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Rotten Red Rod posted:But on the other hand... This is the first explicitly non-binary character in any of Mookie's works. And he apparently just couldn't WAIT to exploit that fact with a bad guy. So nah. No pass for Mookie. This is more my issue with it. It's not having the character, it's making the character non-binary exist solely for cheapo mean points. Just like with the way Mookie treats racism, these issues aren't actually real social problems so much as things he can claim he believes that make him a good person. The people with the identities are secondary. If Mookie had actually made the point of writing this character as non-binary, rather than (I assume) coming up with it as an idea now to score diverstity points and Siggy this mobster dude so that him dying is ok, then that would be different. But as it is it's ehhhh. Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Aug 20, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2020 20:33
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Yeah. For the most part Semme just presents as male. Their non-binaryness is referenced only one more time, in the final issue. And while it's not as offensive as this one, it's real, real dumb. For the record, I'm not an authority on the "correct" way to write a non-binary or trans character. In an ideal world, they would be able to present as whatever gender they feel, and no one would question it, so they would just come off as, well, that gender, and you wouldn't even know otherwise. But that's obviously not representation - if you don't tell anyone about it, they might as well not be trans or non-binary, ala the last attempt Mookie made. But putting a bow on it like this can be bad too, as you're then shoving it in our faces in a way no one would actually do in real life. I'll say this at least, Mookie's attempt here is better than the trans NPC in Mass Effect: Andromeda, who just blurts out that she's trans and deadnames herself casually in the middle of a conversation, because you'd never know otherwise. (By the way, Mookie liked Mass Effect: Andromeda. He thought the characters were well developed. Because of course he did.) Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Aug 20, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2020 20:41
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Yeah. For the most part Semme just presents as male. Their non-binaryness is referenced only one more time, in the final issue. And while it's not as offensive as this one, it's real, real dumb. It's not the worst I've ever seen, but I think the rule of thumb to remember is not to make the character's non-binary nature solely exist as a method to traumatise and oppress them. Maybe the next time is better, but as it is Semme's non-binary status seems to exist only as a way for people to hurt them. It's a grey area and in another work more open to variant sexualities and genders I might not even notice it, but given that this is Starpower's only visible non cishet character, I don't really want to give Mookie a pass. It's like making Szark and Stunt gay, only to have Szark fall straight into weird awful tropes of the predatory homo or have stunt gay because of some sort of horrible Oedipus complex thing, I don't even remember everything going on with that, only that is was bad. If he had other characters that were gay, I might let it pass that he wrote those characters. But as it is....
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Aug 20, 2020 21:03
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If Mookie actually gave a poo poo he could've sought feedback from non-binary people, either friends or people willing to give it a sensitivity read for some compensation. Then he could've learned things about that community and woven it into his story in a natural way. They're not an options available to every writer, but if Mookie's gonna pat himself on the back all day for his "good rep" then I would at least expect him to do the work of getting to know even a little bit about the community he isn't a part of.
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Aug 20, 2020 21:14
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the yeti posted:
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Aug 20, 2020 21:16
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:jo:
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Rotten Red Rod posted:My first instinct was to give that a pass, because sure, bigotry exists and of course someone with an alternative gender identity is gonna run into that. It'd be silly to require all writers to avoid it completely. Yeah, I don't think it is possible or desirable to write out bigotry in all stories, but it's clearly a cheap prop here and there isn't really anything to signify that it's 'bad' because the good guy gangster is doing it.
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Aug 20, 2020 22:02
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Rotten Red Rod posted:My first instinct was to give that a pass, because sure, bigotry exists and of course someone with an alternative gender identity is gonna run into that. It'd be silly to require all writers to avoid it completely. The alterist from Dominic Deegan was Mookie's first textually trans character (and predictably included all the transphobic tropes you'd expect) That's not a failure on your part. If that was supposed to be clear, since it's hard to determine gender presentation for the tall purple alien species, there could've been some dialogue involving Smith that used their pronouns and didn't have to make a whole thing about it. The Little Death posted:It's not the worst I've ever seen, but I think the rule of thumb to remember is not to make the character's non-binary nature solely exist as a method to traumatise and oppress them. Maybe the next time is better, but as it is Semme's non-binary status seems to exist only as a way for people to hurt them. It's a grey area and in another work more open to variant sexualities and genders I might not even notice it, but given that this is Starpower's only visible non cishet character, I don't really want to give Mookie a pass. It's like making Szark and Stunt gay, only to have Szark fall straight into weird awful tropes of the predatory homo or have stunt gay because of some sort of horrible Oedipus complex thing, I don't even remember everything going on with that, only that is was bad. If he had other characters that were gay, I might let it pass that he wrote those characters. But as it is....
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Aug 20, 2020 22:24
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I thought he came out as gay there, in love with bumper? But honestly I don't remember clearly. Maybe it was just Szark
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Aug 20, 2020 23:12
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The Little Death posted:I thought he came out as gay there, in love with bumper? But honestly I don't remember clearly. Maybe it was just Szark Understandable, and it seems like the kind of thing Mookie would do, but no, Stunt and Bumper were never romantically involved. Bumper was killed off, I believe during the Erossus arc, and I think Stunt was the one to avenge him by killing one of Luna's garbage sisters. He then helped Siegfried's ex (Jayna? something like that) find a Luanan relic and I think that was pretty much his last involvement in the comic. Szark (who is gay) was the only textually non-hetero named character in the comic aside from Celesto, but after the Erossus storyline he's never romantically paired with anyone else, so it's moot.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:17
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He's paired with that butler who never speaks.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:20
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When I was in grade school, we had an assignment where we had to write 10 poems. I'm not great at poetry, so I agonized over it - the quality of the poems didn't matter, it was just to teach us how poetry verse worked, counting syllables, rhyming, etc. Still, I HATED the poems I produced, and I was profoundly embarrassed by them, and I was glad the teacher was the only one who had to read them. Now, completely unrelated to my previous statement, I present the Star Power Holiday Special #2:       This is the only Star Power content that was published in December 2019 and January 2020.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:23
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I went back and checked. It was that Stunt's mom was a lesbian and that's was why he thought he murdered her. Honestly reading it again I still don't really get what that backstory was, but yeah it was Stunt's mom being gay I misremembered E: oh my god Mookie, be embarrassed Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Aug 20, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2020 23:26
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I'm a huge nerd who was picked on a lot and after reading those poems I want to give him a swirly.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:40
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Is Old Tom supposed to be a character we know and love?
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Aug 21, 2020 00:04
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I like that all the bosses refer to it as "Live trafficking", no euphemisms or double-talk in case anyone's a snitch or there's a bug somewhere, nope, just "We're selling people, want in?" (Also as opposed to what? Dead trafficking?)
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Aug 21, 2020 00:10
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TheHan posted:Is Old Tom supposed to be a character we know and love? He's the robot Danica met as part of her Star Power quest in chapter 3, who then befriended Beena (and is charged with killing Danica if she ever strays from the path of Love and Compassion, but I'm sure he'll do it very lovingly and compassionately). This guy: 
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Aug 21, 2020 00:16
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Maxwell Lord posted:I like that all the bosses refer to it as "Live trafficking", no euphemisms or double-talk in case anyone's a snitch or there's a bug somewhere, nope, just "We're selling people, want in?" Can’t say human trafficking when humans are a small minority of your setting! But...what would they say? People trafficking? Guy trafficking? poo poo, the script’s due in an hour! That’s how I imagine Mookie's process went down. Then they made all the people being trafficked human anyways. Rotten Red Rod posted:He's the robot Danica met as part of her Star Power quest in chapter 3, who then befriended Beena (and is charged with killing Danica if she ever strays from the path of Love and Compassion, but I'm sure he'll do it very lovingly and compassionately). Oh that's right! Was that interrogation his legit last appearance in the series? TheHan fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Aug 21, 2020 |
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Aug 21, 2020 00:16
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Turns out I was wrong about that, there's some alien slaves in the next chapter. To be fair, human trafficking is the term I was using, Mookie calls it "Life Smuggling" (which is actually in the chapter name).
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Aug 21, 2020 00:18
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Remember Mookie gives talks on how to write heroes and villains. Multiple. And people listen and agree.
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Aug 21, 2020 00:18
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Ague Proof posted:He's paired with that butler who never speaks. I know, which was why I specified named characters. Good recall though. The Little Death posted:I went back and checked. It was that Stunt's mom was a lesbian and that's was why he thought he murdered her. Honestly reading it again I still don't really get what that backstory was, but yeah it was Stunt's mom being gay I misremembered Maxwell Lord posted:I like that all the bosses refer to it as "Live trafficking", no euphemisms or double-talk in case anyone's a snitch or there's a bug somewhere, nope, just "We're selling people, want in?" TheHan posted:Can’t say human trafficking when humans are a small minority of your setting! But...what would they say? People trafficking? Guy trafficking? poo poo, the script’s due in an hour!
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Aug 21, 2020 00:22
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Turns out I was wrong about that, there's some alien slaves in the next chapter. To be fair, human trafficking is the term I was using, Mookie calls it "Life Smuggling" (which is actually in the chapter name). Lol life smuggling is worse, it sounds like what Wookiee Grinch does on Life Day. Though I was referring to why they call it something to generic like “Live Trafficking”. Invisible Clergy posted:Probably just "trafficking" but Maxwell Lord makes a good point, they should be calling it something else since they are being spied on and know they're being spied on because that one galactic cop was a traitor. Or has Mookie already forgotten about that? Nah he’s just not even bothering. It wasn’t pointed out but the corrupt cop gets off a call with his uncorrupt superiors and just outright tells another corrupt cop to stage a murder like it was a clean kill. Bad guys aren’t subtle to Mookie.
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Aug 21, 2020 00:28
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The Little Death posted:I thought he came out as gay there, in love with bumper? But honestly I don't remember clearly. Maybe it was just Szark
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Aug 21, 2020 00:59
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It's easy to miss. Deegan classic is definitely one of those comics that has more to tell upon rereading. Due to the lull in legacy, there's never been a better time for an archive trawl. If there's one thing Mookie's better at than subtlety, it's portraying queer characters.
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Aug 21, 2020 01:58
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I've tried reading through Deegan from the beginning but it just fills me with such shame and embarrassment to do so, and I didn't even make the comic.
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Aug 21, 2020 02:05
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Oh, I was being sarcastic, since Hostile V was being sarcastic. Don't reread deegan. Once is more than enough.
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Aug 21, 2020 02:06
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And I was also being sarcastic when I first suggested someone read through Star Power but HERE WE ARE
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Aug 21, 2020 02:10
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Wait the crime arc is when Star Power got cancelled right? There’s only one issue left? I don’t think I can go back to the Legacy.
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Aug 21, 2020 02:21
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TheHan posted:Wait the crime arc is when Star Power got cancelled right? There’s only one issue left? I don’t think I can go back to the Legacy. Three left, they finished out the full 5 issue arc.
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Aug 21, 2020 02:25
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I really hate that Danica did what she was explicitly and repeatedly told not to do for very good and logical reasons and then everything worked out perfectly fine because we can't have the hero ever be wrong. I also hate this because there's no reason for them to say the names of their families except to try and pass it off as "worldbuilding," but more than that it's just the expository way they're talking. Like them going over their reasons for getting involved in trafficking to try and convince the last family why it's so great could work, if they spoke like they were having a normal conversation.
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Aug 21, 2020 06:30
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Invisible Clergy posted:I know, which was why I specified named characters. Good recall though. His name was Bronto. 
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Aug 21, 2020 09:01
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Invisible Clergy posted:Understandable, and it seems like the kind of thing Mookie would do, but no, Stunt and Bumper were never romantically involved. Bumper was killed off, I believe during the Erossus arc, and I think Stunt was the one to avenge him by killing one of Luna's garbage sisters. He then helped Siegfried's ex (Jayna? something like that) find a Luanan relic and I think that was pretty much his last involvement in the comic. Szark (who is gay) was the only textually non-hetero named character in the comic aside from Celesto, but after the Erossus storyline he's never romantically paired with anyone else, so it's moot. Nah, Bumper got killed off by the Infernomancer or the Maestro, one of 'em, when they were corrupted by the Beast. He got his hands cut off and joined the ministry of silly walks and then he died. I think Bumper was the only named character death on the heroes side.
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Aug 21, 2020 09:03
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Ague Proof posted:His name was Bronto. Pyrotoad posted:Nah, Bumper got killed off by the Infernomancer or the Maestro, one of 'em, when they were corrupted by the Beast. He got his hands cut off and joined the ministry of silly walks and then he died. He was, unless you count (remembered her name) Jayden's 5 minute dirtnap in the desert of Eldariat because your name is Mookie.
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Aug 21, 2020 09:09
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I think I remember the answers to all of these questions? The golem you’re thinking of was Quilt, a flesh golem made by the evil Deegan brother Jacob. For some reason Quilt was just a goofy fun loving guy much like Mookie, so he joined the hero side up until he died in the climax. Maestro was an unfunny early 2000s webcomic character that was a friend of Miranda Deegan. He was a weather wizard who would create wacky situations. I have no idea who Bronto is.
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Aug 21, 2020 11:58
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The Maestro very (in)famously came in to power deadbeat rocker dad deegan's electric guitars. A dumb choice at the time but with the hindsight of Mookie's terminal lack of creativity, one that speaks to his inability to think outside of US culture even in a fantasy setting. Bronto is this dude:  Specifically panel 7 Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Aug 21, 2020 |
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Aug 21, 2020 12:36
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After Star Power, someone should start posting classic Deegan from the beginning.
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Aug 21, 2020 14:26
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please no
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Aug 21, 2020 14:27
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Aug 21, 2020 14:42
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Invisible Clergy posted:the desert of Eldariat
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Aug 21, 2020 14:57
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With a few tweaks this classic edit is as timeless as ever. 
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Aug 21, 2020 15:51
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Dabir posted:please no A full run through no, but goddamn did I find some stinkers I had forgotten about looking for Bronto. Remember Facebath? When greg completed his transformation from quasi-Mookie into full Mookiedom.
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Aug 21, 2020 16:01
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