven't already had five POVs on how hungry everyone is, we need to go through the motions of awkward small talk on this subject as well. quote:"I wonder what those sessions will be like," Lorand remarked, mostly to keep himself from noticing the bread and cheese and soup that hadn't quite reached the table yet. He would not make a pig of himself by immediately bolting down what was put in front of him ... "I intend to pass whatever they throw at me just the way I did today, but I can't help wondering what that whatever will turn out to be." You guys, what happens in the testing room stays in the testing room. quote:"I will pass," the red-haired girl to Lorand's left put in, joining the conversation as if she had every right to do so. You're all strangers meeting for the first time in your forced communal living situation. This is not a private conversation, so yeah, actually Beldara has every right to join in on the conversation. quote:"To say you 'intend' is to say you have doubts, and I have none. Since you heard my name you now know who I am, which certainly confirms what I said. I will be the Seated High, and nothing and no one can stop me." The penny finally drops, 18 chapters in. quote:Her tone of voice said she couldn't quite picture herself ruling at all, let alone for twenty-five years, and Lorand knew just how she felt. It was one thing to aspire to a High position, another thing entirely to try for the Fivefold Throne. There had been plays and books written about people who'd dreamed about that, and most of them were either comedies or tragedies. So how did these books turn out to be neither comedic nor tragic? Though if you take that to mean the quality of the actual writing, then I guess these books would qualify. quote:"Of course, that explains everything," the red-haired girl to Lorand's left breathed, apparently having missed what Tamrissa had said. The girl looked as if she'd been struck with revelation, and a delightful one at that. "Now I understand why I qualified for testing this year rather than any other. I'm meant to be part of the winning Blending, to fulfill my full destiny and rule." That's a badly written line of dialogue. Is this Beldara's second attempt at passing? Or does Beldara mean she wasn't a confirmed Middle until this year so last year she was still considered a Low? How rapidly does magical strength develop so that you could be considered a Low talent into your late teens and then suddenly develop into a Middle or a High? quote:"I'm afraid your destiny comes up a bit short for that" a voice drawled, and Lorand glanced around to see that it was the fool Mardimil who spoke. "All members of the current Blending are from the nobility, which you would know if you moved in the proper circles. As the members of most of the Blendings before them were also the same, you should have chosen your place of birth a bit more carefully. Destiny favors those with all the proper qualities." Lorand persists in mentally referring to Clarion as a fool when he's done nothing foolish. quote:"Obviously you're all too jealous to admit the truth," the girl said smugly, somehow managing to be even more annoying than Mardimil. "But now that I know what my purpose in life really is, I don't care how jealous you are. When I'm crowned as one of the new Blending, I may even forgive you." Should I be keeping a count of how many times the word "fool" is used?? Maybe Green doesn't know any other insults. quote:Clarion was so hungry he all but inhaled what was put before him, barely even noticing that the house cook was more than adequate. He'd been prepared to eat anything at all, even lower-class food, just so long as it filled him. And diverted him from that fool of a girl across the table. To think that a female dressed in cotton would consider herself a possible candidate for the new Blending! She was as blind and empty-headed as the rest of her class—and seemed to match at least one member of his own class. It doesn't qualify as a conversation when there was no conversing! Also, hate on Eltrina all you want, but she's got a good point here. quote:Rather than argue, Clarion had bowed stiffly and continued on his way to fetch that idiotic identification card and the piddling amount of silver the woman had demanded. There wasn't much of the silver left after that journey, so tomorrow he'd have to pay a visit to Mother's bankers here in Gan Garee. A good portion of his last allowance still remained credited to him, enough so that silver would be the least of his worries. Ah yes, the ultimate way to tell how a woman is worth anything - just look at what she's wearing. That way, you don't have to bother about getting to know them as individual people. quote:and showed surprisingly good taste as well as something of well-filled purses, but that wasn't what seemed to attract Clarion to them. He honestly had never seen two women more beautiful, and for the first time in his life there were stirrings within him which weren't being banished by Mother's presence. The stirrings were decidedly uncomfortable, but for some reason it pleased him that they remained. quote:Perhaps he would even find it possible to do something about them . . . You would be wondering whether Clarion's thinking about or but I can tell you that spoilers for the end of this chapter it's neither, he's thinking about talking to them because Clarion has never masturbated in his life and Chapter 22 spoilers Clarion doesn't know how babies are made until Lorand gives him The Talk. quote:But not at the moment. Right now it was his hunger that he assuaged, a prospect made even more pleasant by the appearance of platters of meat and bowls of vegetables in various sauces. The one lack was a decent wine to go with the rest, but in all honesty Clarion wasn't certain he could manage wine right now. A single sip of it would likely stretch him out for the night, leaving all that marvelous food to go to waste. The tea they'd been provided with would have to serve, at least until he returned to himself. What? Exhaustion doesn't equal reduced tolerance for alcohol. quote:And until he had a tighter rein on his thoughts. Even as he let another bite of the tender roast melt in his mouth, his mind insisted on pursuing the thought that this was a twenty-fifth year. The present Blending would soon be replaced, and he happened to be right on the spot among those who would vie for the honor. Of course, his current companions were beyond consideration, but there were certain to be noble Blendings assembled for the contest. If he should decide that the effort wasn't unsuitable for a gentleman like himself, perhaps . . . This is the most unnatural dinner table conversation ever. It will only get worse from here. quote:She left the thought unfinished, but Clarion found himself nodding along with the other two men. Power and safety, two things the Seated Blending enjoyed above everyone else in the empire—and beyond. The adjoining realms of Gracely to the east and Astinda to the west had begun with their own Seated Blendings, but somehow the process had broken down through the centuries and now it was said that every High capable of drawing power had his own small area over which he ruled. The borders of their own realm Gandistra had been steadily growing over the years at the expense of Gracely and Astinda, which proved the point. The Fivefold Throne represented power and safety impossible to match anywhere on the continent. This will be plot relevant in Books 4 and 5, and is the basis for the A plot in Books 6-8. quote:"It's been projected that in another thirty years or so, Gandistra will encompass this entire continent," Drowd said, nearly reading Clarion's thoughts. "Our expansion has been more rapid than most people realize, and I've even heard mention of the fact that across the seas are lands inhabited by unregenerate savages. Book 8 spoilers: it's actually the other way around! Gandistra is the backwards Empire on the backwards continent and the advanced nation of full Blendings in on the other continent. quote:If our expansion should become more rapid still, there may well be a place other than quiet retirement for this new, incoming Blending to go when their service to the empire is done. Savages need to be ruled by those with experience in ruling, and where would one find greater experience than among a retiring Blending?" Green at least got this part of Drowd's character right: an academic who is focused on debating extremely academic questions that have no practical application or relevance to the actual issues in present reality! (no offense to any academics reading this: I'm saying this because in my industry, academia is ridiculously divorced from practice and irrelevant to the point that any time I get handed a research paper or attend a conference, I spend my time wavering between rolling on the floor in hysterics because the research questions are so useless or getting angry because they are drawing actively harmful conclusions based on flawed methods. I am super jealous of industries where academics are at the leading edge of developing new and useful knowledge that actually changes how things work in practice) quote:"I'm not sure I approve of the idea of expanding to the next continent," Jovvi Hafford said suddenly, a faint frown marring her beautiful brow. "I knew a seaman once who visited the Tondron continent at least three times a year, the freighter he served on plying the trade route which has been used for centuries. The people in Tondron aren't savages, they simply have a way of life that doesn't include being ruled by a Blending. Not a single Blending, at any rate. I had the impression that most people became part of one, but I never got the details involved." I forgot that Green named a random continent. We will never hear of it again after this chapter, not even when Book 7 spoilers when unstoppable invaders attack Gracely and Book 8 spoilers the advanced nation of full Blendings manipulating things from the shadows confesses all (and what little we learn of their society would fit this description). quote:"That's because the man had to be lying to you," the red-haired girl said immediately with a sound of ridicule. "Only savages would consider getting along without a ruling Blending, and if you don't believe that ask anyone in Gracely or Astinda. They don't have Blendings either, and soon they won't even have separate realms. You really must learn not to be so gullible." It's pretty hard to control territory on a different continent and force them to identify as part of the same "realm" when they are literally not part of the same landmass. quote:"Listening without preconceived ideas isn't being gullible, my dear," Jovvi corrected gently with an amused smile before Clarion could jump to her defense. "I can see how well you like the idea of lording it over everyone for the rest of your life, but just because you were allowed to do that until now doesn't mean you're guaranteed to continue doing it. For your own sake, you'd better stop being so gullible." quote:A definite sound of scorn came from the redhead, and then she was back to being aloof and no longer a part of the conversation. The behavior was obviously typical of her, but happily it supplied a reason for Clarion to speak to the vision on his left—but not in a way she might find daunting. Beldara's sitting right across the table from you. You realize she can HEAR YOU even if she's actively ignoring you right? She already got a bitch smack down, don't be a jerk who piles on - that's not a classy move. quote:"So your identification says," Jovvi replied with a marvelous smile, sharing the jest with him rather than making him the butt of it. "And what do you think of the plans to extend our influence, Clarion Mardimil? Are you for allowing people the freedom to do as they please, or for smothering them with your own definition of what's right?" Didn't you already have a full on boner from before? quote:"Is that sherbet?" she asked, then made a sound of satisfaction when her observation proved itself to be true. "How delightful. Now my palate will be cleared for the next course." This is why I find it so hard to believe that Jovvi's supposed to be this deft manipulator of people in social situations. The only people who say stuff like this are the people desperately trying to prove something and in the process prove exactly the opposite. quote:That was the purpose of sherbet, of course, and Clarion was delighted to see that she knew it. That certainly took her firmly out of the category of peasant, something Clarion didn't want to believe of her. Nevertheless he meant to avoid stressing his true place in life, to also avoid the loneliness of standing aloof. The Lant female had done that to herself, obviously not having grown up in the sort of isolation which Clarion had. But he had no intentions of repeating that, not again, not here . . . Clarion turned to his own sherbet, but in a moment the conversation was taken up again in a different quarter. ...oh, I get it. Green needed a way to make Jovvi bangable for Clarion while he's still in his noble mindset. quote:"I'm inclined to agree with Mardimil and the lovely Dama Hafford," Ro said from across the table, looking at Drowd. "If people in other lands have found a way to live that pleases them and does us no harm, what right do we have to interfere with their lives? It would be the most colossal arrogance to assume that we know better about what's right for them." "My protagonists are such worldly, mature and wise people that they have no problems putting an academic in his place while conveniently stating my theme bluntly enough that the dumb readers reading this book couldn't possibly miss my point!" quote:"That's begging the question," Drowd countered, no longer as pleased or self-satisfied. "If something is right, it's right for everyone. If it's wrong, it's wrong for everyone. That's something you can't argue with." This is the first time I'm actually GLAD a POV character is tuning out of something. quote:He'd been shaken by Jovvi Hafford's words even more than by Ro and Drowd's, but the confusion buzzing around his head refused to let him understand why. What they'd said didn't apply to him in any way, so why were his hands cold and nearly trembling, and his mouth dry? The situation was quite ridiculous, but banishing it was apparently beyond him. This is Green's go to technique whenever a character is being confronted with uncomfortable truths. Instead of letting us see how the character wrestles with the issues and how they decide one way or another, she just sticks in a paragraph where they go "oh I'm so confused!" Sanderson is upfront that he loves writing a lot of introspection and he went into a bit of detail about how he approaches writing introspection in one of his lectures. The lecture itself is a bit of a Q&A so it jumps around too much to link a specific part so I'm going to post my notes instead: Introspection * Try to break it up * Make sure there is a point to the introspection and there is a key takeaway for the reader - e.g. something has been accomplished, establishing motivation or flaws and becoming aware of them * Most of it should be reinforcing character arc - At some point, most arcs involve reassessing goals - wants vs needs, coming to understand the need and giving up the want - Most will also follow the 3 act structure - moving from inaction regarding their flaw to action, and also having a bad relapse with consequences - Most character flaws will link up with the external plot at some point - either they have to give up something to achieve the plot goal, or they risk a relapse into dangerous territory in order to accomplish something If we use this framework, it becomes very clear why all of Green's internal monologues suck - there's never a key takeaway to any of them! quote:Clarion sat back in an effort to regain control of himself, and had almost managed it by the time the next course was brought. Chilled fish with a tangy sauce it was, just the thing to attract his weakening but still-active appetite. The others also let themselves be somewhat distracted by the newly arrived dish, but not to the point of abandoning their discussion. Their pointless, ridiculous discussion which had nothing to do with him, and which he therefore ignored. Leave it to the lower classes to upset a gentleman without even knowing they did it-After the chilled fish came tidbits of chicken and various sauces to dip them in, and that finally settled Clarion's hunger. A light dessert of banana slices mixed into butter-cream topped it all off, and by then no one at the table was still part of a discussion. That bad punctuation in the middle of the paragraph appears in the ebook; I don't remember it existing in the print version. I am so confused at why I'm getting more specific description about the food than about the setting or the characters. You could argue that the food is part of the setting but I don't buy it; I'm betting that this is what Green ate the day she was writing this chapter. At least when GRRM gave food descriptions, he was specific enough that fans were able to publish a cookbook that you can buy on Amazon. quote:Everyone seemed to feel the waves of exhaustion rolling over them as strongly as Clarion did, so he wasn't the only one to finish his tea, rise and bid a general good night, and then head for his room. Clarion had meant to discuss the size of his quarters, but at the moment it was simply too much trouble. Tonight he felt he would find it possible to sleep propped in the corner of a broom closet, but tomorrow would surely be another matter. This guy is in his early twenties. quote:Clarion climbed the stairs to his room with a smile of anticipation on his face, but that uncomfortable hardening had returned to his body. He usually had to exercise hard to rid himself of the condition, but possibly tonight his exhaustion would see to the matter. Tomorrow, however . . . Yes, tomorrow would definitely be another day. Literal. Man. Child. Summary: Day 1 Our Five protagonists arrive in Gan Garee and pass their tests with Great Drama. Everyone is sent to live at Tamrissa's house which is now an official residence for applicants. They meet each other via a series of lazily written exchanges set in the bath house because Green wanted to have people naked on screen for reasons before Game of Thrones made sexposition a thing. We get a spoiler laden chapter from the creepy dudes administering the tests that flat out states everything is rigged and people have been dosed with mind control drugs to ensure their absolute compliance. Lady Eltrina Razas shows up to boss everyone around and implement pointless attempts at dehumanizing the protagonists. Highlights of the dinner conversation include: every male protagonist getting raging for Jovvi and Tamrissa, Jovvi verbally bitch smacking Beldara, Pagin Holter clueing the oblivious in to the fact it's a twenty-fifth year, and Vallant and Jovvi blasting Drowd with some blatant moralizing on about how controlling other people and invading other nations is bad. Why am I supposed to like any of these characters? None of them have done anything remotely funny, interesting, intelligent or cool. They are off the charts for whiny, dumb, sexist, classist and incompetent though, so surely things can only improve from here! Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 13 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 16 COACH RIDES: 9 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 14 "CLIFFHANGERS": 8 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 5 BATH SCENES: 5 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 2 MIND CONTROL: 5 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: Said it before and I'll say it again: I see no reason why this chapter needs to exist. There's no reason for the main characters to be oblivious to the fact it's a twenty-fifth year! We began the story expecting a political intrigue culminating in magical battles for the Fivefold Throne and got 18 chapters of filler before the protagonists realized they're competing for a spot in a challenging Blending. During those 18 chapters, we've had no character growth and no advancement of the main plot in a setting so devoid of description that it's evoking a sense of boredom instead of a sense of wonder.
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# ? Sep 1, 2020 15:14 |
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Oh god. I thought I hallucinated these books, but no, they continue to exist like a choose your own adventure romance series where you're forced to read all of the potential paths in turn. Edit: I had to go look it up, but did you know these books won Green a Phoenix Award in 2001? quote:The Phoenix Award is given to the professional (writer, editor or artist) who has done the most for Southern Fandom. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Sep 2, 2020 |
# ? Sep 2, 2020 01:25 |
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Liquid Communism posted:Edit: I had to go look it up, but did you know these books won Green a Phoenix Award in 2001? No I did not. Like my writing sucks but I'm reasonably certain it doesn't suck this bad. Does that mean there's hope that I too can win an award???
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# ? Sep 3, 2020 03:30 |
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quote:CHAPTER NINETEEN In this episode of "boring things the main characters did today" Green has no choice but start Day 2 with Jovvi waking up because as we all know if you don't see a character waking up in the morning, how would you even know the night had passed? quote:Jovvi's enjoyment evaporated at the thought of Allestine and the confinement she was determined to escape. So far her plans hadn't gone well at all, especially since she'd begun to wonder at those plans. Her ultimate aim was to be so wealthy and powerful that no one would ever be able to control her life again, and last night she'd been shaken to realize that she stood within reach of the ultimate place of wealth and power. Being a member of the new Blending . . . At this point our main cast is not aware that the competitions are rigged. quote:Don't you remember what the boy said about it being nobles who were chosen? You may have nobles as patrons, but you can't be silly enough to think you're one yourself." This line of thinking therefore makes no sense. The premise of this world is that everyone has magical talent. We've had no world building to establish that nobles come from bloodlines with greater magical strength. If Jovvi really had a practical nature, she'd be pointing this flaw in Clarion's logic rather than swallowing his argument whole. quote:Her talent with Spirit magic was just an asset to be used like any other, not something to use in an effort to pretend she was better than everyone else. Those who talked themselves into believing they were superior in every way usually proved just the opposite with everything they did. Yes, it's such a useful asset that one or two weeks ago, you told Allestine you have no idea how your own talent works. quote:Which was what Jovvi had planned to do, before delusions of fantasy had begun to turn her head. In all practicality it would never be possible to become a member of the new Blending, but the temptation to try for it was so unbelievably strong. You are being held captive and forced to compete. You have nothing to lose by trying. quote:She'd better remind herself again about what the boy had said, repeating it over and over as necessary. No direct mention in text, but the only way Jovvi could be picking up this information is if she was holding on to the power the whole time during dinner and just casually invading everybody's mental privacy. quote:Her thoughts broke off as she heard a very small but unexpected sound, at the same time feeling a wetness on her bare left foot. She looked down expecting to find herself imagining things, then blinked at what should have been imagination but wasn't. About halfway between her knee and her ankle a tiny cluster of thunderclouds floated in midair, dark and threatening with lightning flashing through them and thunder rumbling around. And rain coming down from them, which was what had wet her foot and part of her nightdress. What does Jovvi even mean by this? Alcohol doesn't cause hallucinations. quote:That was the point she realized someone must be playing a joke, but who they might be and how they were doing it was beyond her. The only ones at the table with Water magic were Vallant Ro and that shy little stableman, Pagin Holter, and neither of them seemed the type to play jokes. She'd expected a frank and direct suggestion from Ro because of the way he'd looked at her, but using a practical joke to get her attention? It wasn't at all likely, and the same held true for Holter. His yearning interest had been quite clear, but all traces of intent to follow up on the feelings were entirely absent. I'm just as surprised as Jovvi that Vallant hasn't propositioned her already. quote:Jovvi's foot was beginning to get cold, so there was only one thing to do: get rid of the clouds no matter how adorable they were, and then act as if nothing had happened. That should make the prankster reveal himself, to find out what had happened if for no other reason. And it was faintly amusing, that she was willing to grant. Why is Jovvi mopping up? Surely you'd call Warla at this point. quote:and then Jovvi went to work on the problem of where to hide her gold. If she were going to be fitted for new clothes today, she couldn't very well carry it with her. But she also had no intention of leaving it lying around for the house servants to find. It had to be well hidden but easy for her to get to, and then she'd be able to dress and go looking for breakfast. Dinner last night had been quite substantial, but she'd slept for many hours and was now ready to sit down to another meal. That's right! We just got through dinner and now we get to read about breakfast as well. Maybe I should start a count of each meal we have to read about. quote:And possibly to speak to that nice Lorand Coll again. He was certainly handsome enough with a lovely body, but the unusual steadiness inside him was even more attractive to her than his looks. Not that she was in the midst of searching for a steady male friend. That fit not at all into any of her plans, not even the fantasy ones. . . . Spoilers: she's going to proposition him anyway. quote:Lorand walked slowly down the stairs on his way to the dining room, glancing around to see if he could spot the practical joker. He'd awakened somewhat earlier feeling well rested and back to his usual self, and had gotten up with the intention of dressing and going to breakfast. Halfway across the floor he'd suddenly discovered that someone had put together a tiny thunderstorm in his room, and the thing was raining all over the back of his nightshirt. He'd found it possible to see the miniature clouds and their lightning only by twisting around at the waist, but he hadn't had any trouble hearing the small thunderclaps. Lorand is Not Smart. Thankfully Green has somewhat learned that it'd be super boring to read about all five of her protagonists wake up and get rained on. She's moved on to changing POVs as they go through their daily routines and having their internal monologues all cover the same plot points. Because it's Really Important for them to all make the same decision regarding Significant Events. quote:Lorand walked into the dining room to find only two of the others there before him, the man Eskin Drowd, who already sat in his place at the foot of the table and ate, and Clarion Mardimil. The latter stood at a long table set up on the side of the room, a number of odd, covered dishes with long legs arranged on the table. Small containers of what looked to be some sort of oil bubbled gently under the tall dishes, no doubt thanks to some servants with Fire magic. But none of the servants were currently in the room and Mardimil was helping himself from a dish he had uncovered. That had to mean it was proper for Lorand to do the same, which came as something of a relief. He exported to get used to being served by someone other than his mother eventually, but he hadn't yet reached that point. Another error that exists in the ebook. Also, how sexist is this world that a farmboy Lorand expects to be served by a woman at every meal? I've got one kid and I can't imagine having any more. Lorand has multiple brothers! Raising multiple kids is no joke; if I were his mother, I'd be leaving them to serve themselves. quote:Walking around Mardimil to the left showed Lorand a stack of empty platters and a neat row of forks, so he took one of each and began to look in each of the covered dishes to see what they held. The first two held things Lorand wasn't able to identify in their cooked state, so he continued on until he reached the chicken livers in the third. They seemed to have been fried somehow and smelled wonderful, so he spooned some out onto his plate and went on with his search for eggs, potatoes, and bacon. That was what breakfast meant to him, but it didn't seem to mean the same to these people. A potential High in Earth magic can't identify what two of the foods are. quote:Mardimil paid no attention to him as they both moved along their own sections of the table, but Lorand couldn't help remembering what he'd decided. He owed Mardimil an apology for what he'd said in the bath house, and putting it off wasn't likely to make the effort any easier. If he kept his voice low, the conversation would be private even from Drowd, who sat at the far end of the eating table. Eating table, dish table. Lorand shook his head over people who made them two different places, then used his finally having made a hoped-for discovery to start the conversation. Last night you kept thinking about Clarion as a fool; and now you're going to be nice and apologize for being a jerk? Lorand's characterization is all over the place. quote:Lorand nodded, glanced at a Drowd who paid no attention to them, then lowered his voice. "I'd . . . like to apologize for what I said yesterday," he forced out in a murmur. "It was entirely uncalled for, and you can be sure I won't do it again." Clarion: quote:"Whoever told you that lied," Lorand answered, feeling shocked and hurting for this very innocent victim of life. "A true friend is someone so close to you that you don't mind helping them, because you know they'd do the same for you. A friend is someone you care about, and—" Yeah, somehow I don't think Lorand is the right person to teach Clarion all about the nature of friendship. quote:"Is something wrong?" Mardimil asked, still speaking hesitantly. "I don't mean to pry into something that's none of my affair, so if you'd rather not discuss it . . ." More like hypocrisy! quote:Lorand answered heavily, feeling very depressed. "I came here with a friend, someone who's been a friend for most of my life, and we tested at the same time. I . . . was afraid to ask about him after the test was over, hoping I'd find he'd been sent to the same residence I was, but he's not here. That became obvious last night, but I didn't even think about him. Makes me a really great friend, doesn't it?" You idiot. Why would you jump to this assumption just because Hat didn't get sent to the same residence? He could have been put in a different one and you wouldn't know any different because you made no effort to find out what happened to him. You dumbass. quote:Clarion watched the man Coll head quickly for the table without investigating the rest of what the buffet held, and Clarion sighed for him. He could only try to imagine what it would feel like to lose someone close to you, since he'd never had anyone close but Mother. And he'd done quite a bit of thinking about her, both last night and this morning. Last night you were hoping exhaustion would make your go away. If you really were reflecting on your childhood in light of last night's dinner conversation, you wouldn't be re-treading the same ground here. quote:Not that they had been small children. They and Clarion had all been sixteen or so, and Mother's explanation of their behavior had fit the situation. They were Clarion's social peers, she had said, and they naturally resented having been deprived of Clarion's presence among them. They were old enough to know how precious his company really was, but not yet old enough to realize that they couldn't possibly be considered fine enough to merit it. This hot mess of an internal thought process is supposed to justify why Clarion makes a complete 180 in his "I'm a noble" attitude and starts acting like a five year old with way too many "why" questions. quote:And then that practical joke had been played on him, which at the time had seemed to make things worse. He'd gotten out of bed to pace while he considered his problem, and after a moment or two he'd noticed the oddest thing: a tiny thunderstorm raining all over his right arm. Where the miniature clouds had come from he had no idea, but the sleeve of his nightshirt was becoming drenched along with his arm. Green belatedly remembers that she's set Clarion up as a noble who can't stand breathing the same air as peasants. quote:And so Clarion had dressed and gone down to breakfast, only to be delightfully surprised when that fellow Coll made the opening advances for him. The apology had been totally unexpected, and it had thrown Clarion far enough off balance that he'd responded unthinkingly in what had turned out to be the best way possible. Clarion's admission of ignorance over certain matters had brought a sympathetic and helpful reaction from Coll, and possibly would do so again once the man was over his distress at what had become of his friend. Not content with having every character go through the same beats at every stage of the story, Green decides we also need to see each interaction between the main characters from every POV and also that the internal monologues need to cover the same beats too! quote:Vallant came down the stairs feeling faintly annoyed, but that feeling disappeared entirely when he caught sight of his hostess standing in the hall below, speaking to two of the servants. Today she wore a dress of pale yellow embroidered with small ivory flowers, and the night's sleep seemed to have worked really well for her. Incredible as it was, she looked even more beautiful than she had yesterday, something Vallant would have sworn was impossible. He slowed his pace on the stairs, deciding that that would be the perfect time to offer that apology he'd decided to make. As soon as the servants were through speaking to her, he would take their place. Stop. Objectifying. Women. quote:But in the meanwhile he had a few minutes, so he used them to wonder what could have gotten into that man Pagin Holter. The little groom hadn't seemed to be the sort to play practical jokes, so maybe the tiny thunderstorm that had tried to drown Vallant in his room had been more of a challenge. It could have been a matter of, "Look at what I can do," but if so even that matter was taken care of. Removing all the moisture from the miniature clouds had ended the storm and any challenge together, the whole thing done firmly but quietly. You were very clearly interested last night. quote:Vallant's thoughts broke off when he saw the servants getting ready to walk away from Tamrissa Domon, his signal to start moving closer. His timing was good in that he'd just finished descending the stairs, so he ambled over and stepped into the place the servants had just left. At this point Tamrissa has no idea that he doubted she owned the house since that was all in his head. If you regret stupid thoughts you had about someone else that they are unaware of, you don't go over and insult them by telling them what you were stupidly thinking and then apologize for it! What kind of rear end in a top hat move is that? quote:"Excuse me, Dama Domon, but I'd like to speak to you for a moment," he said when she raised those incredible violet eyes to look up at him. "I owe you an apology, and I'm always rather strict about payin' my debts." Guess what Tamrissa's mad about? We've already had 4 POVs on this subject so this should be an easy one. quote:"What else is there to apologize for?" he asked in turn, feeling somewhat confused. "I covered the matter of bargin' in on you at the time, a circumstance which you should have understood since you shared it. What else did you have in mind?" Yeah, dude, not a smart move to bring that up right now. quote:"If you need me to tell you that, then I'd be wasting my breath," she returned, looking up at him defiantly. "By all means have your fun, Dom Ro, but don't make the mistake of getting in my way when the tests begin again. Unlike you, I mean to go through to the very end of them, and I refuse to let some overgrown child upset me. I will win through, do you understand me?" There goes Vallant, projecting what his ex did onto every single other woman he interacts with. Way to go dude. quote:"You're quite right, Dom Ro," she said, her face now pale rather than flushed, her voice trembling faintly. "I'm completely used to getting my own way because of my beauty, and the practice is much too pleasant to give up. Unlike you, I dislike giving up, preferring instead to stand victorious and proud. And now, if you'll excuse me—" You mean apart from the fact that you're a sexist rear end in a top hat who constantly objectifies women and says horrible things to survivors of domestic abuse and rape? quote:"I can't stand someone with talent being too afraid to exercise it," she answered, now clearly fighting to keep her voice steady. She lived two years with a sadistic abuser and never once exercised her talent in self defence. quote:And her eyes, the indescribable look in those breathtaking eyes . . . "It may sound good to say you have other things to do with your life, but I think the truth is you're just too afraid to try something you may fail at. Warla is like that, and a lot of other women, but I'll never be. That, Dom Ro, is what I dislike about you, and now I will appreciate your getting out of my way." She's told you twice to leave her alone. No means no, Vallant. quote:As soon as her path was clear she moved toward the dining room, her back straight and her head up but her pace a little too fast to be called a stride. She all but ran to get away from him, possibly to keep from contracting the dread disease that he suffered from. She'd sworn she'd never be that pitifully low and despicable, but she did seem to think the condition might be catching. . . . ...that's right. Vallant's claustrophobia is the real reason he didn't want to run a shipping empire. Somehow his debilitating fear of enclosed spaces never came up during conversations with Mirra when they were shacking up in tiny tavern rooms. quote:"So why bother thinkin' about what I might do under other circumstances?" he murmured, the bitter end of the argument he would never put into words. "Go ahead and call me a quitter, it won't change anythin". I can't change what I am even if the most beautiful woman I've ever met disapproves. I'm used to bein' a disappointment to beautiful women, especially the ones accustomed to gettin' their own way." Actually, you're not. You're used to thinking that you're the center of any woman's universe, regardless of how you rate her looks. quote:Vallant made a sound of sour amusement, wondering why he always seemed to attract that sort. Or be attracted by them. Her violent refusal to join his counter-illustrious ranks was something different, but the rest of Dama Tamrissa Domon was probably just like Mirra, the girl he'd thought he would be happy to marry. Happy, certainly, he would surely be happy. But not with Mirra and not there, in stifling Gan Garee. He would get back to the Sea Queen, and then he would be happy. I think we're supposed to feel sorry for Vallant at this point, because he's been a gallant gentleman whose manhood has been trampled all over by admitting to the truthful accusation he's a coward by his love interest. But all I can say is Vallant, you're a dick. Summary: Day 2 Jovvi, Lorand, Clarion, Vallant and Tamrissa head down to breakfast in various states of perplexity/rage because they've been rained on by a tiny thundercloud. Unbeknownst to Vallant, he's one of the prime suspects. Jovvi's thinking about how to string all the men along, Lorand is depressed because he's jumped to stupid conclusions regarding Hat's death, Clarion is excited about making his first friend ever, and thanks to another stupid misunderstanding, the Vallant/Tamrissa drama has just escalated to the next level. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 13 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 4 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee PLOTHOLES: 16 COACH RIDES: 9 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 1 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 16 "CLIFFHANGERS": 8 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 1 BLATANT MORALIZING: 5 BATH SCENES: 5 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 3 MIND CONTROL: 5 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: The whole purpose of this chapter is to show us Prophecy-related hijinks. We've now ticked off Fire and Water, with three more aspects to go. I think someone needs to tell Green that when you're writing a novel, the point is to show only the INTERESTING parts of the story. She'd be arguing that these are Important Events (and she's not wrong as far as her intended story goes) but my counter argument is you need to show Important Events happening in INTERESTING settings. Her world building is so shoddy that Book 8 spoilers while there is basis for the Prophecy, the signs are completely manufactured by the advanced nation of full Blendings on another continent. And even though they've had generations to work on coming up with some appropriately dramatic signs, what they come up with is so boring that none of them are interesting, with the flashiest thing being the fireball. The biggest problem with the way Green's set up the Prophecy is that her Prophecy is not actually a Prophecy in the first place!!! I'm gonna quote the actual words of the Prophecy that we're given in Book 5 plus the crap in the Prologue: quote:Beware and be warned. In three hundred years will come a time of greatest crisis, a time when the teachings of wisdom are no longer followed. This will presage the reappearance of the devastating evil of the Four, which nearly destroyed our empire. In this time of crisis there will appear a Chosen Blending, and there will be no doubt of their identity. They will stand against the reemergent evil, and will do their utmost to triumph. Compare this to a snippet of the Karaethon Cycle from the Wheel of Time: quote:Fortune rides like the sun on high Or the Terris Prophecies from Hero of Ages (Mistborn 3): quote:The Hero of Ages shall be not a man, but a force. No nation may claim him, no woman shall keep him, and no king may slay him. He shall belong to none, not even himself. The WoT and Mistborn prophecies work because they are specific enough that readers paying attention to the symbolism in the text can see how characters grow to fulfil the prophecies through their actions. Green's Prophecy is so vague that I don't blame the Seated Highs in Chapter 16 being all " how are we supposed to notice any signs of anyone who might be one of the Chosen Blending?!" We talked before about how there's no apparent religion in this world, other than a few references to the Highest or Prime Aspect, Fate and Chaos here and there. Spoilers for Book 5 with the Sight magic reveal, you begin thinking that the source of the Prophecy is a very powerful Sight magic user and then in Book 8 it's super disappointing to realise that the Prophecy came from the advanced nation who foresaw an invasion of the Gandistran continent, sifted through the various alternate futures and went, yep, we can prevent that from happening by masterminding a secret breeding program to breed the strongest High talents possible, and then once we have those individuals, we'll manufacture some 'signs' for the strongest one in each aspect and call it done. It is the most unsatisfying conclusion to a story relying on the prophecy trope that I've ever read. Green concludes the second series with a literal "a (bunch of) wizard(s) did it!" and lifts the curtain on it all to explain in painful detail why it happened that way. I do not know how to fix this easily. Options:
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quote:CHAPTER TWENTY Green's actually done an ok job here of using the back to back different POVs of the same event. Though Tamrissa really should pull her head in and think - as everybody else pointed out, Vallant's not the only Water magic user in the residence! quote:Only the fact that there were other people around kept me from shaking my head as I sat down at the table. One word had led to another with Dom Ro, and when he'd gotten angry I'd felt that very familiar clutch of fear in my middle. But this time I hadn't let it paralyze me the way it usually had with Gimmis, and I'd been ready to protect myself with everything I had. The man must have seen that because he'd stepped out of my way, and I'd been able to escape here to the dining room. This crippling fear doesn't appear to have any effect on Tamrissa other than conjuring more backstory info dumps like this. In the three situations where she's been threatened and afraid so far she's:
If Green really wanted to show us character growth, we should have started by seeing Tamrissa actually fail at overcoming fear in a high stakes scenario, and then later begin her journey by overcoming her fear in a small stakes scenario. And her internal monologue should be going through Tamrissa's thought process, so we understand how she's overcoming that fear. Let's compare this with Sanderson writing Kaladin struggling with depression in The Way of Kings: when Kaladin reaches the Shattered Plains, he's assigned to Bridge Four and we find out that they don't have a bridge leader because he tossed himself off a cliff into Honor Chasm. Kaladin goes on a bunch of bridge runs and realizes that bridge duty is basically a death sentence. His magical companion leaves, causing his depression to spiral further and he decides to commit suicide by jumping in Honor Chasm. As he's about to step off the cliff, his magical companion returns: "Those men in the bridge crew," Syl whispered. "You could help them." "Too late." He closed his eyes, thinking of the dead boy earlier in the day. "It's too late. I've failed. They're dead. They're all going to die, and there's no way out." "What is one more try, then?" Her voice was soft, yet somehow stronger than the storm. "What could it hurt?" He paused. "You can't fail this time, Kaladin. You've said it. They're all going to die anyway." He thought of Tien, and his dead eyes staring upward. "I don't know what you mean most of the time when you speak," she said. "My mind is so cloudy. But it seems that if you're worried about hurting people, you shouldn't be afraid to help the bridgemen. What more could you do to them?" "I..." "One more try, Kaladin," Syl whispered. "Please." One more try... The men huddled in the barrack with barely a blanket to call their own. Frightened of the storm. Frightened of each other. Frightened of what the next day would bring. One more try... He thought of himself, crying at the death of a boy he hadn't known. A boy he hadn't even tried to help. One more try. Kaladin opened his eyes. He was cold and wet, but he felt a tiny, warm candle flame of determination come alight inside him. It's a long scene, but we see Kaladin's thoughts spiral downwards leading him to make a decision. Before he can put that decision into action, his magical companion makes a counterargument. We then see Kaladin thinking through that counterargument, becoming convinced and then making a different decision. It is a huge turning point in both his character arc as well as the overall plot and it's extremely satisfying to read as a result. quote:Able to continue on to the dining room, I amended as I began to eat. Gimmis was dead, so I no longer had to think in terms of escape. I was now a free woman and would stay one, no matter how many people tried to change that. Vallant Ro hadn't liked being called a quitter, but I'd suddenly seen he was precisely that. A grown man of his size, handsome and charming and filled with an unconscious but very forceful authority; what could he know about fear, and how hard some people had to fight not to fall victim to it? Winning my way through the tests could well mean escaping the fear for good, so that was a goal I refused to abandon. Hahaha, Vallant's VERY conscious of his own authority. Wasn't his "Master-of-the-vessel snap" evident to you? quote:I spent a few moments simply eating, but then an anomaly in my private arguments pushed forward to take my attention. I'd accused Vallant Ro of being afraid to exercise his talent to the fullest, and then I'd silently demanded to know what he could possibly understand about fear. If the man pretended disinterest in the tests to keep from finding out how far his ability could take him, he had to be afraid of something. It was impossible to imagine what that something could be, since Dom Ro appeared to have enough self assurance to supply a small town. You'd think that if Tamrissa has the inner capacity to realize when she's being dumb and illogical, she'd be taking a note of it so she can avoid jumping to conclusions in the future. Not-spoilers (because you guys know how this is gonna go): nope, she will never learn to do this, not even in the last chapter of Book 8. quote:Breakfast continued along in the same silent way, as though all of us were too wrapped up in private thoughts for casual conversation to divert us. Many of them must have been thinking about my own main topic, which was the reminder we'd been given about this being a twenty-fifth year. Green has deliberately decided that we needed to see breakfast happening, because the only time her characters interact with each other is at meal times and bath times in this forced communal living situation. These are quite possibly the most boring events in the day. I can't decide which is worse: bouncing around POVs during awkward dinner conversation or awkward silent meals where everyone's eating but not interacting and making stupid assumptions about everyone else. quote:Funny how I'd known that without having considered it, as though it were so far out of reach that it wasn't worth thinking about. Now it was no longer that far out of reach, even though my becoming a member of the new Blending wasn't very likely. No matter how much gold my father had we still weren't members of the nobility, and all of the most recent Blendings had been composed of nothing else. What I now wondered, though, was the possibility of a way around that. . . . The illogical line of thinking Clarion raised continues. quote:Breakfast broke up in almost the same order it began, except for Vallant Ro being one of the first to leave. I decided to try to find him in order to offer that apology, but he wasn't in his room or anywhere else I could find. Then I was captured by members of my staff who needed instructions on various dealings with our guests—in spite of my no longer being in charge of anything—and that took up most of the rest of the morning. Green conveniently makes Vallant disappear so this relationship drama can continue. Tamrissa could have gone to talk to him during breakfast or followed him when he left. quote:By the time I escaped from updating household records and approving menus and setting up service rotations—it was such a relief not to be in charge for the length of the tests—it was time for lunch. This is our strong, independent heroine here. "Oh doing paperwork and logistics is so hard - I'm so glad I don't have to take care of it!" quote:This time there was some small amount of conversation, but none of it touched the topic of the new Blending. It seemed we were all saving that for another time, and even before we rose from table we were told the coaches had arrived to take us for those fittings for our new clothes. At least we didn't have to listen to the awkward small talk over lunch. quote:Two coaches were pulled up in front of the house, back-dropped by the storm clouds which had been gathering for the last hour or two. We three women took one of the coaches together, which meant one of the men had to ride with us. It was something of a relief when that turned out to be Eskin Drowd, the young academician and Earth magic applicant. I'd been afraid it might be Vallant Ro, who hadn't given me the chance to apologize—but who had taken to staring at me in a very odd way. The whole "men are from mars, women are from Venus" thing is really irritating. quote:"My goodness, what a terrible burden this is to bear," Dom Drowd said with a grin as he settled himself beside Beldara Lant. Jovvi Hafford sat to my right, the place she'd chosen after Beldara had taken the seat opposite mine. "Three exquisitely lovely ladies, and myself the only man amongst them. Ah well, life demands that we take the bad with the good." quote:"How odd," Beldara said, giving him a very cool look. "I could have sworn you'd forgotten to bring your silver down to lunch with you, and had to be reminded to return to your room to fetch it. Or wasn't that you who was nearly out the door ahead of everyone else?" Who talks like this?! This is some weird attempt at Regency-era style dialogue without any of the wit or subtlety. quote:"Truth and opinion are not interchangeable words," I pointed out, forcing myself to say that despite the drumming of my heart. "When it comes to proving which of us is best, we'll save the opinion and let the test results show the truth." Based on what we've seen from Jovvi's POVs, we should be expecting that she's got ulterior motives for getting Tamrissa on her side. Three guesses as to what she's got in mind! Chapter 24 spoilers: Yes she's going try to recruit Tamrissa as a courtesan to be part of her residence quote:But right now we were on our way to the tailoring shop, and the route the coach driver took became something of a surprise. We'd driven through the neighborhood I lived in and then passed a section of the business district, but after that we took a sharp left turn. That put us on a street I'd never traveled before, and after two blocks it was actually possible to see refuse scattered here and there on the walks. The farther we went the more refuse there was, along with a growing conglomerate of smells that began to turn my stomach. Three whole paragraphs and I still have no idea what Gan Garee is like as a city. quote:"With existence always so precarious for them, I've often wondered why they bother," Dom Drowd said, sounding as if he discussed a pack of wild and unimportant animals. "They can't hope to better themselves, not when they have no education, no talents, and nothing of any real value to offer. The government would do us and them a service if they took people of that sort and put them out of their misery." I would be more horrified by the methods the nobility are using to keep the general population under control if this was more specific and descriptive - like the mind control drugs that got spoiled in Chapter 16! quote:"And, of course, there are always those misguided souls who consider the nobility themselves unnecessary," Jovvi continued blithely on, apparently seeing nothing of the mottled color now staining Dom Drowd's face. "I'd venture to guess that everyone feels that way about someone, and deciding who is right would be a terribly confusing affair. Don't you agree?" Jovvi, who lives by the concept of "it never pays to make enemies where it was possible to make friends instead", has just made an enemy of both Beldara and Drowd. At this point, nobody has publicly demonstrated their power so as far as everyone's concerned, anybody could be the strongest and therefore one of the next rulers of the Empire. If Jovvi were behaving in character, she should be ingratiating herself with everyone. But because Green needs Jovvi and Tamrissa to be best buds for plot reasons, suddenly Jovvi has to "save" Tamrissa and alienate two strong magic users in the process. quote:There wasn't anything in the way of conversation after that, but the trip didn't last long enough for the time to become uncomfortable. In the midst of the soot-covered stone buildings and rickety wooden stalls and shops was a sturdy two-story house with a walled-in back courtyard. The front of the house obviously faced on another street, but the gate into the back courtyard had been opened to allow our coaches to enter. Still don't know what the city looks like. quote:By the time we pulled up to the back entrance, people had come out of the house. A moment's worth of study showed that although one of the men gave all the orders to the servants who were there to help us from the coaches, the woman standing to his left and just behind him had authority of her own. She studied we women as Dom Drowd and one of the servants helped us from the coach, her expression far from dissatisfied. Why would you describe a character's expression as "far from dissatisfied"?! This double negative is confusing and I can't tell whether it's Green who isn't aware of it or whether Tamrissa doesn't want to give another amateur porno description of herself and Jovvi. quote:There was a short time of confusion when we were led inside, the men being directed to the left and the women to the right. Beyond the door leading from the back entrance hall was a spacious workroom with seven seamstresses sewing away at a rather brisk pace, and a small cluster of comfortable chairs just to the left of the door. A tea service stood on a table near the cluster, and the woman I'd seen outside came in to gesture to the chairs. quote:"I was referring to my ability," Beldara began to grind out with gritted teeth and a flush to her cheeks, but by then it was clear that she'd wasted her breath. Regensi had turned away to snap orders at two of her workers, which obviously turned her deaf to any and all rebuttal. How is your magical ability relevant to looking good? Regensi has a point. quote:"Don't let this silliness disturb you," Jovvi began in turn to Beldara, clearly trying to soothe the girl's embarrassment and anger. Regensi's speech had been horribly tactless and insulting, but Beldara apparently had no interest in being soothed. She glared hatred at Jovvi and me before turning abruptly and heading for the chair farthest away from us, and Jovvi gave up her attempt with a sigh. If we and Beldara hadn't precisely been friends before, now we had probably become enemies. Now Jovvi's going to try and get on Beldara's side, after being a bitch to her? Yeah, Beldara's smarter than that; it's not gonna work. quote:"We really must remember to thank Regensi," I murmured, definitely vexed. "Without her help it might have taken us another two or three days to make Beldara hate us this much." Beldara has been extremely arrogant but hasn't actually gone out of her way to be unpleasant to anyone, other than the one condescending remark to Tamrissa in the coach on the way here. quote:"Wonderful," I said with my own sigh. "As if she was all that pleasant to begin with. And what a surprise that this happened over something as hateful as physical beauty. If I could trade my appearance for hers, she'd probably never believe that I would do it in a minute." Yes, let's hate on the only woman so far who has displayed any confidence in her magical ability and ambition to climb to the highest position of power in the Empire. What a nasty person! quote:Jovvi frowned at me and began to say something, but Regensi came back then to remind us about sitting down and having tea. While the tea was served and sipped at for a time, she lectured about how important she was in the world of fashion even if most people had never heard of her. Then she interrupted herself to direct Beldara into a fitting room with one of the fitters, but resumed the lecture once that was seen to. Why are we getting this information? Beldara hates Jovvi and Tamrissa, antagonism established, we can move on! quote:Jovvi was taken in last, and by the time she came out again even I was tired of sitting and waiting. Beldara had divided her time between pacing all over the sitting area and returning to her chair to stare expressionlessly at the skirts and blouses being worked on by the seamstresses. During one of those times I caught the look in her eyes, which made me want to shiver. If she wasn't considering the possibility of "accidentally" setting every piece of cloth in the room on fire, I've never seen the urge toward vindictive revenge. Or felt the same myself. . . . It's totally ok when Tamrissa has homicidal tendencies, but it is definitely not ok when someone else has them. quote:Regensi insisted on making Jovvi sit down for some tea before finally letting us leave, and as much as Jovvi needed those few minutes off her feet she was just as relieved to get out of there as the rest of us. We stepped outside with me, at least, feeling as if we'd been released from prison, unsurprised to find that it was almost evening. Our new clothes had been promised for delivery the next day, and even if they turned out to be ill-fitting rags I had no intention of complaining. Anything to keep from having to go back for another fitting . . . The purpose of this entire paragraph has been to tell us that the day's over. quote:"That was rather expensive for what we'll supposedlv be getting," Jovvi remarked softly as one of the servants went looking for our coach driver. "I've been left with two solitary silver dins." By definition, "two" is not "solitary". quote:"So was I," I agreed, surprised by the coincidence. "I wonder if I should be glad I brought only a small portion of the silver I was given yesterday. Do they make a habit of leaving people with only two coins no matter now much they bring in? How would they manage something like that without seeing inside our purses?" This ability will never come up again after Day 2 (though of course we will have to read about it from the men's perspective for completeness reasons). I wish Green would write an alternate story about Jovvi seducing Lorand into being the Clyde to her Bonnie as they scam and rob their way across the Empire. quote:I joined her in looking toward our third, but we might as well have spoken to the wood of the building behind us. Beldara gave no indication that anyone in the world retained life but herself, and she had no interest in talking to herself. Jovvi's latest attempt to smooth things over between us and Beldara had failed as badly as the first one, but this time Jovvi was more exasperated than sympathetic. Most people don't normally talk to themselves in front of other people. Also if you wanted to be friends with Beldara you should have tried harder to not be a bitch this morning. There was definitely a middle ground between supporting Tamrissa and actively insulting Beldara. quote:"People who refuse to accept the world as it is sometimes manage to make it over according to their own specifications," Jovvi commented, looking at Beldara's turned back with no approval at all. "More often they find themselves plowed under when the world gets around to remaking them, and usually because those fighting it have no idea of what accommodation means. Some people and situations have to be accommodated if you mean to change the rest, and pretending that that isn't so is the worst kind of self-delusion." What is Jovvi even talking about? Why the hell has everyone assumed that Beldara can't possibly be as strong as she thinks she is? There's nothing to support this assumption! (I know it's because women who put themselves forward are immodest and bad, yada yada yada) quote:I expected Beldara to respond to that at least, but she continued to stand there hearing nothing and saying even less. I felt tempted to admire her singlemindedness, then decided to wait until I saw how far it got her. My own determination now seemed pale in comparison to hers, but it also seemed a lot more reasonable. Grit is apparently a bad thing for characters other than the protagonist to have. quote:"I wonder what happened to the second coach," Jovvi said, bringing my attention to ours and the driver now beginning to drive it over to us. "I know it takes less time to fit men, but there were five of them and only three of us. If they're already back at the residence, I just may throw a temper fit." Since Vallant rode up top with the driver for most of his trip to Gan Garee, you have to wonder why he didn't jump at the chance to do the same during Day 2. quote:"That sounds like they made Pagin Holter their guide, and went to have a look at the city," Jovvi said. "If I weren't so played out from being used as a lifeless dressform, I'd be interested in seeing the same. You do know the city well enough, don't you, Tamrissa?" Jovvi: "Hey can we go check out the brothels and other houses of sexual pleasure?" Tamrissa: "I'm a sheltered innocent who knows nothing about these things!" quote:I do, however, have one small item of interest back at the house, and you ladies are more than welcome to share it with me." Jovvi, you don't have to fake this one. No one's paying you for anything here. quote:I had to laugh at that, but Beldara was still in her own private world. The servant had already helped her into the coach, and although I'd included her in on the invitation it was fairly clear she had no intention of accepting. Which was just as well, since I had no real interest in sharing my secret pleasure with anyone but Jovvi. I felt certain she would enjoy it as much as I did, and I didn't care to waste it on someone who was sure to find fault no matter how good it really was. This is the last time they'll try to include Beldara on anything. quote:And it would be nice to have another woman I could really talk to. As I settled myself on the seat beside Jovvi, I wondered if it would turn out to be possible for us to be friends. I'd never had a real friend, my parents had seen to that, and even my sisters and I had been discouraged from growing too close. We'd been like a group of strangers who happened to live in the same house, but now . . . maybe freedom wasn't the only priceless thing I'd finally have a chance at. How the hell do parents discourage siblings from being too close when they all live in the same house? I'm an only child here, so people with siblings please enlighten me. I always thought that siblings had a choice in how close they are because, you know, children are people in their own right. Summary: Day 2 After an angsty, silent breakfast where everyone is stewing in their own thoughts, and a lunch with boring small talk, everyone is taken to be fitted for their Grown Up Magic Not-School Uniforms. Jovvi deliberately alienates Eskin and Beldara so Green can establish the best friendship of Jovvi and Tamrissa. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 14 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 5 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop MEALS ON-SCREEN: 4 (I'm starting this counter because I'm curious whether Green ever skips showing us a meal) Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner) PLOTHOLES: 16 COACH RIDES: 11 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 2 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 16 "CLIFFHANGERS": 8 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 2 BLATANT MORALIZING: 10 BATH SCENES: 5 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 4 MIND CONTROL: 5 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: The Jovvi/Tamrissa friendship would feel stronger if Jovvi saved Tamrissa from a situation where Tamrissa is unable to save herself. Like what we get in Chapter 26. The better way to set up the Beldara/Tamrissa rivalry would be to do it in a scene where they are both using Fire magic. Like what we get in Chapter 28. So this whole chapter (all 4878 words of it) is useless and should be incinerated into a pile of ash and used for fertiliser. Again.
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# ? Sep 3, 2020 23:14 |
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Goddammit, I'm mad you beat me to covering these dumb books. I've been keeping an eye out for a copy at the used bookstores for months now with no luck. Well it's probably for the best; it's a good rundown even if it's from a Sanderson fan Rereading them now, it's clear Green is a really sub-tier Mercedes Lackey. The long internal monologues, the moralizing, the padding, I'm tempted to grab one of her books and start posting comparative passages because they're that similar except you're never at a loss for what something looks like in a Lackey novel. Queen of exposition that one. As for these books, I think I remember liking Rion the best (though he had the worst relationship) because while his head started out farthest up his rear end, I remember him being the first to pull it out and just enjoy his new friendships and being friends with benefits with the girls. I know the weird incest vibe you're getting from his Norman-Bates relationship with his mom is probably deliberate especially considering the incest that comes up later on with a different character and the over all theme about parenthood The dismissal of Romance as light fluff tends to make people forget it's an explicitly moralizing genre, so it's not unusual to have some heavy-handed lessons in a romance book. Green is just really lovely about it because she's a really lovely author.
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 13:08 |
Half your critiques of the characters not crawling or taking the logical action read to me of the typical nerd nitpicking of why the characters didn't act rationally when it seems Green is going for characterization, like Jovvi being too proud to crawl or thinking she's a master manipulator when her real talent is getting horny men to do stupid poo poo and having mind control powers. I can speak from personal experience that men can get real stupid when a pretty lady says she needs help. Of course, this is Green so it's not clear how intended this is as Green would be sure to repeat this at least five times.
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 20:39 |
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there wolf posted:Goddammit, I'm mad you beat me to covering these dumb books. I've been keeping an eye out for a copy at the used bookstores for months now with no luck. Well it's probably for the best; it's a good rundown even if it's from a Sanderson fan I hear StrixNebulosa is selling a set! And alternate/additional takes on the books are welcome in here - we're all here to make fun of the terrible writing and I like hearing other views! there wolf posted:Rereading them now, it's clear Green is a really sub-tier Mercedes Lackey. I have never read any Mercedes Lackey and now I'm giving serious thought to not ever reading Mercedes Lackey. there wolf posted:As for these books, I think I remember liking Rion the best (though he had the worst relationship) because while his head started out farthest up his rear end, I remember him being the first to pull it out and just enjoy his new friendships and being friends with benefits with the girls. Yeah, me too. I think it's because Rion is the only one who is a noticeably different person at the end of the books, whereas the rest of the characters never really change more than superficially (Green obviously intended the changes to be more substantive, but they feel superficial). I mean obviously you can tell that kind of story if you want, but then it's a different type of story to the one Green's trying to write. TheGreatEvilKing posted:Half your critiques of the characters not crawling or taking the logical action read to me of the typical nerd nitpicking of why the characters didn't act rationally when it seems Green is going for characterization, like Jovvi being too proud to crawl or thinking she's a master manipulator when her real talent is getting horny men to do stupid poo poo and having mind control powers. I can speak from personal experience that men can get real stupid when a pretty lady says she needs help. I like this idea. This would fix Jovvi's arc (i.e. actually give her an arc). TheGreatEvilKing posted:Of course, this is Green so it's not clear how intended this is as Green would be sure to repeat this at least five times. Spoilers for the rest of the books: can tell you it was definitely not intended as the good characterization you suggested, based on the other characters' POVs of Jovvi, plus the general perception of the main Blending by all other characters
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 00:29 |
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Leng posted:I have never read any Mercedes Lackey and now I'm giving serious thought to not ever reading Mercedes Lackey. Phoenix and Ashes by Mercedes Lackey posted:Her eyes were so sore and swollen from weeping that she thought by right she should have no tears left at all. She was so tired that she couldn't keep her mind focused on anything; it flitted from one thought to another, no matter how she tried to concentrate. Opening page of the first one I found. Lackey has been my go-to airplane trash for years, but there's nothing you've indicated about your tastes that make me think you need to read her at all. Maybe you'd find it interesting from a writing wonk perspective because her and Green's styles are so similar with Lackey being far more competent as a writer. Maybe. Jodi's character makes a lot more sense as someone who's lived a fairly restricted life under the control of her madam for years, and has a strong, but naive talent for manipulation which she's never used for much outside of her work of seducing and pleasing clients. Unfortunately Green also has this backstory where she's a tough street girl who's clawed her way into a better life with all the wit and skill that implies. She's probably the least consistent of the group, but also does the least amount of "but my damage" whining if I remember, so points for that.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 03:57 |
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there wolf posted:Opening page of the first one I found. Lackey has been my go-to airplane trash for years, but there's nothing you've indicated about your tastes that make me think you need to read her at all. Maybe you'd find it interesting from a writing wonk perspective because her and Green's styles are so similar with Lackey being far more competent as a writer. Maybe. Yep, based on that extract can confirm you're 100% correct. My choice for trashy airplane reads is anything Cassandra Clare. there wolf posted:Unfortunately Green also has this backstory where she's a tough street girl who's clawed her way into a better life with all the wit and skill that implies. This is exactly my problem with Jovvi! We have a flashback where Jovvi remembers digging through garbage to eat food thrown out by other people. Anyone who's done that is obviously not too proud to drop and crawl if their life is at stake. there wolf posted:also does the least amount of "but my damage" whining if I remember, so points for that. I'm gonna disagree there, it's obviously Naran who I actually don't recall seeing any whining from, even in POV chapters!
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 23:35 |
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Naran is disqualified on account of being barely a character. Oh, and I meant to ask before, but if you do end up rewriting this crap are you going to go with the logical end of having the Blending pursue same-sex romances as well? If loving each other makes for a stronger bond, then that should apply equally to everyone.
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# ? Sep 6, 2020 14:02 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 15:08 |
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there wolf posted:Naran is disqualified on account of being barely a character. Fair point! there wolf posted:Oh, and I meant to ask before, but if you do end up rewriting this crap are you going to go with the logical end of having the Blending pursue same-sex romances as well? If loving each other makes for a stronger bond, then that should apply equally to everyone. That plothole bugged me no end as well! She's made the partner swapping sex mechanic so integral to the magic that you have to pick an extreme and stick with it. Since I don't read romance and I am not well versed in poly relationships or what it's like to be bi, etc any attempt to show all of this in an appropriate way on the page without it being hilariously bad or downright offensive would require massive amounts of research. Therefore my options are to: 1) cut out the sex mechanic entirely to focus on the main storyline, fixing the rest of the plot holes, writing decent characters and leaving room to follow one romance subplot and another (non) romance subplot 2) keep the sex mechanic and make it gender equal, but stick to one POV: I'd still be stuck with four five romance sub-plots, though I could arguably cheat like Green and be heavy on showing one default romance sub-plot and have the others basically happen off screen 3) fix the broken sex mechanic, and do the massive amount of research necessary to write a decent romance/erotica story in a fantasy setting: because instead of three romance subplots vs one main storyline, we'll end up with 6C2 = 15 romance subplots vs the main storyline at which point all pretense of being a fantasy novel should be abandoned As the purpose of this was a writing exercise for me to work on the basics of plot, characterization and prose, #3 probably is a greater investment of time and effort than warranted so I'd be leaning towards #1 or #2. #1 is my current preference though, because as an amateur writer, I don't think I have the skills to pull off #2 to a decent level even when cheating - there's just too many plot lines to manage, all of them in a genre that I don't normally read. While I'm confident enough to say that I think my attempt at #1 would be better than what Green's produced, I'm still fairly certain it's not going to be good writing. But it's a lot less intimidating to only have to focus on one main POV, one main plot and one or two subplots instead of six or fifteen!
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# ? Sep 6, 2020 22:34 |