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Which season should the next animated reconstruction be from? This poll is closed. |
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| Season 1 (Marco Polo) |
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13 | 18.57% |
| Season 2 (The Crusade) |
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1 | 1.43% |
| Season 3 (Galaxy 4/The Myth Makers/The Daleks' Master Plan/The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve/The Celestial Toymaker/The Savages) |
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25 | 35.71% |
| Season 4 (The Smugglers/The Highlanders/The Underwater Menace/The Evil of the Daleks) |
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16 | 22.86% |
| Season 5 (The Abominable Snowmen/The Web of Fear/The Wheel in Space) |
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11 | 15.71% |
| Season 6 (The Space Pirates) |
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4 | 5.71% |
| Total: | 70 votes | ||
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excellent bird guy posted:I think I prefer 70s Who to 2005. I watch on and off but it's just a bunch of people screaming, loud noises, and one liners. "Hands? Who needs hands, when you got CLAWS." I mean it's good but the subtle ambience of low budget nick at night style tv is I think more soothing. I even liked the first doctor quite a bit. With ya on that. Not to say I dislike any of the actors who've played the Doctor since the series came back (and I'm very happy to hear Eccleston will be returning to the role for Big Finish  ), but it started to leave me cold partway through Tennant's run and I gave up on it entirely about halfway through Smith's run. It's fine that it exists and that people dig it, it's just not my cup of tea.
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Aug 18, 2020 08:26
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 18:13 |
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RTD was a massive fan of shows like Buffy, and that rapid-fire mix of quip-quip-HORROR, quip-quip-EMOTION carried through into his version of Who - and stayed there with the subsequent showrunners. It's rare that a scene, however scary or dark or powerful or uplifting it's meant to be, plays through without some kind of joke or one-liner, as if to reassure the audience that "hey, this is all meant to be fun, don't take it too seriously!" It could be argued that Who's always been like that, especially with Troughton or Tom Baker, but their funny moments generally came from the combination of character and situation, rather than "there hasn't been a joke for two minutes, the Doctor needs to make a quip/be wacky here." (Although obviously Tom trying to wrest control of the show from the producers could take it down that path.)
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Aug 18, 2020 14:39
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https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1295772457270489088?s=20
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Aug 18, 2020 18:37
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Sounds like this will be a full on meetung of the two, not some teasing where they spend 3 episodes running in opposite corridors and only meet in the last 10 minutes. I approve.
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Aug 19, 2020 12:34
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I can understand the quippiness being tiring, but wow, did the classic show have *terrible* *TERRIBLE* pacing. Moffat was probably drunk and unprofessional when he made fun of it, but he was absolutely right about that. EDIT: To avoid double-posting, the Doctor Who YouTube channel has been publishing these recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uk32Sk5ma0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNqusv6VbD4 Fair Bear Maiden fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 12:39
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I can understand the quippiness being tiring, but wow, did the classic show have *terrible* *TERRIBLE* pacing. What? No.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:22
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I can understand the quippiness being tiring, but wow, did the classic show have *terrible* *TERRIBLE* pacing. If by terrible pacing you mean there were more than a few episodes where people got captured, escaped, got captured again, escaped again, while running through corridors...well, that's because the show was produced in a weekly serial "cliffhanger" format, designed to entice the viewer to tune in again the following week to see how Our Heroes got out of their latest scrape. Having watched a bunch of Republic movie serials recently, it's definitely the exact same format classic DW draws upon. And I'd still take it any day over the cuurent show's painfully obvious (especially under Moffat's direction) attempts to be hip and cool and clever (though I will say from what I've seen of Jodie's run, that it doesn't seem to be nearly as obnoxious in that regard), or the new series' tendency to try and cram like 3 episodes worth of story into 45 minutes. The old show may have had a slower pace, but it also let the really good stories breathe and do some world-building. The new series just seems like it's rushing to get from one plot point to the next a lot of the time.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:04
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Classic Who ran long enough that you can't really say anything about its pacing universally. Some serials definitely have bad pacing, especially in the 80s. It's kind of incredible how watchable some of the really long serials are, though. There are 6-8 partners during the Hartnell and Troughton eras that fly by.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:23
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Bicyclops posted:There are 6-8 partners during the Hartnell and Troughton eras that fly by. Certainly not The War Games. 
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Aug 19, 2020 17:42
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I don't remember a single First Doctor story in which you couldn't cut at least a couple of episodes.
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Aug 19, 2020 19:19
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I don't remember a single First Doctor story in which you couldn't cut at least a couple of episodes. Imagine wanting to see less of the First Doctor
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Aug 19, 2020 19:46
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I don't remember a single First Doctor story in which you couldn't cut at least a couple of episodes. I would argue that The Edge of Destruction might be adversely affected by having a couple of episodes cut 
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Aug 19, 2020 19:52
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I first started watching early classic Doctor Who because I had nothing else to watch and then about 3 stories in I was like "holy poo poo this is amazing," as a 1960s relic, as a campy piece, and then just as sci fi storytelling in its own right. In many ways the first doctor is my favourite.
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Aug 19, 2020 20:45
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I particularly appreciate the Classic Who stories that properly take advantage of the serial format, like The Chase or The Keys of Marinus where they're a bunch of unique episode-long vignettes linked into an overall plot.Bicyclops posted:Classic Who ran long enough that you can't really say anything about its pacing universally. Some serials definitely have bad pacing, especially in the 80s. It's kind of incredible how watchable some of the really long serials are, though. There are 6-8 partners during the Hartnell and Troughton eras that fly by. It's the editing in the 80s that gets me. Some of the stories are put together incredibly choppily.
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Aug 19, 2020 22:50
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I say this every time it comes up but Keys of Marinus is a trash story taped together with bits Nation fished out of the garbage and it's SO FUN that who cares? It's like the TARDIS crew landed in a high school sci fi short story collection and just went with it.
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Aug 19, 2020 23:08
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The_Doctor posted:Certainly not The War Games. Technically correct
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Aug 20, 2020 00:03
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I miss slow quiet scenes. S12's 'Can you Hear Me?' has a couple, which I appreciate, but they're not really on the same level as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blzpa5oyUVg
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Aug 20, 2020 00:09
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The pacing differences aren’t just a Doctor Who occurrence either, they’re just part of the natural evolution of tv shows in the last 30 years. Everything is more cinematic now, plus your average DW story from the 60s-80s is usually almost twice (and often three or four times) as long as your 45-50 minute revival episode. That’s a lot more time to have quiet little asides and character moments.
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Aug 20, 2020 00:20
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I like quiet asides and character moments. Give me the scene in Rear Window in which they swirl brandy for 10 minutes and never even drink it. Give me the Twilight Zone close up monologues that don't advance the plot at all. Sometimes I like to breathe.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:34
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Bicyclops posted:Classic Who ran long enough that you can't really say anything about its pacing universally. Part Three Syndrome is definitely a thing, although in B/W it doesn't happen in Part Three nearly as often as it did in colour. (Okay, rope coming over!!!) One of the bigger disappointments for the 1989 cancellation has got to be how *finally* they'd bowed to the bleeding obvious and started doing 75-minute 3-parters, all of them just the perfect length for their stories except Ghost Light, which clearly should have been swapped for Battlefield (whatever else you want to say about Delta and the Bannermen or Silver Nemesis, it can't possibly be "you know, there really should have been 25 more minutes of this"), and then the show just disappears in a puff of indifference, and by the time it's come back TV's changed and Thou Shalt Not Do Non-Soap Drama Less Than 45 Minutes At A Time.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:13
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The pacing differences aren’t just a Doctor Who occurrence either, they’re just part of the natural evolution of tv shows in the last 30 years. Everything is more cinematic now, plus your average DW story from the 60s-80s is usually almost twice (and often three or four times) as long as your 45-50 minute revival episode. That’s a lot more time to have quiet little asides and character moments. Doctor Who always seems to be a product of it's time, whenever it is, and that translated to the new era as well, where RTD decided he wanted to emulate the Buffy the Vampire Slayer style of series with a Monster of the Week with the big bad plot weaved throughout, and Moffat only added to it. Someday in the future, Who will probably feel different because it will change to match TV at the times. I can already sense a slight shift in the 13th doctor stuff, leaning more towards the prestige tv edgy plot stuff (while still kind of being about monster of the week) but I imagine it will shift even more.
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Aug 20, 2020 03:21
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The War Games is 4 hours long and I love and appreciate and value every drat second of it. It's amazing.
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Aug 20, 2020 03:34
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I got into Classic Who watching the 90 minute PBS edits.They were pretty good at tightening things up, even if it was just cutting out opening scenes that redid the end cliffhanger of "last week's episode."
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Aug 20, 2020 04:06
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The pacing differences aren’t just a Doctor Who occurrence either, they’re just part of the natural evolution of tv shows in the last 30 years. Everything is more cinematic now, plus your average DW story from the 60s-80s is usually almost twice (and often three or four times) as long as your 45-50 minute revival episode. That’s a lot more time to have quiet little asides and character moments. Even something from around the same time as classic DW like Blakes 7, which was around 45-60 minutes per episode, was well-paced enough to allow for world-building, small character moments, etc. I never bothered to watch Buffy, but if RTD was so heavily influenced by it when he brought back DW, then it's probably not something I'd enjoy. The type of quippy remarks I enjoy are the ones where Avon and Vila are sniping at each other on the bridge of the Liberator, or when the Sixth Doctor is arguing with whatever story's main villain. But I wouldn't want an entire episode of nothing but those kinda quips.
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Aug 20, 2020 04:52
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People forget the technical aspects of quick cuts and edits: it isn’t just a matter of lots of camera setups, editing was much harder before digital video. Classic Who editing either involved film or worse, video tape editing. So the difficulty and expense in having a five-minute scene with dozens of cuts versus the same scene with one continuous shot led to completely different approaches to composing and pacing a scene. That the pacing is slower isn’t a bad thing. Theater is rarely as frenetic as modern movies or TV and it still works just fine.
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Aug 20, 2020 05:11
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One thing I miss about Old Who is scenes not involving any of the lead actors. There's still plenty of parts now where the companion or the Doctor will discuss current events/the state of the world with its inhabitants, but there's hardly any moment where they're just talking amongst themselves about what's going on. You've got great stuff like the carnie in Carnival of Monsters, or the stuff with the priest in Curse of Fenric. It's been an issue for most of the revival, but having three companions, I think, has just exacerbated it drastically. And where the hell are the scenes where the Doctor and the bad guy talk at each other? Where are they, Chibnall?! I bet they're really cheap to shoot! I skipped several episodes of this most recent series, but the only example I can think of where Whitaker gets the chance to harangue a bad guy is in the episode with King James.
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Aug 20, 2020 05:24
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Buffy has lots of quips but the characters being almost all high-schoolers makes it work a bit better than some of the shows it inspired. Plus the long American seasons give plenty of time for things to breathe.
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Aug 20, 2020 05:29
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Another great thing about The War Games is that it's fantastic, which is something more stories should aspire to be.
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Aug 20, 2020 05:35
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Buffy was clearly influential on the revival, but I don't think what RTD took from it was the quippiness. It's more the domestic setting being invaded by the supernatural; like half of Series 1 takes place on contemporary earth. Characterization, too, though that sort of thing you can trace back to Ace. And the sort of rapid-fire patter you get once Moffat takes over is clearly coming from his background in sitcoms more than Joss Whedon. Moffat comedy is pretty distinct from the sort of quips that dominate the Marvel movies, which have basically fully embraced the Whedon model.
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Aug 20, 2020 05:37
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dear president Clinton, dross weed-on. send email
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Aug 20, 2020 05:44
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Even something from around the same time as classic DW like Blakes 7, which was around 45-60 minutes per episode, was well-paced enough to allow for world-building, small character moments, etc. I never bothered to watch Buffy, but if RTD was so heavily influenced by it when he brought back DW, then it's probably not something I'd enjoy. The type of quippy remarks I enjoy are the ones where Avon and Vila are sniping at each other on the bridge of the Liberator, or when the Sixth Doctor is arguing with whatever story's main villain. But I wouldn't want an entire episode of nothing but those kinda quips. What if it was an entire episode of Avon and Vila sniping?
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Aug 20, 2020 06:52
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Astroman posted:What if it was an entire episode of Avon and Vila sniping?
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Aug 20, 2020 08:06
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Voting Floater posted:I particularly appreciate the Classic Who stories that properly take advantage of the serial format, like The Chase or The Keys of Marinus where they're a bunch of unique episode-long vignettes linked into an overall plot. The run from Mission To The Unknown to the end of The Daleks Master Plan is insanely good if you think of it in these terms.
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Aug 20, 2020 10:45
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Narsham posted:People forget the technical aspects of quick cuts and edits: it isn’t just a matter of lots of camera setups, editing was much harder before digital video. Classic Who editing either involved film or worse, video tape editing. So the difficulty and expense in having a five-minute scene with dozens of cuts versus the same scene with one continuous shot led to completely different approaches to composing and pacing a scene. I do wonder sometimes if people realise that from 1963 to 1989, all the studio scenes are being done multi-camera on video with an honest-to-God vision mixer up in the gallery editing each take live-to-tape. Particularly in the early 80s with the enormous TARDIS crew, there's so many scenes where nobody can be bothered to hide how they're all just lining up for the fourth wall.
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Aug 20, 2020 15:49
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Jerusalem posted:Another great thing about The War Games is that it's fantastic, which is something more stories should aspire to be. I'm trying to decide if I should tell my SO to watch The War Games with me.... I wonder if she'd be on board for it
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Aug 20, 2020 18:02
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CommonShore posted:I'm trying to decide if I should tell my SO to watch The War Games with me.... I wonder if she'd be on board for it Maybe not a marathon, but over the course of a few days, perhaps?
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Aug 20, 2020 18:25
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War Games is great, but could honestly lose 2-4 episodes.
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Aug 20, 2020 18:31
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I watched The War Games for the first time not long ago and went into it fully aware of how much this thread loves it. I knew the basic premise, that it involved World War I and that the Time Lords show up at the end and that it's supposed to be the best - possibly only decent - use of them. My expectations were sky high for how good this four hours of black-and-white 60s BBC sci-fi was meant to be. And it totally lived up to it and was amazing and the use of the Time Lords was perfect and I loved it. But yeah, maybe a couple too many iterations of the captured, escape, need to go back again, captured again routine. Budget permitting, it would have been nice to have seen more of the different zones.
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Aug 20, 2020 18:46
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The_Doctor posted:War Games is great, but could honestly lose 2-4 episodes. WHAT Who hurt you?
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Aug 20, 2020 18:48
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 18:13 |
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The_Doctor posted:War Games is great, but could honestly lose 2-4 episodes. "My heresies outrage you", indeed
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Aug 20, 2020 21:40
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