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Motronic posted:That's an even worse place to use copper then. Because you will smoke some cards you can't get your hands on easily. Need at least 1 Ethernet + 3 phone lines for our old Avaya handsets, and they take 4 pin phone cords so that's at least 3 separate lines. Unless I'm missing something it looks like I'd need to buy 6x media converters + 3x 120 ft fiber patch cables?
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Aug 19, 2020 19:44
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Nevets posted:Need at least 1 Ethernet + 3 phone lines for our old Avaya handsets, and they take 4 pin phone cords so that's at least 3 separate lines. Unless I'm missing something it looks like I'd need to buy 6x media converters + 3x 120 ft fiber patch cables? The non-ethernet runs are going to be a pain in the rear end to pull anyways. Do you know the actual protocol spoken by those phones? Ethernet media converters won't do it for those regardless.
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Aug 19, 2020 19:52
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No idea, the system was installed 15 years ago and predates my employment. I've been bugging them to replace it with a VOIP system for years but 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. I kinda figured it wouldn't work with the media converter. I found a couple combination ethernet + phone system converters on Amazon & Ebay but they all use 2 pin rj-11 jacks so I'd need to hack together adapters and double up on them.
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Aug 19, 2020 20:12
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Nevets posted:No idea, the system was installed 15 years ago and predates my employment. I've been bugging them to replace it with a VOIP system for years but 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. Those are almost certainly pots lines not avaya bullshit. Post the make and model of the phones and pbx. Either way while pulling cable pull 2 pair of smf between the buildings in addition to whatever copper you need. You will thank me later.
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Aug 19, 2020 20:30
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I'm working from home right now so I can't be positive but I'm pretty sure it's a Partner ACS, the handsets are Partner 18D's.
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Aug 19, 2020 20:56
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Nevets posted:I'm working from home right now so I can't be positive but I'm pretty sure it's a Partner ACS, the handsets are Partner 18D's. Ah... the good ol' ACS system. I know this one well, we have several still in service. Partner phones need 2 pairs. 1 pair is regular analog voice. The second pair is digital comms to control the phone. You can carry 2 Partner ACS extensions on a single CAT5/6 run. There are no fiber converters that would work for this far as I know. They are not IP based at all. Extension length limits are officially 1,000ft over twisted pair cabling, though in reality it will go further than that. Avaya used to make a surge protection/ground isolation module specifically for cases like this called an IROB module. (In-range, out of building). With the idea you put one at each end of a out-of-building run. But I'm sure they are not made anymore. Edit: Found the IROB modules... https://www.ebay.com/itm/LUCENT-146D-DUAL-IROB-TELEPHONE-PROTECTOR-CC-407568146-for-PARTNER-PHONES-NIB-/193148730056 You are looking for a Lucent 146D. Each one can protect 2 Partner ACS extensions. stevewm fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 21:51
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stevewm posted:Ah... the good ol' ACS system. I know this one well, we have several still in service. Yep, unfortunate. The only way to maybe pull this off would be some crazy MPLS pseudowire, and even then there's no guarantee. Those IROBs are the accepted solution.
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Aug 19, 2020 22:26
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Thanks guys, thats exactly the kind of info I needed.
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Aug 20, 2020 00:01
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Basically you're going to need one of these but with RJ-11 on the other end for the PBX side: https://etherkiller.org/
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Aug 20, 2020 00:51
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H110Hawk posted:Basically you're going to need one of these but with RJ-11 on the other end for the PBX side: https://etherkiller.org/ memories of "sega killer" fill my head.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:11
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Nevets posted:Thanks guys, thats exactly the kind of info I needed. You can run those 3 extensions with 2 CAT5 pulls. And 4 IROBs. Obviously the IROBs will need to be grounded properly.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:59
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H110Hawk posted:Basically you're going to need one of these but with RJ-11 on the other end for the PBX side: https://etherkiller.org/ You can use a ethernet coupler and put the RJ-11 into the RJ-45 jack. RJ11 fits nicely into the middle.
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Aug 20, 2020 15:15
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I’m going through all the breakers I’ll need o replace in a rewire and now wondering if there’s any reason to not just use DFCI breakers on every circuit instead of trying to plan out which will be AFCI and which GFCI? It’s like a $10 difference per breaker.
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Aug 21, 2020 14:13
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skylined! posted:I’m going through all the breakers I’ll need o replace in a rewire and now wondering if there’s any reason to not just use DFCI breakers on every circuit instead of trying to plan out which will be AFCI and which GFCI? It’s like a $10 difference per breaker. Just just do a+g everywhere. Is that what d means?
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Aug 21, 2020 18:54
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H110Hawk posted:Just just do a+g everywhere. Is that what d means? Yea, DFCI is how I see them represented everywhere online. Though, I can't seem to find anything over 20 amps for my panel.
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Aug 21, 2020 19:03
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You'll have the safest house around. There's generally no code requirement for you to make things "less safe" except for things like fire suppression and sumps that absolutely should not be on GFCIs because it kinda defeats the greater purpose. And yeah you won't find DFCIs greater than 20A. Anything going to a subpanel should be a conventional breaker anyway.
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Aug 21, 2020 19:06
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corgski posted:You'll have the safest house around. There's generally no code requirement for you to make things "less safe" except for things like fire suppression and sumps that absolutely should not be on GFCIs because it kinda defeats the greater purpose. Is there a good way to weed out the older AFCIs that were prone to nuisance tripping when shopping? This is what I am looking at for all 20-amp circuits. I have no experience with any AFCI or GFCI breakers; just reading all the sob stories of nuisance tripping from older AFCIs. quote:And yeah you won't find DFCIs greater than 20A. Anything going to a subpanel should be a conventional breaker anyway. What about 30, 40 or 50 amp breakers going to an appliance in the kitchen? Specifically for code are GFCIs fine?
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Aug 21, 2020 19:11
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skylined! posted:Is there a good way to weed out the older AFCIs that were prone to nuisance tripping when shopping? This is what I am looking at for all 20-amp circuits. If you're buying new you're fine, nothing on the market now is going to be one that will trip without either a wiring fault, "powerline" networking equipment, X10 home automation, or motor loads with bad brushes. Also I have a GE panel and can specifically vouch for those breakers. skylined! posted:What about 30, 40 or 50 amp breakers going to an appliance in the kitchen? Specifically for code are GFCIs fine? You generally don't need GFCI or AFCI protection on branch circuits above 20A - the exception being if your authority has already adopted NEC 2020, in which case GFCI protection only may be required. Relevant sections are 210.8(A) for GFCI requirements and 210.12(A) for AFCI requirements https://www.electricallicenserenewal.com/Electrical-Continuing-Education-Courses/NEC-Content.php?sectionID=808.0 corgski fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Aug 21, 2020 |
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Aug 21, 2020 19:36
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corgski posted:If you're buying new you're fine, nothing on the market now is going to be one that will trip without either a wiring fault, "powerline" networking equipment, X10 home automation, or motor loads with bad brushes. Also I have a GE panel and can specifically vouch for those breakers. Thanks! My local code office told me that if I am permitted before Jan 1 I'll still be under 2017 code, so that should work out. I appreciate your help!
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Aug 22, 2020 14:19
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I thought I knew this answer but I am getting conflicts: Contractor/homeowner recently tossed an extra at me - 4 heaters installed in the ceiling of this outdoor all-season veranda. 12ft ceilings, 775 sq ft. They have procured 4 Infratech WD6024 heaters and the switches that come with them. These heaters are 6000 watts each, 240v. The Infratech guy told me on the phone to use #10's, 2-pole 20 breakers. That math does not add up in my head. Shouldn't it be #8s and a 2-pole 30? Panel is lets say 100 ft away. Has anyone put these in before? Do I go with my math or what the rep said?
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Aug 23, 2020 15:23
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6000w on 240V is 25A. 30A breakers are definitely required. Your math is correct, they're morons. A 100' run with 25A load can run on #10, I calculate 2.1% Vdrop.
sharkytm fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Aug 23, 2020 |
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Aug 23, 2020 16:19
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2.1% aint bad. I'd hat to have to try to wire these, essentially decorative double switches with #8.
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Aug 23, 2020 17:37
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20-some pages ago y'all helped me with my bath fan and I wanted to drop thanks again. I leaned that the contractors saved $20 by not installing a vent to the outside (literally 7 feet away) and that the load I left unconnected actually powered the lights in the guest bathroom, which is... uh... quite the run! Yesterday I replaced the backyard receptacles, adding newer WR GFCI's and weatherboxes to 'em. Kind of good since the older "metal covers on a regular plug" seemed dangerous. Guess I was right since the receptacle pulled right out if the box and left a hanging black out of the backstab. Also, did you know you can turn a regular switch into a 3-pole which then feeds two other lights? Just plug the return black into the Ground Screw, and double-up the reds on the backstab! 
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Aug 23, 2020 20:44
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Ferrule posted:They have procured 4 Infratech WD6024 heaters and the switches that come with them. These heaters are 6000 watts each, 240v. Homeowner knows those things cost $5/hr to run at full bore right? (6kw * 4 * $0.20/kwh)  As I recall you're up in Simi/1kOaks area so I'm assuming your power costs what mine does. Surprised they aren't going large tank propane or nat gas.
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Aug 23, 2020 20:53
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H110Hawk posted:Homeowner knows those things cost $5/hr to run at full bore right? (6kw * 4 * $0.20/kwh) I'm in the midwest. I have no idea if the homeowner knows what this is going to to do to his monthly bill. Homeowner does, however, know what their neighbor has (pool, hot tub, in-ground lights, veranda, porch, gazebo, etc, etc) and wants that+ better. It is such a case of the Jones...
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Aug 24, 2020 01:06
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Ferrule posted:I'm in the midwest. Ah, I was remembering the sticker from the outdoor lighting controller. Sounds like the homeowner wants #8 wire as well because I hear their neighbor cheaped out on #10 and can never upgrade.
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Aug 24, 2020 01:44
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Is it worth it to do a LV switch to a relay somewhere to switch those, or is that a pain under code? ~100 mA of 24 VDC to fire some cheap (relatively) 50 A relays seems nicer than running a shitload of 8 / 10 AWG cable...
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Aug 24, 2020 08:29
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H110Hawk posted:Ah, I was remembering the sticker from the outdoor lighting controller. Sounds like the homeowner wants #8 wire as well because I hear their neighbor cheaped out on #10 and can never upgrade. I'm not pulling 12 #8s through the basement finished ceiling.. gently caress that noise.
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Aug 24, 2020 13:40
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Weird house wiring situation, hoping for some guidance. We've had this house 10 years. It has 1958 wiring throughout, with some upgrades here and there - added lights, vent hood, GFCI outlets, etc. I've seen most of the wiring in the house and have done some fixes myself, such as adding a junction box where there was an exposed junction in the attic. On Friday we suddenly started getting a low voltage condition. I have my computer on a UPS so I could see that the line in voltage had dropped to below 90v. It moved around between 85v and 120v, mostly sticking below 90v. After a couple of hours it went away. Of course that was just before PG&E showed up. The PG&E worker looked at my panel. There is some old scorching on one of the two hot lines in - this was arcing and causing a problem about 8 years ago, but after tightening that connection the arcing problem had gone away. He suggested that could still be the source of the issue - he pulled the smartmeter (we have no main breaker) and swapped it, and while it was out I checked but the connection that had been arcing was still very tight. He also inspected at the pole and didn't find a problem. I also talked to my neighbor yesterday, he is having his house rewired, new drop etc., but he hasn't seen any voltage issues and they haven't hooked up his new drop yet so as of right now nothing connecting to the pole has been touched. Since then it's happened again twice - saturday night the A/C suddenly went wonky and sounded weird so I turned it off, things were fine saturday morning, no problems yesterday, and then at about 9:40 this morning suddenly the voltage dropped again. This time I went out and looked at the meter was reading between 195 and 205 volts. I flipped all the breakers on one leg, then the other, then both, and then all back on. In each case the meter voltage stayed about the same, hovering around 200 volts. What I want to know is: does this indicate the problem is not in my panel or downstream of it? With all breakers turned off, if I was getting 240v at the drop, shouldn't PG&E's meter read 240v? Or is it still possible that there's an issue in the panel that is causing a voltage drop? I suppose there could be some kind of high-resistance short between one or both of the hots and the neutral, in the box, that could cause a voltage drop, but not flip any breakers? Side thing: my neighborhood is supposedly under power cut order due to the wildfires and california's power issues, but as of right now my power is still on. e. I have a cheapo multimeter but I'm scared to go poking probes into my breaker box, I might gently caress up and kill myself? e2. It occurs to me that if I have ~85v on the outlet in my office but the meter is reading ~200v, it's likely that I have ~115v on one set of circuits and 85 on the other... so that again suggests that the one hot leg that had problems before is having problems again, irrsepctive of whether or not the breakers are flipped and there's no load? Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 18:36
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If the utility meter display is actually giving you a live voltage reading, then I'd say you have a utility side issue. I've never seen one personally that does this, but it's certainly possible. Ours read and store regular voltage readings, and "out of range" events, but none of that is viewable on the display. Your utility may be able to see that the voltage is bad remotely and verify that it's their issue.
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Aug 24, 2020 19:01
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It's a live display which cycles through voltage, meter, and a couple of other settings. Here you can see two photos from about 30 seconds apart. I was looking to see if the voltage returned to normal after I threw all the breaker switches to off   When I called the first time, the person on the phone was only able to summon a worker to my house, but they weren't a technical person. My power went back to normal by itself at 11. Next time it happens I'll try calling again to see if they can read it live, but the guy who came to my house said these meters don't store a log that has voltage.
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Aug 24, 2020 20:37
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Show them these pictures. If the meter outputs out of range Vrms readings while your breakers are all off they should act. Take a close up and wide angle shot with the breakers all obviously off. This can damage your motor loads being so low, including requiring replacement of your a start run capacitor. Read the plate on the side of your ac to see the acceptable voltages. Buy a meter you aren't afraid of exploding, but I still don't stick mine on the utility side because it's not a rated fluke.
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Aug 24, 2020 20:48
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OK I did take this photo at the time (in between the two photos above) but it's back to normal now. Next time it happens I'll do that.  Dunno if PG&E has the ability for me to like, email photos to them but if someone actually comes to the house I can show them.
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Aug 24, 2020 20:53
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There's a bad connection on the utility side somewhere. Could even be the jaws where the meter stabs in to, those can be tricky to find.
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Aug 24, 2020 23:08
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Yeah, if no one else is seeing it it could be the connection at the weather head I guess, it's weird that it's not lowering with specific loads, i.e. every time the AC comes on the voltage kicks down. I kinda suspect that it is happening to your neighbors, and they're just not noticing. E: if voltage is lower with all your breakers off, it is almost certainly transformer or upstream distribution level, you could have the worst, most corroded meter stabs and weather head connections, and they'll read 240V with 0 load on them. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Aug 25, 2020 |
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Aug 25, 2020 01:46
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Elviscat posted:. Usually this is correct, but I've seen bad enough connections that it still lowers the voltage with zero load. Most commonly this happens with a bad underground conductor, where a bad spot in the wire has turned into aluminum oxide (or whatever it is). I had a meter stab socket build up a layer of corrosion between it and the aluminum block/bus it was bolted to, despite looking almost completely normal - not burnt up like you would expect. You would read full nominal voltage on the bus and zero on the stab socket with the meter removed. Obviously you got a weird voltage there with the meter installed, reading though motor windings/coils in the residence. That one took me a minute.
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Aug 25, 2020 02:05
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I can believe it, after I discovered the ground fault to 23kV that was shocking my customer through her faucet. Or the Chlorine generating plant that was working occasionally when the cupric oxide was at a high enough concentration to conduct current. I just think Occam dictates OP is on a hosed up Service and their neighbors are dumb.
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Aug 25, 2020 05:56
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Elviscat posted:I kinda suspect that it is happening to your neighbors, and they're just not noticing. IMO this is something maybe worth checking, if the meters display voltage then do you have any neighbors where you could get to their meters without having to do anything questionable? If so, then when yours is going wonky take a peek at theirs too and see what it says. Whether or not they're also affected will give you a pretty strong idea about where the problem is.
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Aug 25, 2020 15:22
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I have a new dust collector I'm looking to hook up in my garage. The dust collector has the following power requirements: Full-load amp draw 110v - 18.8amps 220v - 9.4amps The manual recommends a minimum 30amp circuit for 110v usage. I have a dedicated 20amp circuit running on 14/2 romex in my garage (I asked the electrician why he used 14ga and not 12ga during installation and he said it's fine for 20amps which I didn't really like, but didn't press at the time). Would there be any issues with swapping out the circuit breaker to a two-pole breaker, and swapping the outlet to a 220v outlet running over the existing 14/2 wiring for this setup so I can run the dust collector in 220v?
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Aug 25, 2020 20:41
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Well we haven't had the low voltage recur yet. And yesterday, this was going on on my street: PG&E was showing a very localized outage (~55 customers) for most of the day, even though we never lost power. I am going to wait and see if we get another voltage drop; it could be that they've just fixed whatever was wrong.
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Aug 25, 2020 20:43
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